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Concealed Weapon Permits (if you have a Utah CCW respond to this editorial)
ksl.com ^ | 7/9/08 | Duane Cardall

Posted on 07/09/2008 3:18:12 PM PDT by skyman

Utah lawmakers need to take a hard look at changing a law that allows the State's Department of Public Safety to issue concealed weapon permits to out-of-state residents.

Utah, it seems, has become the permit-issuer of choice for thousands of hand-gun owners across the nation. This year, Utah is projected to issue some 40,000 permits. That will be a 143-percent increase over last year and a 257-percent increase over 2006. About half of all permits are issued to people who don't reside in Utah. They apply here, it seems, because lawmakers have made the process efficient and inexpensive.

The person who oversees the issuance of permits for the Department of Public Safety recently told a legislative committee that the program "is becoming unmanageable." While the department does a good job of monitoring concealed carry holders in Utah, Richard Townsend said it is "increasingly difficult" to keep tabs on out-of-state permit holders and the 650 individuals in other states who are authorized under Utah statute to teach firearms safety.

It begs a couple of simple questions: why is the state of Utah even in the business of arming the nation? How does it benefit the people of Utah?

Without solid, non-ideological answers to those questions, it would be best to stop issuing permits to out-of-state applicants.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; ccw; righttocarrylaws; selfdenfense
Utah's governor has come out lately against issuing out of state CCW's and now the largest newspaper is also. Let your opinion be known at. Let them know your opinion: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=238&sid=3681065
1 posted on 07/09/2008 3:18:15 PM PDT by skyman
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To: skyman

I’m guessing that western states ‘reciprocate’ - that is they honor the CCW issued by a neighboring state? I live in Pennsylvania and I don’t think any of our immediate neighbors, except perhaps WVA (and I don’t really know in that case) honors our CCW’s. We are a ‘shall issue’ state & all of the surrounding states are more restrictive.


2 posted on 07/09/2008 3:28:34 PM PDT by Tallguy (Tagline is offline till something better comes along...)
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To: skyman

Aren’t these permits for nonresidents , who do not have a permit in their home state or whose home state permits may not be recognized in Utah ( if there are any ) to be allowed concealed carry while in the State of Utah ?


3 posted on 07/09/2008 3:29:27 PM PDT by kbennkc (For those who have fought for it , freedom has a flavor the protected will never know)
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To: skyman

You need to take a course from a certified Utah instructor for a UT CCW and Utah can and does de-list instructors who do not strictly follow the rules. Fingerprinting is required and background checks are done. This isn’t just handing them out to anyone.

Plus it’s $50 or $60 a license which is money flowing into the state.


4 posted on 07/09/2008 3:30:21 PM PDT by xDGx
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To: Tallguy

UT CCW is honored in OH and (I think) DE

NY, NJ & MD don’t honor many (any?) from other states, but they are all socialist hellholes anyway.


5 posted on 07/09/2008 3:32:03 PM PDT by xDGx
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To: xDGx

considering usually civilians employed for the local PD do this background check for about $10, they’re making MORE money.


6 posted on 07/09/2008 3:32:59 PM PDT by WOBBLY BOB (Conservatives are to McCain what Charlie Brown is to Lucy.)
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To: skyman

Assuming that arming yourself is a Right, and I believe the Supreme Court agrees, what is wrong with this?

Oh, I know: it offends somebody’s sensibilities that they can’t “control” who gets a permit...


7 posted on 07/09/2008 3:33:02 PM PDT by Redbob ("WWJBD" ="What Would Jack Bauer Do?")
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To: skyman

If I understand correctly the proposed change won’t remove Utah out-of-state CCW completely. It will make it so you actually have to go to Utah to get one. I’m not convinced I really have a problem with that...well besides the entire permit thing in the first place, but that’s a different argument.

Also I don’t believe that it would change any current Utah reciprocity laws. Utah honors most State’s CCW permits.


8 posted on 07/09/2008 3:34:41 PM PDT by Domandred (McCain's 'R' is a typo that has never been corrected)
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To: skyman

Duane needs a life:

Utah’s not “arming the nation” - the nation is already armed, and legally so.


9 posted on 07/09/2008 3:36:25 PM PDT by Redbob ("WWJBD" ="What Would Jack Bauer Do?")
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To: kbennkc

That’s one reason. I know a number of people in my state (whose permit is recognized by Utah) who have Utah nonresident permits anyway. In our case, our state doesn’t have a training requirement and there are some states that won’t extend reciprocity for permits that don’t have training requirements, so getting the Utah permit opens up a few more states where one can carry with it even though our own resident permit isn’t recognized.


10 posted on 07/09/2008 3:41:31 PM PDT by Turbopilot (iumop ap!sdn w,I 'aw dlaH)
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To: skyman
Idaho CCW is recognized by many states including Utah. Still, many in Idaho take the Utah CCW class as a means of expanding reciprocity to other states. I haven't bothered as I rarely travel with my firearms.
11 posted on 07/09/2008 3:42:13 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: skyman

I always thought Florida was the best license, giving you something like 28 states, and accepting your training from your home state, in a simple mail-in process? Has this changed?

I just did some research at usacarry.com.

The following states accept UT but not FL permits (assuming non resident of Utah or Florida): WA, MN, WV.


12 posted on 07/09/2008 3:44:33 PM PDT by Beelzebubba (Guns don't kill people, criminals and the governments that create them do.)
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To: Domandred
The Utah CCW classes are offered at the Crossroads of the West Gun Shows in Sandy, UT. You'll spend all day in the classroom rather than having time to walk through the show itself. Fees apply as previously noted.
13 posted on 07/09/2008 3:45:17 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: skyman

All I can say is IF Obama wins in November, the Democrats will be emboldened and claim a mandate. That leads to more controls.

As a result, I am more than tempted to check this out and act accordingly.

Thanks for the post.


14 posted on 07/09/2008 3:50:58 PM PDT by Morgan in Denver (The "P" in Democrat stands for Patriot.......)
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To: skyman

-bflr-


15 posted on 07/09/2008 3:51:04 PM PDT by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the MSM tells you about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: skyman
"... This year, Utah is projected to issue some 40,000 permits [...] It begs a couple of simple questions: why is the state of Utah even in the business of arming the nation? How does it benefit the people of Utah?

Utah's CCW permit costs a fee of $65.25.

Multiplied by 40,000, this is revenue of $2.61 million into Utah state coffers.

16 posted on 07/09/2008 3:53:36 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: Beelzebubba

Utah is the best license to get now.


17 posted on 07/09/2008 3:54:16 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: The KG9 Kid

MO CCW is accepted in 31 states, 16 do not recognize it (all NE and left coast minus WA) it and of course 2 have no CCW period.

Only problem is that MO does not issue CCW endorsements to non-residents....

God Bless


18 posted on 07/09/2008 4:09:40 PM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret) "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: The KG9 Kid

http://ago.mo.gov/Concealed-Weapons/Concealed-Carry-Reciprocity-Missouri.htm

Here is the MO AG website with reciprocity info....


19 posted on 07/09/2008 4:11:21 PM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret) "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: Beelzebubba

Florida Concealed Carry Reciprocity

1. Alabama
2. Alaska
3. Arizona
4. Arkansas
5. Colorado
6. Delaware
7. Georgia
8. Idaho
9. Indiana
10. Kansas
11. Kentucky
12. Louisiana
13. Michigan
14. Mississippi
15. Missouri
16. Montana
17. New Hampshire
18. New Mexico
19. Nevada
20. North Carolina
21. North Dakota
22. Ohio
23. Oklahoma
24. Pennsylvania
25. South Dakota
26. Tennessee
27. Texas
28. Utah
29. Vermont
30. Virginia
31. West Virginia
32. Wyoming


20 posted on 07/09/2008 4:18:01 PM PDT by Popman (McCain as POTUS is odious, Obama as POTUS is unthinkable.)
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To: Manly Warrior

I’m surprised that Utah honors MO’s CCW.


21 posted on 07/09/2008 4:38:23 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: The KG9 Kid
Utah is the best license to get now.

I am surprised at the interpretation that a nonresident license would be accepted in any state other than the issuing state . As a Idaho resident licensee , my permit is not recognized in Washington or Nevada . If I get a Utah nonresident license , I am now told both states would accept it . Why would not everyone skip the licensing in their state of residency and just go with the Utah ? Can a non licensed Nevada resident just get a Utah non resident license and carry concealed lawfully in Nevada ?

22 posted on 07/09/2008 4:38:30 PM PDT by kbennkc (For those who have fought for it , freedom has a flavor the protected will never know)
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To: Redbob
Agree. The second ammendment is the only permit a U.S. citizen needs. A possible way for this 'concept' to go national would be to mimic the liberals: "If it saves just one life!"- it needs to be made mandatory.

Seatbelts, child carrier seats, bicycle helmets, hands-free cell phone use only, smoking bans, taking a kid to a lake or river without a lifevest, etc. All enacted to protect that 'one' precious life. Well, a gun is used many times a day to protect a life and, following the lib's logic, carrying a gun ought to be mandatory.

If you're over eighteen you must attend a weapons class. If you can't afford a gun, the state will provide one. If you are found unarmed outside your home- a fifty dollar first-time fine. One hundred for the next one. Hunting with a state provided handgun will be prohibited; it is for self-defense only. Robbing a liqour store with a state gun will double fines and sentences.

Use of a private weapon to stop a crime in progress will accrue the owner $100. A state gun holder- $20. The fine for engaging in a loud party and shoot-up where people are killed will result in a $500 fine to any state gun holder that lives through it. The private weapon holder will not be liable as they most likely were not in attendance, and if they were, had the best shot placement, besides, you should be honored to be on the receiving end of such finely crafted tools such as Kimber, Colt, Smith&Wesson, Strum Ruger, Berretta, and just about anything in the Glock line.

23 posted on 07/09/2008 4:42:06 PM PDT by budwiesest (Barack is going to lose by 37 states. He'll only take 20.)
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To: kbennkc
Why would not everyone skip the licensing in their state of residency and just go with the Utah ?

I suppose it is probably a good idea to have a license issued by the state you reside in. Beyond that, rather than worry about having a license for every other state, one can accomplish the same thing by having a non resident license from a few states (FL, Utah and a couple others) that are widely accepted by other states.

24 posted on 07/09/2008 4:47:56 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: skyman

Registration requirements = Infringement.

Carry Permit requirements = Infringement.

FFL requirement = Infringement.

BATF existence = Infringement.

Heller = just the first step down a long road back to Freedom.


25 posted on 07/09/2008 4:49:36 PM PDT by ExGeeEye (I've been waiting since 11/04/79 for us (US) to do something about Iran.)
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To: kbennkc
To answer your last question: No, I don't think so. I believe that if you're a resident of NV, they will only honor a NV CCW. Don't take my word for it on this one.

Many states seem to have a rule where they won't honor one of their own citizens' non-resident CCW of another state within their state. Just make sure you have your own state's resident CCW if you have another state's non-resident CCW that's honored in the state you live in. Everyone pretty much does, so it's not a big issue, but it is the law in many states.

Also, only a few states don't honor non-resident permits of states that they have reciprocity with, but they are out there so you need to check the laws when travelling.

I think that Nevada may honor Idaho's CCW later this year. We added eight states last fall and will probably add more. At some point, Nevada's CCW will be the best non-resident CCW to acquire.

26 posted on 07/09/2008 4:50:14 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: ExGeeEye

Nice list. Well done. I might add, with registration one eventually gets confiscation. If anything must go, that’s it.


27 posted on 07/09/2008 4:52:59 PM PDT by budwiesest (Barack is going to lose by 37 states. He'll only take 20.)
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To: kbennkc
kbennkc said: "... to be allowed concealed carry while in the State of Utah ?"

Yes, and over two dozen other states which recognize Utah's permit. The list of states includes Arizona, Washington, Idaho, Arizona, and recently added Nevada. With a Utah permit and an Oregon permit, a Kalifornian can carry in all the far western states; except for Kalifornia, of course.

My Florida permit is recognized in most of the same states. But the Utah permit is recognized in Washington state and Florida is not. Florida is recognized in Pennsylvania, but Utah is not.

When time comes to renew, Florida will want about $100 and Utah will want about $10. Gee, if I only renew one of them, which should it be?

The best outcome here is probably for Utah to increase their fees so that it covers their costs. I've been told that Florida makes a lot of money by issuing permits regardless of state of residence. Utah could do the same.

28 posted on 07/09/2008 5:12:20 PM PDT by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
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To: The KG9 Kid
The KG9 Kid said: "At some point, Nevada's CCW will be the best non-resident CCW to acquire. "

Really? Right now the permit requires a Nevada certified instructor and the course must be taught in Nevada. Also, one must "qualify" with each firearm to be listed on the permit by make and model.

I say "qualify" because the requirement is almost impossible to fail unless one is legally blind or suffering from uncontrollable shaking. But the requirement means that you must go to Nevada with ALL the weapons that one wishes to have noted on the permit. The permit does not allow carrying of any weapon not listed.

I haven't looked at the renewal requirements lately, so I can't remember if I would be expected to re-take the class including the "qualifying" with all the weapons. The class was $175 (which included Utah) and the permit fees were close to $100, I think. Utah was only $60 (from memory) but I did have to cough up about $20 for local fingerprinting.

In my case, the Utah permit is good for five years, but I just missed a change in Nevada law, so my non-resident permit is only good for two and a half years. I think the new law changes that to five.

29 posted on 07/09/2008 5:29:44 PM PDT by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
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To: William Tell
Best, not easiest. Easy requirements where some states give the CCW to anyone who can pass the FBI background check have less chance of being honored through reciprocity. What this article addresses is that UT's governor is looking into curtailing UT's good thing.

Just fly into Vegas, book in at the MGM Grand, leave your wife at the day spa, come get your NV CCW, spend a lot of money in town, and fly home!

30 posted on 07/09/2008 5:47:46 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: The KG9 Kid
Why?

The MO CCW is one of the most comprehensive and solid set of laws enacted-anyone other than prohibited persons shall be issued, redress if not issued and not prohibited (IOW the local sheriff cannot be arbitrary, the district court is the authority over the sheriff, permit to purchase went away last year, castle came in then as well minimal restriction on CCW, parking lots are protected, preemption of city ordances etc, range protection laws, immunity from civil litigation if found justified to use deadly force etc....

If interested, search for “RSMO 571” and you'll get the code.

I have carried in many states previously, MO seems to be provide the most liberty.... We are now working on reducing the list of restricted places and requiring “posted” places to be entered into the AG database BEFORE a prohibition takes effect,
Training is required from NRA certified instructors or LEO certified training officers, low cost (not more than $100 by law) most cost around $65-only as much is required to pay for NCIC check ($15) the rest for local checks and processing with accounting required to the AG....

God Bless

NRA cert rifle & pistol
MO CCW Instructor

31 posted on 07/09/2008 5:50:00 PM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret) "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: Manly Warrior

Because there’s still some bad sentiments about MO as far as UT people are concerned. :)


32 posted on 07/09/2008 6:14:53 PM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: skyman

Free men don’t ask for permission anyway.


33 posted on 07/09/2008 7:29:59 PM PDT by elkfersupper
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To: kbennkc

yup. think safety in travelling.

you have NJ plates, you’re driving thru OH, you go thru a bad section of town. thug sees NJ plates, goes “no way they’re armed” and tries to jack your car.

*BANG*

one dead perp, and you just saved your family.


34 posted on 07/10/2008 10:39:59 AM PDT by absolootezer0 ( Detroit: we're so bad, even our mayor is a criminal)
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To: kbennkc

If I get an Iowa CCW permit, it’s not recognized a lot of other states. If I get a Utah non-resident permit as well, now I can carry when I leave the state.

My husband and I applied for our Utah permits last week.


35 posted on 07/10/2008 10:51:17 AM PDT by JenB
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To: The KG9 Kid

You must be talking about a Mormon thing-I guess.

As a man who has lived in every part of this country and at least 13 states during my military career, I see America in terms of Red, White and Blue, not NE, S, MW W etc....

God Bless


36 posted on 07/10/2008 11:22:11 AM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret) "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: Popman

Popman

Michigan does not reconize non resident CCW.

Here is the facts by state> GREAT BOOKMARK

http://www.carryconcealed.net/packngo/index.php


37 posted on 07/10/2008 3:43:32 PM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER ( “If you're not ready to die for it, put the word ''freedom'' out of your vocabulary.” – Malcolm)
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