Bush signs spy bill and draws lawsuit (ACLU and "Journalist" don't like the law)

Yahoo ^ | 7/10/2008 | Randall Mikkelsen/Reuters

[FFranco]

You are So right. Today, America and the American people are facing one of the greatest threats in their history. The Constitution is not a suicide pact. We can willingly give up a few of our liberties to help our government protect us from the barbarians at the gate.

[Trajan88]

if the ACLU is ticked... then it is a good thing.

[vanishing liberty]

Before the terrorists, it was the communists. Someone is always out to get us. Obviously you trust the government more than I do.

[Cboldt]

-- We can willingly give up a few of our liberties to help our government protect us from the barbarians at the gate. --

At the gate? You are too protective of your rights. The barbarians are IN OUR COUNTRY. The blokes who did the 9/11 job weren't out of country, they were in country. Surely you can't think that warrants are required to snoop when the terrorist threat is present in our homeland. The constitution is not a suicide pact.

[vanishing liberty]

“If you’re not talking to terrorist then you have nothing to worry about unless you’re naturally paranoid then you probably worry all the time anyway.”

Okay, so I’m paranoid. So were the guys who wrote the Bill of Rights. They just didn’t trust the government very much. It doesn’t have a very good track record when it comes to abusing its powers to spy on people, does it?

[Retain Mike]

NSA discovers imminent homeland threats from international communications involving one U.S. based party. Primary concern for detecting and preventing another 9/11 is over 200 billion minutes per year of calls between people here and in other countries. Also, NSA monitors greater volumes of entirely foreign communications. Self-proclaimed experts who say NSA computers operate from key words and routinely entrap calls among innocents overseas or across town speak nonsense. If calls average 10 minutes, a group of gifted, dedicated, eccentric professionals apply science and art to identify a handful of meaningful leads, covering terrorism and a multitude of other vital national security concerns, from background noise of 60 – 100 billion calls per year. The volume, velocity and variety of communications, means leads representing serious and continuing threats to our homeland can be so perishable they require immediate and continuous analysis. The President uses his Constitutional and statutory authority to authorize proceeding without warrant, because professional analysts we rely upon, judge a fleeting opportunity appeared to detect or prevent an attack. However, debate precludes realistic civil liberty and national security discussions.

Media and Democrat rhetoric uses the term “American”, but never “U.S. person”. Intelligence bills never use “American”, but the term “U.S. person”, which defines the party mentioned in laws governing intelligence. Should Osama bin Laden join 10 million plus illegal aliens utilizing myriad infiltration opportunities, he becomes legally protected as a ‘U.S. person”.

This country suffered a devastating civil liberties assault on 9/11, because the Constitution requires an invincible society within which freedoms exist. The first responsibility of federal government branches is to consider Alexander Hamilton’s admonition that power to defend our country exist without limitation, providing national defenses capable of thwarting dangers as well as responding to attacks. Robust intelligence gathering is inseparable from effective warfare, and inseparable from the 2001 authorization “to use all necessary and appropriate force”.

Critical counterterrorism intelligence measures have been degraded from the Terrorist Surveillance Program of 2005. New York Times provided priceless incites to terrorists for identifying operational vulnerabilities. Democrats feigned legislative and intelligence unawareness, and fabricated complacency about nuclear/biological/chemical warfare potentials. President Bush abandoned traditional Commander in Chief “warrantless” authority for archaic, dysfunctional FISA court pronouncements.

We must appreciate threats balanced with civil liberties using Hamilton’s vision of capabilities to withstand unforeseen perils. We cannot tolerate enemies exploiting our freedoms to establish a legal conduit through which to move personnel and material for a savage war against us.

Below is a link to General Michael Hayden’s remarks to the National Press Club on 1/23/06. The public should never received such extensive information on NSA activities. Such information should have remained limited to select members of Congress and the Executive branch. Our national security has been changed into a minor political prop.

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2006/01/hayden012306.html

[goldstategop]

The anti-America Crowd doesn't like the idea the U.S is going to watch Al Qaeda's communications. Heck, even Obama thought the measure was important for our security.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[goldstategop]

Someone should clue in Anthony Romero and the ACLU. The law is called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. You don't have to look beyond the law's title to see whom the government intends to wiretap. And that can be done only with the approval of special courts that handle national security issues. No Americans' privacy will be affected unless they spy on behalf of a foreign power. DUH

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[tobyhill]

Give me the examples of the violations?
It's easy to say the Government doesn't have a very good track record because the MSM repeats over and over their perceived single violation but with over 50 million communications per day I honestly can't say they have a bad track record.
Out of everyone that has claimed the Government has violated their rights no one has had proof of it.

[goldstategop]

Its called protecting sources and methods of information. Those are things we wisely shouldn't share with the enemy. A free society has of necessity to rely on covert means to protect itself from those who would destroy it. In a perfect world, no surveillance of foreign communications would ever be necessary. But since we don't live in one, its absolutely critical we know what the enemy's plans are. We were in the dark about 9/11. This law helps our government to prevent and intercept another stealth attack upon our country. The larger point the ACLU misses is that freedom is and cannot be absolute and the Constitution is not a suicide pact.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[goldstategop]

Those apply only to criminal offenses. Nothing in the Constitution says the government may not act secretly against our enemies and the courts have recognized the President is delegated the conduct of foreign affairs and national security and wherever possible in regards to the conduct of those affairs, the courts defer to executive guidance. That's the way its been for much of American history.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[iThinkBig]

Nice. That was a good solid laugh. We laugh because it is funny and we laugh because it is true. Delusion and denial are part of our human nature accelerated at times out of boredom or outright despair.

Those that deny that flies exist get maggots infested into there skin, and then must leave public site forever humiliated. These flies also convince the mental dwarves that flies don’t bite they only plant dung, germs and maggots on you so it’s fine to do nothing about everything. It is this effect that must be countered most, time for way more Internet ads to get the Republican message out there and those who are conservative to walk-the-walk instead of talk-the-talk.

PS - I could have wrote a book on that analogy :)

[Cboldt]

-- The law is called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. You don't have to look beyond the law's title to see whom the government intends to wiretap. -- . Anybody who might possess foreign intelligence is a suspect, and plenty of them live in the US. Some of them are probably Freepers. Terrorists adopt all sorts of disguises. Nobody can be trusted. Especially not the courts. That's why the people have to support warrantless surveillance. The constitution isn't a suicide pact.

[goldstategop]

Exactly. The press and civil society play a role in keeping our country both free and safe. Civil liberties are important but they must be balanced with the need to keep our country secure. Without a country that can effectively deter its enemies, none of the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution have meaning. The ACLU overlooks the fact that if you're dead, the Bill Of Rights becomes redundant.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[Xenophon450]

"Nobody can be trusted."

Even the people conducting the wiretaps without warrants?

[iThinkBig]

You have to come up with a big new American Safety Union, fund it, advertise it to the public for a year with content and why our government is failing (gridlock from our own internal axis of evil) hire tons of lawyers and researchers whom compile dozens of lawsuits to be filed over a six month period. Repeat as necessary and the other side goes broke and can’t focus on filing lawsuits every public figure whom gives a damn and knows we are at war. How else do you beat the communists ;)

I keep telling the Republican leadership I am great at propoganda, but really guys in gov stopping by, you must put more loot in Internet media and blogging =0=

[Cboldt]

-- if you're dead, the Bill Of Rights becomes redundant. --

And as long as the government protects its subjects from being harmed, the BoR is unnecessary.

[antiRepublicrat]

I think we can depend on our government officials and employees of the communication companies not to engage in any inappropriate snooping, even if they can do it without warrants.

LOL! Best laugh all day. Thanks.

[Cboldt]

"Nobody can be trusted."
Even the people conducting the wiretaps without warrants?

Good point. Those folks are from the government, and can be trusted.

[antiRepublicrat]

The constitution is not a suicide pact.

That is a good quote to remember. Another good one: Is it worth destroying it in order to save it?