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European Union abolishes the British acre
The Telegraph ^ | 7/21/2008 | Andrew Porter

Posted on 07/20/2008 9:15:56 PM PDT by bruinbirdman

The acre, one of Britain's historic imperial measurements, is to be banned from use under a new European directive.

The measurement, which will officially be replaced by the hectare, will no longer be allowed when land is being registered.

After being agreed last week, the new ruling will come into force in January 2010.

The Tories are angry that unlike some other EU countries, who sent Cabinet-level ministers to the meeting on 15 July, the Government only sent Jonathan Shaw, a junior minister at the Department for Environment Farming and Rural Affairs, to represent Britain's interests.

Mark Francois, the Shadow Europe Minister said: "It is this kind of pointless interference into the nooks and crannies of our national life that frustrates people about the EU. Whether we use hectares or acres should be a matter for Britain to decide, not the EU.

"Once again this weak Labour Government has meekly given up yet another of Britain's rights to Brussels. They need to think again and insist that we must keep our right to use our ancient traditional measure of land if we wish."

A hectare is the equivalent of 2.471 acres; the acre, one of Britain's most ancient units, measures 4,840 square yards.

The first law setting out the exact statutory size for the acre was passed in the early 14th century under Edward I. It is derived from an even older English word, related to the Latin "ager", from which words such as agriculture are derived.

Britain had, until now, an opt-out from the European Union's use of metric measurements which allowed the use of acres to continue.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: eu; oneworldgovernment
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1 posted on 07/20/2008 9:15:57 PM PDT by bruinbirdman
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To: bruinbirdman

This will bring the British Empire to it’s knees. /s


2 posted on 07/20/2008 9:20:21 PM PDT by doc1019 (I was taught to respect my elders, but it's getting harder to find one.)
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To: bruinbirdman
Whether we use hectares or acres should be a matter for Britain to decide, not the EU.

Absolutely right. Those countries gave up a lot of soveriegnty. Personally, I wish we in the US would switch over to meters, kilograms, and liters. Much easier to work with and you don't have to have nearly as many wrenches.

3 posted on 07/20/2008 9:21:43 PM PDT by MovementConservative (John Roberts and Sam Alito.... Thank you GWB)
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To: bruinbirdman
Canada has been metric since 1975. Its time for the UK to get on with the conversion.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

4 posted on 07/20/2008 9:22:24 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: bruinbirdman
"the Government only sent Jonathan Shaw, a junior minister at the Department for Environment Farming and Rural Affairs"

At least they're not sending a racist, Marxist junior Senator to the Presidency, unlike some others on this planet.

5 posted on 07/20/2008 9:25:03 PM PDT by the anti-liberal (Write in: Fred Thompson)
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To: bruinbirdman

One by one, centimeter by centimeter, the nations of New Europe surrender their distinctive identities.

They have preserved only one tradition.

They all hate American Conservatives.


6 posted on 07/20/2008 9:26:59 PM PDT by zeestephen
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To: bruinbirdman

Does anyone remember, “Metric Mike?”


7 posted on 07/20/2008 9:31:48 PM PDT by preacher (A government which robs from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.)
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To: bruinbirdman
The official survey on my place here in Texas is still measured in Spanish varas.

Big deal... Calculators are cheap nowadays -- and conversion factors are readily available on the internet.

8 posted on 07/20/2008 9:32:21 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...!!)
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To: MovementConservative
Why? What is to gained by that?

Remember back roughly twenty years ago when the metric craze was brought on in this country by the metric crazies. Politician bought onto the craze. Highway signs were in both English and metric.

All gone!!!!!!

Thank God! It was stupid and cost a lot of money and no one liked it or paid any attention to it.

Furthermore, as has been previously posted, conversion calculators are readily available on the net and are very easy to use.

9 posted on 07/20/2008 9:36:59 PM PDT by Parmy
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To: bruinbirdman

They should have just switched to arpents.

And, for those who aren’t familiar with land measurements, an arpent is about .85 acre (and apparently the FR spell checker hasn’t ever looked at Louisiana land records).


10 posted on 07/20/2008 9:41:32 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: aculeus; Billthedrill; martin_fierro; Tijeras_Slim; Charles Henrickson; Larry Lucido; ...

Ping to some notorious wisehectares.


11 posted on 07/20/2008 9:42:43 PM PDT by dighton
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To: goldstategop

Every time I look at a Canadian road sign I have to multiply 8/5ths. What will they do with the PLSS all built on miles and acres?


12 posted on 07/20/2008 9:50:17 PM PDT by the_daug
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To: MovementConservative
"I wish we in the US would switch over to meters, kilograms, and liters..."

Yeah, then the speed limit would be 105.

yitbos

13 posted on 07/20/2008 9:51:03 PM PDT by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds." - Ayn Rand)
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To: bruinbirdman
Yeah, then the speed limit would be 105.

And how long befor e some idiot with a mph speedometer tried to go at that speed?

14 posted on 07/20/2008 9:55:39 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (In Cleveland: No one may kill a mouse in the streets without a hunting license)
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To: Oztrich Boy
How many centimeters of rain have fallen in this area?

Drought threatens water supply of more than a million Australians

yitbos

15 posted on 07/20/2008 10:01:51 PM PDT by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds." - Ayn Rand)
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To: zeestephen

UK and USA should switch to the metric system to be honest, but I do agree that it should be up to the ppl in thsoe country to decide


16 posted on 07/20/2008 10:09:24 PM PDT by 4rcane
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To: dighton
notorious wisehectares

I resemble that.

17 posted on 07/20/2008 10:18:20 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Keep the change.)
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To: goldstategop

“Canada has been metric since 1975.”

And, we’ve learned if you give them 2.54 centimeters; they’ll take 1.6 kilometers.


18 posted on 07/20/2008 10:34:53 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Parmy
I was driving through Yellowstone National Park in June. At some point, we got stuck behind some jackass driving about 30 MPH in a 45 MPH zone. We both turned off to view the Fountain Paint Pot area. The jackass walks by and says in a thick German accent, "This is a national park, not the Autobahn". I replied, "This is America. We post speeds in miles per hour, not kilometers per hour. Learn to read the speed signs." 45 kilometers per hour converts to 28 miles per hour...just the speed at which the ignorant tourist was driving.
19 posted on 07/20/2008 11:00:43 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Oztrich Boy
And how long befor e some idiot with a mph speedometer tried to go at that speed?

The error goes both ways. See my post at #19.

20 posted on 07/20/2008 11:02:59 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: goldstategop
Canada has been metric since 1975.

Semi-metric. Acres are still in use. For example:

Kelowna and Okanagan Lots and Acreage For Sale

21 posted on 07/20/2008 11:29:19 PM PDT by TheMole
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To: 4rcane; zeestephen; Southack; bruinbirdman
UK and USA should switch to the metric system to be honest, but I do agree that it should be up to the ppl in thsoe country to decide

What about all the plumbing pipes and fixtures? should they all be converted too? Should we have to put in conversion fittings just so we can all use metric pipes? What about light bulbs? Should all the new lights be required to only fit metric threaded sockets? Should all light fixitures be required to be updated with new metric sockets? What about drill pipe? Should the oil and gas industry abolish the use of API standard pipes that are dimensioned in inches regardless of whether the pipe is made in the US, Japan, or China? Are you willing to pay $10 per gallon for gasoline in order to pay for a conversion to metric? Or should that be $2.64 per liter? Also, shouldn't the commodity markets abolish the barrel as the unit of measure for oil?

22 posted on 07/21/2008 12:39:34 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less.)
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To: Oztrich Boy
Yeah, then the speed limit would be 105. And how long befor e some idiot with a mph speedometer tried to go at that speed?

Is that wrong?!? Heck, it only felt like 85...

23 posted on 07/21/2008 2:35:13 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: goldstategop
"...Canada has been metric since 1975..."

I'd be curious if Canadians build frame houses today using the Metric system.

BTW: My shoe measures 31 centimeters—or exactly one foot!

24 posted on 07/21/2008 3:03:25 AM PDT by Does so (...against all enemies, DOMESTIC and foreign...)
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To: MovementConservative
Personally, I wish we in the US would switch over to meters, kilograms, and liters. Much easier to work with and you don't have to have nearly as many wrenches.

Depends on what you are doing, FRiend. It is certainly much more unwieldy for carpentry.

25 posted on 07/21/2008 3:23:01 AM PDT by gridlock (Al Gore wants YOU to live like the Flintstones while HE lives like the Jetsons. .. FREE LAZAMATAZ!)
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To: bruinbirdman

I don’t want to sound like a loon here, but Metric System have always seemed to me to be the perfect example of senseless government-knows-best meddling. It was developed by a bunch of eggheads and imposed on the people for no reason at all. It should be resisted for this reason alone.


26 posted on 07/21/2008 3:29:24 AM PDT by gridlock (Al Gore wants YOU to live like the Flintstones while HE lives like the Jetsons. .. FREE LAZAMATAZ!)
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To: gridlock

As I remember from my days of education it all depends on what you are doing. If you are a scientist because metric units of weight and mass are the same and everything is decimal it is easier to use. If you are not a scientist and everything in your environment is inches and pounds it is a pain in the a$$.


27 posted on 07/21/2008 3:48:52 AM PDT by wastoute
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To: gridlock; MovementConservative
Metric system is IMPOSSIBLE for carpentry!

Just try calculating a rafter angle with it some time!

The other difficulty with metrics is that feet and inches, being a sort of base 12, are easily divided in multiple ways. And the half, quarter, eighth, sixteenth, 32nd, 64th progression is logical and easy to carry in your head. The decimals are too unwieldy for practical measurements.

- just a "rough carpenter" - as my dad says, "Good on rough work, and rough on good work!"

28 posted on 07/21/2008 4:41:32 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

Ask a three-year-old to mark the middle of a line, and they will get it right to within 5% or so. Ask a thirty-year-old to mark 0.3 of a line, and he will be off by 10% or more.

The human mind naturally divides things into halves, quarters, eighths, etc. It also divides things into thirds fairly well. Thus the Base 12 system, not surprisingly, makes a lot of sense. I say “not surprisingly” because organically-derived systems often make a lot of sense.

Our numbering system is Base 10 because we happen, by evolutionary accident, to have five fingers on each hand. But 10 is a very unweildy number, factoring into 2 and the prime 5. Splitting it up quickly yields either indecipherable strings of digits, or meaningless decimal fractions. It just doesn’t match the way the human mind works.


29 posted on 07/21/2008 4:48:59 AM PDT by gridlock (Al Gore wants YOU to live like the Flintstones while HE lives like the Jetsons. .. FREE LAZAMATAZ!)
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To: wastoute

Well said, wastoute. If the scientists want metric, let ‘em have it. Let THEM do all the recalculations.

Leave the rest of us alone.

Regards,

PS: Anyone remember back — geeze — to the mid-70s, I guess, when they went so far as to put metric measurements on the outfield walls of a lot of US baseball parks? THAT was the height of the metric craze.


30 posted on 07/21/2008 4:54:35 AM PDT by VermiciousKnid
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To: gridlock
The English system works. And you're right that it grew up organically -- King Henry's shipwrights were using it, and probably the boys in Domesday Book as well. Anybody who's ever thrown together a backyard shed or a kid's playhouse benefits from the experience of a thousand years of English craftsmen.

The boffins and bureaucrats in the EU have probably never soiled their soft, white hands with a hammer and a bag of nails.

31 posted on 07/21/2008 4:59:44 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

OK, but what do the little diamonds at 19 7/32” and 38 7/16”, etc on your tape measure mean? I have never been able to figure that one out.


32 posted on 07/21/2008 5:02:49 AM PDT by gridlock (Al Gore wants YOU to live like the Flintstones while HE lives like the Jetsons. .. FREE LAZAMATAZ!)
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To: Parmy

I always work metric. I abandoned inches/feet several years ago. The guys in my shop resisted but once the began to use it, liked it.

When I sold them the shop, they reverted to anglo dimensions however.


33 posted on 07/21/2008 5:10:30 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Conservation? Let the NE Yankees freeze.... in the dark)
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To: gridlock

That’s your off-center spacing for standard wall studs. It will give you five studs for every 8 feet (useful for plywood, sheetrock, etc.


34 posted on 07/21/2008 5:11:10 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
It will give you five studs for every 8 feet

Stop. You're making Madonna drool.

35 posted on 07/21/2008 5:12:55 AM PDT by CholeraJoe (Gruntled)
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To: CholeraJoe
Oh, yeah, like the old joke about the guy who went to heaven, but St. Peter told him heaven was full and he'd have to go back to earth and wait -- but while he was waiting he could be anything he wanted.

Guy gives a big grin and says, "I wanna be a stud!"

. . . so now he's a 2 by 4 in Kansas City . . . .

36 posted on 07/21/2008 5:14:24 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

If I measure from the outside of one stud to the outside of the next stud, if they are 16” OC, it is 17 3/4” or so, not 19 7/32”.


37 posted on 07/21/2008 5:14:25 AM PDT by gridlock (Al Gore wants YOU to live like the Flintstones while HE lives like the Jetsons. .. FREE LAZAMATAZ!)
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To: gridlock
It leaves half of the last stud on each end exposed to fit the next sheet on.

(don't ask me how it works - I just know it does!)

38 posted on 07/21/2008 5:16:20 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

I got ya. Five to eight instead of 6 to eight. Nice. If you are trying to go light on construction, but don’t want to go all the way up to 24” OC, you go to the diamonds and put the 8’ sheetrock sideways.


39 posted on 07/21/2008 5:32:09 AM PDT by gridlock (Al Gore wants YOU to live like the Flintstones while HE lives like the Jetsons. .. FREE LAZAMATAZ!)
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To: gridlock
Yep. Works for floors too, where you would NOT want to go to 24!

We're going to be building again soon, and I am totally spooked by the engineered-wood floor trusses. Are they stable? Do they work? Do they squeak?

40 posted on 07/21/2008 6:16:12 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

Engineered wood is great stuff, as long as you are absolutely, positively sure it will never be in a wet location. Once it is in a wet location, all bets are off.

So if you are doing interior work and you have a fair amount of confidence that the roof won’t have a chronic leak and you will not have any long-term plumbing problems, it is great stuff. Solid and stable and better than lumber, IMHO. But I had a 12x24 glue-lam beam that wound up under a small leak where I work, and the entire thing delaminated over time. By the time we detected the leak because of the deformation, it was too late, and the entire beam had to be replaced, which was a tricky process, to say the least.


41 posted on 07/21/2008 7:11:28 AM PDT by gridlock (Al Gore wants YOU to live like the Flintstones while HE lives like the Jetsons. .. FREE LAZAMATAZ!)
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To: gridlock
I just KNEW there was a catch!

I always assume that EVERYTHING leaks! That way I'm never disappointed, only pleasantly surprised.

One of the big plusses of designing our own place (we did it once before) is that we can put our heads together with the architect and do sensible planning for HVAC and plumbing. E.g., our old house had one wet wall, the kitchen and the bath were back-to-back, and we left the sheetrock off that wall in the laundry room down in the basement.

This was very handy when the contractor left the water on during a hard freeze before we moved in . . . . very easy to fix!

42 posted on 07/21/2008 7:16:51 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
I always assume that EVERYTHING leaks!

I always assume that I am building for 100 years, and for at least 20 of those years, the building will be owned by a complete moron who never fixes anything. I think this pretty much sums up the situation of every old building I have ever had the "pleasure" of working with.

If you are building for 20 years, engineered wood is a safe bet. If you are building for 100 years, less so.

43 posted on 07/21/2008 7:24:15 AM PDT by gridlock (Al Gore wants YOU to live like the Flintstones while HE lives like the Jetsons. .. FREE LAZAMATAZ!)
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To: gridlock
It's pricier, but I think we'll stick with what we know.

We are moving back to a small house because the last kid is about to leave the nest. So we'll build it small but build it right.

And have a pole barn to keep all our junk . . . . :-D

44 posted on 07/21/2008 7:28:57 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: gridlock

The metric system has a more rational basis, rather than a guesstimate of the length of some ruler’s thumb several centuries ago or the packaging habits of mediaeval farmers.

Multiplying and dividing by powers of two and three made sense when almost all measuring was done by eyeball, but it’s not well-suited for precise measurements or large numbers. We have a decimal numbering system, so a decimal system of measurement is a no-brainer.

It also makes all sorts of calculations easier. For example: How many gallons in a cubic foot of water? Time to bust out the calculator (for the record, 7.4805195). How many liters in a cubic meter? 1 million cc = 1000 liters. Top-of-the-head math. It’s not just a coincidence that physics, medicine and chemistry settled on SI units a long time ago.

I believe that the metric system is superior, and that there’s not much debate about it. That leaves two other questions: 1) Whether it should be imposed on commerce by the government, and 2) whether it should be imposed by treaty on one country by an international body.

The answer to 1 is yes, to at least some degree. The government has to maintain standard weights and measures if it is going to even attempt to prohibit unfair trade. You can’t have each seller defining “ounce” his own way.

The answer to 2 is a little bit trickier. International trade requires standard measures, just as domestic trade does. But since acreage is neither imported nor exported, is its measurement really a matter of the EU’s concern?


45 posted on 07/21/2008 8:32:00 AM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: bruinbirdman

4,840 square yards

IOW 10 square chains


46 posted on 07/21/2008 8:35:32 AM PDT by RightWhale (I will veto each and every beer)
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To: AnAmericanMother
Metric system is IMPOSSIBLE for carpentry!

Carpentry has its own set of measures, at least for lumber dimensions. It would seem logical that if you stack two 2x4s you'd have a 4x4. No.

Of course, my carpentry experience is from working on old (for these purposes, 40 years and up) houses, where nothing is square, nothing is plumb, nothing is level, and all figures to the right-hand side of the decimal are not to be trusted.

47 posted on 07/21/2008 8:42:20 AM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: ReignOfError

So, which makes more sense to you, the length of some ruler’s thumb (which is probably pretty close to the length of the thumb located at the end of your arm), or 1/10,000,000 the distance from the pole to the equator, as it passes through Paris, France? Having never walked from the pole to the equator, I have no idea how far that is, much less 1/10,000,000th of that distance. But as the possessor of two M1/A1 Mod0 thumbs, I know pretty much how big they are.

For some things, SI is better, and it already predominates in these areas. Ask a chemist to do something in ounces or cups, and you will be greeted with a blank stare. But for the majority of things for the majority of people every day, it has no great advantage.

I take a modified libertarian view. Measures must be standardized, but people should be allowed to use whatever standardized measure they want. In the US, this will mean that English measures will continue to be used for a long time to come for most things, while certain technical trades will go their own way.


48 posted on 07/21/2008 8:44:27 AM PDT by gridlock (Al Gore wants YOU to live like the Flintstones while HE lives like the Jetsons. .. FREE LAZAMATAZ!)
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To: Does so
"I'd be curious if Canadians build frame houses today using the Metric system."

Yeah, what's the cost of wood per board centimeter?

yitbos

49 posted on 07/21/2008 10:07:41 AM PDT by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds." - Ayn Rand)
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To: bert

That has to tell you something.


50 posted on 07/21/2008 10:23:25 AM PDT by Parmy
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