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Global warming causing California glacier to grow, scientists say
CBC.CA ^

Posted on 07/09/2008 12:35:27 PM PDT by Sub-Driver

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To: raisetheroof
It takes cold to turn that moisture into snow. If this is due to global warming, where did the cold come from?

Let me take a crack at this! Um.....from the glaciers? How'd I do??? How'd I do??? How'd I do???

51 posted on 07/09/2008 1:28:52 PM PDT by Catholic Canadian ( I love Stephen Harper!)
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To: NC28203

When air rises, it cools at a rate of 5.5 degrees Fahrenheit for every 1000 feet. This is called the dry adiabatic lapse rate. When it reaches the dew point, the moisture condenses, and the lapse rate is lower, 2-3 degrees/1000 feet(wet adiabatic lapse rate). Then, the moisture falls out as rain or snow. If the air was 50 degrees at sea level, it would begin to snow when it reached the 3000 foot level or so. I took a course in high school meteorology.


52 posted on 07/09/2008 1:44:16 PM PDT by dnetti
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To: NC28203

When air rises, it cools at a rate of 5.5 degrees Fahrenheit for every 1000 feet. This is called the dry adiabatic lapse rate. When it reaches the dew point, the moisture condenses, and the lapse rate is lower, 2-3 degrees/1000 feet(wet adiabatic lapse rate). Then, the moisture falls out as rain or snow. If the air was 50 degrees at sea level, it would begin to snow when it reached the 3000 foot level or so. I took a course in high school meteorology.


53 posted on 07/09/2008 1:44:20 PM PDT by dnetti
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To: Sub-Driver

“As the ocean warms, more moisture evaporates. As moisture moves inland, it falls as snow — enough on Shasta to more than offset a 1 C temperature rise in the past century.”

So why isn`t global warming causing glaciers to grow in other parts of the world? Why just the Shasta glaciers?


54 posted on 07/09/2008 1:45:03 PM PDT by chessplayer
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To: Sub-Driver
As the ocean warms, more moisture evaporates. As moisture moves inland, it falls as snow

Ok, so California gets more moisture as a result of global warming? I was under the impression that the drought and the resulting wildfires this year were a result of global warming.
55 posted on 07/09/2008 2:20:31 PM PDT by loreldan (Can't vote for Obama, so rah rah McCain I guess)
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To: qam1
New Zealand that Large Red dot is a lie, all 48 out of 48 Glaciers are growing.

"All 48 glaciers in the Southern Alps have grown during the past year."

Maybe the dot summarizes a trend longer than a year?

56 posted on 07/09/2008 2:22:14 PM PDT by cogitator
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To: qam1
Most notably Greenland & Antarctica

Antarctic glaciers show retreat


57 posted on 07/09/2008 2:30:26 PM PDT by cogitator
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To: cogitator

“Maybe the dot summarizes a trend longer than a year.”

I don’t know. Does it?


58 posted on 07/09/2008 2:40:48 PM PDT by Thickman (Term limits are the answer.)
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To: Sub-Driver
They sound like such fools! No matter what happens....... globull warming is the cause.
59 posted on 07/09/2008 2:42:49 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: qam1

“Your Wikipedia picture is conveniently missing a whole lot
Most notably Greenland & Antarctica

“and in New Zealand that Large Red dot is a lie, all 48 out of 48 Glaciers are growing.”

Thanks for the link which demonstrates that data can be found to support either side of the AGW debate. The point being that we don’t even know if the earth is actually warming - let alone what is causing it.


60 posted on 07/09/2008 2:42:58 PM PDT by Thickman (Term limits are the answer.)
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To: Sub-Driver
What's bad about a glacier growing? If there was no "global warming" this is what in fact would happen. Instead the Greens are tearing their hair out over a mythical climate change. Hilarious!

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

61 posted on 07/09/2008 2:45:36 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Sub-Driver
But the seven glaciers on Shasta, part of the Cascade mountains in northern California, "seem to be benefiting from the warming ocean," he said.

Wait till they see what hapens in the Arctic if that ocean warms.

62 posted on 07/09/2008 2:56:22 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Obama's idea of trickle-down economics is to piss on business.)
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To: Sub-Driver
Global Warming! Is there anything it can't do?


63 posted on 07/09/2008 3:04:06 PM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin '36 Olympics for murdering regimes Beijing '08)
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To: Sub-Driver
There's one thing you can say about climate and that is it's always changing and has been changing for 4 billion years. It has been a hell of a lot hotter in the past than it is now and a hell of a lot colder. It's going to continue to change and there is not a damn thing we can do about it. I'm just glad I'm living on this earth during a warming trend because when it turns the other way billions of people are going to die of starvation and pestilence.
64 posted on 07/09/2008 3:09:47 PM PDT by kempo
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To: chessplayer
So why isn`t global warming causing glaciers to grow in other parts of the world? Why just the Shasta glaciers?

Because Global Warming is a local phenomena.

Mostly in the data bases of computer generated climate models. ... And Mount Shasta.

It hasta be Shasta!

65 posted on 07/09/2008 3:11:43 PM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin '36 Olympics for murdering regimes Beijing '08)
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To: Thickman
The article below conflicts with the prior information received.

New Zealand glaciers retreat due to global warming: scientists

66 posted on 07/09/2008 3:32:54 PM PDT by cogitator
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To: Sub-Driver
Allow me to repost this picture of Mt. Shasta, that I took on August 31, 2007. This is looking at the north side.


67 posted on 07/09/2008 5:26:52 PM PDT by Clovis_Skeptic
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To: autumnraine

No. I have an ice catching freezer.


68 posted on 07/09/2008 6:12:26 PM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (I voted Republican because no Conservatives were running.)
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To: cogitator

of course it does.


69 posted on 07/10/2008 12:51:17 PM PDT by Thickman (Term limits are the answer.)
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To: cogitator

Of course it does.


70 posted on 07/10/2008 12:51:30 PM PDT by Thickman (Term limits are the answer.)
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To: raisetheroof

” If this is due to global warming, where did the cold come from? “

Must be from all the R-12 freon that earlier generations released into the air!


71 posted on 07/10/2008 1:01:16 PM PDT by dalereed (both)
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To: cogitator

Actually the authors of your link point out that the retreat is far more pronounced on one side while the other side is advancing.

The north side of my house turns green in the winter.


72 posted on 07/10/2008 1:08:48 PM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Thickman

Well, thinking back, the title of the plot is “Changes in mountain glaciers since 1970”, so to provide a refutation of a particular region with a one-year trend (as quoted), and to call the graphical depiction a falsehood — which is what I was responding to — seems logically misguided.


73 posted on 07/10/2008 2:14:14 PM PDT by cogitator
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To: cogitator; Thickman
The article below conflicts with the prior information received. New Zealand glaciers retreat due to global warming: scientists

Typical Cherry Picked fraudulent study.

Here's the Franz Josef and Fox Glaciers

Despite their consistent retreat throughout most of the 20th Century, they have advanced over 1 km since 1985.

So where's the big blue dot over New Zealand?

Your study of course picks a time before the advance and just draws a straight line to the present ignoring the 23 year current trend.

So please by all means, explain how Global warming can cause a glacier to first retreat then later advance?

Your other links are similarly cherry picked

Antarctica, yeah we know the Western Peninsula is shrinking, but it's only a small part of the continent (and a volcanically active one at that), while the rest of Antarctica has been rapidly gaining ice.

74 posted on 07/10/2008 8:08:31 PM PDT by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: qam1
From the article I linked to:

"A report by the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA) said the volume of ice in New Zealand's Southern Alps had shrunk almost 11 percent in the past 30 years. ... More than 90 percent of this loss was because the 12 largest glaciers in the mountain range were melting due to rising temperatures, NIWA said."

So first I wonder what happened to the glaciers from 1970-1985; then I note that the New Zealand circle on the plot is consistent with the above report; then I answer:

So please by all means, explain how Global warming can cause a glacier to first retreat then later advance?

Glacial retreat and advance is a balance of accretion in the accumulation zone and melt in the ablation zone. Furthermore, glaciers integrate climate processes over long periods of time (the bigger the glacier, the longer the period) so what a glacier is doing in present time is a response to the changing balance of accretion and melt occurring over a period of time prior to the present. So... a glacier might first retreat due to faster melting while in the accumulation zone more snowfall is occurring; and in response to that, cease retreating and advance for awhile even though melting is still enhanced over the earlier rate in the ablation zone. As they even noted for the Shasta glaciers, if it keeps warming, eventually the warming will "win" over the force causing the advance.

Antarctica, yeah we know the Western Peninsula is shrinking, but it's only a small part of the continent (and a volcanically active one at that), while the rest of Antarctica has been rapidly gaining ice.

I assume that you've read this, then:

Ozone Hole Recovery May Reshape Southern Hemisphere Climate Change And Amplify Antarctic Warming

I don't remember reading anything about the continent of Antarctica "rapidly" gaining ice; sea ice around the continent has been increasing, for which there are two separate research papers indicating this is a consequence of global warming. (I'm not kidding.)

Warmer Air May Cause Increased Antarctic Sea Ice Cover

Increasing Antarctic Sea Ice under Warming Atmospheric and Oceanic Conditions

I grabbed the latter from a previous post of mine on this thread:

A New Record for Antarctic Total Ice Extent?

75 posted on 07/10/2008 10:30:56 PM PDT by cogitator
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