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Hill Aides to Test M4 Alternatives
Military.com ^ | July 11, 2008 | Christian Lowe

Posted on 07/11/2008 5:24:57 AM PDT by DJ Taylor

In a move that could ruffle the feathers of an Army command that views the Colt Defense-built M4 as the best carbine in the world, a select group of top senate staffers is gathering today to look at what could be the future of the military's standard assault rifle.

About 30 legislative aides have signed up to attend a July 11 demonstration at Marine Corps Base Quantico, just outside Washington, D.C., that will feature weapons from various manufacturers vying to end the reign of the M16 and M4 as the U.S. military's most fielded personal weapon.

The range day is intended to help familiarize key lawmakers with possible alternatives to the M16 and M4 once the exclusive contract with Colt Defense of West Hartford, Conn., ends in the summer of 2009, a senior senate aide told Military.com.

(Excerpt) Read more at military.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; m16; m4; miltech
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To: DJ Taylor
OOPS, I just realized that you said MILITARY leadership rather than congressional leadership. But my comment still holds. Senior officers are ALL looking for that high paying Beltway Bandit job after retirement and that makes them vulnerable to collusion. And I'm STILL available. It will take an extensive sampling of available alternatives and a couple thousand test fire rounds each. Also, I get to KEEP all the samples.
61 posted on 07/11/2008 4:03:02 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: SJSAMPLE
More accurate.
More modular.
More ergonomic.

More carbon in the chamber.

62 posted on 07/11/2008 5:08:56 PM PDT by glorgau
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To: glorgau
I am a rookie on the subject, I admit. I own tricked out Ruger mini’s shooting cheapo Wolf ammo at Tannerites and think that is great. However I do like this as a concept, and as a matter of fact, want one for my birthday;
The Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR
http://www.bushmaster-acr.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magpul_Masada
63 posted on 07/11/2008 5:41:08 PM PDT by Wildbill22
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To: Joe Brower
To use Hillary Sniper Rounds ?
64 posted on 07/11/2008 6:26:45 PM PDT by 1066AD
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To: ctdonath2

It’s not just a catchy old saw. It’s the truth. 1960’s direct blowback technology is just stupid when HK, LWRC, FN, etc all have piston driven operating rod systems that are far superior.

And trust me, it’s NOT well liked in the field. In the middle of a firefight, in dusty conditions like in Iraq and Afghanistan, you don’t have time to sit down and do a nice little cleaning.

For $400 a piece HK will sell upper receivers for the M4 based on the HK 416 (a damn fine weapon) that will fit all of them NOW.

I don’t know of anyone that would argue a direct blowback system is superior to a piston driven one. People only argue that it’s “good enough”. Not better.

Well why the hell are we staking our troops’ lives in the field on something that is second best and not the best?

Why would Delta switch to the HK 416 instead of the M4? And if you don’t like buying from the Germans, LWRC makes a very nice system as well.


65 posted on 07/11/2008 6:39:49 PM PDT by Rammer
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To: SJSAMPLE

I have.

But hey, if a Studebaker got Granpa down to the corner and back, then why bother spending money on car with new technology?


66 posted on 07/11/2008 6:48:24 PM PDT by Rammer
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To: Rammer
It is not a direct blowback system. It is a direct gas impingement system. A direct blowback system is unlocked but the M16 is a locked breech system in which the gas is directed directly to the unlocking mechanism.

I thing this system was first used on the Swedish Llungman. It worked fine on that rifle and it, like the M16 is known for it's accuracy. That piston system invented by John Browning in the 19th century is reliable but certainly not newer.

67 posted on 07/11/2008 7:35:23 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: DJ Taylor
If you hit a target in the right place (with the 5.56mm), you'll stop him, Army leaders argue.

I'll bet a hit just about any place with a 30-06 or .308 would take an adversary down. Might not kill him, but he would go down.

68 posted on 07/11/2008 8:01:22 PM PDT by Vinnie (You're Nobody 'Til Somebody Jihads You)
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To: Perdogg
Replace the the 5.56mm with the 6.5mm X 39mm grendel.

YES,Yes

69 posted on 07/11/2008 8:02:28 PM PDT by Vinnie (You're Nobody 'Til Somebody Jihads You)
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To: Vinnie
"I'll bet a hit just about any place with a 30-06 or .308 would take an adversary down. Might not kill him, but he would go down.

If a deer hunter said, "I'll bet a hit just about any place with a 30-06 or .308 would take a deer down," you'd right away see the fallacy in his argument, so why can't you apply the same logic in this discussion?

The same rules apply whether you're shooting two legged or four legged animals; shot placement is all important. There is no "magic" bullet that will take down an animal if it is not hit in a vital area. Soldiers who are also hunters know this and place their shots accordingly.

70 posted on 07/12/2008 6:02:14 AM PDT by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: DJ Taylor

A leg shot or arm shot from a 30-06 would put the man down ,IMHO. The wound would be that traumatic.
He might not stay down or die immediately but he would be incapacitated.

At Mogadishu, soldiers reported hitting men with 2-3 solid shots and the perps appeared unaffected.


71 posted on 07/12/2008 6:44:09 AM PDT by Vinnie (You're Nobody 'Til Somebody Jihads You)
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To: glorgau

Dirty chambers haven’t been an issue since the standard powder was changed in Vietnam.


72 posted on 07/12/2008 10:14:12 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: Blood of Tyrants

The M193 and M885 rounds fragment MORE than the comparable 7.62mm ball.

If the 5.56mm round would go through them “like an icepick”, the 7.62mm counterpart would do the same.

5.56mm fragments very well, nothing like an icepick, in deep tissue and bone. Extremity hits have never been depandable in ANY infantry rifle cartridge.


73 posted on 07/12/2008 10:17:00 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: Rammer

That old, unwarranted comparison would work if there was an infantry rifle option that would bridge a gap alluded to in the “Studebaker” scenario.

There isn’t such a weapon.
After 100 years, we’re still working with the same basic cartridge design.
After 50+ years, we’re still working with the assault rifle platform in varying forms.

There’s simply no weapon out there that makes enough of a revolutionary (even evolutionary) leap to warrant the change.

If a weapon system were developed that significantly increased hit probability, lethality and firepower, I’d back it in a second. There simply ISN’T. Numerous trials, especially the ACR project of the 1980s, have proven this so.


74 posted on 07/12/2008 10:21:51 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: Rammer

“direct blowback”

That statement, by itself, makes me wonder.


75 posted on 07/12/2008 10:23:13 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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Comment #76 Removed by Moderator


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