Posted on 07/14/2008 6:09:19 AM PDT by wolf78
Rising fuel prices, both in the U.S. and abroad, means that automakers can now offer similar engines in vehicles sold throughout the world. According to Automotive News, General Motors' next small car, the Chevrolet Cruze, will be offered with a new 1.4-liter force-fed four-banger, putting out between 120 and 140 horsepower and returning fuel mileage in the 40 mpg range.
(Excerpt) Read more at autoblog.com ...
Once again, the best and simplest option is right under the nose...cut both R&D and production costs and sell the same cars, with the same engines, etc. around the world.
DUH, GM!!!
what is the downside? Heavy wear and tear on a small engine?
I’ve seen some relatively small 4s with turbos last well over 100,000 miles with proper maintenance.
High gas prices will cause fewer births in future for the US, as cars won’t be made to carry families of five or six.
I don’t know what my family of five will do when the van is put out to pasture someday.
Nice. Now can we get this engine in something less boring looking?
Do you notice that GM and Chevy keep changing the names of their cars. Vega, Chevette, Nova, Cobalt, Cruze.
You get the impression that they are trying to make people forget their experiences with the older cars.
Civic and Corolla have been around for thity years.
I still think diesel is the way to go, if memory serves isn’t there almost 10X the energy in diesel fuel than in gasoline per volume?
what is the downside? Heavy wear and tear on a small engine?
.......................... Not if they use one made by Honda.
“what is the downside?”
Low torque. Not a biggie for most people.
No...it’s about 1.3x. But I agree that diesel engines are superior. They are also inherently fuel-flexible.
Wait right there! The SS Nova’s were outstanding and affordable street cars. Many came equipt with potent 350 / 396 and 454’s turning in low 13’s right off the dealer’s lot.
...as for the Vegas and Chevettes, never heard of them. (LOL)
“....returning fuel mileage in the 40 mpg range.”
Wondering if this estimated miles per gallon takes into account the Ethanol disadvantage? I blame Ethanol as I have discussed with disgust this issue with the pro’s, had the cars tuned, as well read much commentary here at FR that indicates Ethanol as the culprit as to why I’m not getting the fuel mileage touted by the Auto Manufacturer. IOW we are paying about $.60 per gallon more for the Ethanol I understand, getting less mpg because of Ethanol, therefore logic indicates that the Leftist mandated Ethanol is robbing me/us of lots of money. It’s also my understanding that Ethanol isn’t cutting it as an Environmental advantage either, plus it is burning up a major source of the food base not only for the U.S., but the World as well.
We’ve checked two of our three cars mileage recently (our most fuel efficient by Mfg. statements as well our own historical experience) by jotting down our odometer reading at fill up, then once again at next fill and simple division. We are consistantly getting in the neighborhood of 30% less than we used to get mileagewise with these cars we’ve had for a number of years.
I read commentary here at FR on other threads about how much it costs to fill the tank versus the neighbor etc., but never read about anybody actually checking their mileage. Perhaps I’ve missed those posts.
Worthy of the effort to check your mileage rather than depend upon what the mfg. of your cars tell you. BS is rampant not only in the U.S. anymore, but the entire World. BS is what fuels the Socialist culture that prevails today.
I realize I need to confirm these thoughts to some folks here with more clarity, but I don’t have the time this morning.
Rant off.
Yes. I owned a ‘66 396 rat motor Chevy. It got 8 miles to the gallon of premium gasoline.
LOL. I never thought of it that way. Nissan Maxima debuted in 1976 and my 99 is still running like brand new. Gets 29MPG at EPA conditions. A brand new accord gets the same thing.
I can think of many American models though: Mustang - '64, Corvette - '53, Town Car, Taurus, Explorer, Wrangler, F150, LeSabre
Buy your choice of any used SUV for a nickel a pound. Some dealers are not even taking them as trade-ins because the values are dropping so quickly. There are four on front lawns on my street.
I think it's silly, because if people buy a new "fuel saver" and actually run the numbers and consider newer excise taxes, insurnces, and finance charges, etc., if someone has a short commute, they'd lose on the deal. I saw the same thing in the so-called '70's "Crisis" and actually fell for it myself...I traded a Cadillac in for two Toyotas. I probably left the dealershop with the same tonnage, they were great little cars, and one lasted over 200,000 miles, but really, I lost money on the deal. Gas prices fell back down, and there I was with new tax and insurance bills and two payment books.
But as long as no one expects this to happen, you can get great deals on some of the big vehicles. I may buy one myself for local hardware trips.
Ethanol performs pretty well in a turbo charged engine, you know.
The LeSabre is long gone , along with the Catalina.
Ethanol additions dropped my MPG from 30 highway to 27. About 10%
I always tracked my MPG because it was a good diagnostic tool. If anything changed, it was time to look under the hood, or ask the OBD2 how the car is feeling.
You were doing well!
I am going to guess this new 1.4 L is Direct injected. The question is, it it a 4 or a 3 cylinder.
Unless my math is wrong, if you take a 2.2 DI Eco-Tec ( ergo the engine in the Soltice) and lop a jug off of it you end up in 1.4 territory.
BTW, The Volt display car had a 3 cyl. Eco-Tec... Hmmm... Anyone see a trend here?
It probably has good torque, though. Remember, “horses for show, torque for go”
Apparently an Opel with a Chevy front end, which is not all bad.
Cruze? Could they think of a more ghetto name for it. How about cr00z3
When I was growing up with five kids in my family, we had a Volkswagen Beetle and a Triumph TR6. Between the two cars, we did not have enough seatbelts for all seven of us.
But, back in those days you just packed them in. I remember one trip we had five in the Triumph.
I was a real sleeper. A Caprice with whitewalls, full hubcaps and complete resonator exhaust, white buckets and floor shift automatic. Under the hood; tube headers, mechanical lifters, full race cam and a big Carter carb.
That’s true with the chevy small cars. But not with their main products.they really have to get it right this time even if it means rebadging a toyota like the old geo prizm
I wouldn’t bet on that, Minivans are going nowhere... if you like crusing in style however the full size van is in most risk of disappearing as I know Ford and GM are debating bringing in their EURO van type vehicles similar to the dodge sprinter and killing the standard van as we know it.
I feel that GM would have a winner if they retool for a model duplicating the 1957 Bel Air.
Wildcat 400...Firebird...Cutlass...Tempest...442...
And, anyone remember the CanAm?
400 smallblock, GMs muscle car engine of choice for years.
Ethanol performs pretty well in a turbo charged engine, you know.
The two of our three cars that we mileage checked are both Turbo Charged 4 cylinder SAAB cars. One a 5 speed stick, the other an automatic trans. Former a 2001 year model, the latter a 1999 year model. Both formerly provided us 32 mpg, and 30 mpg respectively. Now 21.8, and 20.6 mpg respectively. Been to the pro’s as I’ve said in the previous post. The cars are in tune to proper specs.
The Pro’s I’ve mentioned are a single Volvo/SAAB auto clinic (not a chain) that is rated amongst the top 20 repair facilities across the Nation by AAA. I have to believe they know what the “H” they are doing. Besides we have had our cars serviced by them since 1988.
If it ain’t Ethanol, tell me if you can what it is.
The efficiencies of a Diesel engine over a gasoline engine are inherent. It is in the design of the cycle itself. The Diesel cycle is more efficient than the Otto (Gasoline engine) cycle.
You can futz around all you want with Gasoline engines to remove some of those inefficiencies, and in fact a well designed turbo can do nice things for it, but there are "pumping losses" associated with the Otto cycle (basically, the engine has to use energy to "suck" air into the combustion chamber), that the Diesel cycle does not have. Thats one reason that Diesel engines get such good gas mileage on the highways, they only use as much fuel as they need to keep the engine turning over. In a gasoline engine, there is a significant amount of energy used in pumping/sucking the air through the intake manifold restrictions(the throttle basically). Diesels have no throttle, they are controlled by the amount of fuel that is injected into them.
That, plus the fact that they run at much higher compression ratios, which means that they can extract more energy from the fuel they burn.
Poor timing? Improper boost? Wrong rear end?
Here’s our 401” SmallBlock Ford engine going through the paces:
http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd190/ELIMN8U/Engine%20Dyno/?action=view¤t=100_4105.flv
Yep, we took two week vacations, family of five in a '62 Ford Fairlane, and everyone had a great time.
Today if the little darlings don't each have their own reclining captains chair with personal a/c outlet and DVD/game terminal, they suffer the torments of the damned.
Whiny kids growing up to be whiny Americans.
...as for the Vegas and Chevettes, never heard of them. (LOL)
Don't forget the L-79 Nova SS. 350 horse 327 nicknamed the Giant-Killer because of its ability to knock-off big-block-powered competition.
I had a standard 327 that was modified to 400 hp when I was a teen. We got it insured as an economy car because that's how they were classed (even the SS versions came with a six-cylinder - SS was a trim package).
“I’ve seen some relatively small 4s with turbos last well over 100,000 miles with proper maintenance”
100,000 miles? That’s all you get? That’s NOTHING in today’s market.
100,000 miles - to me - is a “disposable car”.
Unless the new direct-injection engines can deliver 250,000+ miles (based on routine maintenence), they aren’t suitable for service, in my opinion.
100,000 miles is what OLD-technology cars got back in the fifties, if you were lucky.
My first new car was a 1979 Honda Accord (carbureted). It went 170,000 before I sold it, and bought my second, a....
1986 Honda Accord (carbureted). It went 192,000 before I sold it, and bought my third, a...
1993 Acura Integra (fuel injected). It went 300,000 before I sold it, never needed an engine rebuild, and still used hardly any oil when I let it go.
Unless GM can build a car with consumer expectations of that kind of longevity, they’re just building a 2009 version of the Vega....
- John
What model? Corvette, Chevelle, or land yacht?
I bought a 1992 Jeep Cherokee with the 4.0 six. It needs about $1,000 for it to be where I want it ($280 to just get it running again - computer). Paid cash. Am now trying to sell my 1 year old Elantra.
Funny I didn't put any down on it and it shows that private party value is more than I owe, so, I'm ahead of the game. It gets great mileage, but with payment, insurance, and fuel, it costs me between $445 and $470/month. The jeep will cost me between $190 and $200 for just gas and insurance... I can use the difference for something else, like corn on the cob.
I agree with that. I’m at 218,000 on my 15 year-old Honda Civic.
“Poor timing? Improper boost? Wrong rear end?”
Both cars!? Not even. I repeat my previous commentary:
“The Pro’s I’ve mentioned are a single Volvo/SAAB auto clinic (not a chain) that is rated amongst the top 20 repair facilities across the Nation by AAA. I have to believe they know what the “H” they are doing. Besides we have had our cars serviced by them since 1988.”
I’ll add to this that they are Swedish and speak Swedish as well are factory experienced and trained on these automobiles. The cars are OEM, not altered in anyway.
This week I will check mileage on our third SAAB which is a 9-5 six cylinder turbo automatic. I’ll followup this discussion if another thread about cars, or Ethanol allow a segue.
I rechecked mileage on the four cylinder cars first as this 9-5 will get less than I want to know about lol. (shaking head)
- 91 Integra, we got 341,000 miles, no drive train or body problems ever, other than timing chain (belt). Great Great auto.
You are absolutely right about 100k. And turbo-charging, from my experience, is a long term insidious problem.
My vote for diesel.
I'm trying to get over something that was trained into me. My dad has gone through more cars in a single year than some do in a lifetime.
I'm trying to unlearn that. So, to me 100,000 miles is a lot (given that I pack on between 7,500 and 8,500 a year - it would be around twelve years for me to see 100,000 miles (in my old days, that would be 5 or so vehicles).
So, from my perspective, that was a lot.
I'll agree that 100,000 is throw-away mileage, the jeep I just bought has 200,000 on it and seems to only need a computer (ran fine when it worked, no smoke).
Automobile names are frequently chosen for some psychological effect. Think of the connotations: (Mustang) a wild horse, (Pinto) a little Mustang, (Pacifica) the churning ocean, (La Sabre) obvious, (Expedition)(Explorer)(Denali) rugged outdoors, (Vega) (Corvette) sleek, fast ships or plans, (Eldorado) etc. Make your list but you can also see the West Coast influence, no more Chrysler New Yorker or Plymouth Belvedere.
Yeah, I used to shift that 327 at about 6,800 rpms when racing, missed a few shifts before getting the tranny rebuild (had a nasty little habit of not actually going into second gear, thought it was the linkage, but was an internal problem - it was a twenty-year old transmission).
I sold it and the guy who bought it from me raced it as well. About ten years or so after my dad and I built that motor, the new owner tore it down, other than a single broken piston ring, it went back together without any machine work being needed.
If the cars are OEM, did they come from the factory tuned for ethanol?
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