Posted on 07/14/2008 7:22:20 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
Three British Muslims yesterday admitted plotting to explode a homemade bomb at the Houses of Parliament in protest at the UK's role in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The men and two others also admitted conspiring to cause public nuisance by distributing Al Qaeda- style videos threatening suicide bomb attacks in Britain.
But prosecutors claimed they made 'inherently improbable' and 'bogus' confessions to these charges to distract attention from the main allegations - a plot to blow up airliners flying from Heathrow to major U.S. cities.
They accused the men of being in a gang wanting to kill thousands of passengers by detonating liquid bombs in a wave of mid-air explosions.
A jury at Woolwich Crown Court, South-East London, must still decide if the five men, plus three others, are guilty of an unprecedented suicide bomb conspiracy.
Prosecutor Peter Wright QC said the conspirators were fanatics who believed they would achieve immortality through mass murder.
He said: 'What they intended was to shock the world, not merely by the nature of the acts but also by the fact that such actions could be committed by apparently ordinary law-abiding citizens.
'This was part of the message. A statement of the strength of resistance to perceived Muslim oppression.'
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
They look like a ‘happy bunch’! Gads.....
Ok, they don't allow that in the UK...
Boil them in oil!
Ok, they don't allow that in the UK either...
ummmmm....
Wave your fingers at them and say "naughty naughty!"
(maybe they can't do that in the UK either...)
Guy Fawkes, who was captured in act of attempting to light the gun powder was taken before the privy council where he remained defiant.
When they asked for his name Guy answered John Johnson. He was tortured over the next few days, after the King granted special permission to do so. James directed that the torture should be light at first, and then more severe. Sir William Wade, Lieutenant of the Tower of London at this time, supervised the torture and obtained Fawkes's confession. For three or four days Fawkes said nothing, let alone divulged the names of his co-conspirators. Only when he found out that they had proclaimed themselves by appearing in arms did he succumb. The torture only revealed the names of those conspirators who were already dead or whose names were known to the authorities. Some had fled to Dunchurch, Warwickshire, where they were killed or captured. On 31 January, Fawkes and a number of others implicated in the conspiracy were tried in Westminster Hall. After being found guilty, they were taken to Old Palace Yard in Westminster and St Paul's Yard, where they were hanged, drawn, and quartered. Fawkes, however, cheated the hangman by jumping from the scaffold, breaking his neck before he could be drawn and quartered ("The King's Book.",1606.)
what does “proclaimed themselves by appearing in arms” mean?
thank you ahead of time
Three retards.
Three retards.
I don't know. I had just condensed this down from a wiki article on the gun powder rebellion. Maybe a British freeper can translate this for us. I just thought I would add this to show how the English have handled such matters in the past.
Probably means they took potshots at some Officials of the King, or may a Lord or three. I think a little later the terminology would be "bore arms against the King."
What the Brits need to do is to let in a few more of these savages.
Then, they need to pick up the tab for their housing.
Then they need to give them free medical care.
Then they need to give them a few thousand pounds of welfare bennies, paid by the people whom they're trying to kill.
That way, they have all day every day to do nothing but sit around in mosque and figure out how to do things like blow up parliament.
Oh. Never mind. That's what they've already done! Good job GB!
Not had capital punishment for some time in the UK, for fear of killing an innocent person.
In this case, the defendants are going to go away for a very long time. 25 years to life.
You should celebrate this success. We have, after all, saved American lives in stopping the plot. Or doesn’t that matter?
Hmmm, funny.
I would add that in stopping this plot our Security Services have saved the lives of American citizens. I would have hoped for some thanks in these fair pages, not mocking.
Would you rather we didn’t stop the plot? It appears that whatever the outcome, you were going to have a bad word to say about the UK.
Not at all. I like the UK. I just think that the justice system there is a rife with problems as the one in the US. Mark my words, this "justice" meted out to these thugs will come back to haunt both of us.
I cant argue with the problems in our respective justice systems.
In this case though, I don’t think that the 3 accused are ever going to pose a problem to national security again.
They should immediately be burned at the stake.
Not until:
a) A copycat bomber tries to imitate them
b) a kidnapping is performed on a UK subject here or there and the ransom demanded is a "prisoner swap".
c) the thugs train others in prison in their ideology.
Oh, I think they could well indeed pose a threat to UK national security. Maybe if Britain had a "Gitmo" type of solution for these slime it might be more of a deterrent, but execution is the only sure way to know they cannot ply their "trade" now or in the future or be the objects of future kidnappings or mayhem.
There are very, very few deaths of prison guards in the UK. Its unlikely they will kill their visitors as they will be visiting them. Family members etc.
As for them doing some harm to other ‘white collar criminals’, I couldn’t care less. All criminals are in prison for a reason, so if one falls ill to anothers predations, then perhaps it may make them think why they broke the law in the first place.
And, if they are found guilty of terrorism, inciting racial hatred, attempted mass murder and the rest of it, they aren’t likely to get released, ever. Only when they can demonstrate they pose no risk to the UK public will they ever be considered for release. Until then, they can enjoy the hospitality of Belmarsh.
Burning at the stake is archaic, rightfully relegated to a time in our past when we jumped at shadows and conjured demons to explain our ills. I do though, applaud your enthusiasm!
‘a) A copycat bomber tries to imitate them’
Well, no matter what the sentence the Crown could impose, their is always the risk of copycaters following suit. This would be the case even if, as another FR fella said, they were ‘burned at the stake’.
B: The kidnapping, although a problem, isn’t top of the list. Where exactly is a home grown terrorist in the UK going to stash someone they have kidnapped, without rousing a fairly large amount of suspicion. Low risk, but I grant you, a faint possibilty.
C: Well, they will be sectioned with the other terrorist criminals in essentially ‘muslim’ wings in the prisons. Not ideal I grant you, but then the only way to stop them is to engage in capital punishment. I understand that if there was ever a crime that fits the punishment, Treason against the Crown would be it. In good conscience though, I am happy that we have spared their lives where they wouldn’t have. It makes me better, and more humane, than the enemy.
So far you haven’t had all that many prison personnel killed. Actually, you shouldn’t have any. With this new kind of ideologically motivated (and arrogant) prisoner, odds are good they will do what our lifers do ~ kill somebody.
Whose to say that it happens in the UK? People travel, and where there are softer targets, attempts can be made. Israelis have experienced this world wide.
It makes me better, and more humane, than the enemy.
It might also make someone more dead.
El Gato-—is the extinct of my spanish, but I like to add one more word, El Gato Diablo ... as a cat owner who has experienced “the claw” you can understand why.
but to the point, it makes sense now when I read “bore arms against the King”
thanks
Taffini
I hope and pray that all of us — the western world — wakes the hell up to the threat we face from these savages.
They will kill guards, officials, visitors, other prisoners WITH CERTAINTY.
What you have done is spare the life of a killer only to condemn to death some innocent person whose name you don't know.
I suspect that sort of behavior actually knocks you down the ladder of moral quality a tad!
No it doesn’t. Because their is no fate, we can all choose to act how we want to. ‘My’ way allows for an individual to repent, to live out their lives as bitter but encarcerated criminals, or to seek revenge in acts of violence and murder. 2 out of 3 options are good with me, with the other obviously not so.
Your way assumes the worst case scenario as already written in fate. I know its not going to be a popular comment here, but its what I believe, and I daresay many in the UK with me.
I appreciate your candor though.
You might want to aquaint yourself with Romans 13:
It is good to fear the sword of the state, for it has its purpose.
In fact, in your prisons he's going to get ample opportunity to reinforce his worst core beliefs.
Given the type of prisoner, death for an innocent party is certain ~ not because of "fate" but because of statistical certainty.
Thanks for highlighting the flaw in the anti-death penalty argument ~ that the prisoner can simply be maintained to think about things, repent, etc.
That's not what happens.
I dont want to argue much more, but there is a logical flaw in your comment thus ...’Given the type of prisoner, death for an innocent party is certain ~ not because of “fate” but because of statistical certainty’...
That is to say that every single terrorist in prison is going to kill someone while locked up. But then, that can’t be said of the republican terrorists in Northern Ireland can it?
I grant you, they wont repent, at least nine times out of ten they wont. And they are in prison.
A simple question? Would you rather they were locked up in Belmarsh for life, or walking the streets cooking up ideas to attack the UK and her allies? Would you rather have US citizens at risk cos the blke is on the outside, or would you rather have a significantly reduced chance of violence?
You cant change our justice system, so can’t you people just welcome this good news, congratulate UK security services for saving American lives and continue to work together for the good of all?
Or are you more concerned with making the Evil Redcoats look bad than actually improving your lives? Cutting your nose off to spite your face...
Get serious. These guys are killers, and in their minds they've convinced themselves that killing people is a desirable social benefit.
They feel they earn redemption by killing.
The fact that your judicial system falls short of meeting the need of society to rid itself of these creatures is an indication that you will shortly find the weakness in it.
BTW, 25 to life still means "25", and some of them will be ready, willing and able to do what they want, and will tell any lie to get loose so they can kill people.
And regarding the IRA in your prisons, if you've got them locked up for 25 years they are going to eventually get out and start up the killing machine again.
By then most of the people concerned with IRA crimes will be dead so a new generation will find itself doing the dieing on behalf of the sensitive sensibilities of the older generation.
NOTE: My argument isn’t necessarily with the poor taxpayers of UK. Rather, it’s with the international anti-death penalty proponents. They’re setting up innocent people to be murdered and yet they don’t feel a thing about it.
“Europeans are so strange. The only time they approve of killing is when they get to blow up cities full of civilians whose only crime is to live on the wrong side of the battlefield.”
Nah, surely not! A small exageration maybe? Can you give recent examples?
“And regarding the IRA in your prisons, if you’ve got them locked up for 25 years they are going to eventually get out and start up the killing machine again.”
Many of them were released under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. The sectarian violence that plagued our nation for 40 years has pretty much ended. We didn’t hang them, they have come out and discovered that the world has moved on without them. They are obsolete. Perhaps this could be the case again.
Here’s hoping.
Thanks for the posts, I have enjoyed our little debate.
BTW, I use Dr. Dean's argument. He found out when he was Governor of Vt. that when you don't execute someone for certain types of murders they do it again and again and again.
BTW, he is, of course a one mind-numbed, knee-jerk, robot-like Liberal in all other matters.
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