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Obama's eligibility problem UPDATE
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/divided-loyalties-obamas-eligibility-problem-part-2/#more-918 ^

Posted on 07/26/2008 7:11:22 AM PDT by dascallie

"There is clear prima facie evidence that Senator Barack Hussein Obama has held at least two Citizenships, American and Indonesian. Under Article II of the Constitution that disqualifies him for POTUS, and it should. "

Divided Loyalties, Obama’s Eligibility Problem, PART 2 July 26, 2008

NOTE by TexasDarlin:

This is the second article in a two-part series by Judah Benjamin challenging the Constitutionality of Barack Obama’s bid for President.

This article was preceded by my Foreword, and by the author’s Part 1, which explores the legal history and definition of “natural born citizen” under Article II of the US Constitution. Those two posts should be read first, and in full.

Part 2 explores the factual basis for Barack Obama’s dual citizenship, and concludes that he has been a citizen of at least two countries, and therefore is ineligible to be President.

By Judah Benjamin, Guest Author

INTRODUCTION

This Election Cycle is unique in the History of the USA because three men who have put themselves forward as Candidates for the Office of POTUS have problems of Eligibility under Article II of the Constitution of the United States.

Strangely, the only one who has been challenged at all is the only one with a solid argument in his favor in terms of the Law as it stood in 1787, and that is Senator John McCain. The other two men are still there, one is still trying to become POTUS, Senator Barack Obama, and the other is still trying for the VPOTUS slot, Governor Bill Richardson.

Gov. Richardson was born on US Soil and is a US Citizen by Birth under the Immigration and Nationality Act 1952 and the XIVth Amendment to the Constitution of the USA. Unfortunately, under Article 30 of the Mexican Constitution and the Mexican Federal Law of Nationality, Governor Richardson is also a Natural Born Citizen of Mexico. There seems to be no mechanism whereby he could have ceased so to be, and it is my contention that under Article II of the Constitution and all Precedent Law no Dual National is Eligible for President. Governor Richardson probably is Eligible to be President of Mexico but not POTUS!

Senator John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, which was not, according to the State Department, US Territory. He was apparently born either on a US Naval Base, or in any event in the purlieus of one, which was not, according to the State Department, US Territory. According to Panamanian Law he may have been a Citizen of Panama by Birth.

Sen. McCain was a Citizen by Birth of the United States under the appropriate US Laws at the time of his Birth and according to a non-Binding Resolution of the US Senate acting under the implied powers of the XXVth Amendment to the Constitution of the USA. According to the Panamanian Legal Code, if he ever held Panamanian Citizenship, which he has never claimed by thought, word, act, or deed, he voided Panamanian Nationality when he joined the US Navy. Sen. McCain is clearly Eligible under the Law as it stood in 1787 and under Article II of the Constitution of the USA. This is and always has been, a non-Issue!

Natural Born Citizenship has to be determined under the Common Law as it stood in 1787, not by any subsequent Law, or Regulation. Neither the XIVth Amendment nor any other enactment changes Article II at all, though the Act of 1790 speaks to intention.

Finally we come to Senator Barack Obama and fall into a swamp of legality and pseudo legality.

Senator Barack Obama states, on his own website, that he is a Citizen of the United States of America under the XIVth Amendment. I, personally, don’t doubt that but the XIVth Amendment has nothing to do with Eligibility for the Office of POTUS!! That is Article II of the Constitution of the USA.

The XIVthAmendment has to do withCitizens by Birth and Naturalized Citizens. Governor Schwarzenegger is a Citizen under the XIVth Amendment, so are Rupert Murdoch, George Soros, Anthony Hopkins and Keanu Reeves!! Obama is a Lawyer, he taught Constitutional Law, he studied under Professor Laurence Tribe; he knows just how meaningless and pointless this statement is in context!! He co-sponsored the Resolution in favor of McCain, so he knows Current Law is not the Issue here but that what matters is the Law as it stood in 1787!

Was he, himself, born outside the USA? Maybe, I doubt it, but maybe and I shall deal with that issue.

Is he, or was he, a Dual, or Multiple, Citizen? I believe so, indeed I am firmly convinced of it and I am convinced that if he is, or was, he is INELIGIBLE for the Office of POTUS.

Remember the US State Department says:

“A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another.”

and:

“The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person’s allegiance.

“However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws.”

This, in plain terms means that a Dual National could not, under any circumstances, be Eligible. Additionally, if Naturalized Citizens are Ineligible because of the Legal principle of “The Appearance of Foreign Allegiance” which they are, and always have been, a former Dual National/Dual Citizen MUST be in exactly the same position vis a vis Article II.

Senator Obama has created this problem. It is purely and absolutely his own fault that he has not “come clean” about his childhood, youth and background. If a problem exists, he didn’t initially create it but he has covered it up in so many layers of obfuscation and outright untruth that he has made things much worse and much more complicated than they need to be.

There are three Basic Questions regarding his Eligibility:

a) Was he born a UK and Colonies Subject/National and did he subsequently become a Kenyan Citizen?

b) Was he an Indonesian Citizen?

c) Was he born outside the United States, for example in Canada?

If any, or worse all of these things were/are true he is Ineligible for the Office of POTUS under Article II of the Constitution of the United States.

Since he is a Constitutional Lawyer he knows that this is true and he is standing in spite of it. It is an odd twist of US Law that there is nothing to stop an Ineligible Candidate from running for the Office, only to stop them from serving as POTUS. Make of that what you will; I have a theory.

I shall deal with each problem in its place. There should be a paper trail in US State and Federal and Foreign Government Records to prove, or disprove, my views. In fact, there must be and if there is not then it follows that somebody has removed the trail. If they have there has been a criminal conspiracy.

PART TWO: Does Barack Obama currently hold, or has he ever held another Citizenship?

Let me begin this part of the article by saying that I am not an expert on .jpegs, have not fully understood the backward and forward arguments between those who are, or claim to be, experts on the subject of the supposed Certification of Live Birth for Senator Barack Hussein Obama, Jr, posted at “Daily Kos” and “Fight the Smears”. I neither know that it is a fake or believe that it is genuine and I do not care because neither thing would have any effect whatsoever on my views about the case. If it is a forgery then various people may well be liable to charges such as Misprision of Felony and Knowingly Publishing a Falsified Copy of a Legal Document, etc, etc, but that does not affect my view of the case either. I want to see a Notarized Copy of Senator Obama’s Birth Certificate as issued by the State of Hawaii in 1961, the original White on Black Document. Until I do I have no Legal Proof of where he was Born, or whether his parents were married. Let me say certain things at this point:

A) I am absolutely certain that such a Document exists, that it existed in 1966/67 and that it exists today.

B) I require to be satisfied as to where he was born and Birth Certificate should, and I stress should, tell me that. Hawaii issues Certificates for those born outside the State and indeed outside the country if the parents, or one of the parents, are natives of, or residents in, the State.

So regardless of where he was born this Document ought to exist. They also allow Late Registration.

Unfortunately, they also issue Certificates based upon the witness of people who are neither duly registered Medical Practitioners or present at the birth, so the Document may prove nothing. However, I am willing to accept it as evidence.

C) I require to be satisfied as to the marital status of his parents at the time of his birth and this must be included in the information on the certificate. Let me say at this point that since Barack Hussein Obama, Sr’s, first “marriage” in Kenya was a “village”, or “tribal”, marriage it was recognized legally by neither the British Colonial Authorities in Kenya nor the US Government and therefore there is no question of bigamy involved in any marriage, contrary to many claims currently being made on the Internet.

D) I require to be satisfied as to his original legal full name. If it was not as it is today when, and how, was it changed?

E) I am perfectly willing to accept that Senator Barack Hussein Obama, Jr, was born on US soil and of an American mother, that his parents were legally married and that his birth name was, indeed, Barack Hussein Obama. None of thesethings would, in any way, affect my basic argument, I shall deal with the consequences of any of these things being untrue later.

F)I am perfectly willing to accept that Senator Barack Hussein Obama, Jr, is currently exclusively a US Citizen. This would not affect my basic argument, and I shall deal with the consequences of any other situation being true later.

I also want to state here and now that I am not accusing Senator Obama of any species of crime whatsoever. I am quite sure that he hasn’t committed one, relative to the subject under discussion. I think he has been deceptive, unethical, and much less than honest but then again he is a politician and a lawyer so what do you expect?

Having said all of this I require, more importantly, that the Courts, the State Department and the INS determine whether or not the following Documents exist today, or existed formerly, in the Records of other countries and the USA (and if they no longer do, why they don’t):

a) A British Colonial Birth Certificate in the Kenyan, and or UK Records, in Kenya and London, with accompanying Documentation.

b) An Indonesian KTP(State Issued Identity Card), Indonesian Adoption Papers and an Indonesian Passport, with all accompanying Documentation. Incidentally, at least one of these Documents, the KTP, MUST have existed from 1966 to 1971.

c) A Canadian Birth Certificate, with all accompanying Documentation.

d) Documentation relevant to these papers in the appropriate US Consular Service Offices, the State Department and the Passport Office.

e) All Documentation in the US, Indonesia and, possibly Canada, relative to Stanley Ann Dunham and Maya Kassandra Soetoro-Ng, because their Records are relevant to, and intimately connected with the Senator.

f) A Public Appearance, on National TV, on Oath, before the Attorney General of the United States of America by Senator Barack Hussein Obama Jr, doing the following:

i)Swearing that he has, to the best of his knowledge and belief, never held any other Nationality or Citizenship than that of the USA.

ii) That he, at the same time, take The Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America, as taken by every Naturalized Citizen. If he is solely and has always been solely a US Citizen this should not give him any problems, whatsoever. If he has not been telling the truth and has held other Citizenships it would at least satisfy me that he has told the World that he is going to be Loyal in the Future.

I firmly believe that every Candidate for the Office of POTUS, or VPOTUS, should do this, not just Obama.

QUESTIONS OF NATIONALITY

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

IF:

He was born on the island of Oahu, in Honolulu County, State of Hawaii on August 4th 1961.

AND IF:

He was the son of Stanley Ann Dunham and Barack Hussein Obama, Sr, who had married, probably, in February 1961 (we do not know where they married, or the exact date and neither does the Senator, but their Divorce Papers, which apparently exist and which I would also like to see, would tell us that). Ann Dunham was 18 years old at the time of his birth and Barack Hussein Obama, Sr, was 24, or 25, years old.

I have no problem in stating categorically that Senator Barack Hussein Obama, Jr, is an American Citizen by Birth, under the XIVth Amendment, under the Immigration and Nationality Act 1952, and under any and all appropriate US Statutory Law.

And it proves exactly nothing in terms of Article II of the United States Constitution!

The Senator would neither have lied or told the complete truth.

THE DOMINION OF CANADA.

IF:

He was born in Vancouver, British Columbia, or in any other part of the Dominion of Canada, on August 4th 1961, or at any other date, he was born a Canadian Citizen under The Canadian Citizenship Act of 1946. Due to the age of his mother he would NOT have been a US Citizen under the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, until the passage of 8 U.S.C. 1401, Sec. 301 (g) at which point he became a Citizen by Law as of November 14, 1986. That is providing that his parents were married at the time, and that a Report of Birth Abroad and all the appropriate paperwork were submitted to the Consular Service of the USA.

If that is the case, until proven to the contrary in a Court of Law, he is a Naturalized Citizen of the USA under the XIVth Amendment and Ineligible under Article II of the Constitution.

Additionally, unless he has repudiated his Canadian Nationality Officially, he holds Dual Canadian-US Citizenship at the moment and is Ineligible under Article II thereby and someone has committed an Offense under the Law.

[Although it should be noted that the writer has seen a document from the Consular Service called "Checklist for Report of Birth Abroad" which shows that the Consular Service will initially ignore 8 U.S.C. 1409 and that they do not accept the 1986 Amendment. This Document is current and may be viewed by clicking this link : [US Consulate ]

IF:

His parents were unmarried at the time of his birth he would have become a Citizen of the USA at Birth under Title III of the Immigration and Nationality Act Section 309. [8 U.S.C. 1409].

However as Miller v Albright, 523 US 420 (199 demonstrates there is, and was, a split in the Supreme Court as to whether this Law is in fact Constitutional. A new case might change the precedent. For now it stands. It does not change certain elements of the Law; the birth would have to have been duly registered with the US Consular Service, etc to give him automatic status, he would have to have been issued with a passport, even as a baby and so on. A Hawaiian Birth Certificate would not suffice. He would still be a Canadian Citizen by Birth, thus the Dual Citizenship problem still exists.

There is indirect reason to believe that this may be true. “2d Session S. RES. 511: Recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen.: In the Senate of the United States.” was Sponsored by Senator McCaskill and co-sponsored by Senators Leahy, Obama, Coburn, Clinton and Webb. Why? Why were Democratic Senators trying to pass a Resolution making Senator McCain undoubtedly legally Eligible when this issue had already been cleared up in 2000 and again in 2004?

And why did Senators McCaskill and Obama reportedly insert the following Clause?

“Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President;”

This Clause has no particular relevance to McCain and the following Clause, which it is reported McCaskill and Obama attempted to REMOVE shows that:

and Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936.”

It seems clear that McCaskill and Obama were attempting to create a blanket Resolution covering ALL Foreign Born candidates. Why do that if not to benefit a Foreign Born Democratic Candidate who did not have a US Military background?

McCain did not need this resolution, Richardson did not need this Resolution; so far as I can see no-body needed this Resolution unless somebody in the race was born outside the USA and was “Covering his/her Ass” and the only individual in the race that that could apply to was Senator Obama!

This in turn would show that the Senator is a liar who has been peddling untruths about his birth for at least 16 years!

Having said all of this, if he was born in Canada somebody seems to have faked a US Birth for him and gave him the name he has now. Or else there is a record of a change of name somewhere, probably pre-dating September 1971. Also there must be a paper trail in the Consular Service Records.

THE REPUBLIC OF KENYA

Let us assume, at this point, that Senator Obama’s oft asserted statements about the circumstances of his birth are absolutely and unequivocally true. I have no reason to believe otherwise, Andy Martin’s statements notwithstanding. Frankly, nothing would be changed if his parents were not married, so long as Barack Hussein Obama, Sr, recognized the boy as his son.

Barack Hussein Obama, Sr, was not a US citizen. Under the British Nationality Act of 1948, the complete text of which you can find by clicking the link, he was a citizen of the United Kingdom and its Colonies (hereafter referred to as a British Colonial Citizen). Under this Act, IF he was married to Ann Dunham and IF he acknowledged Barack Hussein Obama, Jr, as his son, or IF they were not married and he still acknowledged the boy, and IF he filed the correct paperwork with the British Colonial Authorities in Kenya, Barack Hussein Obama, Jr, was born as a British Colonial Citizen and possesses a Birth Certificate which should still exist on file in both Kenya and, presumably, London, England.

According to a number of sources, such a Certificate does exist. I have no idea if Barack Hussein Obama still possesses this Nationality but I presume ab initio that he does NOT. I am prepared to be told that he does but I shall be very surprised if I am.

[I MAY deal subsequently with the issue of Ann Dunham's Citizenship/Nationality in another article, bear with me, please.]

Under Chapter VI. Section 87, of The Constitution of Kenya, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr, became a Kenyan citizen on December 12th 1963. This is a simple Legal fact which cannot be denied. (The complete text of the Kenyan Constitution you can find by clicking the link.)

If Barack Hussein Obama, Sr, filed the correct papers with the British Colonial Authorities and with the Kenyan Government Barack Hussein Obama, Jr, also became a Kenyan citizen on December 12th 1963 under Section 97. of the Kenyan Constitution. Under the same section it would appear that he probably remained a Kenyan Citizen in the view of the Kenyan Government until he was 21 years old, ie August 1982. At that time if he did not take the Kenyan Oath of Allegiance, Renounce all other Citizenships, and complete various paperwork HIS KENYAN NATIONALITY/CITIZENSHIP LAPSED.

So far as I understand it, he could resume his Kenyan Nationality at a later date but only by doing what he would have to have done by age 21, or by a Kenyan Government Order. I am certain he did not do the first, I am reasonably sure that the second has not happened. If either was true he would have lost his US Citizenship under INA §349 “2. taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof after having attained the age of eighteen years.” Granted that of late years this Law has not been applied it is still the Law of the United States of America. He was not required under Kenyan Law to make any Formal Renunciation and any statements to the contrary previously made by myself, or other persons, such as Andy Martin, are wrong according to the Kenyan Constitution.

[ As a side note Kenya, like Canada, Australia and the UK is a member State of the Commonwealth of Nations, otherwise known as the British Commonwealth, an organization that contains over 50 countries that used to be part of the British Empire. I mention this because I recently read a blog posting by somebody who thought Kenya and Canada had left the Commonwealth, THEY HAVEN'T! Pakistan and India are also Commonwealth Countries.]

THE REPUBLIC OF INDONESIA

It is an indisputable fact that Barack Obama spent his formative years in Indonesia. It is an indisputable fact that his mother married Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo (hereafter called Lolo Soetoro). It is an indisputable fact that Senator Obama attended two Indonesian schools and that the records of one of those schools still existed in the year 2007.

Everything else about that period is, as they say, “Up for Grabs”, because the various accounts of that period given by the Senator and his half-sister and by a variety of journalists conflict, massively, and contain egregious errors.

I shall give a variety of links and references on Indonesian Law and conditions. It is possible that what I have managed to puzzle out is wrong. Feel free to prove me wrong but please DO NOT simply quote Wikipedia, or some site that specializes in “the debunking of urban legends”, or even the newspaper articles I quote. Go and read every text you can find on Indonesian Law, or ask an Indonesian in their sixties, or seventies, what they think. I have well over a hundred pages of notes and in excess of seventy journalistic articles on the subject, I have bothered to acquire texts on Indonesian Law and I didn’t do all of that because Wikipedia or Snopes.com got it right, I did it because they didn’t get it right.

The first problem we encounter in the account of Ann Dunham’s marriage to Lolo Soetoro is that nobody has agreed to when it took place, or where. Hmm, well we’ve never been given that information about Ann and Barack, Sr, either, have we? So why does it matter?

Answer, because under Indonesian Law, to this very day, you cannot adopt a child over the age of five, even abroad, if you are an Indonesian Citizen. [See: "Sriro's Desk Reference of Indonesian Law", Andrew I Sriro, Equinox Publishing (2006), "Islam, Law, and Equality in Indonesia", John Richard Bowen, Cambridge University Press (2003) and "Nationality and International Law in Asian Perspective", Ko Swan Sik, T M C Asser Instituut, The Hague (1990)]

Now there are sources who quote the date of Ann and Lolo’s marriage as anything between 1965 and 1968. When did it take place? Obviously this is vital.

Well, we know categorically that they must have been married prior to January 1st 1968, because Obama was enrolled in Elementary School in Jakarta on that date, so scratch sources quoting any date later than December 31st 1967!

We know that he had returned to Hawaii prior to September of 1971 because he was enrolled in his Prep School in Hawaii then, at the beginning of Fifth Grade.

How long did he live in Indonesia? In “Dreams from my Father”, Obama says specifically that he lived with his step-father in Indonesia for five years and that by the time he and his mother arrived in Indonesia she and Lolo had been married for over a year because Lolo had returned to Indonesia “about a year” before they arrived.

One does not need to be a mathematical genius to work out that if he lived in Indonesia for five years the very latest date upon which they could have arrived in Jakarta was August 1966 and that therefore the couple could not have married any later than August 1965, unless they did not marry until after Ann and Barack arrived in Indonesia, which seems to be inconsistent both with the Senator’s account and with Indonesian Law.

Therefore when Ann and Lolo married the Senator was probably shy of 4 years old and arrived in Indonesia about the time of his fifth Birthday.

Indonesian Law says this:

“Foreign persons under age of five who are adopted by Indonesian Citizens obtain Indonesian Citizenship following legalization of adoption process by District Court of general jurisdiction with jurisdiction over adoptive parents [Id at Art. 2 (1)]“

And:

“It is stipulated that an adopted child has the same status as a natural child, and that his or her relationship to the birth parents is severed by adoption”

If Lolo Soetoro adopted young Barack under Indonesian Law prior to August 1966, certain things would be true according to Indonesian Law 62/1958.

First, since Indonesian Law did not accept that Dual Nationality/Citizenship was possible until 2007 the boy would, in accord with Indonesian Law, be considered no longer to be a US Citizen. In fact he would be considered never to have been one at all. (Think about the US State Department Guidelines here; if the boy obeys Indonesian Law he cannot be a US Citizen. On the other hand under US Law he is a US Citizen!)

Secondly, the only Legal Relationship he would have to his mother, at that time a US Citizen, would be that she was married to his Legal Father, under Indonesian Law. He would be an Indonesian Citizen with a KTP and an Indonesian Passport, as soon as the fees, and bribes, had been paid and the paperwork completed.

Lolo Soetoro would be his guardian, next of Kin and father. His Religion would be Legally Listed and Registered as Islam because children have the Religion of their Father under Indonesian Law and can have no other. His Surname would become Soetoro, Soetoro Ma. or in full Soetoro Mangunharjo. His given name would either disappear or become whatever Lolo chose.

Notice that this is one of those problems referred to specifically by the US State Department:

“The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad.

“The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person’s allegiance.

“However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there. Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship. Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.”

The boy would be allowed to Renounce Indonesian Citizenship at the age of 18 but until then, whenever he was in Indonesia, Indonesian Law would prevail.

Another factor is cost. The minimum amount that would have to be laid out every year in fees and bribes for the boy to stay in Indonesia if he was not a Citizen would have been in the vicinity of $1000. This may not sound like that much to some people today but for a minor official in Indonesia in 1966 it would be utterly impossible to sustain. It is virtually inconceivable that the boy was not adopted by his stepfather.

A clash of Legal Systems, two names, two Legal Identities, one American, one Indonesian. Under US Law he would be a US Citizen called Barack Hussein Obama, or whatever his Original Birth Certificate said, because you cannot Repudiate US Citizenship until you are 18.

Under Indonesian Law he would be an Indonesian Citizen called, say, Barry Soetoro and he could not Renounce that Citizenship until he was 18. Not only two names and two identities but two passports, one in each name. Did he ever formally renounce Indonesian Citizenship? I assume that he did at some point but where and when I don’t know.

A secondary effect would be that when he went to School he would have to attend an Indonesian State Recognized School, which Foreign children were not permitted to attend.

I have no direct proof that any of this occurred BUT I have indirect proof aplenty, such as would surely meet the Requirements of a Civil Court Case Standard of Proof.

Here is a list of articles that talk about Barack Obama’s Indonesian Period.

Jodi Kantor of “The New York Times” , ‘A Candidate, His Minister and the Search for Faith’ April 30th 2007

Nedra Pickler of “The Associated Press”, ‘Obama Debunks Claim About Islamic School’, Wednesday, January 24, 2007

Kim Barker of “The Chicago Tribune”, ‘History of schooling distorted’, March 25, 2007 and ‘The not-so-simple story of Barack Obama’s youth.’ with Kirsten Scharnberg, March 25, 2007

An American Expat in Southeast Asia (blog), ‘Tracking Down Obama in Indonesia’ Part 1 ,20 January 2007, Part 2, 23 January 2007, Part 3, 24 January 2007

Paul Watson of “The Los Angeles Times”, ‘Islam an unknown factor in Obama bid’, March 16, 2007

Haroon Siddiqui of “The Toronto Star”, ‘Obama’s Muslim heritage’, Jun 14, 2007

Rony Amir of “The Banjarmasin Post”, ‘Bocah Negro Gemuk Itu Rajin Ke Mushala’, July 9, 2006 [This Article needs to be translated. I have no idea if the translation I have read is correct.]

Daniel Pipes in “Jewish World Review”, ‘Barack Obama’sMuslim Childhood’, April 29, 2008 [I do not advise anyone to automatically accept anything said by Pipes whose Anti-Islamic bent is very pronounced. However, in this case he is not entirely wrong.]

There are more, many more, and there are statements in both “Dreams of My Father”, Maya Soetoro-Ng’s various interviews and there is Aswini Anburajan’s article for MSNBC, entitled “Obama asked about connection to Islam”, December 22, 2007 and Ami Eden’s article for JTA, “Obama reaches out to Jewish leaders”, Feb 25, 2008.

I do not care about the Islamic argument, per se, though I could use it to write an article, conclusively proving that the Senator and his Campaign are lying about his Islamic Faith as a boy. This country does not allow Religious Tests and practices Separation of Church and State. Indonesia doesn’t and has a Department of Religious Affairs, which is very active.

What does concern me is his Record at STLP Asisi, his first Elementary School. Most sources trumpet that this Record is “Full of Errors”, I don’t think that there is a single error in it because if he was the adopted son of Lolo Soetoro everything in it would be absolutely correct according to Indonesian Law, including Law No 62/1958.

No journalist has denied that the STLP Asisi Record contains the following information: He was enrolled on January 1st 1968, given Serial No 203 and placed in Class 1 B. His Religion is given as Islam, his Nationality Indonesian, his Father’s Name as L Soetoro Ma., his Father’s Occupation as Official, Director General’s Office TNI [Topography Division Indonesian Army] and his Name as Barry Soetoro.

1) Only Indonesian children were enrolled in Indonesian Schools in 1968, STLP Asisi was a Roman Catholic School within the Indonesian State System, it was not an International School. Therefore if he attended this school and subsequently SDN Menteng 1, State Elementary School, and every source agrees that this is the case, he would have to have been enrolled as an Indonesian Citizen.

2) All sources agree that the available Records show that he was enrolled as a Muslim.

3) All sources agree that Lolo Soetoro Ma. is described as his father and that no mention is made of his mother.

Strong circumstantial evidence that he was adopted but there is stronger and the journalists who penned all of these articles should be ashamed of the fact that they didn’t see it.

Indonesia in the sixties was a Police State, fact of life, everybody, even babes in arms had Identity Documents, possibly including Passports, but certainly including a KTP. An adopted child called a WNI, warga negara Indonesia, has the same KTP as any other Indonesian child. In a system like that when a child enrolls in School their details are taken from their KTP. KTPs are issued by the Government and cross checked by the National Police, it takes weeks to get one, costs a lot of money, and they don’t ever get to contain as many errors as the journalists want to believe that Barack Obama’s did and in 99% of cases they contain none at all. Everything on his Record at STLP Asisi matches what would be true if he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro before he arrived in Indonesia.

The evidence that Barry Soetoro was adopted (WNI) by Soetoro seems overwhelming. Whenever Government spectors came to his schools, which they would every three months or so, the KTPs of every individual present, teachers and pupils alike, would be checked against the school and Government Records.

This could not have gone on for long without a discrepancy becoming apparent. If he had an Indonesian KTP, he also had an Indonesian Passport, but he probably also had a US Passport. This breached the Indonesian Legal Code but not the US Legal Code, under which he would still be an American; under the Indonesian Law he could not be.

The paperwork is there somewhere in Jakarta, unless it has been diplomatically “eaten by bugs” like the Records at his school, SDN Menteng 1. Somehow, in 1971, Stanley Ann got the necessary Legal Letter of Permission from her husband to take the boy to Hawaii. Barry Soetoro left Indonesia on an Indonesian Passport in that name, as the Law required. He arrived in Hawaii on his US Passport, presumably in the name of Barack Hussein Obama, again as the Law required. US Law was not broken, though US State Department Guidelines were, but Indonesian Law was.

This particular illegal conduct is common among American, Australian and other ex-Pats in Indonesia, Passport Officers and various Officials are bribed to ignore it.

We are looking at a clash of Legal systems, but however you look at it we are talking about Dual Citizenship once again. Mind you, in this case a Dual Citizenship that shouldn’t legally exist, for Indonesia did not recognize that Dual Citizenship was possible and the USA does not allow Dual Citizenship with countries that don’t.

And as I keep saying, if Dual Nationality/Citizenship doesn’t make you ineligible, regardless of whether you have given that Citizenship up, then being Naturalized can’t either under the XIVth Amendment that Obama and Company seem to be so fond of quoting.

[As I said I could also write an article on Stanley Ann Dunham and the oddities in her Record, there are many, many oddities and probable illegalities, including exactly how she got a US Passport for her son in 1971. I could also write an Article showing beyond question that the Senator was a Muslim as a child. Maybe I will write both but for now the Dual Nationality Issue is the Concern.]

CONCLUSION

There is clear prima facie evidence that Senator Barack Hussein Obama has held at least two Citizenships, American and Indonesian.

Under Article II of the Constitution that disqualifies him for POTUS, and it should. He may also have held other Nationalities, how many it is not clear. No crime has been committed in the USA but two Legal Systems have been bent as far as they could be without breaking.

He isn’t Eligible unless and until the Supreme Court Rules on Dual Nationality or the Congress passes Statute Law and the Constitution is Amended. The XIVth Amendment doesn’t change anything; United States v. Rhodes is still Precedent.

Writing this article has brought me face to face with huge quantities of disinformation. Had the Obama Campaign and their allies not laid such a thick smokescreen, obscuring facts going back to 1942, for much of his mother’s record has also been extensively doctored, the task would have been relatively easy.

It would be fair to say that I have never seen anything like it and I suspect very few other people have either. This matter should never have got this far. I cannot even at this point say that Senator Obama has committed a crime or broken the Law but I have never seen such a twisted version of Legality and it cannot be an accident.

The Senator knows the truth but he won’t admit to it and he may well be the only surviving witness to what happened back in 1966 and 1971.

NOTE

In most Legal Jurisdictions in the World the terms Citizen, National and Subject are interchangeable, so are Citizenship and Nationality. In US and Mexican Law they have arbitrarily been assigned subtly different meanings. In writing this article I have ignored the US and Mexican differences, which are, in any event Irrelevant to the Issue. There was no difference in US Law as recently as 1952.

SEE extensive list of links and bibliography HERE. Author’s Endnote: And, should you wonder, I have read the relevant sections of all of thesetexts and reached the conclusions I have as a result. Until under three months ago I had never consciously considered Dual Citizenship/Nationality in Relation to Article II of the Constitution, though I had given pretty serious thought to the fact that Dual Citizenship is incompatible with the Oath of Allegiance taken by those who become Naturalized Citizens and that therefore it should be illegal for a US Citizen to have Dual Citizenship/Nationality at all. Now after wading through all of these texts I figure I could probably take on Professor Gabriel Chin in an e-Debate and beat him. Wouldn’t be too hard, he’s talking pure undiluted BS! And I can think of one former Senior Lecturer in Constitutional Law that I’ve got to believe I could beat, too!


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; certifigate; colbaquiddic; electionpresident; naturalborncitizen; obama; obamadeceit; obamatruthfile; potuseligibility

1 posted on 07/26/2008 7:11:23 AM PDT by dascallie
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To: dascallie

Well, if there was an issue with his citizenship, you can be sure the suddenly quiet Clintons would be all over this.

Makes one wonder if that’s what they are looking into right now...hmmmm....


2 posted on 07/26/2008 7:20:06 AM PDT by woweeitsme
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To: woweeitsme

I think you’re right. This makes no sense to me. It seems that even if there were the smallest of possibilities that Barack Hussein Obama Osama Yo-Mama was not eligible for the presidency, it would have been brought out long ago, by the Clintoons and all the other dim candidates.


3 posted on 07/26/2008 7:24:59 AM PDT by basil (Support the Second Amendment-buy another gun today!)
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To: dascallie

The FR sidebar is reserved for FR business.

Not this.


4 posted on 07/26/2008 7:25:56 AM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: dascallie

Is anybody enforcing our laws? Or better yet, does anyone in our government care. Guess the New World Order will over ride our Constitution.


5 posted on 07/26/2008 7:31:17 AM PDT by RC2
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To: dascallie


6 posted on 07/26/2008 7:31:38 AM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist -CTHULHU/NYARLATHOTEP'08 = Nothing LESS!!!)
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To: dascallie
Senator John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, which was not, according to the State Department, US Territory. He was apparently born either on a US Naval Base, or in any event in the purlieus of one, which was not, according to the State Department, US Territory. According to Panamanian Law he may have been a Citizen of Panama by Birth. Sen. McCain was a Citizen by Birth of the United States under the appropriate US Laws at the time of his Birth and according to a non-Binding Resolution of the US Senate acting under the implied powers of the XXVth Amendment to the Constitution of the USA. According to the Panamanian Legal Code, if he ever held Panamanian Citizenship, which he has never claimed by thought, word, act, or deed, he voided Panamanian Nationality when he joined the US Navy. Sen. McCain is clearly Eligible under the Law as it stood in 1787 and under Article II of the Constitution of the USA. This is and always has been, a non-Issue!

One more time just because the question of McCains citizenship is so stupid as to be laughable. Anyone who does not know that if you are born of US parents, no matter where you are born, you are a natural born US citizen. Why anyone with a brain would print the BS this guy has is beyond me.

All the crap he says about Panama is useless and means nothing one way or another. McCain had TWO parents who were US citizens, therefore he is a natural born citizen. What do people think that all the childrern of service personel who are born overseas are NOT citizens, how frickin' stupid and ignorant of US law can one get?

7 posted on 07/26/2008 7:32:22 AM PDT by calex59
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To: dascallie
Also posted over here
8 posted on 07/26/2008 7:37:07 AM PDT by Amityschild
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To: RC2

I suppose the only place his eligibilty can be challenged is in Federal Court.

Good luck finding a judge with the courage to pull the plug on Hussein’s candidacy.


9 posted on 07/26/2008 7:43:07 AM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: basil

The Clinton shave to find a way to present this without alienating Obama’s followers or they would surely lose the election. It is not as simple as you think. The Clinton’s are lawyers and politicians.


10 posted on 07/26/2008 8:08:28 AM PDT by gunnedah
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To: woweeitsme

Does this feed into BO’s relation to Calypso Louis Farakhan?

What were Stanley Ann’s political affiliations?


11 posted on 07/26/2008 8:11:14 AM PDT by Anselma
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To: Anselma
Even if he was a dual citizen, it wouldn't matter. And no court is going to entertain a challenge to his candidacy unless there was proof U.S citizenship was had or obtained through fraudulent or illegal means. And no one has adduced anything of the kind - or filed a challenge on those grounds against Obama in federal court.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

12 posted on 07/26/2008 8:43:50 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: woweeitsme
RULES ARE MADE FOR THE PROLETARIAT - NOT FOR DEMOCRAT PARTY FUNCTIONARIES

Obama has de facto eligibility because he is black and he is a Democrat politician.
Not Open For Discussion.
Period. Finished. The end.

Even if concerns about his eligibility are valid, there's not one elected official, federal authority, or prominent republican with the backbone to challenge his eligibility.

And if there was such a person, the odds of a judge finding against Obama are infinitesimal.

A court challenge would take 5 years to make it's way to the Supreme Court by which time President Obama will have stuffed the court with ultra-left wing socialists, put us under martial law, or we would be under Sharia law.

13 posted on 07/26/2008 8:48:46 AM PDT by Iron Munro (Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself.)
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To: BenLurkin

I have never seen a photo of Barack Obama Jr. with his belly button showing. Perhaps he doesn’t have one?

If so, he is not of this Earth and should not be allowed to be on the ballot.


14 posted on 07/26/2008 8:59:35 AM PDT by WilliamReading
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To: dascallie

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2051642/posts
Divided Loyalties, Obama’s Eligibility Problem, PART 2


15 posted on 07/26/2008 9:00:55 AM PDT by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: dascallie

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2051450/posts?page=28
Divided Loyalties, Obama’s Eligibility Problem, PART 1


16 posted on 07/26/2008 9:02:22 AM PDT by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: dascallie

bttt


17 posted on 07/26/2008 9:04:05 AM PDT by RebelTex (MOLON LABE!)
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To: BenLurkin

That’s the bottom-line. It simply won’t happen no matter what the Constitution says; we don’t live in a land where law rules, it is all about what some black-clad figure thinks is “best”.


18 posted on 07/26/2008 9:17:13 AM PDT by Arkansas Toothpick
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To: WilliamReading

Please — NO pictures of Hussein’s belly button!


19 posted on 07/26/2008 10:27:58 AM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: Arkansas Toothpick

‘fraid so...


20 posted on 07/26/2008 10:31:16 AM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: dascallie

Well, if a dual citizenship is a problem, wouldn’t him being Kenyan (by father’s citizenship) as well throw a wrench into things?


21 posted on 07/26/2008 10:32:53 AM PDT by autumnraine
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To: calex59

If John McCain (or Obama) were born on the MOON and his parents were there UNDER ORDERS FROM THE US GOVERNMENT,
be it Civilian or Military he would be a resident of the US.
I even think it would go to the same effect if his mother was a Martian and he were born on the moon and his father was under US GOVERNMENT ORDERS—as long as they were married.

I am quite sure that as long as his parents weren’t married the citizenship and location of his MOTHER at the time of birth count. I don’t see him eligible if his father was American and his UNMARRIED mother were in the Congo.

Still a BASTARD no matter which way you cut it.

I really can’t see some child I may have drunkly fathered in Japan in the 60’s showing up at my door and being eligible to run for the office of President....


22 posted on 07/26/2008 10:47:07 AM PDT by xrmusn
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To: dascallie
An absurd pile of poppycock.

There is nothing in Article II disqualifying a person from the Presidency who by action of foreign law has foreign citizenship. The only citizenship requirement is that he be a natural born citizen of the United States. Anyone who maintains otherwise is an "emanations from the penumbra" guy, just like those who find a right to abortion in the Constitution, and should be held in similar low regard.

The logic of the above article would give foreign states a method to meddle in the U.S. Presidential election. For example, if the Soviet Union had not wished Ronald Reagan to be President of the United States, all they would have to do is pass a Soviet law stating that Ronald Reagan was a Soviet citizen, and that Soviet law does not allow Ronald Reagan to renounce said Soviet citizenship. Abracadabra, Ronald Reagan could not be President of the United States. An obviously absurd state of affairs.

I would agree that dual citizenship might be something that the American people could take into account in the selection of a President. If the American people do not want a person with dual citizenship to be President, they will have to accomplish that at the ballot box.

23 posted on 07/26/2008 10:52:36 AM PDT by Cheburashka (Democratic Underground: Ever wonder where all those who took the brown acid at Woodstock wound up?)
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To: calex59
All the crap he says about Panama is useless and means nothing one way or another. McCain had TWO parents who were US citizens, therefore he is a natural born citizen. What do people think that all the childrern of service personel who are born overseas are NOT citizens, how frickin' stupid and ignorant of US law can one get?

Well, though it seems like a pretty straight forward situation, it's not. As the father of two children, both born of US citizens while I was on duty at Marine Barracks Bermuda, I can tell you unequivocally that they were issued a Bermudian birth certificate, which was then taken to the US consulate for issuance of a State Department Birth certificate that certified that they were, indeed, US citizens. It is NOT an automatic process. As with all things having anything to do with government - let alone two governments - there is paperwork that constructs a trail that should be easy enough to follow. This, I think is the authors position. It should be easy enough - even without specify dates - to construct a paper trail that would establish - without question - the citizenship status, and therefore, the eligibility of BHS to serve as POTUS. As the author reasonably stated, this paper trail seems to have be obfuscated to a point where it is NOT an easy trail to follow.

24 posted on 07/26/2008 11:28:16 AM PDT by GunnyB (Once a Marine, Always a Marine)
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To: dascallie

This issue appears to be gaining steam.

I suspect this may be the instrument Hillary uses (not directly, of course :) to take the nomination away from nObama.


25 posted on 07/26/2008 11:34:54 AM PDT by upchuck (As we doggedly march towards dystopia, my poor country is losing it's mind. God help us!)
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To: basil

Timing is everything in life. You can bet the Clintons are working on this. Even if they find no proof, they will manufacture it. Then they will send Lanny Davis and hordes of other sleazy Clintoonist out to start the fires. Obamayamma had better get busy gathering documentation of proving he meets the basic qualification for POTUS. The burden of proof is on him.


26 posted on 07/26/2008 3:01:32 PM PDT by hdstmf
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To: Cheburashka

It is legal for a child of less than 18 years of age to have dual citizenship in Indonesia. At age 18 that child must choose of which nation he/she wants to be a citizen. Barack moved to Hawaii when he was 9-10 years old.

In 1981 Barack Obama said he went to Pakistan with a college roommate who had overstayed his student visa. At that time U.S. citizens were prohibited from traveling to or from Pakistan. The only way Obama could have gotten into and out of Pakistan was by using his Indonesian passport (which would clearly state his religion as Muslim).

He was have been around 19-20 years old. That is a sure declaration of citizenship when you use a passport as an adult. He declared his allegience to Indonesia.

He isn’t eligible, under Articl II of the U.S. Constitution, to be our President. As a lawyer specializing in Constitutional law he knows it too.


27 posted on 07/26/2008 9:09:11 PM PDT by SatinDoll (Desperately desiring a conservative government.)
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To: SatinDoll
In 1981 Barack Obama said he went to Pakistan with a college roommate who had overstayed his student visa. At that time U.S. citizens were prohibited from traveling to or from Pakistan.

I never heard of such a prohibition. What would the reason have been for it? Also the "from Pakistan" part doesn't even make sense regardless of whether US or Pakistan law applied.

28 posted on 07/26/2008 9:19:19 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: SatinDoll
At that time U.S. citizens were prohibited from traveling to or from Pakistan.

In 1981 a Pakistani Airways flight from Karachi was hijacked and this was in the international news for some time. There were at least 4 Americans on board.

Also in 1981 the US agreed to give Pakistan a $3.2 billion aid package. It seems unlikely that this event would be accompanied by a prohibition of American travel to Pakistan by either country.

29 posted on 07/26/2008 10:00:55 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: SatinDoll
In 1981 Barack Obama said he went to Pakistan with a college roommate who had overstayed his student visa. At that time U.S. citizens were prohibited from traveling to or from Pakistan. The only way Obama could have gotten into and out of Pakistan was by using his Indonesian passport (which would clearly state his religion as Muslim).

He was have been around 19-20 years old. That is a sure declaration of citizenship when you use a passport as an adult. He declared his allegience to Indonesia.

He isn’t eligible, under Articl II of the U.S. Constitution, to be our President. As a lawyer specializing in Constitutional law he knows it too.


You have theorized that he used an Indonesian passport. You have not proven it to be fact.

There is only one way to renounce your American citizenship. By going to an American embassy or consulate and filling out an oath of renunciation.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

Violation of a travel ban may or may not be a felony, I don't know. But it obviously was not prosecuted and the statute of limitations has long since run on it. You may be able to use the violation of the law to embarrass him and possibly cause people not to vote for him, but he is a natural born American citizen and eligible for the Presidency. Since he is a Democrat a violation of the law may be a resume enhancement.

As for what Barry Obama knows, I would not rely on his knowledge of constitutional law in any way, shape, manner, or form.

Do not mistake my statement of the law for an endorsement of his candidacy and election.

30 posted on 07/26/2008 10:07:00 PM PDT by Cheburashka (Democratic Underground: Ever wonder where all those who took the brown acid at Woodstock wound up?)
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To: Cheburashka

He couldn’t have entered Pakistan on a U.S. passport. Any idea as to how he traveled around in southwest Asia without one?


31 posted on 07/27/2008 12:57:50 AM PDT by SatinDoll (Desperately desiring a conservative government.)
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To: woweeitsme
Yes, the Cinotns' silence has me wondering just what it is they're up to.

That convention should be very interesting, if nothing else.

32 posted on 07/27/2008 1:03:04 AM PDT by Allegra (Ain't it grand? I'm back in the sand...)
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To: woweeitsme
Cinotns' = Clintons'

Wow, I typed that badly.

And I've had my coffee this morning. ;-)

33 posted on 07/27/2008 1:05:15 AM PDT by Allegra (Ain't it grand? I'm back in the sand...)
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To: upchuck
I suspect this may be the instrument Hillary uses (not directly, of course :) to take the nomination away from nObama.

What a riot that would be!

34 posted on 07/27/2008 1:12:14 AM PDT by Fresh Wind (Five Year Plans and New Deals, wrapped in golden chains...)
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To: Cheburashka; wideminded

I really hate reminding people of history they should know. During 1982 - 1986 I was working a desk in Middle East, Mediterranean, and North African intelligence for one of the military branches. I won’t be more specific than that.

The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in 1978. In 1981 Afghanistan was in chaos and Pakistan was under martial law, being used by various agencies as a leaping off point for incursions into Afghanistan. If you were an American tourist you couldn’t get a visa to enter Pakistan as it was on the U.S. State Department’s no-travel lists a very dangerous place.

Barack Obama traveled to Pakistan via Indonesia. We already know that he had been registered in Indonesian public schools as Lolo Soetoro’s son, as a Muslim, and as an Indonesian. He had to have had an identity card, called a KTP, to have been enrolled. Indonesia at that time was a police state and non-Indonesian children could not be enrolled.

He traveled between Indonesia and Hawaii in 1971 using an Indonesian passport to depart Indonesia and entered Hawaii using a U.S. passport. That is what has been reported by people investigating that period in his childhood.

In 1981 he traveled to Pakistan, with his Pakistani roommate, via Indonesia.

It would have been very easy to update his KTP and Indonesian passport to enter Pakistan, and a great deal of trouble to try to travel on his U.S. passport, especially as he wouldn’t have been granted a visa to enter Pakistan.

At age twenty, was he even thinking that he might one day run for President of the United States?

All the above can be found on Texasdarlin’s blog.


35 posted on 07/27/2008 1:44:16 AM PDT by SatinDoll (Desperately desiring a conservative government.)
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To: SatinDoll
He couldn’t have entered Pakistan on a U.S. passport. Any idea as to how he traveled around in southwest Asia without one?

Don't care. He's still an American citizen and eligible to be President. As I said in my previous post, he could only renounce his citizenship by going to a American embassy or consulate and signing an oath of renunciation. Travel on an Indonesian passport doesn't do anything, although you might be able to use the fact, if you could prove it, to embarrass him and cost him some votes.

I don't know that Pakistani customs agents would care about an American prohibition of travel to Pakistan and doubt they would enforce American laws.

How’d he get out of the U.S.? By lying about his destination. People do it all the time traveling to Cuba. Which comes back to whether or not the violation of an America prohibition of travel to Pakistan (which by the way, I'm assuming is true based on your word - I have no personal knowledge that there was one) is a felony. Even if it was, the statute of limitations has run long ago on it. The fact could be used to embarrass Barry and might cost him some votes, but he is still an American citizen and eligible to run for President.

As before, my statement of the facts of the law does not in any way constitute an approval of his candidacy and possible future election.

36 posted on 07/27/2008 2:22:43 AM PDT by Cheburashka (Democratic Underground: Ever wonder where all those who took the brown acid at Woodstock wound up?)
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To: Cheburashka

It matters a hell of a lot if he had dual citizenship and has lied about it. Dual citizenship, like naturalization, makes him ineligible to be President and Commander-in-Chief due to a question of allegience.

That would be under Article II of the U.S. Consititution.


37 posted on 07/27/2008 2:55:42 AM PDT by SatinDoll (Desperately desiring a conservative government.)
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To: dascallie

Gives a whole new meaning to his “citizen of the world” talk, don’t it?


38 posted on 07/27/2008 3:18:47 AM PDT by EBH ( ... the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness. --Alculin c.735-804)
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To: SatinDoll
It matters a hell of a lot if he had dual citizenship and has lied about it. Dual citizenship, like naturalization, makes him ineligible to be President and Commander-in-Chief due to a question of allegience.

That would be under Article II of the U.S. Consititution.


It does not matter if he has dual citizenship. It does not matter if he lied about it. (These facts may cost him votes if they are proven, but that is a matter for the American electorate to decide, each individually.)

There is nothing in Article II that precludes Obama from being elected President. Barry is a natural born American, has never renounced his citizenship at an American embassy or consulate, and is eligible for the American Presidency under the Constitution and American law. I have disproven your assertions to the contrary. You have no legal leg to stand on. I might wish you did, but facts are facts.

As before my statement of the legal facts of the case does not constitute approval of Barry's candidacy or his possible election, both of which I oppose.

39 posted on 07/27/2008 4:08:17 AM PDT by Cheburashka (Democratic Underground: Ever wonder where all those who took the brown acid at Woodstock wound up?)
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To: Cheburashka

It certainly matters if he knowingly acted in a manner conversant with being a citizen of another nation, such as using a passport and presenting himself in foreign nations as citizen of another country.

Is he a natural born citizen? Probably. If so, why not publish his birth certificate? He hasn’t so far, for suspicious reasons, such as being born in Canada.

“Barry is a natural born American, has never renounced his citizenship at an American embassy or consulate, and is eligible for the American Presidency under the Constitution and American law.”

He call him “Barry” as though you know him personally; how interesting. Well, he is a damned liar on more that one level. Larry Sinclair has proved that - in spades!

He can be a citizen of the United States but still be ineligible to become President. Dual citizenship, being adopted by his stepfather and given Indonesian citizenship as a child, would not violate Article II of the U.S. Constitution if he never used his Indonesian passport after age 18.

But if he went to Indonesia in 1981 and swore he was a faithful Indonesian citizen just to go to Pakistan - it will be the stupidest act ever.


40 posted on 07/27/2008 6:28:12 AM PDT by SatinDoll (Desperately desiring a conservative government.)
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To: SatinDoll
He can be a citizen of the United States but still be ineligible to become President.

Under the American Constitution he is a natural born American citizen and eligible to run for the Presidency. Your wishes and desires that this not be true count for naught.

I will not discuss this further with you until you face reality.

41 posted on 07/27/2008 6:44:38 AM PDT by Cheburashka (Democratic Underground: Ever wonder where all those who took the brown acid at Woodstock wound up?)
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To: Cheburashka

You’re the one not living in reality, bub.


42 posted on 07/27/2008 6:49:02 AM PDT by SatinDoll (Desperately desiring a conservative government.)
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To: dascallie
Photobucket
43 posted on 07/27/2008 6:53:07 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: SatinDoll; Cheburashka
If you were an American tourist you couldn’t get a visa to enter Pakistan as it was on the U.S. State Department’s no-travel lists a very dangerous place.

1. Why would Pakistan refuse to grant a visa based on a U.S. travel warning?

2. Since the 1970's, has the US ever actually prohibited travel to any countries besides Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, and Libya?

3. Has the US ever prohibited travel to a country where we have an embassy?

4. The US did enact sanctions on Pakistan and stop economic aid in 1979 due to nuclear proliferation concerns (Symington amendment) but it is not clear that this included travel restrictions for US citizens. In 1981 this aid cutback was reversed with the granting of a huge U.S. military and economic aid package. Presumably a lot of Americans would have been needed to administer the associated programs.

5. This guy and this guy were able to study at universities in Pakistan in 1981.

6. These people and these people had fellowships to study in Pakistan in 1981.

Barack Obama traveled to Pakistan via Indonesia.

This seems quite possible since he may have been visiting his mother, but who besides Obama and his roommate would really know what route he took to Pakistan?

44 posted on 07/27/2008 2:57:28 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: WilliamReading; BenLurkin; Calpernia

h/t Calpernia

45 posted on 07/29/2008 6:04:02 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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