Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

An Argument For An Armed Citizenry (Gang Assault at Valley Fair Amusement Park)
Power Line ^ | July 16, 2008 | John Hinderaker

Posted on 07/17/2008 8:16:54 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

A horrific news story has slowly made its way into the headlines here in the Twin Cities. A local resident, his wife and three daughters spent the evening of the Fourth of July at Valleyfair, a local amusement park. They were leaving the park at midnight when a criminal began to molest his twelve-year-old daughter.

The father intervened to defend his daughter, and the offender put out a call for his "homies." Eight "men" materialized and began to beat up the father. They knocked him to the ground and took turns stomping on his head. The man's wife and daughters tried to protect him, unsuccessfully, and Valleyfair's security guards apparently tried to help, but ineffectually.

The father is still hospitalized, but the criminals are out on bail. The family's name is being kept secret, lest the criminals find them and kill them to avoid prosecution.

Initially, the local media downplayed the story, presumably because of the race of the criminals. But today, the Minneapolis Star Tribune broke down and covered it. Still, the story was apparently too hot for the paper to allow comments; if you follow the link, you'll see that, contrary to the Star Tribune's usual policy, it is impossible to comment.

The story is an infuriating one in several ways, but what strikes me most forcibly is that it would have been a good thing if a few armed citizens had happened by while the assault was in progress. It's no surprise that the victim's wife and daughters couldn't protect him from eight "men," and apparently Valleyfair's security force is unarmed. So the optimal outcome here would have been for one or more normal citizens to pull a firearm, shoot a couple of the criminals, and hold the rest until the police arrived. Criminals who carry out outrageous assaults in public do so on the assumption that passersby will not be able to stop them. Absent firearms, that assumption is reasonable. So let's hear it for concealed carry.

Under Minnesota law, any business can ban guns on its premises, and, while a few minutes of research yielded nothing, I assume that Valleyfair bans guns, as most businesses that are open to the public do. This strikes me as a mistake. Against a gang such as the one that is now on the loose in the Twin Cities, only armed citizens can be effective.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; ccw; concealedcarry; gang; gangs; hinderaker; racerelations; secondamendment; selfdefense; sheeple; twincities
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-67 next last
Exactly!
1 posted on 07/17/2008 8:16:55 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

And when the wolf is at the door, who will one turn to but one’s self?


2 posted on 07/17/2008 8:19:54 PM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ Romans 10.10/Eze 11.2)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
This story makes my blood boil.

I'm going to self-censor now.

3 posted on 07/17/2008 8:21:57 PM PDT by TheWasteLand
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

This is just an example of Baraq Husayn ibn Mahomet and his “civilian national security force” which is “equally armed and trained”....


4 posted on 07/17/2008 8:26:06 PM PDT by Old Sarge (CTHULHU '08 - I won't settle for a lesser evil any longer!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
>"They knocked him to the ground and took turns stomping on his head."

Same MO as the Jeener Sicks!

The real question is, was he thinking of a noose? Then all is well, ,,,well except for him.

5 posted on 07/17/2008 8:28:10 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (I will stand with the Muslims ~B Hussein Obomber Verito Possumus~Verified Sleeper!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Security” should be armed at the very least when a place is ‘open’ to the public.


6 posted on 07/17/2008 8:29:57 PM PDT by Shadowstrike (Be polite, Be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

That’s why I carry. 40 rounds of .45 ACP 230 gr Gold Dot hollow point should help me make my point should thugs ever try to harm me or my family.


7 posted on 07/17/2008 8:32:26 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
More than 1,600 Whites are murdered by Blacks each year.

Blacks murder Whites at 18 times the rate Whites murder Blacks.

About 1 million Whites were murdered, robbed, assaulted, or raped by Blacks in 1992.

In the last 30 years, 170 million violent and nonviolent crimes were committed by Blacks against Whites in the U.S.

Blacks under 18 are more than 12 times more likely to be arrested for murder than Whites the same age.

Some 90% of the victims of race crimes are Whites.

Blacks commit 7.5 times more violent interracial crimes than Whites, although they comprise only one-seventh of the White population.

On a per-capita basis, blacks commit 50 times more violent crimes than Whites.

Some 27 million nonviolent crimes were committed in the U.S. in 1992 alone. 31% of the robberies involved Black offenders and White victims; only 2% involved White offenders and Black victims.

1.3 million of the 6.6 million violent crimes committed in the U.S. each year are interracial.

source

8 posted on 07/17/2008 8:34:58 PM PDT by South40
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: South40

Just damn! I had no idea: I’m a 6ft. tall, 375lb former soldier that works on the side as a bodyguard, but I still couldn’t take on eight guys. We need CCW in every state as of yesterday!!


9 posted on 07/17/2008 8:38:24 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (McCain could never convince me to vote for him. Only the Marxist Obama can!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

A double-tap to one or two heads of these miscreants and the rest would have fled like the cowards that they are. CCW should be a right guaranteed by the Constitution.


10 posted on 07/17/2008 8:39:24 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a U.S. Army Soldier soon to be training other Army Soldiers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: South40
But, but, but, inequality made them do it/sarc
11 posted on 07/17/2008 8:41:03 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a U.S. Army Soldier soon to be training other Army Soldiers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: AlaskaErik

Where do you fit 40 rounds?


12 posted on 07/17/2008 8:44:35 PM PDT by wastedyears (Show me your precious darlings, and I will crush them all)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: holdonnow

Boy, is this one to hit hard.


13 posted on 07/17/2008 8:46:21 PM PDT by JennysCool
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AlaskaErik

You carry 40 rounds?


14 posted on 07/17/2008 8:47:28 PM PDT by Cobra64 (www.BulletBras.net)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Still, the story was apparently too hot for the paper to allow comments; if you follow the link, you'll see that, contrary to the Star Tribune's usual policy, it is impossible to comment.

You can't comment on their editorials, either. Wonder why that is?

15 posted on 07/17/2008 8:48:35 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("We are the people." - Psalm 95:7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
The father is still hospitalized, but the criminals are out on bail

That's all one needs to know to understand the problem in the twin cities

16 posted on 07/17/2008 8:49:29 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: milford421

Ping.


17 posted on 07/17/2008 8:49:59 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1990507/posts?page=451 SURVIVAL, RECIPES, GARDENS, & INFO)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Hmmm? Sounds like Obama’s ‘Youth Corps’ in action.
Or, could it be his ‘Citizens Security Force.’
Instead of Brown Shirts, they are now wearing Red.
By the way could this be another ‘Hate Crime’ that the MSM is trying to hide.
Hope everyone remembers the two white kids killed this past year by 5 Afro Americans. They tortured, raped and mutilated both the man and woman. But the Liberal MSM refused to call it a hate crime.
18 posted on 07/17/2008 8:50:05 PM PDT by Doc91678 (Doc91678)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
So much to say...

And to top off the whole story:

The father is still hospitalized, but the criminals are out on bail. The family's name is being kept secret, lest the criminals find them and kill them to avoid prosecution.

The perps are out on bail? Did the judge at the hearing not see the OBVIOUS danger to the victims and to society as a whole...not to mention that they are a flight risk... stupid judge. Anything happens to the family, the judge should be held as an accessory...

19 posted on 07/17/2008 9:05:39 PM PDT by TheBattman (Vote your conscience, or don't complain about RINOs!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Bring back public hanging (or better yet, public impalment) and this will end quickly.


20 posted on 07/17/2008 9:10:16 PM PDT by The Duke (I have met the enemy, and he is named 'Apathy'!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AlaskaErik

I only caryy 20 of 9mm FMJ in two clips. But I practice, and a couple head shots will prob end most situations I’m likely to ever find myself in. Would have ended this one. Then again, stories like this make me think about upgrading my caliber. (Sometime in winter I carry a .357 or even a .50AE, but that’s a rare occasion.)


21 posted on 07/17/2008 9:39:35 PM PDT by piytar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
when a criminal began to molest his twelve-year-old daughter.

This is where the shooting should have begun. Don't think he'd have shot you if the situation was reversed?

22 posted on 07/17/2008 9:39:51 PM PDT by budwiesest (Four ninths of our Supreme Court can't read. Left my fly open.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Old Sarge
This is just an example of Baraq Husayn ibn Mahomet and his “civilian national security force” which is “equally armed and trained”....

I think hussein has in mind something along the lines of "fruits of islam" rather than "I tell you sir, the militia is the whole of the people".

23 posted on 07/17/2008 9:47:21 PM PDT by Eagles6 ( Typical White Guy: Christian, Constitutionalist, Heterosexual, Redneck)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: wastedyears

A McCiever ammo box

“Fourty ROunds, Sir” 13th Infantry Moto


24 posted on 07/17/2008 10:14:32 PM PDT by truemiester ((If the U.S. should fail, a veil of darkness will come over the Earth for a thousand years))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: piytar

Where do you fit a Desert Eagle?


25 posted on 07/17/2008 10:31:43 PM PDT by wastedyears (Show me your precious darlings, and I will crush them all)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: truemiester

Gotcha


26 posted on 07/17/2008 10:31:55 PM PDT by wastedyears (Show me your precious darlings, and I will crush them all)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

Also a good argument for lynching.


27 posted on 07/17/2008 10:43:46 PM PDT by Godwin1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

I seem to recall some Freepers blaming the wife for not beating up the eight attackers, and a lot of “if I’da been there” BS. The keyboard commandos were out in force. (Or rather, safely behind their keyboards in force)


28 posted on 07/17/2008 10:44:54 PM PDT by ozzymandus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64; wastedyears
"You carry 40 rounds? "

Sounds like 13 plus 1 in the gun, and 2 spare mags. You can do that with Para-ordinance, and others, I believe.

29 posted on 07/17/2008 10:46:03 PM PDT by matthew fuller (I'm John McCain, and I hereby repudiate and disavow all Republican and Conservative values.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Initially, the local media downplayed the story, presumably because of the race of the criminals

as did some chump freepers who castigated me right off the bat.

30 posted on 07/17/2008 11:12:45 PM PDT by wardaddy (Myself and my ancestors take full responsibility for all racial discrimination here since 1607)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wastedyears

Big bulky ski coat (old style), baggy jeans, barrel held by elastic strap against the inside thigh with hand grip laid over the waist line along hip, doesn’t show at all as long as I keep the coat on.


31 posted on 07/17/2008 11:24:38 PM PDT by piytar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: piytar

I’m having a hard time figuring out where exactly you anchor that Desert Eagle...


32 posted on 07/17/2008 11:34:41 PM PDT by wastedyears (Show me your precious darlings, and I will crush them all)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: wastedyears
Where do you fit 40 rounds?

13 round mag plus one in the pipe equals 14 rounds. Plus two spare mags with 13 rounds each. 40 total rounds.

33 posted on 07/17/2008 11:35:18 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64
You carry 40 rounds?

That's a light load. Those with a 9 mm carry 52 rounds. But .45 is more effective, especially in the winter, when people have lots of layers.

34 posted on 07/17/2008 11:37:53 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: matthew fuller

Yes, I guess. I’m used to thinking along the lines of the classic single stack 7-8 round .45s.


35 posted on 07/17/2008 11:38:00 PM PDT by Cobra64 (www.BulletBras.net)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: AlaskaErik

Understood


36 posted on 07/17/2008 11:42:23 PM PDT by wastedyears (Show me your precious darlings, and I will crush them all)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: matthew fuller
Sounds like 13 plus 1 in the gun, and 2 spare mags. You can do that with Para-ordinance, and others, I believe.

You got it. XD-45 for me.

37 posted on 07/17/2008 11:42:44 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64
Yes, I guess. I’m used to thinking along the lines of the classic single stack 7-8 round .45s.

I've never cared for the 1911. XD-45 is what convinced me to go to the .45 ACP round.

38 posted on 07/17/2008 11:44:59 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: piytar
I only caryy 20 of 9mm FMJ in two clips.

Just curious, but why FMJ? Only thing I use that for is target practice, although I've heard it's better in bear country than hollow points. Unless you're in NJ, which means you can't CCW anyway.

39 posted on 07/17/2008 11:49:15 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: piytar
Then again, stories like this make me think about upgrading my caliber.

I prefer .40 or .45, but I do have some mouse guns in .380, the theory being that a .380 in the pocket is better than a .45 back home. If you're good with 9mm then there's probably no need to upgrade.

40 posted on 07/17/2008 11:52:18 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: AlaskaErik
I've never cared for the 1911

Hey, now waitaminit....;-)

41 posted on 07/18/2008 12:01:16 AM PDT by M1911A1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Cobra64
"I’m used to thinking along the lines of the classic single stack 7-8 round .45s."

That's my carry choice, Springfield Armory with Chip McCormick's 8 round mag. Some say a single stack is more reliable than a double-stack. I can live with that.

42 posted on 07/18/2008 12:30:32 AM PDT by matthew fuller (I'm John McCain, and I hereby repudiate and disavow all Republican and Conservative values.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: AlaskaErik

“That’s a light load. Those with a 9 mm carry 52 rounds. But .45 is more effective, especially in the winter, when people have lots of layers.”

Lots of layers of winter clothing and other barriers is where the high velocity of the 9mm is often more effective than 45acp. The main weakness of 45acp is in penetration. It’s great for situations where targets are unprotected but when you have to shoot through stuff is where it can fall short.

There are many +p+ level 9mm loadings that will reliably penetrate soft body armor, 45acp does not do well in this department.


43 posted on 07/18/2008 1:07:40 AM PDT by precisionshootist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
The diversity of the environment around the Mid South Fair in Memphis, Tennessee, is the main reason attendance there has plummeted the last ten years. Several years ago there was a gunfight in front of many fair goers that the newspapers didn't cover because it gave the fair “bad” publicity. Over the last several years white attendees of the Mid South Fair have become targets for robberies and car theft. Its almost like ringing a food bell for animals when the fair begins. Just read the statistics posted in #8 and increase the data toward the diverse group people committing crimes...the data is several years old...Justice Department is withholding current data because it is damming.
44 posted on 07/18/2008 3:21:50 AM PDT by vetvetdoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

The victims both the assaulted girl and her father should sue
hell out of the park for not having proper security.
you take its profits away and all of the sudden they may allow folks to carry protection or else they can go out of business.
Also Minnesota is a very liberal state which has elected the judge that allowed bail on these cretins. You reap what you sow.


45 posted on 07/18/2008 3:27:02 AM PDT by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
Years ago, at Disney World in Orlando, my wife and I admired the dispatch with which Disney security ousted unruly patrons, regardless of race.

Contrast that with our experience at Sea Breeze park near Rochester, NY. The Rochester area is a lot like Minnesota and in this had become a welfare magnet. Anyway, an otherwise very pleasant facility had lots of unruly young people of a certain ethnicity and encounters with them seriously detracted from the experience.

There was no visible security and if the park had attempted to enforce order, there probably would have been a lawsuit brought by the ACLU.

This isn't a racist observation. It's just commonsense. When we become so sensitive to the race of disruptive people we destroy the comity that makes civilized existence possible.

46 posted on 07/18/2008 3:52:12 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (Hillary to Obama: Arkancide happens.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

This is a hard call in some ways. They were coming out of an amusement park. I conceal carry, but I don’t conceal carry going into an amusement park. I don’t think my SP-101 would feel to good slamming up against me while riding a roller coaster etc.. I guess the wife could have it in her purse but then my wife does not bring a purse to the amusement park. I guess the final idea might be to store it in a locker on the premises and pick it up when you leave. You would be protected coming into or out of the park.

One other thing, as I mentioned in the summertime I carry an SP 101 in .357 form. It’s a five shot and if this guy would have had it he would have been able to fend off attackers. I don’t believe you need overwhelming firepower to solve these situations (40 - 50 rounds). If he would have shot one of them, the rest of them would not even notice that you have only 4 shots left. They would have gotten out of there in a hurry.


47 posted on 07/18/2008 4:28:18 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AlaskaErik

FMJ because despite what you see in Hollywood, it will penetrate light cover at close range. Also, and probably far more importantly, its what I practice with (partly due to cost), so I know the feel of the round (kick, drop, etc.). If possible, practice and use round should be as close as possibe to each othe, IMHO.


48 posted on 07/18/2008 6:11:56 AM PDT by piytar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Old Teufel Hunden

That’s well said. One shot would have sent them scattering like geese. Trash like that understands bullets quite well.


49 posted on 07/18/2008 6:20:50 AM PDT by Rocky Mountain High
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: NorthWoody; Manic_Episode; mikethevike; coder2; AmericanChef; Reaganesque; ER Doc; lesser_satan; ...

WELCOME TO FREE REPUBLIC’S MINNESOTA PING LIST!

99 MEMBERS AND GROWING...!

FREEPMAIL ME IF YOU WANT ON OR OFF THIS LIST!


50 posted on 07/18/2008 6:39:29 AM PDT by MplsSteve
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-67 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson