Posted on 07/23/2008 1:00:22 PM PDT by nickcarraway
I'm not trying to impart any malicious motives on your part and I apologize if I came across that way. Churchill is one of my heroes and I really don't think he would have callously placed the lives of thousands of American civilians in jeopardy that way.
You know your history as well as Jerome Brown I see:
Did the Japanese go and sit down and have dinner with Pearl Harbor before they bombed 'em?
;)
Yeah. That's it. That's the ticket.
I guess that's why we are planning on sending diplomats to Iran, again...
Historian Niall Ferguson, now at Harvard, says that the single most catastrophic decision of the 20th Century was Britain's decision to enter WWI. If they hadn't done this, he says, the Germans would have quickly beaten the French and Europe today would be a peaceful continent under benevolent German hegemony, a bit like the EU of today. But no Russian Revolution, communism, Nazism, Holocaust, etc. An interesting thesis. Not sure I agree but he makes an interesting point.
“Churchill is one of my heroes and I really don’t think he would have callously placed the lives of thousands of American civilians in jeopardy that way. “
First, leaders make sacrifices. Coventry was not good for the local residents, but it was done in WWII.
It is hard to go back 90+ years and speculate well, but at one point I was well-read on the subject and the idea that the decision (and it WAS a decision, presumably taken by the admiralty) to place armaments on the largest UK-flagged passenger liners (note - I don’t know if Mauratania or Olympic carried them, Britannic was a hospital ship in the Med. and never saw passenger service iirc) was taken unaware of the implications *if one was sunk* seemed and seems very unlikely. They knew damn well it would PO the yanks and the yank press.
The fact churchill was sacked almost immediately afterward raises at least the possibility that someone was very unhappy with what they were told about the legality/cargo involved in the sinking.
My Gandfather use to tell stories of working as a stoker on Coal ships in Ireland when he was 14 years old or so (1912). The trick was to throw the coal in and then duck forward all in one motion. Failure to do it correctly resulted in a flash fire of coal dust hitting you in the face. He'd say:
"Not enough to seriously hurt you though, just singe your hair and eyebrows off"
Wood mills are subject to the same explosive force with wood dust explosions.
And that was after Japan bombed London, doncha know...
***The RMS Lusitania sank off the coast of Cork in May 1915 when a German U-boat torpedoed it. An undetermined second explosion is believed to have speeded its sinking, with 1,198 passengers and crew losing their lives. ***
If I remember my history, the German embassy took out adds in the NY newspapers warning passengers that the ship was carrying munitions of war to the English and would be a legitimate target.
Good one!
And, by God, they did. We still have more than 10% of their working population living illegally in our Country. Some wars never seem to end.
Riddle of Lusitania sinking may finally be solved
“The RMS Lusitania sank off the coast of Cork in May 1915 when a German U-boat torpedoed it.”
Riddle solved.
As for Coventry, I recently read that the story of Churchill knowing Coventry was a target but deliberately didn't warn the city is a myth. All the British knew in advance was that there would be a raid that day, but they didn't know the target. Can't recall where I read that, unfortunately.
Nah. Those spikes were so the guys could stick it upside down in the ground and use it to poop in...or so I've always thought :)
Our guys don't need that kinda thing anymore.
As for Coventry, I recently read that the story of Churchill knowing Coventry was a target but deliberately didn't warn the city is a myth. All the British knew in advance was that there would be a raid that day, but they didn't know the target. Can't recall where I read that, unfortunately.
Hundreds of U.S. Ships? Could you provide proof? I am only aware of two U.S. ships sunk: the SS Housatonic, and the SS California, both in February, 1917. (Germany had ended unrestricted submarine warfare from September 1915- February 1917)
Oh - another conspiracy nut.
Every one knows it was Bush’s fault!
Not that it's relevant in this case, but under U.S. railroad regulations the shipper bears nearly all the responsibility for what they are shipping when it comes to safety, regulatory requirements, etc. -- not the carrier.
Very interesting point. A friend of mine astutely pointed out that Europe today looks an awful lot like the Germans wanted it to look back in the early 20th century . . . a largely pacified, modern continent with a robust economy dominated by Germany.
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