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There Go the Neighborhoods
City Journal ^ | 2 July 2008 | Heather Mac Donald

Posted on 07/05/2008 7:48:50 PM PDT by Lorianne

Even million-dollar housing vouchers bring crime to the suburbs. ___ What if Section 8 housing voucher recipients were given $15 million vouchers, good for use in Malibu or Beverly Hills? The only question would be whether it would take a full five seconds for elite support for this federal housing program—which provides welfare families with a monthly rental check to move from ghettos to more stable working-class neighborhoods—to evaporate.

The gorgeous sea-and-mountain community of Topanga Canyon, just south of Malibu, may have gotten a little taste of what such an experiment in serious social engineering might look like. In 2000, Los Angeles paid $15 million to Javier Francisco Ovando, a Honduran illegal immigrant and member of the 18th Street gang, in compensation for his victimization at the hands of two corrupt Los Angeles police officers four years earlier. The Ovando case was at the heart of the Rampart scandal, in which a cadre of gang cops from the LAPD’s Rampart Division abused, stole from, and framed drug dealers. Two of those officers shot the unarmed Ovando during a drug investigation, paralyzing him. They then planted a gun on him and persuaded a court that he had fired his gun first, resulting in Ovando’s imprisonment for two and a half years until the truth came to light.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Government
KEYWORDS: govwatch; section8; welfare

1 posted on 07/05/2008 7:48:50 PM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne

section 8’s a government socialist scam.

i didn’t know what it was until i moved into an apartment that had some section 8’s.

i learned fast. they were always begging rides and favors.

then, it seemed that the apartment management favored the section 8’s over the other residents who paid more rent.

correct. the management said that the government paid the apartment owner MORE money for the section 8’s than what non-section 8’s paid.

so, the owner wanted more section 8’s.

i moved out.


2 posted on 07/05/2008 7:53:33 PM PDT by ken21 ( people die + you never hear from them again.)
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To: ken21

I view forced subsidized housing as a ploy by the liberals to take over conservative voting blocks in suburbs, etc.


3 posted on 07/05/2008 7:56:12 PM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: Lijahsbubbe

yo probably right.

they all vote democrat, i noticed.

they sit around all day watching tv.


4 posted on 07/05/2008 7:57:38 PM PDT by ken21 ( people die + you never hear from them again.)
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To: ken21

Another nail in our coffin, put there by Congressional Democrats.


5 posted on 07/05/2008 7:57:48 PM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: Lorianne
Section 8 can ruin nice community's. East New Orleans is a prime example.
6 posted on 07/05/2008 8:02:19 PM PDT by BBell
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To: ken21
One of my acquaintances who's mother works for the local Section 8 here put her daughter on the program. Her daughter is single, no children, stays home and collects disability based on her mom's connections to other state/government agencies.

It is a scam and nobody gets involved to clean it up because of fear of being labeled racist since majority of the recipients are minorities.

Time for me to go to bed since I am working tomorrow so my taxes can continue funding these programs.
7 posted on 07/05/2008 8:09:01 PM PDT by FORTRUTHONLY (Easy as 3.14159265358979323846...)
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To: Lorianne; Behind Liberal Lines

I seem to remember that a certain freeper from Ithaca once wrote a song about Section 8 to the tune of “Yesterday.”


8 posted on 07/05/2008 8:11:46 PM PDT by Clemenza (You Shoot Me in a Dream, You Better Wake Up and Apologize)
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To: ken21

A poster here once gave a tip with respect to apartment hunting. He or she recommended casing prospective apartment communities during the weekdays to judge how many cars were sitting in the parking lots. An apartment community full of cars at 10:00 or 11:00 a.m. on weekday mornings would probably not be a good sign.


9 posted on 07/05/2008 8:12:40 PM PDT by Cecily
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To: Lorianne

I thought a Section 8 was a crazy person.


10 posted on 07/05/2008 8:16:25 PM PDT by Linden1209
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To: Cecily

good tip!

just i noticed driving thru’ moreno valley during the day—

lots of young men, 20’s-30’s, walking around the streets with do

rags and mexican gang stuff,

with their girl friends pushing baby carriages.

not a good sign.


11 posted on 07/05/2008 8:21:15 PM PDT by ken21 ( people die + you never hear from them again.)
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To: ken21

No offense, but is there ANYWHERE in the Inland Empire that is livable these days?


12 posted on 07/05/2008 8:34:46 PM PDT by Clemenza (You Shoot Me in a Dream, You Better Wake Up and Apologize)
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To: Cecily

Too much work. If you see an ad in the paper that shows an apartment for rent, just call the number and ask” yo my man, is the space still fo rent?” If they say yes, you do not want to live there. If they say no, go take a look.


13 posted on 07/05/2008 8:35:22 PM PDT by shaft29 (Just your typical black woman.)
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To: Cecily

I also looked at the year of the cars in the parking lot when I was interested in a complex. They have a great site now, www.apartmentratings.com that is very helpful when searching apartments in your area.


14 posted on 07/05/2008 8:41:40 PM PDT by peggybac (Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing)
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To: ken21

There is an article this month about this in Atlantic Monthly I think. Apparently the Memphis police were stunned when crime suddenly jumped in previously low crime areas. Just so happened that the Chief of Police is married to a professor of urban planning at the university. One day she put an overlay of neighborhoods where the city had moved Section 8 people to get them out of the hood onto a map that had the crime pockets marked. Perfect match.

When you go house hunting, look for a place where there is no vacant land nearby for the politicians to do their social engineering.


15 posted on 07/05/2008 8:45:27 PM PDT by freespirited (Never vote for a man who gets his nails done.)
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To: shaft29
Too much work. If you see an ad in the paper that shows an apartment for rent, just call the number and ask” yo my man, is the space still fo rent?” If they say yes, you do not want to live there. If they say no, go take a look.

;^)

16 posted on 07/05/2008 8:50:49 PM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: Clemenza
No offense, but is there ANYWHERE in the Inland Empire that is livable these days?

I think within a decade, most of the populations of Compton and East L.A. will have exchanged places with everyone now living in the Inland Empire who can afford to sell out.

The same pattern will occur in many other places. In Arizona, the ticky-tacky tract homes way out in Queen Creek and Peoria will soon be filled with gang-bangers, while the tougher parts of central and south Phoenix will continue gentrifying. I think the light-rail white elephant might even make a go of it.

-ccm

17 posted on 07/05/2008 9:01:03 PM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: Disambiguator

I’ll happily have Ward Connerly as a neighbor. Trash of any color is not what I want in my neighborhood. I consider Rosie O’Donnel trash as well.


18 posted on 07/05/2008 9:04:46 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: BBell
Section 8 can ruin nice community's. East New Orleans is a prime example.

Tampa's not far behind.
19 posted on 07/05/2008 9:10:30 PM PDT by WackySam (The Constitution is not an a la carte menu.)
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To: Disambiguator

No, just trying to pass on a short cut because of the high cost of gasoline. Why visit when you can find out by phone?


20 posted on 07/05/2008 9:12:32 PM PDT by shaft29 (Just your typical black woman.)
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To: shaft29

I know. I was just being tongue-in-cheeky.


21 posted on 07/05/2008 9:21:10 PM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: ken21
I'm in an area where there is a lot of Section 8 housing. Some of the landlords really go for that, because they will get a lot more money in rent than a regular working stiff in the private sector can afford to pay.

However, from what I've heard, they soon find out that they're not necessarily making a bigger profit, because many of the Section 8 tenants basically trash the apartments before they move somewhere else.

My landlord is someone who resisted the lure of Section 8 tenants for just those reasons.

22 posted on 07/05/2008 9:40:13 PM PDT by pbmaltzman
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To: ken21

You can take people out of the slum but you cannot usually take the slum out of people.


23 posted on 07/05/2008 10:46:50 PM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: Lorianne

Anyone renting out any of their property needs to do their research before they rent through a property management company. My brother-in-law put his house up for rent a few years ago and used a property management company. They accepted a Section 8 tenant without informing him. Two months later, no rent had ever been paid, and she trashed the house and sold everything she could find (like mirrors that had been attached to the walls.) There was evidence of drug use all over the place. The monthly rent was not cheap, and it was in a slightly more upscale neighborhood.


24 posted on 07/05/2008 11:00:25 PM PDT by conservative cat
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To: ccmay

I’m seeing a similar thing happen in Detroit. Growth is occuring in the center, while the inner rim suburbs seem to be collecting the rot.


25 posted on 07/05/2008 11:18:08 PM PDT by John Will
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To: John Will; ccmay

Been going on in NYC for 15-20 years now. All of Manhattan, and the inner nabes of Brooklyn, Queens, and Jersey City have been gentrifying, while the outer satellite cities (Yonkers, Mt. Vernon) decline.


26 posted on 07/05/2008 11:20:11 PM PDT by Clemenza (You Shoot Me in a Dream, You Better Wake Up and Apologize)
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To: Skywalk
If you see an ad in the paper that shows an apartment for rent, just call the number and ask ” yo my man, is the space still fo rent?” If they say yes, you do not want to live there. If they say no, go take a look.

LOL!

27 posted on 07/05/2008 11:37:10 PM PDT by radiohead (Please donate to the African-American Museum of Iowa, which lost all 1000 books in the flood.)
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To: Lorianne

Read the Atlantic Monthly article where they illustrate the rise of crime in smaller cities and Section-8 housing.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/memphis-crime

An American Murder Mystery -
Why is crime rising in so many American cities? The answer implicates one of the most celebrated antipoverty programs of recent decades.


28 posted on 07/05/2008 11:45:06 PM PDT by Slow Lane (Nill Illigitimi Carborundum)
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To: Slow Lane

Thanks for the link on that.

Here’s the FR thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2034891/posts

My FIL has a pile of small rental houses. He absolutely will not take Section 8. He’s a smart man.


29 posted on 07/06/2008 3:38:51 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (<===Non-bitter, Gun-totin', Typical White American)
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To: Lorianne

Honduran illegal immigrant huh? That’s easy to fix, just move Joe Horn in next door!


30 posted on 07/06/2008 3:41:57 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (This election is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if McCain wins, we're still retarded.)
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To: Clemenza

no offence taken. yes there are nice places all over. always on the mountains.

you just have to know where.

temecula’s very nice. rich wine producers east of the city. the mountains above the city are nice. from temecula to warner springs will stay nice. 500,000-million dollar homes. (altho’ prices may be down now.)

hemet no. lots of new growth, but commuters. in the long run a disaster in the making. as i said, no new freeways. state dumps their sex felons there. meth production. imo.

a friend of mine just moved between murrieta and lake elsinore. lots of new 4,000 sq ft homes. those are large lots. it’ll stay nice for a few decades. good freeway access when the i-15 and i-215 aren’t parking lots.

i live in the coachella valley. about 400,000 people. the wealth here is staggering.

miles and miles and miles of gated country clubs and gated communities with million dollar homes. there are so many golf courses that the low desert now has a mosquito problemo. si.

rich people and snow birds come here to play golf and die. president ford died here.

the rich have their employees. and there are gangs in those areas where they live.

in addition to the rich there’s the indian tribes and their casinos and entertainment. it’s a small las vegas. lots of prostitutes. crooked cops. lots of money.


31 posted on 07/06/2008 6:13:46 AM PDT by ken21 ( people die + you never hear from them again.)
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To: pbmaltzman

true.

holes in the walls.

i don’t get it.


32 posted on 07/06/2008 6:16:21 AM PDT by ken21 ( people die + you never hear from them again.)
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To: shaft29
If they say no, go take a look.

If they say no then that space is not for rent.

There are a number of groups that do nothing but make calls like that in the hope of catching someone discriminating. They have been doing it for several years so Landlords are wise to this tactic and rely on other ways to not rent to those they would prefer not to.

33 posted on 07/06/2008 6:22:43 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (A good marriage is like a casserole, only those responsible for it really know what goes into it.)
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To: ken21

Let me see if I remember the math.

The section eight recipient pay 25% of their income, less utilities. Yes, the government pays some people to live in apartments or homes that accept vouchers.

It’s all a socialistic tool to spread the wealth, and in return, honest, tax paying citizens get all the joys of gangs, drugs, and general stupidity.

Remember, also, that once these new residents move in, their children attend schools that are primarily run on local property taxes. So if you pay $8,000.00 in property taxes and live in a good school district, and there is an apartment complex in the school district accepting these vouchers, guess who is attending school with your children.

Diversity, man, that’s what it’s all about.


34 posted on 07/06/2008 6:46:46 AM PDT by FReepapalooza (Joshua 3:4 ..."for ye have not passed this way heretofore.")
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To: Clemenza

Twasn’t me.


35 posted on 07/06/2008 6:23:38 PM PDT by Behind Liberal Lines
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To: Cecily
An apartment community full of cars at 10:00 or 11:00 a.m. on weekday mornings would probably not be a good sign.

Perhaps, and perhaps not... Many people don't work the traditional "9 to 5" these days. I work from 3-11:30 PM, myself, so my car would be in the parking lot at 10-11:00 AM...

the infowarrior

36 posted on 07/06/2008 8:17:29 PM PDT by infowarrior
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