Posted on 07/10/2008 7:36:59 PM PDT by tobyhill
I trust about 10 total people but they include the current President and Vice President, 6 Senators and about 2 in Congress. All are Republican and acted conservative which if we include Christian it means waging war to win, never a popular choice and protection such as eavsdropping of the enemy.
Does the ACLU or this ‘tarded Congress never read WWII and why we actually won? Radar, spies and the atom bomb. The objective (for all of you dumb Democrats whom are reading this) is to get all the information on the enemy while we all shut up and protect OUR information. An Arab Islamist getting the bomb and using it on an American city an issue? 911? Hello? Think in WWII many private companies assisted in the development of advance aircraft. Were they evil, pirates conspiring with an out of control government. You Dems, your lack of common sense and power grabs get more Americans killed then all of the GI’s in entire Iraq affair. You Dems make me now. You had a point in the late 1950’s... What happened?!?!
As far as I can throw them.
I am not sure the founders wanted to protect criminals with the Fourth Amendment, the goal was to protect innocent citizens and resident aliens from government fishing expeditions and harassment, protecting criminals was a necessary side effect.
Secrecy is so that the enemy doesn’t know that they are being watched.
The govt doesn’t spy on whoever it wishes. It has basic logical targets though sometimes there are name problems. There are almost always a record. If the person caught in a surveillance operation is not involved, their name should be expunged, or noted that this is not the person they thought they were searching for (same name, similar characteristics. Would prevent future confusion and problems).
BESIDES, WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE ANYWAY. Surveillance would be redundant.
Besides, why worry if you don’t have anything to hide?
You just aren't patriotic enough. You probably see black helicopters and wear a tinfoil beanie too. If the government says a program of surveilling the public is so important that it shouldn't be revealed to the public, that ought to cause you to have more trust, especially after the terrorist attacks of the DC snipers, 9/11, and Oklahoma City.
What, the government doesn't get to spy on its selected targets? Shit! I thought the point of being in the government was to be able to spy on whoever you are suspicious of. Are those the logical targets with name problems?
Not to break your bubble, but the terrorist threat is going to outlast those 10 - and the government power to snoop on your ass is going to outlast the terrorist threat.
You know, you’re right. I’m sure if Barak Hussein Obama gets in office, everyone here will be ecstatic about him using this and possibly want him to go even further...for the sake of security of course.
My hunch is Senator Obama is unelectable for a mixed bag of reasons. But no matter, the urge of government to care for its caged subjects is persistent.
The Republican Party is unequivocally and unanimously in endorsement of conducting surveillance without court oversight. Half the Democrats agree. Was it Firesign Theater on the "10 billion flies can't be wrong, shit tastes good" observation?
Surveillance State is here (has been for quite awhile). Long live Surveillance State!
“. In a perfect world, no surveillance of foreign communications would ever be necessary. But since we don’t live in one, its absolutely critical we know what the enemy’s plans are. We were in the dark about 9/11. This law helps our government to prevent and intercept another stealth attack upon our country.”
I have no problem with surveillance of foreign communications. We were doing it long before Bush took office, but following the FISA law. Bush has yet to make a convincing argument that national security will be better protected without FISA constraints. FISA allows the government to eavesdrop without a warrant for a reasonable period of time. No leads or evidence would be missed. But the government wanted the ability to spy with no record or oversight. Why? As far as protecting sources and methods, there is no evidence that FISA courts have ever leaked such information. Bush has never even mentioned that as a reason.
“I trust about 10 total people but they include the current President and Vice President, 6 Senators and about 2 in Congress.”
I don’t want to rain on your parade, but the story is that the President and Vice President are on the way out. Do you trust Obama?
” The objective (for all of you dumb Democrats whom are reading this) is to get all the information on the enemy while we all shut up and protect OUR information.”
And why couldn’t this be done within the bounds of
FISA?
“Give me the examples of the violations?”
“The NSA, working with British intelligence, begins secretly intercepting and reading millions of telegraph messages between US citizens and international senders and recipients. The clandestine program, called Operation Shamrock and part of a larger global surveillance network collectively known as Echelon (see April 4, 2001 and Before September 11, 2001), begins shortly after the end of World War II, and continues through 1975, when it is exposed by the “Church Committee,” the Senate investigation of illegal activities by US intelligence organizations (see April, 1976). [Telepolis, 7/25/2000] The program actually predates the NSA, originating with the Armed Forces Security Agency (AFSA) then continuing when that turned into NSA (see 1952). [Pensito Review, 5/13/2006] The program operates in tandem with Project Minaret (see 1967-1975). Together, the two programs spy on both foreign sources and US citizens, especially those considered “unreliable,” such as civil rights leaders and antiwar protesters, and opposition figures such as politicians, diplomats, businessmen, trades union leaders, non-government organizations like Amnesty International, and senior officials of the Catholic Church. The NSA receives the cooperation of such telecommunications firms as Western Union, RCA, and ITT. [Telepolis, 7/25/2000] (Those companies are never required to reveal the extent of their involvement with Shamrock; on the recommendations of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and presidential chief of staff Dick Cheney, in 1975 President Ford extends executive privilege to those companies, precluding them from testifying before Congress.) [Pensito Review, 5/13/2006] In the 1960s, technological advances make it possible for computers to search for keywords in monitored messages instead of having human analysts read through all communications. In fact, the first global wide-area network, or WAN, is not the Internet, but the international network connecting signals intelligence stations and processing centers for US and British intelligence organizations, including the NSA, and making use of sophisticated satellite systems such as Milstar and Skynet. (The NSA also builds and maintains one of the world’s first e-mail networks, completely separate from public e-mail networks, and highly secret.) At the program’s height, it operates out of a front company in Lower Manhattan code-named LPMEDLEY, and intercepts 150,000 messages a month. In August 1975, NSA director Lieutenant General Lew Allen testifies to the House of Representatives’ investigation of US intelligence activities, the Pike Committee (see January 29, 1976), that “NSA systematically intercepts international communications, both voice and cable.” He also admits that “messages to and from American citizens have been picked up in the course of gathering foreign intelligence,” and acknowledges that the NSA uses “watch lists” of US citizens “to watch for foreign activity of reportable intelligence interest.” [Telepolis, 7/25/2000] The Church Committee’s final report will will call Shamrock “probably the largest government interception program affecting Americans ever undertaken.” [Church Committee, 4/23/1976] Shortly after the committee issues its report, the NSA terminates the program. Since 1978, the NSA and other US intelligence agencies have been restrained in their wiretapping and surveillance of US citizens by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (see 1978). Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, who will become the NSA’s director in 1977, and who testifies before the Church Committee as director of Naval Intelligence, will later say that he worked actively to help pass FISA: “I became convinced that for almost anything the country needed to do, you could get legislation to put it on a solid foundation. There was the comfort of going out and saying in speeches, ‘We don’t target US citizens, and what we do is authorized by a court.’” [Pensito Review, 5/13/2006] Shamrock is considered unconstitutional by many US lawmakers, and in 1976 the Justice Department investigates potential criminal offenses by the NSA surrounding Shamrock. Part of the report will be released in 1980; that report will confirm that the Shamrock data was used to further the illegal surveillance activities of US citizens as part of Minaret. [Telepolis, 7/25/2000]”
http://www.cdt.org/wiretap/wiretap_overview.html
When will we see this headline?
“ACLU Files Lawsuit and Draws Jail Time”
Your statement suggests you don't really think of the Commies or the terrorists as real.
I think all the terrorists and commies who try to kill us should be killed, they and their running dog lackeys in fact.
The Democrats are more concerned with your smoking habits in your own home than in the activities of foreign terrorists trying to murder all of us.
Time to stand up for the Constitution by throwing out the Democrats, punishing those of them who've gone over to the enemy, and tracking down enemy agents inside the country, or wherever we can find them.
Sounds perfect to me. That, BTW, is how to catch enemy agents.
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