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OPEN SEASON: Firearms fee an attempt to subvert gun rights (MA)
southcoasttoday.com ^ | July 20, 2008 | Marc Folco

Posted on 07/21/2008 10:58:06 AM PDT by neverdem

Gov. Deval Patrick filed a special appropriations bill for fiscal year 2008 that would drastically increase the fees for certain firearm licenses. The cost of the License to Carry Firearms would double under the proposal, jumping from $100 (for six years) to $200 (for six years). The non-resident License to Carry Firearms fee would jump from $100 for one year to $250 for one year.

Licensed firearm dealers will also feel the bite as their license fees would be increased from $100 for three years to $250. The governor then adds a $100 inspection fee in the second and third years of the license, which would turn the current $100 three-year dealer's license into a $450 three-year license.

Last month, the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment indeed guarantees American citizens the right to keep and bear arms, and experts predicted that the gun grabbers would try to use other tactics to keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens — and they were right. Not even a month has passed and the governor is already trying to tax a constitutional right out of reach.

"In light of the recent Supreme Court ruling, this new proposal from the Governor can only be viewed as an attempt to tax people out of their civil rights," said Jim Wallace, executive director of the Gun Owners' Action League. "With this new proposal, the Governor continues to demonstrate his willingness to attack lawful gun owners while doing nothing to reduce violent crime. The highest court in the nation has ruled that citizens have an individual right to possess a firearm and now our Governor is trying to tax us out of that right!"

Other New England states charge the following for a license to carry firearms: New Hampshire: $10 (good for four years); Rhode Island: $40 (good for four years); Connecticut: $35 (five years); and Maine: $35 (four years). So, while other New England residents pay an average of $7 a year for a firearms license, the governor in Mass. wants to gouge us out of $33 per year, almost five times what the residents in neighboring states pay — for a constitutional right. And then a three-year dealer license is jumping $350.

"Gov. Patrick feels he can now try to supplement the budget deficit on the backs of small mom-and-pop businesses and law-abiding gun owners," said Jake McGuigan, the director of government relations for the National Shooting Sports Foundation Director. "Clearly, the goal of this administration is to further restrict the rights of its citizens and businesses through a hefty Second Amendment tax."

All citizens are urged to contact their representatives and senators and ask them to make sure this ridiculous tax on our rights does not pass into law. What's next? A $200 fee to peaceably assemble, choose a religion, speak your mind or publish your thoughts and ideas?

State honors outdoorsman, conservationist
Michael Yacino, a longtime champion of Massachusetts sportsmen and women, received the Gov. Francis W. Sargent Conservation Award this week for his contributions to conserving the Commonwealth's natural resources. Yacino, of Douglas, is the seventh recipient of the award established in 2000 by the Mass. Fisheries and Wildlife Board and named in honor of the former governor and noted conservationist who directed the Massachusetts Division of Fisheries and Wildlife (DFW) in 1963 and '64.

"Mike Yacino has been a tremendous supporter of Massachusetts's conservation and land protection efforts, as well as an effective leader in protecting sportsmen's interests and educating young people regarding wildlife conservation and outdoor skills," said Department of Fish and Game Commissioner Mary Griffin, whose department includes the MassWildlife.

An avid hunter, fisherman and competitive shooter, Yacino served as executive director of the Gun Owners' Action League from 1977 to 2005. He has supported a range of conservation initiatives in Massachusetts, including funding for open space preservation, legislation to create the Wildlands Conservation Stamp, and the Rivers Protection Act of 1996. Yacino is also an outdoor writer, a supporter of youth outdoor recreational opportunities, and was a leader in the 1998 Lead Shot Initiative, a program designed to educate shooting range operators about environmentally responsible management of spent ammunition.

"Mike Yacino has been a life-long advocate for wildlife conservation and sportsmen's activities," said Fisheries and Wildlife Board Chairman George Darey. "He has been one of the principal voices in ensuring that sportsmen's license fees support professional wildlife management and protect valuable wildlife habitat."

Animal-rights activist serving time
It's taken a year, but New Jersey animal-rights activist Albert "Ali" Kazemian, 51, is finally serving the 30-day jail sentence he received last year for tampering with bear traps on a neighbor's property, according to The Outdoor Wire.

State Fish and Wildlife officers had set the trap to capture and remove a bear reportedly seen in the neighborhood. Kazemian was caught by officers while pouring human urine from a gallon jug near the bear trap.

In Vernon Municipal Court he eventually pleaded guilty to resisting arrest and obstruction of justice, his second conviction in Vernon. In 2006, he was convicted of the same charges for interfering with hunters in the state's 2005 bear hunt.

On Friday, Superior Court Judge N. Peter Conforti refused to stay Kazemian's sentence, ordering him to begin serving the sentence immediately. At that point, Kazemian was handcuffed and taken to the county jail. "His conduct has been consistent to violate the law," Conforti said.

Massachusetts has a similar "hunter harassment" law which imposes jail sentences and stiff penalties for interfering with a hunter(s).

Marc Folco is the outdoor writer for The Standard Times. Contact him at openseason1988@aol.com


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: Massachusetts; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: banglist; ccw; cwii; govwatch; secondamendment; taxes
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1 posted on 07/21/2008 10:58:09 AM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

A fine is a tax for doing wrong.

A tax is a fine for doing well.

A fee is a tax for exercising a right.


2 posted on 07/21/2008 11:01:40 AM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (Vigilantism will arise where the justice system is viewed as overly lenient and/or ineffective.)
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To: neverdem

Governor Patrick is acting like those southern governors who instituted expensive poll taxs on ‘uppity’ minority voters.


3 posted on 07/21/2008 11:01:42 AM PDT by AU72
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To: neverdem

I think any permitting fee is an abridgment of our rights.

But at a minimum, any permitting fee should be limited to the cost of running a permitting scheme.


4 posted on 07/21/2008 11:02:19 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Coleus; jocon307; Alberta's Child; Pharmboy; Calpernia; Malsua; dead; nj26; OldFriend; Clemenza; ...

Don’t miss the last section, “Animal-rights activist serving time.”


5 posted on 07/21/2008 11:08:54 AM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: Hegemony Cricket
"A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well. A fee is a tax for exercising a right."

Sometimes, but not usually. Usually...


6 posted on 07/21/2008 11:09:36 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: neverdem
I have a feeling that this might be a good thing. Assuming it is enforced by Massachusetts in some way that damages its citizens, it will give a reasonable number of people standing to challenge the whole idea of license and tax on something that is more obviously a Constitutional right than the right to vote. (Remember the poll tax?)

ML/NJ

7 posted on 07/21/2008 11:11:28 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: neverdem

Every single time I read a story like this one, I thank God that I left Massachusetts years ago.

It must be the loopiest state in the Union.

Can you imagine what John Adams would think of this legislation?

Gov. Patrick(one of the biggest meatheads to sit in a governor’s chair) actually thinks that if you take guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens, that act will make things safer for MA citizens.

This is pretzel logic in its finest form.


8 posted on 07/21/2008 11:26:37 AM PDT by RexBeach ("Americans never quit!" Douglas MacArthur)
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To: DannyTN

Well, yeah, I was being fairly general, and you went and got all specific on me... :-)


9 posted on 07/21/2008 11:27:05 AM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (Vigilantism will arise where the justice system is viewed as overly lenient and/or ineffective.)
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To: DannyTN

The funny part is, if you incur a fine or pay a fee as a business, it’s a tax deduction!


10 posted on 07/21/2008 11:28:55 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: MrB

Not true. You can not deduct fines (for supposed wrong doing) for your Pre-tax earnings to get to taxable earnings.

Fees on the other hand, then yes, that is a tax deduction.

I knew this would be their next play. Miller does us no good and Heller hasn’t overturned the fact that a “right” can’t be “liscenced.” Thus, they will try their damnedest to tax it out of the “common mans” economic capacity, and thus make it an “elite” thing when the elites are already in the facisists back pocket.


11 posted on 07/21/2008 11:39:11 AM PDT by fightinbluhen51 ("...If it moves, tax it, if it moves faster, regulate it, if it stops, subsidies it.")
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To: neverdem

Well, my “Privilege License” from NC is $50 each year.

Gotta pay the state $50 a year so I can be employ myself and be in business.

Taxes and fees add up - I pay a ton of them.


12 posted on 07/21/2008 11:40:40 AM PDT by PeteB570 (Keeping an eye on the Frying Pan Shoals Buoy)
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To: neverdem

More guns..more ammo...more range time!


13 posted on 07/21/2008 11:41:31 AM PDT by rrrod
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To: ml/nj
...it will give a reasonable number of people standing to challenge the whole idea ...

That is correct but.....I still have a problem understanding why if the pro-abortion group feels a rule (law, ordinance) violates their "right to abortion" in any way, they can get an injunction stopping implementation of such rule within 24 hours or less. It then takes up to years in court to get any kind of actual ruling and disposition. When such rule/law/ordinance is limiting a citizen's 2nd Amendment "right" defined by the Supreme Court of the U.S., we whine and moan and obey the rule/law/ordinance for years while (if ever) it is being challenged in court.

14 posted on 07/21/2008 11:42:22 AM PDT by TexasRedeye (Eschew obfuscation)
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To: fightinbluhen51

Oh, I see this as a master chess player (I’m not) would see a game -

“uh, after that move, you have 4 more moves until you’re beaten”
“I could do something you don’t expect”
“in that case, you have 3 moves”

Our move: The ussc has stated unequivocally that the 2nd is an individual right.

Their move: they are imposing taxes, fees, and other hurdles to the right to KEEP AND BEAR arms.

Our move: Next decision needs to contain the words “no undue burden”, and they’re done.

Look at the voting rights issue and abortion for examples of how this was used in the past.


15 posted on 07/21/2008 11:48:54 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Hegemony Cricket
You may be interested in the following. I found it here.

"NO STATE may convert a RIGHT into a PRIVILEGE and require a LICENSE or FEE for the exercise of that RIGHT!!! Please see MURDOCK vs. PENNSYLVANIA, 319 U.S. 105, and if a STATE does erroneously do require A LICENSE OR FEE for exercise of the RIGHT, the Citizen may IGNORE THE LICENSE AND OR FEE and exercise the RIGHT WITH TOTAL IMPUNITY!!! Please see SCHUTTLESWORTH vs. BIRMINGHAM 373 U.S. 262. YOU CAN NOT BE PUNISHED FOR THE EXERCISE OF A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT!!! Please see MILLER vs. UNITED STATES 230 F2nd 486. You have a PERFECT DEFENSE TO THE ELEMENT OF WILLFULLNESS if you rely on the advice of Counsel or upon a DECISION OF THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT AS A DEFENSE. Please see U.S. vs. BISHOP, 412 U.S. 346. If the Prosecution who bears entirely the proofs beyond a TOTAL REASONABLE DOUBT can NOT prove WILLFUL INTENT TO AVOID AND KNOWN DUTY OR TASK UNDER THE LAW WITH A MORAL CERTAINTY, said Prosecutor does NOT HAVE A CAUSE OF ACTION FOR WHICH A COURT OF LAW MAY GRANT RELIEF TO HIM/HER, and thereby has NO CASE AT LAW!!!! FACT!!!!! See Michigan Court Rule 2.116 (c) (8) FAILURE TO STATE A CAUSE OF ACTION FOR WHICH RELIEF MAY BE GRANTED BY THE COURT."

Semper Fi
An Old Man

PS: I agree with your Tag Line.

16 posted on 07/21/2008 11:54:59 AM PDT by An Old Man ("The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they suppress." Douglas)
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To: neverdem
Gov. Deval Patrick filed a special appropriations bill for fiscal year 2008 that would drastically increase the fees for certain firearm licenses.

Smacks of a poll tax, doesn't it. A "right" isn't really a right if it is controlled to the point of not being able to exercise it. The lawsuits will continue. Thanks to H vs DC the fight will be on a new level.

17 posted on 07/21/2008 12:21:29 PM PDT by RobinOfKingston (Man, that's stupid ... even by congressional standards.)
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To: neverdem

Seems to me that the “full faith and credit” clause comes into play here. If my drivers license, etc, are recognized by the other 49 states a carry permit (or hunting license enabling open carry) should also be recognized.


18 posted on 07/21/2008 12:28:06 PM PDT by RobinOfKingston (Man, that's stupid ... even by congressional standards.)
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To: An Old Man

This is a great post/comment. But as with anyone doing battle against Big Brother, be warned that you had better have ample time and ample funds to carry on the fight, regardless of your legal standing. If the law and constitution were actually adhered to by the left, this website probably wouldn’t even exist.


19 posted on 07/21/2008 12:30:18 PM PDT by Oldpuppymax (AGENDA OF THE LEFT EXPOSED)
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To: DannyTN

>But at a minimum, any permitting fee should be limited to the cost of running a permitting scheme.<

WRONG!!! I could push the cost up out of sight by hiring and paying for more lawyers than I need to do the job.


20 posted on 07/21/2008 12:37:40 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Having custody of a loaded weapon does not arm you. The skill to use the weapon is what arms a man.)
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To: Oldpuppymax
Have you observed the breadth and depth of the Grand Canyon? That little ditch was dug by droplets of water from many sources acting in concert over a long period of time.

As individuals, neither you nor I will last long enough to see a similar fate befall the socialists in Washington. As Citizens of the United States, we also can act in concert to eliminate the obstacles to exercising our rights, or, we can fall back on the 2nd Amendment and compress the time line while simultaneously eliminating many who would seek to enslave us.

This just might be another of those times where if we do not all hang together, we will most likely hang individually.

21 posted on 07/21/2008 12:50:36 PM PDT by An Old Man ("The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they suppress." Douglas)
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To: neverdem

They can’t ban guns so they find a way to effectively do the same thing without calling it a ban. The left is clever and experienced at finding ways of violating the Constitution and getting away with it.


22 posted on 07/21/2008 1:07:56 PM PDT by BooksForTheRight.com (Fight liberal lies with knowledge. Read conservative books and articles.)
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To: ml/nj
(Remember the poll tax?)

Sure do. It was $1.50 in VA. It was mentioned in the recent Voter ID case, so I made a note of it.

383 U.S. 663 Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections

23 posted on 07/21/2008 1:43:01 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: BooksForTheRight.com

They always are.

My question is, how does the “revolution” look? Is it taking shape?


24 posted on 07/21/2008 1:49:55 PM PDT by fightinbluhen51 ("...If it moves, tax it, if it moves faster, regulate it, if it stops, subsidies it.")
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To: B4Ranch
"WRONG!!! I could push the cost up out of sight by hiring and paying for more lawyers than I need to do the job."

Yeah, I thought about that. The permit fee should be no more than a "reasonable" cost of permitting, not some bloated department where the gun haters put all their friend on the payroll.

25 posted on 07/21/2008 3:53:55 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

Make it the same as a driver license. Good for 10 years.


26 posted on 07/21/2008 4:21:01 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Having custody of a loaded weapon does not arm you. The skill to use the weapon is what arms a man.)
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To: neverdem

Hire a stupid bureaucrat to file away a piece of paper - $1.

Buy stupid bureaucrat a name tag that says he’s a stupid bureaucrat - $1.

Hang plaque outside stupid bureaucrat’s door that says “Gun Free Zone” - $1.

Anything beyond that is infringement.


27 posted on 07/21/2008 4:31:50 PM PDT by sergeantdave (We are entering the Age of the Idiot)
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To: B4Ranch

I got to disagree with most on this thread. I want to know if the Second Amendment, as affirmed by the USSC, states that I have a right to own a firearm for defense of self, family and property then WHY do I need a license to exercise that right?


28 posted on 07/21/2008 4:51:12 PM PDT by 41Thunder (The truth will set you free...just ask Bill Clinton)
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To: 41Thunder

Exactly!

WHY do I need a license to exercise that right??????????????????


29 posted on 07/21/2008 7:16:55 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Having custody of a loaded weapon does not arm you. The skill to use the weapon is what arms a man.)
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To: TexasRedeye; wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; ...
Hat tip to TexasRedeye! We need to get INJUNCTIONS against the enforcement of any new gun control laws since we now have an individual right to keep and bear arms recognized by the SCOTUS.

Surge Protector ("a long-term security arrangement between the United States and Iraq")

Real Time News and its Enemies (Pelosi!)

Home invasion by the State (UK)

All aboard the NYC Jihad Train!

From time to time, I’ll ping on noteworthy articles about politics, foreign and military affairs. FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

30 posted on 07/22/2008 8:02:45 AM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: AU72
Governor Patrick is acting like those Democrat southern governors who instituted expensive poll taxs on ‘uppity’ minority voters.

There, fixed it.

31 posted on 07/22/2008 8:04:32 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (<===Non-bitter, Gun-totin', Typical White American)
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To: ml/nj; neverdem

Poll tax was the first thing I thought of. Can you imagine if we had to go through the same rigamarole for voting that we do for keeping and bearing arms? (or even assembly, some speech, lots of religious activities)

And don’t tell me a vote can’t kill. Look how long it took to enact the Partial Birth Abortion Ban and the Born Alive Protection Act.


32 posted on 07/22/2008 8:20:35 AM PDT by hocndoc (http://www.LifeEthics.org (I have a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.))
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To: hocndoc

See comment# 23. LOL at myself, my mind locked on Harper’s Ferry, a la John Brown’s raid, when I tried to retrieve the decision. The correct name is Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections.


33 posted on 07/22/2008 8:43:41 AM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: neverdem
"Home Invasion by the State (UK)" actually goes to "All aboard the NYC Jihad Train"

Just thought you might want to know...

Cheers!

34 posted on 07/22/2008 4:52:07 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: neverdem

Thanks for the ping!


35 posted on 07/22/2008 9:27:50 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: DannyTN
# A fee is a payment for a specific service rendered. (A $10 permit fee for 4 years is a fee to cover the cost of permitting. A $100 fee per year, is a punishment meant to discourange gun ownership.

And the requirement for a permit is an infringement. As such it is verboten, ya?

36 posted on 07/22/2008 10:41:40 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: 41Thunder; An Old Man; sergeantdave; B4Ranch

Concur with you all.

Licensing? Infringement.
Anything beyond sales tax is infringement!


37 posted on 07/23/2008 3:38:13 PM PDT by Freemeorkillme
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To: Freemeorkillme; 41Thunder; An Old Man; sergeantdave; Czar; hiredhand

I think that most Americans will allow us to drop into socialism without anything more than an occassional wimper. The idea of fighting for their rights and liberties is so foreign and disgusting to them that they can’t imagine supporting anyone who wants to do or heaven forbid, doing it themselves.

......, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.” ..........it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Thomas Jefferson, 1776.


38 posted on 07/23/2008 3:51:23 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Having custody of a loaded weapon does not arm you. The skill to use the weapon is what arms a man.)
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To: neverdem
The cost of the License to Carry Firearms would double under the proposal, jumping from $100 (for six years) to $200

This is nothing more than a reenactment of the racist based poll tax and is designed to keep law abiding citizens of limited means the ability to legally "Purchase the right" to defend themselves.

Paging Justice Brothers Jackson and Sharpton........

39 posted on 07/23/2008 4:01:16 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco
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To: neverdem

This is nothing new. These anti-civil rights laws are, and always have been, racist and elitist.

Read this:
Civil rights organization fights elitists and racists

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0708/0708racistgunlaws.htm


40 posted on 07/23/2008 4:10:47 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: B4Ranch
"I think that most Americans will allow us to drop into socialism without anything more than an occasional whimper. "

You are referring of course, to most of the posters on this thread, I assume.

I can't for the life of me figure out why people who otherwise seem quite normal argue that paying the government to exercise their rights is a good thing. It didn't used to be like that.

Semper Fi
An Old Man

41 posted on 07/23/2008 4:59:46 PM PDT by An Old Man ("The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they suppress." Douglas)
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To: An Old Man
I am referring to the majority of the citizens in the USA. Only a very tiny percentage feel that a free America is worthy of their physical effort.

It's fine to support the military but when it comes to 'you' stepping out into the line of fire, where the wax actually meets the flame, then we demand that different standards should apply. And that's the part I don't comprehend. Anyone over 50 has already lived the most exciting and wonderful stages of their lives, why should they be terrified of dying for their kids and grandkids. Instead we ask the youngsters who haven't yet experienced 1/10th of the fun we've had to give their lives, to give their lives for us.

42 posted on 07/23/2008 6:13:36 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Having custody of a loaded weapon does not arm you. The skill to use the weapon is what arms a man.)
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To: B4Ranch
"why should they be terrified of dying for their kids and grandkids"

You are opening a very deep can of worms! It is not the death part that bothers men, it is the fear of being hurt. I don.t have time to go into this, but, the young ones have always born the burden.

If you do need some help, I can probably round up a company sized unit if need be.

Semper Fi
An Old Man

43 posted on 07/24/2008 10:29:15 AM PDT by An Old Man ("The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they suppress." Douglas)
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To: RexBeach
Can you imagine what John Adams would think of this legislation?

I would not presume to speak for the late Mr. Adams, who in any event, left a wealth of his worthy thoughts behind in print for us to consider.

I do have a guess or two about what former Boston bookseller Henry Knox [for whom Ft Knox, Kentucky is named, among his other many accomplishments] would have thought about it, however. And I also have a fair idea what he'd have done about it.


44 posted on 07/24/2008 5:33:52 PM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: An Old Man; Eaker; AK2KX; Ancesthntr; ApesForEvolution; archy; backhoe; bayouranger; Badray; ...
If you do need some help, I can probably round up a company sized unit if need be.

Give me a ping if you require any armor support for your flanks, or would like to have a couple of Gurkhas on your side helping keep the other folks from getting much sleep at night.

45 posted on 07/24/2008 5:43:31 PM PDT by archy (Et Thybrim multo spumantem sanguine cerno. [from Virgil's *Aeneid*.])
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To: archy

Former 19-D30, NRA Life Member, and Distinguished Rifleman Badge holder, reporting as ordered.


46 posted on 07/24/2008 5:49:51 PM PDT by Tailback
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To: archy; B4Ranch
Here's one pushing 50 Marine vet who won't be afraid to get his hands dirty again when the metal meets the meat.

And that day is coming. Of that, I have no doubt.

L

47 posted on 07/24/2008 6:04:38 PM PDT by Lurker (Islam is an insane death cult. Any other aspects are PR, to get them within throat-cutting range.)
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To: Lurker

Coming and coming sooner than most want to see it. Prepare now.


48 posted on 07/24/2008 6:18:39 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Having custody of a loaded weapon does not arm you. The skill to use the weapon is what arms a man.)
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To: B4Ranch
Have been for years my friend.

Take care,

L

49 posted on 07/24/2008 6:27:19 PM PDT by Lurker (Islam is an insane death cult. Any other aspects are PR, to get them within throat-cutting range.)
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To: archy; An Old Man

Can I take point?


50 posted on 07/24/2008 6:59:41 PM PDT by wastedyears (Show me your precious darlings, and I will crush them all)
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