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Pro-Homosexual Denominations Lose Numbers
Magic City Morning Star ^ | Grant Swank

Posted on 07/09/2008 4:32:10 AM PDT by johnstown

The Episcopal Church has been at the forefront of baptizing active homosexual lifestyle as God-blessed.

Since 1960, that denomination has decreased in membership by 48%.

The United Methodist Church has been roiled by those adamant on establishing homosexual lifestyles as Christian legitimate. In the fight for one side or another that denomination has decreased in membership by 25%.

The Presbyterian Church (USA) has likewise been embroiled in the tussle. That denomination has decreased in membership by 44%.

The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) has also been riddled with in-house fighting over homosexual lifestyles as anti-God or pro-God. That denomination's membership has decreased 74%.

The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America has permitted the fight to be more open, some in administration arguing homosexual lifestyles as okay with God. That denomination's membership has decreased by 31%.

The United Church of Christ (Congregational) has defended aggressively homosexual activity as totally legitimate in the definition of "Christian." In the last 40 years, that denomination has lost 40% of its original membership.

By contrast, denominations preaching the Bible as divine revelation, openly stating their love for homosexuals but their disdain for homosexual activity, have grown in membership and church attendance.

For instance, the Southern Baptist Convention has increased in membership by 76% according to the National Council of Churches statistics for 2007.

Read James L. Clark's "The Church Homosexual Problem" at http://www.postchronicle.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=75&num=153523


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: ecusa; elca; homosexual; homosexualagenda; pcusa; religiousleft; sbc; schism; ucc; umc
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1 posted on 07/09/2008 4:32:11 AM PDT by johnstown
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To: johnstown

Is it possible that the Anglicans and Episcopalians don’t CARE if they shrink? Some of these denominations have large endowments from generous bequests from religious widows from a bygone era when the denominations seemed to mean something. But if the congregations shrink, the money can go even farther for salaries and special projects.


2 posted on 07/09/2008 4:35:47 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics)
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To: johnstown

Maybe homosexuals are a little hazy on the concept.


3 posted on 07/09/2008 4:37:41 AM PDT by Thrownatbirth (.....Iraq Invasion fan since '91.)
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To: johnstown

“Pro-Homosexual Denominations Lose Numbers”

Yes, but their “moral superiority” to the rest of us makes them they gain so much MORE than can be counted in mere membership numbers.


4 posted on 07/09/2008 4:40:54 AM PDT by WayneS (Sarcasm Alert!!! (for the thick-headed))
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To: WayneS

Hmmmmm. Pronoun trouble.

Should have read: “...makes them gain...”

Sorry.


5 posted on 07/09/2008 4:41:59 AM PDT by WayneS (Sarcasm Alert!!! (for the thick-headed))
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To: johnstown
This article is far too vague with its statistics.

The question is what were the numbers for each denomination before they decided to reject Scriptural teaching on homosexuality and what are their numbers now?

In the case of the SBC, the reported increase seems arbitrary. The SBC has grown 76% since 1962.

I don't think the ECUSA, UMC, PCUSA, DOC, ELCA or UCC have been teaching these doctrines since 1962.

Especially since the UMC has only existed since 1968, the PCUSA since 1983, and ELCA since 1988.

6 posted on 07/09/2008 4:45:53 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: Dr. Sivana

Losing almost 50% of your membership is stunning—even as the US population has doubled. Even GM isn’t doing that badly. In most organizations, that would trigger some soul searching. However, you are probably right—they don’t care. As long as those who remain share their “values”, they won’t ask where all the people went. They will also be content as long as the MSM refers to them as “traditional, mainstream churches”—long after they’ve become stark-raving, new-age looney bins.


7 posted on 07/09/2008 4:46:35 AM PDT by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: rbg81

They don’t seem to care. Why should they? They don’t have any real sense of answering morally at the Judgment Seat of Christ for anything personal or church-wise.


8 posted on 07/09/2008 4:48:50 AM PDT by johnstown
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To: Dr. Sivana

It seems these constituents are lazy about their religion—just let happen what happens. Not all of the constituents are like that, but it appears that many are. The really sensitive Christians in their number often have moved out to worship elsewhere where the Bible is preached and lived out.


9 posted on 07/09/2008 4:51:06 AM PDT by johnstown
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To: WayneS

oh, the ‘moral superiority’!


10 posted on 07/09/2008 4:52:10 AM PDT by johnstown
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To: sionnsar; Huber

Episcopalians going down the tubes ping


11 posted on 07/09/2008 4:56:37 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 ("Facts are stubborn things." –Ronald Reagan)
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To: johnstown
"Beware of false prophets who come to you disguised as sheep but underneath are ravenous wolves. You will be able to tell them by their fruits."

Not very PC, but it sums it up pretty well...

12 posted on 07/09/2008 5:05:18 AM PDT by Reo
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To: Reo

Yes.

Jesus gave His disciples permission to analyze others’ fruit—some good, some bad.

We cannot judge a soul to heaven or hell. That is God’s doing.

But Jesus did give His grace children permission to analyze others’ fruit.


13 posted on 07/09/2008 5:19:13 AM PDT by johnstown
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To: johnstown

The lesson here is, when a church loses it’s focus on Christ and the Bible it is headed into the dumpster...


14 posted on 07/09/2008 5:26:22 AM PDT by Gritty (Would you condemn me to justify yourself? - God to Job, Job 41:8)
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To: rbg81

Having been inside PCUSA as a church Elder I can tell you they do care. They just don’t understand why and refuse to open their eyes. The problems that I saw. 1) A high % of the members are elderly and are dying, thus reducing your membership. 2) The old folks also tend to resist changes to make church more attractive to a younger generation. 3) the older folks also don’t want to spend money on things that younger couples need, like childrens programs. My Church spent $3500 in emergency funding to re-upholster some pews because they were too hard but would not spend $300 for childrens bibles.

They are happy because things are the same for them. One really rich lady said “you will grow this church over my dead body”. They needed her money so she got her way.

They don’t see the radicals who have entered the church leadership and are pushing the liberal agenda. Many of those that do think the reason they aren’t growing is because they haven’t accepted the liberal agenda.

Its sad because there were many great God loving people in that church. The church I’m at now has its problems but is growing like gangbusters. I think its because it remains God focused.


15 posted on 07/09/2008 5:28:33 AM PDT by driftdiver
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To: johnstown

Here’s my morning Barf story!


16 posted on 07/09/2008 5:32:09 AM PDT by MeekMom (Bulls got 1st pick! Yahooo!!!)
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To: johnstown

God commands us to leave Sodom and Gomorrah and not to look back.


17 posted on 07/09/2008 5:37:34 AM PDT by reg45
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To: johnstown
We cannot judge a soul to heaven or hell. That is God’s doing.

In a theological sense, you have contradicted yourself.

Man is only denied the power to condemn.

They have denied Genesis, which is the most important part of the Bible.

18 posted on 07/09/2008 5:41:32 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: johnstown
...openly stating their love for homosexuals but their disdain for homosexual activity...

A pretty neat trick. "We love you...now get the hell away from me."

19 posted on 07/09/2008 5:44:50 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: johnstown

I was raised a Methodist, but there’s no way I’d support them today, mainly because they are gun grabbers.


20 posted on 07/09/2008 5:44:53 AM PDT by elmer fudd (Fukoku kyohei)
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To: wideawake

“I don’t think the ECUSA, UMC, PCUSA, DOC, ELCA or UCC have been teaching these doctrines since 1962.”

....I expect that 1962 was chosen as a starting point because it was roughly the start of the Civil Rights era...that was the beginning of social activism with the northern Presbyterian church...after the merger in ‘83 the old southern church came on board too....although many congregations pulled out....Presbyterians have gone from civil rights, to anti-war, to no nukes, to Sandinistas, to abortion, to diversity celebration, to economic “justice” to gay rights...losing membership all along the way...next up: global warming....the Left has captured the church the same as it captured the Academy.

.....and I can tell you the money is shrinking right along with the membership rolls...what’s growing is membership fatigue....fewer members to serve on committees, sing in the choir, give rides to the elderly....even simple things like getting 6 pall bearers for a funeral....I first began to sense something was going bad over 30 years ago when they revised the Hymnal and purged “Onward Christian Soldiers”....it’s only gotten worse since....I’m glad my grandfathers were not alive to see this.


21 posted on 07/09/2008 5:49:47 AM PDT by STONEWALLS
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To: Non-Sequitur
A pretty neat trick. "We love you...now get the hell away from me."

How should a parent relate to a beloved child who is engaged in self-destructive activity?

Should the parent applaud and reinforce the self-destructive behavior? Would that be love?

22 posted on 07/09/2008 5:53:25 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: wideawake
How should a parent relate to a beloved child who is engaged in self-destructive activity?

Apparently by telling them that they're going to hell and cutting them off.

23 posted on 07/09/2008 5:58:35 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: driftdiver

Post 15 is spot on.

We left the UCC church in Maine for similar reasons.
We had an interim pastor (from the PCUSA) who drove our attendance from 110 to 35 (average for Sundays)

And of course our former UCC church is very PC.


24 posted on 07/09/2008 6:00:06 AM PDT by Maine Mariner
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To: johnstown

It also could be purposeful.

When you step back to the bigger conflict, the whole homo movement is about destroying the traditional values and the traditional family of the Western Culture.

Destruction of a few denominations of the church is a huge victory.

Also, a general comment -
it’s not just pro-SSAD (same sex attraction disorder) churches losing members,
it’s all the churches that require less of the members that are losing numbers, while those that require stricter adherence are gaining.


25 posted on 07/09/2008 6:03:18 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Reo

That’s just hilarious. You have to know that God has a sense of humor.


26 posted on 07/09/2008 6:04:23 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Dr. Sivana
You must also remember that in many cities, especially in the Northeast and Upper Midwest, the dying denominations own lots of valuable real estate in upscale neighborhoods. The old Robber Baron era trusts have faded as a source of income, but the old churches are a source of future funding for the leftist agenda of headquarters. With the exception of the United Church of Christ, the church properties are not owned by the congregation, but by the diocese, presbytery, or local conference. There are historic preservation issues to deal with, but the landmark designation is assigned to the church building and not the rest of the property. The church can be converted into a restaurant or bar; condos, apartments, and office space can be built on the non-historic buildings where adult fellowship, church offices, and children's programs were once run.

The liquidation of old mainline Protestant churches in affluent neighborhoods will accelerate in the near future as the members die off and the remnant, if any, is merged with another congregation or parish. This source of funds will fuel the apostate denominations in the 2010s and 2020s.

27 posted on 07/09/2008 6:05:05 AM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: Non-Sequitur
Apparently by telling them that they're going to hell and cutting them off.

Your characterization is not reflected by any doctrinal statement from any conservative denomination that I am aware of.

28 posted on 07/09/2008 6:05:37 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: johnstown; AFA-Michigan; Abathar; Agitate; AliVeritas; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; BabaOreally; Balke; ..
Homosexual Agenda Ping

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the homosexual agenda ping list.

Be sure to click the FreeRepublic homosexual agenda keyword search link for a list of all related articles. We don't ping you to all related articles so be sure to click the previous link to see the latest articles.

Add keywords homosexual agenda to flag FR articles to this ping list.

29 posted on 07/09/2008 6:06:38 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Wow, that’s quite a distorted view, but I think you’re just covering for something else.

Most anti-theists have some deep seated reason for being that way but cover it up with some strange, often “reason based”, excuse for rejecting theological truths that would be available to an open mind.

If you’re honest, do a “thought experiment” like Einstein, and ask yourself what you’d have to give up in your life if you chose to follow Christ. Then you’ll understand your own resistance more.


30 posted on 07/09/2008 6:10:07 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: wideawake
Your characterization is not reflected by any doctrinal statement from any conservative denomination that I am aware of.

The article makes it clear that churches who welcome homosexuals inthe congregation seem to be shrinking in membership while those who do not seem to be growing. What constitutes 'not welcoming' would seem to be clear to me, but apparently there may be more to this than meets the eye. So enlighten me on how the doctrine of the conservative churches deal with homosexuality.

31 posted on 07/09/2008 6:16:22 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: johnstown
My family and I visited a United Methodist Church in downtown Austin about a year ago to attend a funeral of a friend who went there. She committed suicide, BTW.

While we were there, we noticed that few members were wearing a strange looking symbol on they're clothes.

My wife asked one of the ushers what that was about. He said that they were an "open" congregation and that those people were "gay."

Not only does the UMC accept homosexuals, they openly promote it!

32 posted on 07/09/2008 6:26:21 AM PDT by Tolkien (Grace is the Essence of the Gospel; Gratitude is the Essence of Ethics.)
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To: Wallace T.

...”the church properties are not owned by the congregation, but by the diocese, presbytery...”

.....yes exactly...Presbytery not only owns the church but also the minister’s retirement fund and shares of stock that were given....I’m happy to report that rebellion is underway however in both PA and MO where congregations have gone to court to pull out and take their assets with them...same with several Episcopalian parishes in northern VA....gay marriage was the last straw for them.

...... Protestant denominations split in the 1850s over slavery...this time the tipping point appears to be homosexuality.


33 posted on 07/09/2008 6:29:23 AM PDT by STONEWALLS
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To: johnstown
Pro-Homosexual Denominations Lose Numbers

Ha Ha.

34 posted on 07/09/2008 6:31:29 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Obamafeld, "A CAMPAIGN ABOUT NOTHING".)
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To: Non-Sequitur
The article makes it clear that churches who welcome homosexuals inthe congregation seem to be shrinking in membership

You might amend that statement to read "unchaste homosexuals" for accuracy.

35 posted on 07/09/2008 6:43:42 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: johnstown

You might want to recheck the statistics on Southern Baptist Convention.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2008-06-10-southern-baptists_N.htm

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91414826


36 posted on 07/09/2008 6:45:20 AM PDT by Notasoccermom (.)
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To: johnstown

Just as the homosexuals succeeded in underming the Catholic Church, so likewise they are doing in other churches by driving people away from Christianity. Their sickness is a disease and their master is the devil.


37 posted on 07/09/2008 6:48:23 AM PDT by Neoliberalnot ((Hallmarks of Liberalism: Ingratitude and Envy))
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To: Non-Sequitur
The article makes it clear that churches who welcome homosexuals inthe congregation seem to be shrinking in membership while those who do not seem to be growing. What constitutes 'not welcoming' would seem to be clear to me, but apparently there may be more to this than meets the eye. So enlighten me on how the doctrine of the conservative churches deal with homosexuality.

We've been over this before. The issue is not whether homos are welcomed or not. The issue is not whether homosexuality is a worse sin than other sins or not. The issue is that the pro-homo crowd insists that homosexuality is (no longer) a sin. If homosexuality (or adultery or fornication) are no longer sins, then nothing is a sin anymore and we have no need of a redeemer.

Once a church starts "accepting" the homosexual lifestyle is normal, they begin to endorse and celebrate it.

38 posted on 07/09/2008 6:50:18 AM PDT by Sans-Culotte
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To: wideawake
You might amend that statement to read "unchaste homosexuals" for accuracy.

So the more conservative churches would welcome 'chaste' homosexuals? How will they enforce that?

39 posted on 07/09/2008 6:51:03 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: wideawake

Thanks for posting this.

“I don’t think the ECUSA, UMC, PCUSA, DOC, ELCA or UCC have been teaching these doctrines since 1962.

Especially since the UMC has only existed since 1968, the PCUSA since 1983, and ELCA since 1988.”

The Methodist and Episcopal churches didn’t really get into this mess until the 1980’s and the late 1980’s for the E’s.

I stopped going to the E conventions in the 1990’s due to the maggots turning every convention into a pro gay pride fest.


40 posted on 07/09/2008 6:58:58 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (America's Mugabe, the Obamination.will bring Mugabe Change to America!)
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To: Dr. Sivana
Is it possible that the Anglicans and Episcopalians don’t CARE if they shrink?

I tend to believe that its not apathy that has caused these denominations to fall, but rather it is a focused attack from homosexual activists.

Baptists and Catholics shouldn't be smug. If homosexual activists cannot get around the strong Bible-centered faith of the Baptists or the strong conservative central leadership of the Catholics, they will find legal means to close us down.

California has already forced Catholic hospitals to provide contraceptive benefits to its employees. Just wait and see what happens when a priest refuses to perform a gay marriage in California.

41 posted on 07/09/2008 7:01:18 AM PDT by kidd
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To: Sans-Culotte
The issue is not whether homos are welcomed or not. The issue is not whether homosexuality is a worse sin than other sins or not.

Who grades sin as to severity? And who decides which sins are OK and which aren't?

42 posted on 07/09/2008 7:09:12 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: johnstown

I think the highest increase in any one year since the 1970’s for Southern Baptists was 12 percent. I have read several stories about declining baptisms (and membership) in recent years.

The 76 percent increase is entirely bogus.


43 posted on 07/09/2008 7:09:42 AM PDT by detch
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To: Non-Sequitur
So the more conservative churches would welcome 'chaste' homosexuals? How will they enforce that?

Presumably they will preach the Christian ideal of chastity from their pulpits as one of the constituent elements of their normal Gospel witness, and those among the faithful who cannot accept this moral teaching will leave and those who accept it will strive to live by it.

Presumably those who accept the teaching but struggle with it in their lives will seek the counsel of their pastors to make positive changes in the way they live and will be encouraged and challenged to do the right thing.

44 posted on 07/09/2008 7:20:42 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: johnstown
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

..the SBC comes out looking pretty good--there must be something to that idea they embrace of the Bible as the last word on church doctrine...

45 posted on 07/09/2008 7:25:33 AM PDT by WalterSkinner ( In Memory of My Father--WWII Vet and Patriot 1926-2007)
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To: Non-Sequitur
That's ridiculous! Love is not automatic approval, and automatic approval is not love. As Christians we must pray for the salvation of others, and be there for them if and when they chose to seek it.

The one extreme or the other nonsense is a leftist argument. As Christians, we are not supposed to approve of behavior that the Bible forbids. That does not mean you hate or fear the person.

46 posted on 07/09/2008 7:25:52 AM PDT by gidget7 (Duncan Hunter-Valley Forge Republican!)
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To: kidd

Yeah kidd,

I was just thinking that the other day. We may not think it possible that they could force any Catholic priest to perform a same sex wedding, but 10 years ago, no one woulda thought that the evil that has descended upon us could have happened as it has. Scary, just keep praying. Pray unceasingly until you stop breathing or your Redeemer appears.


47 posted on 07/09/2008 7:28:43 AM PDT by SaintDismas
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To: wideawake
Presumably those who accept the teaching but struggle with it in their lives will seek the counsel of their pastors to make positive changes in the way they live and will be encouraged and challenged to do the right thing.

Or I suppose they could rewrite scripture and proclaim it isn't really a sin after all, like they've done for others? Not that I expect that to happen any time soon.

48 posted on 07/09/2008 7:31:24 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: johnstown
We cannot judge a soul to heaven or hell. That is God’s doing.

Succinctly put, but he did give us the command to decipher good from evil and act upon it.

49 posted on 07/09/2008 7:39:34 AM PDT by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: STONEWALLS
Protestant denominations split in the 1850s over slavery...this time the tipping point appears to be homosexuality.

Homosexual "marriages" and ordinations of noncelibate homosexuals have become a catalyst for the splitting of denominations. However, secessionist bodies have existed for decades. In the instance of Presbyterians, the OPC (1930s start-up) and the EPC (1970s start-up) represented breakaways from the UPCUSA, the Northern Presbyterian church, while the PCA, another 1970s start-up, was a conservative split from the PCUS, the Southern Presbyterian church. All three groups believe in Biblical inerrancy and subscribe to a somewhat strict to very strict interpretation of the Westminster Standards. What is happening now is that even the moderates in the mainline churches are becoming fed up. They did not vigorously protest the de facto abandonment of the historic Reformation creeds and the Protestant "solas", the rise of the "social gospel", i.e., socialism and radical egalitarian baptized by church officials, and the ordination of women to the positions of deacon, elder, pastor, or priest. However, the rise of homosexual activism is the proverbial straw that broke the moderates' back.

The split between looser and stricter interpretations of the Westminster Standards had roiled Presbyterian circles for over a century before Fort Sumter. The slavery issue was the catalyst for the split between the Northern and Southern Presbyterian churches that had been brewing for several decades. Similar splits among Methodists and Baptists in the same time frame had older theological causes as well as immediate political ones. History may not exactly repeat itself, but you can hear similar tunes.

50 posted on 07/09/2008 7:42:03 AM PDT by Wallace T.
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