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Zogby:One in Five Americans Believe States Have the Right to Secede (43% of Hispanics)
Zogby International ^ | July 23 2008

Posted on 07/25/2008 6:39:42 AM PDT by DemonDeac

"One in five American adults - 22% - believe that any state or region has the right to "peaceably secede from the United States and become an independent republic," a new Middlebury Institute/Zogby International telephone poll shows."

"Broken down by race, the highest percentage agreeing with the right to secede was among Hispanics (43%) and African-Americans (40%). Among white respondents, 17% said states or regions should have the right to peaceably secede."

"Politically, liberal thinkers were much more likely to favor the right to secession for states and regions, as 32% of mainline liberals agreed with the concept. Among the very liberal the support was only slightly less enthusiastic - 28% said they favored such a right. Meanwhile, just 17% of mainline conservatives thought it should exist as an option for states or regions of the nation."

(Excerpt) Read more at zogby.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008polls; aliens; azatlan; civilwar; dixie; secede; secession; south

1 posted on 07/25/2008 6:39:43 AM PDT by DemonDeac
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To: DemonDeac

“Politically, liberal thinkers were much more likely to favor the right to secession for states and regions, as 32% of mainline liberals agreed with the concept. Among the very liberal the support was only slightly less enthusiastic - 28% said they favored such a right. Meanwhile, just 17% of mainline conservatives thought it should exist as an option for states or regions of the nation.”

I’m in favor of letting liberals secede.


2 posted on 07/25/2008 6:40:53 AM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: DemonDeac

Perhaps we should translate the Constitution into Spanish. /sarc


3 posted on 07/25/2008 6:41:17 AM PDT by Brian S. Fitzgerald
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To: DemonDeac
Gee, I wonder where they got that idea...

"When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary to dissolve the political bands which have connected them to another...."

4 posted on 07/25/2008 6:46:08 AM PDT by SouthTexas (Invert the 5-4 and you have no rights.)
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To: SouthTexas

Yep, our very on Declaration of Independence states that we have a right to peaceably secede from the Union.


5 posted on 07/25/2008 6:48:09 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: DemonDeac

I’ve seen this movie, and while it has a great ending it’s full of violence and trouble. Even though I know how it ends I don’t care to sit through it again.


6 posted on 07/25/2008 6:48:10 AM PDT by jwparkerjr
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To: DemonDeac

Obama will be the anti-Lincoln and allow the nation to crumble.


7 posted on 07/25/2008 6:48:21 AM PDT by PurpleMan
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To: DemonDeac

If you don’t want to be part of the US, then leave.


8 posted on 07/25/2008 6:50:19 AM PDT by ljco (I think the best possible social program is a job. - The Gipper)
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To: DemonDeac

“Broken down by race, the highest percentage agreeing with the right to secede was among Hispanics (43%) and African-Americans (40%)

Obama voters


9 posted on 07/25/2008 6:52:20 AM PDT by TornadoAlley3 ('GOP' : Get Our Petroleum)
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To: ljco

“If you don’t want to be part of the US, then leave.”

They may talk tough but they won’t do anything that jeopardizes their welfare and other government “aid.” Succeeding would.


10 posted on 07/25/2008 6:54:15 AM PDT by DemonDeac
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To: DemonDeac
The question was settled over a century ago.

By force of arms.

But settled nonetheless.

11 posted on 07/25/2008 6:54:26 AM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: DemonDeac

The States have no such right...

on the other hand, the People do.

jw


12 posted on 07/25/2008 7:00:12 AM PDT by JWinNC (www.anailinhisplace.net)
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To: DemonDeac
No surprise, probably that many who can't name the Vice President of the United States or their U.S. senator or think there are 57 states in the U.S. etc.
13 posted on 07/25/2008 7:00:48 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (I'm voting for McCain because he's white - credit Jeff Chandler)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Or whatever it takes. ;)

And then, there are those of us in Texas.


14 posted on 07/25/2008 7:02:33 AM PDT by SouthTexas (Invert the 5-4 and you have no rights.)
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To: DemonDeac

Then they’ll apply for foreign aid from the U.S.


15 posted on 07/25/2008 7:03:31 AM PDT by trublu
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To: DemonDeac
Sure a state can peacefully secede, all they need do is pass a Constitutional amendment that says they are no longer part of the Union! No problemo.
16 posted on 07/25/2008 7:05:12 AM PDT by allmendream (If "the New Yorker" makes a joke, and liberals don't get it, is it still funny?)
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To: ljco

The problem is what is “US”?

I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say there are two widely differing views on how things should be run (let’s just say for instance Conservative or Liberal, Big Government vs Small Government, and hot button issues such as Abortion, Gun Control, Immigration, etc.).


17 posted on 07/25/2008 7:07:31 AM PDT by Screaming_Gerbil (How do you know that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a muzzle flash?)
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To: DemonDeac

I wonder how many of these people even know what the word “secede” even means? I bet they thought the states have the right to “succeed” in taking your money and giving it to them.


18 posted on 07/25/2008 7:09:24 AM PDT by InvisibleChurch (the opposite of anything is holiness)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Yep, our very on Declaration of Independence states that we have a right to peaceably secede from the Union.

The Declaration of Independence may say that but is it in the Constitution of the United States of America?

The Declaration was settled by arms against the British Crown.
If one of the states wants to secede, let them draft their own Declaration and see if the fedgov lets them go.
It was tried once and failed. I wouldn't bet it would succeed now.

19 posted on 07/25/2008 7:09:30 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: DemonDeac

Ah, public education and latin american history. Such a potent combination...


20 posted on 07/25/2008 7:12:51 AM PDT by jagusafr ("Bugs, Mr. Rico! Zillions of 'em!" - Robert Heinlein)
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To: Just another Joe
It was tried once and failed. I wouldn't bet it would succeed now.

I tend to disagree. There was a galvanizing moral issue in the War Between the States that motivated northerners to fight hard against southern independence. There is no such issue today. Can you really imagine Washington and the American people generally fighting with the kind of sacrifices seen in the 1860's or 1940's to keep a conservative breakaway South Carolina (i.e, the Exodus project), or a hispanicized Arizona, in the Union?

I can't see it. I think if conservatives really did pull off an exodus to a state like S.C. and made it clear that they would fight tooth and nail, Washington would be forced to blink. Liberals would say 'let them go' not 'let's suffer a million casualties to keep them'.

21 posted on 07/25/2008 7:16:24 AM PDT by Liberty1970
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To: DemonDeac

This will rear its ugly head in about 30 years (fewer with Obama in charge) when an overwhelming Hispanic majority in California votes to secede.

South Carolina tried it in 1861. But America was populated with Americans then.

Don’t think the USA can’t dissolve overnight in this day and age? Ask the Soviet Union.


22 posted on 07/25/2008 7:17:05 AM PDT by oldbill
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To: oldbill

It might be well to remember the Democrat rallying cry of 1864. The slogan was, “The country as it was, the Constitution as it is.” What goes around, comes around.


23 posted on 07/25/2008 7:22:18 AM PDT by shrinkermd
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To: Just another Joe
...The Declaration was settled by arms against the British Crown. If one of the states wants to secede, let them draft their own Declaration and see if the fedgov lets them go. It was tried once and failed. I wouldn't bet it would succeed now.

Looking at history (Roman empire, etc.), I get the impression the way these things work without the central government crushing the insurrection is when the central government no longer has the strength to hold the states together, then they can split away from the central government.

Then there is the small matter of the individual states now on their own having to defend themselves against their neighbors once they are on their own.

I see it is the "cycles of civilization" theory that I read somewhere. It says that all societies go through the stages of (paraphrasing and simplifying here) Creation (struggle to make something), Complacency (relax when you have it made), Chaos (differences start to cause rifts in society), and Collapse (system falls apart due to lack of wealth vs demands or violence between groups within or from outside invaders).

The Collapse stage is kind of messy though...

24 posted on 07/25/2008 7:23:42 AM PDT by Screaming_Gerbil (How do you know that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a muzzle flash?)
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To: DemonDeac
Broken down by race, the highest percentage agreeing with the right to secede was among Hispanics (43%) and African-Americans (40%).This is exactly why McCain needs to wake up on border security. The Hispanics that want the border open are radicals and are simply using McCain to take over territory. American Hispanics aren't going to vote for McCain when they can get much more from a liberal. McCain is operating under the false assumption that these Hispanics want to become American or will respect American generosity.
25 posted on 07/25/2008 7:25:21 AM PDT by TheThinker (Capitalism is the natural result of a democratic government.)
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To: DemonDeac

Reminds me of this;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandela,_Massachusetts


26 posted on 07/25/2008 7:26:44 AM PDT by DancesWithBolsheviks
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To: DemonDeac
Not factually accurate, but I fervently believe that it SHOULD be so. How can one say that they support freedom and liberty on one hand, and yet disallow (and promote armed aggression against!!!) those in a region who simply do not wish to be a part of a nation any longer.

Of course, the required support would have to be at least a super-majority, and other issues would need to be addressed... but to say that such a region or population has, as its ONLY recourse, armed insurrection seems anathema to a just and righteous nation. IMHO.

27 posted on 07/25/2008 7:29:42 AM PDT by Teacher317 (Thank you Dith Pran for showing us what Communism brings)
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To: DemonDeac

That’s down from 55 percent 150 years ago . .


28 posted on 07/25/2008 7:33:43 AM PDT by WilliamReading
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To: Liberty1970
... I tend to disagree. There was a galvanizing moral issue in the War Between the States that motivated northerners to fight hard against southern independence. There is no such issue today. Can you really imagine Washington and the American people generally fighting with the kind of sacrifices seen in the 1860's or 1940's to keep a conservative breakaway South Carolina (i.e, the Exodus project), or a hispanicized Arizona, in the Union?

I can't see it. I think if conservatives really did pull off an exodus to a state like S.C. and made it clear that they would fight tooth and nail, Washington would be forced to blink. Liberals would say 'let them go' not 'let's suffer a million casualties to keep them'.

I think the Hispanics (the poor ones) will simply be one big voting block for the Democrats, and vote themselves as many entitlements as they can from the government. Why would they want to leave when they can be safe and taken care of as part of their own piece of the U.S.?

As to a Conservative exodus, the Federal Law enforcement and military would act to crush the movement. Any plan to break away from the U.S., no matter how radical or socialist the government in Washington is, has to deal with the reality that the militarized police forces under central government command would act to stop it.

I think the Soviet Union fell apart because we were pushing them to compete where they simply ran out of money. I would guess it will take a few generations for this country on its own to become poor enough and fragmented enough to not be able to be held together by force of arms.

But I could be wrong.

29 posted on 07/25/2008 7:35:29 AM PDT by Screaming_Gerbil (How do you know that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a muzzle flash?)
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To: SouthTexas

Acutally, you all have the right to split into four states with 8 senators. That would shake a few things up.


30 posted on 07/25/2008 7:39:00 AM PDT by Humvee (Beliefs are more powerful than facts - Paulus Atreides)
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To: DemonDeac
Some want a new Mexico just as corrupt as the original, but with themselves on the receiving end of the wealth transfer. It's more a lack of vision than anything else - they don't understand how a democratic republic can work for everyone's benefit and thus they fall back on the familiar, with different players in charge.
31 posted on 07/25/2008 7:39:31 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("One man's 'magic' is another man's engineering. 'Supernatural' is a null word." -- Robert Heinlein)
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To: DemonDeac

They do. They just can’t do it unilaterally. Or so the Supreme Court found in 1869.


32 posted on 07/25/2008 7:42:27 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Teacher317
How can one say that they support freedom and liberty on one hand, and yet disallow (and promote armed aggression against!!!) those in a region who simply do not wish to be a part of a nation any longer.

That was the contradiction in the Confederate States. They set themselves up as principled opponents of unwanted centralized power yet they refused the clear wishes of East Tennessee to remain loyal to the United States and wanted no part of the Confederacy.

33 posted on 07/25/2008 7:53:36 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: DemonDeac

I find it amazing how many posters on this thread have cited the Constitution. Perhaps they can show me where the Constitution:

Where the government can take your land to build shopping centers.

Where the government can try someone in multiple courts because they don’t like the ruling that one court comes out with.

Where the government can require you to fill out census papers including information that is none of their business(not just the 10 year census but anytime they feel like it) or threaten you with jail time.

Where the government can take your money or property and give it to anyone it feels is more deserving.

Where the government can tell you who you must or must not hire or fire in your own business.

Where the government can tell you who you must or must not rent your own property to and how much you can charge.

Where the government can tell you what you can and cannot say within 90 days of an election.

Where the government can take your children away from you if they do not agree your method of discipline or child rearing.

Where the government can require you to pay to have your children indoctrinated with ideas that are foreign to your own beliefs.

Where the government can increase sentences and penalties because you were ‘thinking’ improperly when you acted.

Where the government can enslave its people by taking any amount of their earnings that they see fit.

Where the government can tell you what you can or cannot build on your own private property because you may be causing pain to some toad.

Were the government ............. you get the idea.


34 posted on 07/25/2008 7:56:34 AM PDT by Bob Buchholz
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To: DemonDeac

It all depends on who’s in charge when the attempt is made.


35 posted on 07/25/2008 8:18:27 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Humvee

If Texas tells the fed we intend to split up, and the fed objects/doesn’t cooperate then the whole deal is off and we revert back to our own nation.


36 posted on 07/25/2008 8:25:43 AM PDT by txhurl
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To: DemonDeac
"Broken down by race, the highest percentage agreeing with the right to secede was among Hispanics (43%) and African-Americans (40%). Among white respondents, 17% said states or regions should have the right to peaceably secede."

I guess because Hispanics and Northern Urban Blacks have never really felt the sting of Sherman, or its aftereffects.

37 posted on 07/25/2008 8:39:43 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (A citizen using a weapon to shoot a criminal is the ultimate act of independence from government.)
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To: txflake
If Texas tells the fed we intend to split up, and the fed objects/doesn’t cooperate then the whole deal is off and we revert back to our own nation.

Unfortuntately that particular proviso was demolished during Re-Admission to the Union after the Civil War.

38 posted on 07/25/2008 8:45:22 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (A citizen using a weapon to shoot a criminal is the ultimate act of independence from government.)
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To: jwparkerjr

The Second Civil War (1997) (TV)

Directed by Joe Dante. With Beau Bridges, Joanna Cassidy, Phil Hartman. A simple immigration issue spins wildly out of control for those involved, ...
www.imdb.com/Title?0120086 - 49k

 I'v seen this movie too, except in real life it's Mayor Villa of Los Angeles sleeping with the news reporterette.

39 posted on 07/25/2008 9:24:04 AM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: DemonDeac
Actually Texas does have that right. When we became part of the United States we were a sovereign republic. One of the conditions of our joining the USA was the right of succession and the right to break the state up into 5 separate states if we so desired.
40 posted on 07/25/2008 9:41:07 AM PDT by cpdiii (roughneck, oilfield trash and proud of it, geologist, pilot, pharmacist, iconoclast.)
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To: Humvee

Or move the border from the Rio Grande to the Red and annex Mexico.


41 posted on 07/25/2008 9:53:21 AM PDT by SouthTexas (Invert the 5-4 and you have no rights.)
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To: Just another Joe

As you well know the Constitution is silent on the matter of secession however, the 10th Amendment reserves all rights not specifically granted to the federal government to the states. Therefore the federal government has no legal or constitutional power to prevent a state from leaving the union. Personally, there are a few that I would like to see secede; Mass, Conn, RI, NY, NJ, MD, CA, to name a few.


42 posted on 07/25/2008 10:08:39 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: txflake

If you studied current Texas racial demographics, you might conclude as I did that we would not be any better off if we seceded. Too many people in Texas have bought the big lie that government is there to support them.


43 posted on 07/25/2008 10:19:15 AM PDT by TexasRepublic (When hopelessness replaces hope, it opens the door to evil.)
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To: DemonDeac
It would be better to just kick a few states out.. and better yet just a few city's or county's here and there ...
44 posted on 07/25/2008 10:36:07 AM PDT by tophat9000 (:[....)
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To: DemonDeac

“Zogby:One in Five Americans Believe States Have the Right to Secede (43% of Hispanics)”

I wonder how many Americans know if this issue has ever come up before?


45 posted on 07/25/2008 11:36:33 AM PDT by Spok
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To: DemonDeac
I say we let all 50 states secede. Once they are all individual sovereign states, they can then be loosely tied to one another by a document which will limit what the federal government can do. Maybe we can add an "amendment" that would give any rights not specifically enumerated in this new document to the states.

I am just throwing ideas out off the top of my head.....

46 posted on 07/25/2008 11:57:28 AM PDT by nitzy (Take your pick: Globalism OR Limited Government)
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To: Slapshot68

It’s amazing to me that the ones who think they can succeed (according to this poll) are the ones who’ve gotten rid of all their guns.

I do doubt this poll. In my experience, it’s the conservative/libertarians who think that they can succeed.

For a long time, I’ve thought that it’s time for our nation to get a “divorce”. I say we give them one of the coasts. All liberals (socialists) who live in “The United States” can either relocate to “New Moscow” or live under the laws of the US.

I would also make it a law that any law-maker who tried to propose a law of a socialist/communist nature would be hung or given life in prison.

But then, I’m mean like that.


47 posted on 07/25/2008 12:03:28 PM PDT by Marie (Don't Tread on Me!)
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To: Bob Buchholz

re: #34

Great post.

I like the way you think.


48 posted on 07/25/2008 12:16:21 PM PDT by Big Red Clay (Greetings from the Big Red State)
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To: tophat9000
Lot of people though.


49 posted on 07/25/2008 12:37:12 PM PDT by MilspecRob (Most people don't act stupid, they really are.)
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To: ljco
If you don’t want to be part of the US, then leave.

I think that is what they are doing, just that they plan to take the land with them.

At least that is the goal of the reconquistas, and I am afraid they will succeed.

If only they were religious zealots it would be simple, we would just gas and burn them. Oh well..... Remember the Balkins, I guess.

50 posted on 07/25/2008 12:56:17 PM PDT by itsahoot (We will have world government. The only question is whether by conquest or consent.)
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