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When hot is cold
Waterbury Republican-American ^ | July 10, 2008 | Editorial

Posted on 07/10/2008 10:39:30 AM PDT by Graybeard58

Research funded by NASA, the National Science Foundation and the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution suggests underwater volcanoes up to a mile in diameter have erupted violently in the past decade beneath the Arctic ice cap.

The eruptions coincided with growing hysteria over the unprovable theory that civilization is causing runaway global warming (which among other things is supposedly melting the ice cap), and with research irrefutably confirming that the Antarctic ice cap is growing and that the planet has cooled 1 F in the last decade.

Scientists used to think deep-sea volcanoes dribbled lava because of the weight of the overlying water. But this new research, reported in the journal Nature, determined pockets of magma beneath the oceanic crust build to the point where they pop "like a champagne bottle being uncorked," Imaginova.com reported via Fox News.

Logic dictates such violent discharges of hot magma would warm the water, which in turn would melt the surface ice. Not so, says Robert Reeves-Sohn of Woods Hole. "We don't believe the volcanoes had much effect on the overlying ice."

Alas, this is the way of warmists.

Any time the possibility is raised that natural forces may be responsible for what they ascribe to man-made warming, they respond: "NOPE (No Other Possible Explanation), it's global warming." Categorically ruling out volcanic eruptions as a factor in the melting Arctic ice cap is consistent with their belief that changes in solar radiance do not affect earth's climate.

But if you light a Bunsen burner and place it beneath a beaker of ice, does the ice not melt? And if you light a Sterno container and place it beneath a tray of ice, does the ice not melt? So why can't undersea volcanoes be at least contributing to the melting of the Arctic ice cap?


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: climatechange; coastalenvironment; environment; globalwarming; northwestpassage

1 posted on 07/10/2008 10:39:30 AM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: ballplayer; warsaw44; Grizzled Bear; Tunehead54; G.Love; nothingnew; dcwusmc; Responsibility2nd; ...

Ping to a Republican-American Editorial.

If you want on or off this list, let me know.


2 posted on 07/10/2008 10:40:25 AM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: Graybeard58

Silly writer......The volcanoes are erupting BECAUSE of GLOWBULL WARMING!.....The earth warms and expands, then cracks form, allowing the magma to flow..............see? simple.....


3 posted on 07/10/2008 10:42:07 AM PDT by Red Badger (If we drill deep enough, we can reach the Saudi oil fields from THIS side..........)
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To: Graybeard58

“So why can’t undersea volcanoes be at least contributing to the melting of the Arctic ice cap?”

Because it would give credence to the idea that global warming is a hoax... which would mean the government can’t pass more regulations and taxes... which means they lose control over us.


4 posted on 07/10/2008 10:44:01 AM PDT by djsherin (I'm from the government and I'm here to be retarded.)
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To: Graybeard58

“Not so, says Robert Reeves-Sohn of Woods Hole. “We don’t believe the volcanoes had much effect on the overlying ice.””

Riiiiiiiiiiiight...When I read that statement in the original article a week or so ago I remember my thoughts weren’t quite printable at our family friendly site.


5 posted on 07/10/2008 10:44:44 AM PDT by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists...call 'em what you will...They ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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To: Graybeard58

Well, but a true-believer in the climate change perviously known as Global Warming, would tell you that man has caused these underground volcanic erruptions.


6 posted on 07/10/2008 10:45:44 AM PDT by Always Right (Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?)
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To: rockinqsranch

Back off man, he’s a scientist!


7 posted on 07/10/2008 10:47:52 AM PDT by DancesWithBolsheviks (We're all mavericks now.)
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To: Red Badger
The earth warms and expands, then cracks form, allowing the magma to flow..............see? simple.....

The Park District district just put in new side walks in the park across the street from my house, like all good side walks, it has expansion joints. We should put expansion joints all over the earth. We'll need a new tax to pay for it of course and since the U.S. is the great satan causing all the problems, we should pay for all of it.

8 posted on 07/10/2008 10:52:06 AM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: Graybeard58
The Park District district just put in new side walks in the park across the street from my house...

What a coincidence! The county just put in new sidewalks across the street from my house, too! After 30 years of people telling them they needed sidewalks for the children to walk safely to school across the street. The finally got it done!...........The school was closed by the school board last month................

9 posted on 07/10/2008 10:59:15 AM PDT by Red Badger (If we drill deep enough, we can reach the Saudi oil fields from THIS side..........)
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To: Graybeard58

Globull warming is a religion. All efforts to prove it wrong will be met by zealots calling you a Holocaust denier.


10 posted on 07/10/2008 10:59:41 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Graybeard58

If they were melting in the winter then I’d be worried.


11 posted on 07/10/2008 11:06:47 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: rockinqsranch

“We don’t believe the volcanoes had much effect on the overlying ice,” Reeves-Sohn told LiveScience, “but they seem to have had a major impact on the overlying water column.”

The eruptions discharge large amounts of carbon dioxide, helium, trace metals and heat into the water over long distances, he said.”

Amazing isn’t it. Major impact but no effect.


12 posted on 07/10/2008 11:09:15 AM PDT by LBJay
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To: Graybeard58
Any time the possibility is raised that natural forces may be responsible for what they ascribe to man-made warming, they respond: "NOPE (No Other Possible Explanation), it's global warming." Categorically ruling out volcanic eruptions as a factor in the melting Arctic ice cap is consistent with their belief that changes in solar radiance do not affect earth's climate.

But if you light a Bunsen burner and place it beneath a beaker of ice, does the ice not melt? And if you light a Sterno container and place it beneath a tray of ice, does the ice not melt? So why can't undersea volcanoes be at least contributing to the melting of the Arctic ice cap?

It would be nice if the editorial board matched its calculations, and not just its opinions, against those of Mr. Reeves-Sohn.

Not saying the latter is correct ... but he could be, if the thermal output of the volcanoes turns out not to be sufficient to explain the rate at which the ice in the region is melting.

13 posted on 07/10/2008 11:09:23 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb

“Not saying the latter is correct ... but he could be, if the thermal output of the volcanoes turns out not to be sufficient to explain the rate at which the ice in the region is melting.”

I’d be very interested in seeing some mathematical analysis of this. It’d only be speculation, since there’s no knowledge of how much magma has erupted _over the years_, but it would bound the problem.

Of course, the heat from the volcanoes doesn’t need to be enough to actually melt the ice, just tip the equilibrium to more ice melting in summer than freezes in winter.

I continue to expect a fair global temperature decline over the next twenty years or so. Should be fun to watch algore and the polar bear lovers melt down. ;-)


14 posted on 07/10/2008 11:14:45 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty
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To: PreciousLiberty
I'm agnostic about Mr. Reeve-Sohn's claim. My objection is that this editorial board is making such definitive claims without having done any serious work to back them up.

It's the same sin of which they're accusing the "warmists."

15 posted on 07/10/2008 11:16:34 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Graybeard58

Hey, Global Warming is Real!

And so is Pro Wrestling!

WWF Forever!

So There!


16 posted on 07/10/2008 11:18:43 AM PDT by Wiseghy ("You want to break this army? Then break your word to it.")
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To: r9etb
I'm agnostic about Mr. Reeve-Sohn's claim. My objection is that this editorial board is making such definitive claims without having done any serious work to back them up.

It's the same sin of which they're accusing the "warmists." Not it's not, and Mr. Reeve-Sohn is not making a claim, he's making and anti-claim. I think you are confused.

17 posted on 07/10/2008 11:23:34 AM PDT by the_devils_advocate_666
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To: Graybeard58

The volcanoes were noticed ten years ago. Were they new then? Many things are assumed to be new when first noticd, such as the Ozone Hole.


18 posted on 07/10/2008 11:26:14 AM PDT by RightWhale (I will veto each and every beer)
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To: Graybeard58
"We don't believe the volcanoes had much effect on the overlying ice."

But cow farts do.
19 posted on 07/10/2008 11:31:19 AM PDT by mmichaels1970
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To: the_devils_advocate_666
Not it's not, and Mr. Reeve-Sohn is not making a claim, he's making and anti-claim. I think you are confused.

Well, no ... you appear to be the confused one. I think it is at least possible that Mr. Reeve-Sohn actually did some math to back up his assertion (which was presented, without context, as a single sentence). If so, then his assertion would be a summary of results. Then again, perhaps he did no math.

Either way, the editorial board is full of crap on this one, because they clearly have not done ANY math -- they're just stating an opinion with no supporting evidence.

Suppose Mr. Reeves-Sohn has done the math on the topic, and his results are reasonable ... then the editorial board just looks stupid.

And then suppose that Mr. Reeves-Sohn hasn't done the math. Then the editorial board is being hypocritical -- excoriating Mr. Reeves-Sohn as the commit the same sin.

20 posted on 07/10/2008 11:36:10 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
says Robert Reeves-Sohn of Woods Hole. "We don't believe the volcanoes had much effect on the overlying ice."

This does not sound like he has "done the math".

21 posted on 07/10/2008 11:40:35 AM PDT by the_devils_advocate_666
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To: the_devils_advocate_666
This does not sound like he has "done the math".

Nor does it sound like he hasn't.

The editorial provides a single sentence, with absolutely no context.

If it were me -- and I am one who is paid to "do the math" in my field of work -- I might well phrase the results of my analysis in similar terms, especially if there were uncertainties involved.

It's irrelevant, however. My complaint, in case you hadn't noticed it the other three times I stated it, is with the editorial board, who are at best guilty of the same sin of which they accuse Mr. Reeve-Sohn.

22 posted on 07/10/2008 11:47:41 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Graybeard58; 11B40; A Balrog of Morgoth; A message; ACelt; Aeronaut; AFPhys; AlexW; ...
DOOMAGE!

Global Warming PING!

You have been pinged because of your interest in environmentalism, alarmist wackos, mainstream media doomsday hype, and other issues pertaining to global warming.

Freep-mail me to get on or off: Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy threads on global warming.

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23 posted on 07/10/2008 11:50:55 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Drill Here! Drill Now! Pay Less! Sign the petition at http://www.americansolutions.com/)
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To: Graybeard58

SITREP


24 posted on 07/10/2008 11:54:47 AM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: Graybeard58

So why can’t undersea volcanoes be at least contributing to the melting of the Arctic ice cap?
+++++++++++++++++++++
Why is this question even submitted? What’s important and what you need to come to grips with is that the science is settled. End of story. /s


25 posted on 07/10/2008 12:34:27 PM PDT by Joan Kerrey
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To: Graybeard58

“But if you light a Bunsen burner and place it beneath a beaker of ice, does the ice not melt?”

Just the kind of question you get from non-scientists. (Sarcasm)


26 posted on 07/10/2008 1:33:35 PM PDT by ChessExpert (Carbon Dioxide is not a pollutant. It is a trace gas necessary for life on earth.)
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To: PreciousLiberty

I’ve been doing something so that you all don’t have to. I’ve been reading over at RealClimate.org.

Want to talk about your completely brainwashed AGW proponents.

There are a few who are reasonable. I’ve tried telling them that if they keep this “nothing but AGW makes any sense” that they may down the road be proven wrong.

They continue to try to beat me down, but I’m not deterred by their complete unwillingness to see anything outside their blinders.

As far as some scientific background, one poster, who seemed to be a little less attcking than most had the following to say....

I enjoy reading your blog. Regarding the “volcano”, in 1999, a team from Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, led by geophysicist Rob Reves-Sohn, funded by the NSF, discovered Arctic Ocean thermovents along the Gakkel Ridge. The 1800 km Gakkel Ridge runs across the arctic from Greenland to Siberia and is submerged up to 4 km deep. Geologists now know that the Gakkel Ridge is an active zone of slow spreading tectonic plates with massive amounts of activity including explosive emissions of super carbonated magma that have blown the tops off dozens of undersea mountains, produced mineral/metal riches from extensive hydrothermal vents throughout the range and holds sea life around smoker chimneys with abundant hydrogen-sulfide based ecosystems.
It is the focus of scientists from around the world because of:
Governments seeking to stake their sea bottom dominion claims, grant money, greed/wealth, reputations/degrees, adventure, and advancement of human knowledge . The arctic seems to be teeming with researchers (American, Russian, and Canadian), their ice breakers, ships, submarines, and tourist flotillas! See ScienceDaily for info.
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080625140649.htm

Later, there was another post (#217) that completely did all the math. And after that, the word volcano wasn’t mentioned again in the entire thread.

The phrase “Quite a lot” in regards to the ice melt was used, and they suddenly switched to some other topic.

Paul


27 posted on 07/10/2008 1:40:19 PM PDT by spacewarp (Gun control is a tight cluster grouping in the chest and one in the forehead.)
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To: Graybeard58

No &@#**&@! concept of the heat capacity of water and the huge volume of the oceans. Science illiteracy and innumeracy in print.


28 posted on 07/10/2008 2:20:20 PM PDT by cogitator
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To: Graybeard58
Logic dictates such violent discharges of hot magma would warm the water, which in turn would melt the surface ice.

Do these idiots have any idea how much energy it takes to heat 1.3 BILLION cubic km of ocean ?

29 posted on 07/10/2008 2:24:24 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (A citizen using a weapon to shoot a criminal is the ultimate act of independence from government.)
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To: Graybeard58

Increased volcanism is a fact. The last time we had this occur the tempature also increased in the 1800’s until Krakatoa erupted, cooling the earth for the next hundred years. Or you could look at the Siberian Flats which caused more global extinction from volcanic carbon emissions then the great comet theory. This of course is the real truth, that we cannot control the self-regulating environment of our weather.

The idea of dumping iron into the ocean is dumb to cool the atmosphere, so is carbon screening panels. They are just drops in the bucket. Just another way for environmentalists and Dems to put there money into industries they promote through public misdirection as a sure fire way to return an investment. Some of us may wonder how Bill Clinton, after closing off millions of acres for ‘environmental reasons’ just as he left office went from $2 M in assets to $100 M today. Guess he must make millions per speaking engagements. DUH.


30 posted on 07/10/2008 3:51:53 PM PDT by quant5
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To: Graybeard58

Just pay attention to the actions of the head vampire of Global Warming hoax Al Gore. In 1999 when running for office stated America needed to be energy independent from the Middle East and coal liquification was a viable solution to this problem, because clean coal had technology drastically reduced emmissions from 30 years prior.

Now coal liquification is bad! It’s evil that kills all the children, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi said so and they run our House so it must be true! Man, Dem followers are like cult worshipers, soooo emotionally charged and stupid.


31 posted on 07/10/2008 3:56:08 PM PDT by quant5
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To: spacewarp

Yep, just mentioned the Siberian Flat. After millions of years the earth righted itself. Yes the climate is rising and yes, mans contributions are .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the process so I guess we all must die off so nature can takes it course and the ruling elite can govern that a million years from now also.


32 posted on 07/10/2008 3:59:51 PM PDT by quant5
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To: Entrepreneur; Defendingliberty; WL-law; Genesis defender; proud_yank; FrPR; enough_idiocy; ...
 




Beam me to Planet Gore !

33 posted on 07/10/2008 4:20:25 PM PDT by steelyourfaith
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