Posted on 07/25/2008 6:39:42 AM PDT by DemonDeac
"One in five American adults - 22% - believe that any state or region has the right to "peaceably secede from the United States and become an independent republic," a new Middlebury Institute/Zogby International telephone poll shows."
"Broken down by race, the highest percentage agreeing with the right to secede was among Hispanics (43%) and African-Americans (40%). Among white respondents, 17% said states or regions should have the right to peaceably secede."
"Politically, liberal thinkers were much more likely to favor the right to secession for states and regions, as 32% of mainline liberals agreed with the concept. Among the very liberal the support was only slightly less enthusiastic - 28% said they favored such a right. Meanwhile, just 17% of mainline conservatives thought it should exist as an option for states or regions of the nation."
(Excerpt) Read more at zogby.com ...
I tend to disagree. There was a galvanizing moral issue in the War Between the States that motivated northerners to fight hard against southern independence. There is no such issue today. Can you really imagine Washington and the American people generally fighting with the kind of sacrifices seen in the 1860's or 1940's to keep a conservative breakaway South Carolina (i.e, the Exodus project), or a hispanicized Arizona, in the Union?
I can't see it. I think if conservatives really did pull off an exodus to a state like S.C. and made it clear that they would fight tooth and nail, Washington would be forced to blink. Liberals would say 'let them go' not 'let's suffer a million casualties to keep them'.
This will rear its ugly head in about 30 years (fewer with Obama in charge) when an overwhelming Hispanic majority in California votes to secede.
South Carolina tried it in 1861. But America was populated with Americans then.
Don’t think the USA can’t dissolve overnight in this day and age? Ask the Soviet Union.
It might be well to remember the Democrat rallying cry of 1864. The slogan was, “The country as it was, the Constitution as it is.” What goes around, comes around.
Looking at history (Roman empire, etc.), I get the impression the way these things work without the central government crushing the insurrection is when the central government no longer has the strength to hold the states together, then they can split away from the central government.
Then there is the small matter of the individual states now on their own having to defend themselves against their neighbors once they are on their own.
I see it is the "cycles of civilization" theory that I read somewhere. It says that all societies go through the stages of (paraphrasing and simplifying here) Creation (struggle to make something), Complacency (relax when you have it made), Chaos (differences start to cause rifts in society), and Collapse (system falls apart due to lack of wealth vs demands or violence between groups within or from outside invaders).
The Collapse stage is kind of messy though...
Reminds me of this;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandela,_Massachusetts
Of course, the required support would have to be at least a super-majority, and other issues would need to be addressed... but to say that such a region or population has, as its ONLY recourse, armed insurrection seems anathema to a just and righteous nation. IMHO.
That’s down from 55 percent 150 years ago . .
I can't see it. I think if conservatives really did pull off an exodus to a state like S.C. and made it clear that they would fight tooth and nail, Washington would be forced to blink. Liberals would say 'let them go' not 'let's suffer a million casualties to keep them'.
I think the Hispanics (the poor ones) will simply be one big voting block for the Democrats, and vote themselves as many entitlements as they can from the government. Why would they want to leave when they can be safe and taken care of as part of their own piece of the U.S.?
As to a Conservative exodus, the Federal Law enforcement and military would act to crush the movement. Any plan to break away from the U.S., no matter how radical or socialist the government in Washington is, has to deal with the reality that the militarized police forces under central government command would act to stop it.
I think the Soviet Union fell apart because we were pushing them to compete where they simply ran out of money. I would guess it will take a few generations for this country on its own to become poor enough and fragmented enough to not be able to be held together by force of arms.
But I could be wrong.
Acutally, you all have the right to split into four states with 8 senators. That would shake a few things up.
They do. They just can’t do it unilaterally. Or so the Supreme Court found in 1869.
That was the contradiction in the Confederate States. They set themselves up as principled opponents of unwanted centralized power yet they refused the clear wishes of East Tennessee to remain loyal to the United States and wanted no part of the Confederacy.
I find it amazing how many posters on this thread have cited the Constitution. Perhaps they can show me where the Constitution:
Where the government can take your land to build shopping centers.
Where the government can try someone in multiple courts because they don’t like the ruling that one court comes out with.
Where the government can require you to fill out census papers including information that is none of their business(not just the 10 year census but anytime they feel like it) or threaten you with jail time.
Where the government can take your money or property and give it to anyone it feels is more deserving.
Where the government can tell you who you must or must not hire or fire in your own business.
Where the government can tell you who you must or must not rent your own property to and how much you can charge.
Where the government can tell you what you can and cannot say within 90 days of an election.
Where the government can take your children away from you if they do not agree your method of discipline or child rearing.
Where the government can require you to pay to have your children indoctrinated with ideas that are foreign to your own beliefs.
Where the government can increase sentences and penalties because you were ‘thinking’ improperly when you acted.
Where the government can enslave its people by taking any amount of their earnings that they see fit.
Where the government can tell you what you can or cannot build on your own private property because you may be causing pain to some toad.
Were the government ............. you get the idea.
It all depends on who’s in charge when the attempt is made.
If Texas tells the fed we intend to split up, and the fed objects/doesn’t cooperate then the whole deal is off and we revert back to our own nation.
I guess because Hispanics and Northern Urban Blacks have never really felt the sting of Sherman, or its aftereffects.
Unfortuntately that particular proviso was demolished during Re-Admission to the Union after the Civil War.
Directed by Joe Dante. With Beau Bridges, Joanna Cassidy, Phil Hartman. A simple immigration issue spins wildly out of control for those involved, ...
www.imdb.com/Title?0120086 - 49k
I'v seen this movie too, except in real life it's Mayor Villa of Los Angeles sleeping with the news reporterette.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.