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MasterCard joins S&P 500, replaces GM in S&P 100 (Dow to drop GM next?)
Reuters ^ | July 10, 2008

Posted on 07/11/2008 6:32:32 AM PDT by jalisco555

NEW YORK, July 10 (Reuters) - MasterCard Inc (MA.N: Quote, Profile, Research), the world's second-largest credit card network, will replace Ace Ltd (ACE.N: Quote, Profile, Research) in the Standard & Poor's 500 .SPX, and will also replace General Motors Corp (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) in the S&P 100 index .OEX of major blue-chip companies, S&P said on Thursday.

S&P said it is dropping Ace from its flagship index because the insurer is reincorporating in Switzerland, rendering it ineligible for including in S&P U.S. indexes.

MasterCard shares have risen more than sixfold since the Purchase, New York-based company went public in May 2006. GM shares, meanwhile, have this year fallen to levels not seen since the 1950s.

S&P did not in a statement explain why it dropped GM from the S&P 100.

(Excerpt) Read more at uk.reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Front Page News; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: dow; generalmotors; gm; sp
The big news here is not Mastercard being added to the S&P 100 but GM being dropped. There is genuine fear about whether GM has a future. I've been flamed on previous threads when I suggested GM might go Chapter 11 but I'm not the only one who worries about this.
1 posted on 07/11/2008 6:32:32 AM PDT by jalisco555
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To: jalisco555

GM has some real serious problems. They are going to have to abandon Michigan if they are to return to any sense of profitability.

Leave Michigan, and set up shop in “right to work” states without unions.


2 posted on 07/11/2008 6:36:00 AM PDT by Ouderkirk (I will not vote for Obama not because he is black, but because he is RED)
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To: jalisco555

You’re right. GM is doomed.

This isn’t ‘fear’: GM has no future. It can’t afford its debts and its position gets worse every year.


3 posted on 07/11/2008 6:37:03 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: agere_contra
You’re right. GM is doomed.

Thirty years of bad management can kill even the strongest company.

4 posted on 07/11/2008 6:41:25 AM PDT by jalisco555 ("My 80% friend is not my 20% enemy" - Ronald Reagan)
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To: agere_contra

A quick look at Stansberry’s reminds me that GM owns 49% of one of the largest mortgage companies in America, GMAC. Which is going the same way as Freddie Mac’s.

GM aren’t just being dragged down by their unions and their infrastructure: they own 49% of a heavily leveraged piece of debt. The only things GM have going for them is sentiment and a stuttering SUV market.


5 posted on 07/11/2008 6:43:09 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: jalisco555
I suggested GM might go Chapter 11 but I'm not the only one who worries about this

Not to worry -- GM may very likely slide to the edge of bankruptcy, but the goobermint will ride to the rescue with a bajillion taxpayer dollars to save the failing company.

6 posted on 07/11/2008 6:46:02 AM PDT by Babu
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To: Babu
Not to worry -- GM may very likely slide to the edge of bankruptcy, but the goobermint will ride to the rescue with a bajillion taxpayer dollars to save the failing company.

That, of course, is GM's plan. Huge tax credits for "green" vehicles, govt. guaranteed loans, tariffs on imports, etc. It'll happen if Obama is elected but it won't be enough.

7 posted on 07/11/2008 6:53:23 AM PDT by jalisco555 ("My 80% friend is not my 20% enemy" - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Ouderkirk
Leave Michigan, and set up shop in “right to work” states without unions.

I've heard that even if they open up in a Right to Work state, their current contracts require them to esentially act like they are still under union rules.

I think the only way GM will prosper again is to declare bankruptcy to be able to dump the union contracts. They are a huge lesson to companies to always fund any pension and medical plan with current dollars rather than plan on being a bigger company later on and having money available to fund today's promises tomorrow. GM made a lot of promises over the past 40 years that they have no way of paying for today.

8 posted on 07/11/2008 6:55:24 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Whale oil: the renewable biofuel for the 21st century.)
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To: KarlInOhio

“GM made a lot of promises over the past 40 years that they have no way of paying for today.”

Yes they did in a pro-union piss hole democrat environment.

GM needs to go Chapter 11, bust all the union contracts and hire employees that get paid only what they are worth.


9 posted on 07/11/2008 7:06:05 AM PDT by threeoeight
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To: KarlInOhio
I think the only way GM will prosper again is to declare bankruptcy to be able to dump the union contracts.

I've read elsewhere that that's not the case. C11 won't void union contracts (someone correct me if I'm wrong). The real advantage of Chapter 11 is that it would allow GM to get out of it's contracts with it's dealers. These contracts, and state franchise laws, prevents GM from eliminating dead brands like Buick and Pontiac and trimming it's excessively large dealer network. Remember, it cost over $1 billion to shut down Olds because they had to pay off all the dealers. Under Chapter 11 that wouldn't be necessary. It's the only way to rationalize the company structure.

10 posted on 07/11/2008 7:07:39 AM PDT by jalisco555 ("My 80% friend is not my 20% enemy" - Ronald Reagan)
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To: KarlInOhio
They are a huge lesson to companies to always fund any pension and medical plan with current dollars rather than plan on being a bigger company later on and having money available to fund today's promises tomorrow. GM made a lot of promises over the past 40 years that they have no way of paying for today.

Sounds like social security and medicare.

11 posted on 07/11/2008 7:08:50 AM PDT by Huck (A Teddy Roosevelt wannabe is better than a Che Guevara wannabe.)
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To: jalisco555

I wonder why they removed GM before F. Ford has 169 Billion in debt while GM has 44 Billion in debt. You read that right B as in Billion.


12 posted on 07/11/2008 7:10:13 AM PDT by Orange1998
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To: Orange1998
I wonder why they removed GM before F.

Ford, unlike GM, has a new management team that seems to understand the problems they face and has a plan to deal with them. The company may not survive but at least they recognize reality and are the likeliest of the (formerly) Big 3 to be around five years from now (Chrysler is doomed).

13 posted on 07/11/2008 7:13:28 AM PDT by jalisco555 ("My 80% friend is not my 20% enemy" - Ronald Reagan)
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To: jalisco555

I differ, GM will be around longer than Ford. You can not compete on level ground with 4 times the debt.


14 posted on 07/11/2008 7:34:23 AM PDT by Orange1998
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To: Orange1998
I differ, GM will be around longer than Ford. You can not compete on level ground with 4 times the debt.

Both companies are in terrible trouble. At least Ford is no longer in denial. But the debt load is certainly horrible.

15 posted on 07/11/2008 7:40:41 AM PDT by jalisco555 ("My 80% friend is not my 20% enemy" - Ronald Reagan)
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To: jalisco555
What's the old saying? "Where GM goes, so goes the nation"
The big news here is not Mastercard being added to the S&P 100 but GM being dropped.
Or put another way. A manufacturing giant is being replaced with a credit card.
16 posted on 07/11/2008 8:24:06 AM PDT by lewislynn (What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
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To: Orange1998
You can not compete on level ground with 4 times the debt.

Toyota weighs in at ~ $ 81 Billion in short and long term debt.

If a company has assets to back their debt, and those assets are generating more cash than servicing the debt consumes, then having more debt isn't necessarily such a bad thing.

Perhaps a better metric would be shareholder equity - what the owners retain after liabilities are subtracted from assets, and which way that is trending over time. Ford: $7.1B (growing), GM -$41B (holding. kinda-sorta).

Past performance not indicative of future performance. Anyone thinking of investing should check first with their doctor. Women who are pregnant, children under the age of 12, and Seniors with heart conditions should avoid Wall Street.

17 posted on 07/11/2008 8:29:26 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: lewislynn
Or put another way. A manufacturing giant is being replaced with a credit card.

It's market cap is around 10% of what it was 8 years ago. Not so giant any more.

18 posted on 07/11/2008 8:30:16 AM PDT by jalisco555 ("My 80% friend is not my 20% enemy" - Ronald Reagan)
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To: jalisco555

The DJIA might drop GM if it gets below $5.


19 posted on 07/11/2008 8:31:15 AM PDT by RightWhale (I will veto each and every beer)
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To: Hoplite
Book Value on Wall Street is all hot air. With all that aside just being in Michigan is enough to put you out of business.
20 posted on 07/11/2008 8:46:44 AM PDT by Orange1998
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To: RightWhale

Below 5 is a sure fire way to get deleted.


21 posted on 07/11/2008 8:47:44 AM PDT by Orange1998
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To: Orange1998

Can the DJIA leave a stock on the Index when it is delisted?


22 posted on 07/11/2008 8:59:01 AM PDT by RightWhale (I will veto each and every beer)
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To: RightWhale

Usually a stock is deleted from the S&P 500 before its delisted from the DJIA. Although Calpine followed weeks after losing its place on S&P.


23 posted on 07/11/2008 9:28:03 AM PDT by Orange1998
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To: Orange1998; RightWhale
While most of the Dow Jones indexes use objective, rules-based processes for the selection of components, the Dow Jones Averages are an exception. Their components are selected at the discretion of the editors of The Wall Street Journal. There are no pre-determined criteria except that components should be established U.S. companies that are leaders in their industries; however, companies considered for inclusion in the averages are subjected to rigorous analysis before a decision is made.
Source

Note that Eastman Kodak was delisted from the DJIA back in April of 2004, when its stock price was $25 and its market cap was $7.1 Billion.

24 posted on 07/11/2008 9:38:04 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

Don’t know if this makes any difference:

Wikip:

As of December 13, 2007, the Wall Street Journal is owned by Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp.


25 posted on 07/11/2008 10:07:43 AM PDT by RightWhale (I will veto each and every beer)
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To: threeoeight
GM needs to go Chapter 11, [snip] and hire employees that get paid only what they are worth.

I would expect my SALARY to go up then!

26 posted on 07/11/2008 11:23:47 AM PDT by Eddie01 (Freeper ID clue: I spy something blue and cold)
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To: jalisco555

btt


27 posted on 07/11/2008 2:24:22 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: Orange1998

These stock averages have a great scam going. After someone on the team breaks a leg and an arm you toss them off the team and replace them with a budding young superstar. Then after the rookie starts getting some hits you measure team batting average to prove what a great squad you had for the past year!

The historical measures of the Dow and other indexes overstate gains and understate losses by this trick. So the next time a “financial advisor” con artist tells you to invest in stocks based on historical returns ask him if he would like to be dropped off the team.

;-)


28 posted on 07/12/2008 3:20:46 AM PDT by cgbg (For rent until after the end of this miserable election.)
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