Posted on 07/13/2008 9:25:13 AM PDT by 21stCenturyFreeThinker
Schools may not strip-search students for drugs based on an unverified tip, a federal appeals court ruled Friday.
Overturning two other rulings, the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals said an assistant principal at an Arizona middle school violated the constitutional rights of a 13-year-old by ordering her to be strip-searched. He thought the honor student had prescription-strength ibuprofen; she did not.
The 6-5 ruling by the San Francisco-based court reinstated a lawsuit that a divided three-judge circuit panel threw out last year. The lawsuit was brought by the parents of Savana Redding, who was an eighth-grader at Safford Middle School in southeastern Arizona when the assistant principal ordered her out of math class and into his office to investigate whether she had violated a school policy that prohibited students from bringing medication -- even over-the-counter medication -- to school.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Some of the dissent.
Judge Michael Daly Hawkins, joined by Chief Judge Alex Kozinski and Judge Carlos T. Bea, dissented on the grounds that the search was constitutional.Hawkins wrote: "School officials deserve the greatest latitude when responding to behavior that threatens the health and safety of students or teachers . . .
"When school officials reasonably believe that a student is carrying a weapon or harmful drugs, it will rarely be unreasonable for them to do what they can to neutralize the danger."
Although ibuprofen is mild, "that does not mean it is never harmful," Hawkins wrote.
And you sit there and take it.
put your paws on my kid and you’re gonna hafta take your chances with me.
Yes I agree...do not want school officials searching kids without cause.
So many pervs in our schools...and in some states (like Florida)....school workers are protected from some of the predator/child abuse laws that most Floridians have to abide to.
Had a simialr situation w my teenage sister. Some school wonk thought she was taking illegal drugs. Even after the sherriff’s deputy decided that the school wonk’s claim was unfounded....the school official persisted.
Although ibuprofen is mild, "that does not mean it is never harmful," Hawkins wrote.Of course nose picking is not "never harmful". What draconian measure will he support to combat this dangerous practice?
If there is the will to alter consciousness there will always be a way.
Prohibition CREATES black market murdering bootleggers. Prohibition does NOT work, it makes things like this happen.
I received an unverified tip that Judge Hawkins is in the habit of hiding weapons or harmful drugs in his rectum while in Court.
Some 290 pound police officer, preferably one from the San Francisco P.D., really needs to check out that tip in order to neutralize the danger.
“...violated a school policy that prohibited students from bringing medication...”
Imagine their chagrin if they’d found some school-supplied birth control pills...
Agreed....
When I was a kid, I had headaches a lot and carried OTC pills all the time.
I can't imagine being a kid in school these days, having to go to a nurse for constant headaches. I'm sure the school would begin some sort of inquisition when I simply suffered chronic sinus headaches.
I don't want kids strip searched but at the same time if one...say was thought to be hiding a gun I would want it taken away.I think what the court said is that ibuprofen is not a sufficient reason to do a strip search. A gun probably would be a sufficient reason.
The...I hate to call it an incident...but when that boy came to school with guns... the custodian took one away from him. He still ended up killing his principal with another. I think that justifies “putting paws” on someones kid. If a situation is not considered life threatening though call the parents. She wasn’t going to shoot anyone with a Motrin tablet.
“”that does not mean it is never harmful,””
Well, if that is the criterion, then they can strip search if they suspect the student is carrying a pencil.
Just what the hell DID happen to this country, anyway?
The court was correct in that this search should not have taken place. The problem is that the court should never have been involved. The school board should be the first place where policy is set and if necessary the State government could proscribe district policy as California has done. Allowing the Courts to make our laws is asking for tyranny. Federal Judges are unelected, they issue edicts with no need for compromise, and they essentially forbid the people to ever have any influence over the decision again.
You want to strip search a child who might have a gun? Where would they put it? Up in her vagina? In another opening in her body? Underneath her breasts? You’ve got to be kidding me. There aren’t other ways to pat down someone for weapons without making them take off their clothes?
Reason #3067 why I homeschool.
The (th very seldom makes the right decision.
This time they did.
Yeah, I’d end up in jail right after I introduced myself and closed the assistant principal’s door.
School officials have no business putting their hands on any child. Not mine, not yours, not anyones.
If they have a suspicion of unlawful or unsafe behavior they should call the cops and the parents.
If the child is unruly he or she doesn’t belong there and should be removed.
Lastly, teachers should have no qualms about maintaining order in their classrooms. If the child misbehaves, remove him.
My .02
I'm quite sure how I feel about it. The idiot school nurse and administrative assistant to the jackass of an assistant principal should be fired. Kerry Wilson himself should go to jail for child abuse. The dissenting judges should themselves be disrobed, (down to their skivvies) and then evaluated by qualified mental health professionals.
I agree.
I tend to lean in the same direction as yourself - touch my kid and I'm gonna touch you and it'll hurt a lot. Unless they have a court order, they have no right to do this.
You didn’t read the rest of my post?
This should never have gone to court.
A few of this girl’s relatives should have explained to the school officials the error of their ways. Out in the woods behind the school. And then left them naked there in the middle of the day.
This can't be from the 9th circus. Impossible. We've been had. It's a joke. The onion?
If it were my daughter I'd settle things the same way they were administered.....very personally.
.....suppose I went around saying I was an emperor because some watery tart...
Go back 30+ years and that wouldn't have been sufficient reason. Heck, many schools had rifle teams. A couple of good friends of mine were on such a team at their high school. They would bring their rifles to school and place them in their lockers. After school, they would retrieve their weapon and head to the range with the team.
Bunch of power-hungry idiots running our governments today, and 'we the people' are too wussified to do anything about it.
There is a big difference between being 'frisked' for a gun and being "stripsearched" for pills......
I agree with that under normal circumstances but if you have a child that is in immediate danger to himself or others...poeple could be dead by the time the police arrive. I agreed that this situation was uncalled for but I don’t want teachers or principals so scared of liability that they do nothing though.
I posted that already.
You want to strip search a child who might have a gun? Where would they put it? Up in her vagina? In another opening in her body? Underneath her breasts? You’ve got to be kidding me. There aren’t other ways to pat down someone for weapons without making them take off their clothes?I was going to say that but I didn't want to get too far into the mechanics of the problem. I suppose someone could keep a small knife or razor blade (blade covered I hope) in the nether regions.
Practically the only reason to do this is for drugs. If they have enough evidence they should call the police and let them police take care of it.
but that might involve touching him ;')
I admire what you do tremedously but I think some of yall are going to the extreme here. I never said anything about body cavity searches and I don’t want kids stripped. My point was though that we shouldn’t have people so scared of touching a kid that they do nothing in a true emergency.
The main disagreement I have with the scope in the dissent is the balancing test. I don't give school officials that much judgment. They are officials of the state, and the strip search was the 2nd most intrusive one available, second to a body cavity search.
I'm with you !
You think too logically and sensibly about teachers being able to remove unruly/trouble making kids ;0) The local public primary school near where I live had a child bring a gun (thank God it was only a fake) to school (this GIRL was 8) in her bookbag to threaten another student. When the teacher found it, she called the office- no reply. She did what a good teacher would do- she got another teacher to watch her kids and she took the girl by the hand to go and find the Assistant Principal (the Principal was at a District meeting). When she found the AP she was on the phone and refused to deal with the child- even after the teacher interrupted her and told her the situation. The teacher left the child in the AP’s office and would not let her back in her classroom. The AP tried to force the teacher to let her back in, but the teacher stood her ground and demanded the girl’s parent come and get her. By the way, the girl only got 2 days suspension.
Put your paws on my kid and that was your last chance with me.
Doesn't appear that's the problem in this case, does it, but rather stupid and abusive adults taking full advantage of their power over a child to enforce some unknown and vague thing probably called "zero tolerance."
What happened to this little girl is nothing short of child abuse.
I have my own idea of zero tolerance. I can't tolerate child abusers whatever form they come in. This whole crew should be digging ditches, not in positions where they can humiliate and degrade a kid.
I agree ... but still ... I also agree they're not worthy of being a complete parenthetical.
If she wasn’t threatening anyone though...would it not be more reasonable to put it away, send her back to class, and give it back at the end of the day and tell her not to bring toys to school. That’s the way it used to be done.
If she wasn’t threatening anyone though...would it not be more reasonable to put it away, send her back to class, and give it back at the end of the day and tell her not to bring toys to school. That’s the way it used to be done.
So, here’s the thing of it.
People who preach “zero tolerance” have zero credibility with me. My kids were in public schools only because as a non-custodial parent I had no say in the matter. What I did do was to teach my kids:
1. Respect authority.
2. Don’t be stupid.
3. If you’ve followed rules 1 & 2, stand your ground.
This year the rules got tested when another student assaulted my daughter. She laid him out. The principal invoked the zero tolerance rule and suspended both of them even though my daughter was merely defending herself.
So far, no problem. The schools policies suck, but rules are rules and she was ready to accept the consequences of her actions.
Then the principal upped the ante. This huge man has my daughter alone in his office and says that he is going to search her. She shoved him away and ran out of the school. The principal expelled her, again citing (IMO misinterpreting the statute) their insipid zero tolerance rules.
As “frosting on the cake” they then turned her in as a truant. The courts issued a bench warrant for her arrest and detainment when she failed to go to a hearing where she would be ordered back to school.
My daughter ran away rather than be forced to go back to that place and that man.
I have a restraining order against me forbidding contact with the principal or the school, which is for the best because one of us would leave in a body bag.
Needless to say, I have little sympathy for the public school system or the half-wits who made them the way they are. My child was in immediate danger and the system failed her. I no longer care if teachers are scared - except of me. They ought to be...
IBUPROFUN???!!!! Even though the Appeals Court ruled correctly, the fact that absurd stuff like this goes on in government schools is yet anther reason to homeschool.
I’d wager everybody has some point at which they’d want the kid strip searched. There’s no such thing as principle anymore.
You’re right. And birth control pills, taken in excessive amounts as an attempt to force an abortion, can thus endanger a girl’s health. And they increase other health risks - because girls taking them are far more likely to be engaging in activity that results in STDs.
Typographical error. ‘(’ is the SHIFT KEY alternate of ‘9’.
Although now that you mention it :)
Libertarian ping! To be added or removed freepmail me or post a message here.
Only the police should be brought in to even think about strip searching a minor, if they truly think they have a weapon or illegal drugs. Even THEN — the police would be foolish and insane to strip search a minor outside of the presence of a parent or guardian. No parent in their right mind would consent to have their child strip searched without the advice of an attorney, I don’t care WHAT the circumstances. Situations as described are way too volatile and can get out of hand too quickly, with mess legal ramifications.
Homeschooling does have its privileges.
That sucks, I’m sorry to hear that.
I checked my kids’ school before they went and breathed a sigh of relief. There is zero tolerance for starting fights, but a kid is allowed to use reasonable and necessary force to protect himself. So mine could lay out their attackers and receive no punishment, but hitting them after they’re down isn’t allowed.
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