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How Many Wives Is Too Many? (Polygamy Is Biblical, Gays! Now Sit Down And Shut Up!)
Townhall.com ^ | 7/30/2008 | John Stossel

Posted on 07/29/2008 10:06:01 PM PDT by goldstategop

"Texas authorities on Tuesday indicted the leader of a polygamous sect ... on charges of felony sexual assault on a minor, the first criminal charges to stem from a massive raid on the group's West Texas compound," The Los Angeles Times reported last week (http://tinyurl.com/6oenlz).

The Associated Press and other media used similar words: "indicted polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs ... charges of felony sexual assault of a child."

Straightforward reporting? In my "20/20" special "Sex in America", polygamy activist Mark Henkel said no, it's an ignorant distortion.

"The media kept saying, 'Polygamist leader, polygamist leader,'" Henkel told me. "But the case actually involved incest and arranged marriage of a girl with her 19-year-old cousin. There wasn't anything [that] had to do with polygamy. [Jeffs] wasn't called an incest leader. He wasn't called an underage-marriage leader. He was called a polygamist leader."

Henkel and his website, TruthBearer, (www.truthbearer.org), campaign against the media and others who lump criminals like Jeffs with all polygamy.

Henkel won't reveal his own family situation. In Maine, where he lives, even purporting to have more than one wife is against the law. Henkel complains that American laws are hypocritical.

"Someone like a Hugh Hefner will have a successful television show with three live-in girlfriends! And that's all OK, and he's making great money, and that's all fine and great entertainment. But suddenly, if that man was to marry them, then suddenly he's a criminal. That's insane!"

Many people, when they hear the word "polygamy," think of fundamentalist Mormons living in cults, but the truth is that there's lots of polygamy in America that has nothing to do with that. First of all, polygamy was banned by the mainstream Mormon Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1890 and is grounds for excommunication. For my "20/20" special, we interviewed Jewish and evangelical Christian polygamists. Henkel's website is subtitled "Organization for Christian Polygamy." He estimates that there are 100,000 polygamists in America.

Ten years ago, University of Georgia Professor Patricia Dixon thought polygamy exploited women. Then she embarked on a study of it.

"I was transformed by the experience."

She spent years living with different polygamous communities. She was surprised to find that polygamy was not about men exploiting women.

"It's female-centered. The women are the ones who are benefiting. ..."

Wouldn't most people say it's about the men getting more sex with more women?

"It's not about another notch on your belt or anything like that. It really is the women who really promote this idea."

Plural marriage is common around the world. In the United States most get married in religious ceremonies but keep quiet about it because what they do is illegal.

The families we met wonder why what they do is illegal. Clearly it's wrong if an older man arranges marriages of young kids, but when adults choose to live this kind of life, why is that evil?

"Because we need marriage for the good of society. I think if we were to see this across the range of society the effect would be negative," Peter Sprigg of the Family Research Council (www.frc.org) told me. He added, "Slavery and polygamy were the twin relics of barbarism. Those are barbaric societies that we've tried to move beyond."

Plenty of religious leaders agree with Sprigg, but Mark Henkel isn't buying it. "If they're saying that's immoral, they're calling the greatest heroes in the Bible ... immoral! ... Saying that Abraham, with his three wives, was immoral. Jacob had four wives. David had seven known named wives before Bathsheba."

Prince Ben-Israel, who has four wives, calls plural marriage a civil-rights issue. "Who is this government that's in somebody's bedroom? ... It was illegal for me to marry a white woman at one time. ... It was illegal for me to vote at one time. And if I had accepted somebody else's definition of what was right and wrong, I would still be riding in the back of the bus.

"We're not saying this is for everybody. Everybody don't like football and basketball or tennis. But those who do oughta be free to do this."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: flds; johnstossel; libertarianism; notadamandsteve; polygamy; townhall
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There's biblical sanction for polygamy. There is NONE for same sex marriage. Hey gays, if you insist on redefining marriage, then ALL forms of sexual union are valid. Especially the ones mentioned in the Bible!

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

1 posted on 07/29/2008 10:06:01 PM PDT by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop

Of course, not all of the couples in the YFZ community were polygamous, either.


2 posted on 07/29/2008 10:08:27 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: goldstategop

I have no problem with the FLDS men having multiple wives and long as the wives are of age.


3 posted on 07/29/2008 10:10:54 PM PDT by trumandogz ("He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and it worries me." Sen Cochran on McCain)
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To: trumandogz

Serial monogamy is OK. Once you break up with them, there is no more nagging and nonsense....

But multiple wives? Imagine 6 women nagging you for the rest of your life.

These guys deserve a Purple Heart.

Of course you can flip it around ladies and say that a woman having to deal with 2 guys giving my wife as much grief as I do should be made a Saint.


4 posted on 07/29/2008 10:18:49 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: goldstategop

Hey gays! If you are not having a good time, stand up, kick yourself in the rear and sit back down.


5 posted on 07/29/2008 10:19:59 PM PDT by jonrick46
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To: trumandogz

“I have no problem with the FLDS men having multiple wives and long as the wives are of age.”

When people are adults, they can do as they darn well please. It’s a free country, even though I personally do not condone it nor would I practice it. But it’s still a free country last time I checked. Having sex with underage girls is totally another matter. I agree with you about that.

I have been very “vocal” in my opposition to the raid and roundup of innocent children and the attempt to annihilate the entire FLDS community. That stinks!


6 posted on 07/29/2008 10:25:43 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: goldstategop

Well let’s see, a blond, a brunette, a redhead, another brunette....


7 posted on 07/29/2008 10:28:15 PM PDT by Impy (Spellcheck hates Obama, you should too.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

I think these women are meek and submissive. I doubt very much that would dare nag. I could be almost a muslimesque situation for them.


8 posted on 07/29/2008 10:30:31 PM PDT by Impy (Spellcheck hates Obama, you should too.)
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To: goldstategop

“Hey gays, if you insist on redefining marriage, then ALL forms of sexual union are valid. Especially the ones mentioned in the Bible!”

You’re under the impression that gay people are somehow standing in the way of you having 30 or 40 wives?


9 posted on 07/29/2008 10:42:48 PM PDT by skipper18
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To: Impy

That meek and submissive stuff is probably just brilliant acting on their part.


10 posted on 07/29/2008 10:43:07 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: goldstategop

Can I enter into a domestic partnership with my dog? She would qualify for my health benefits under my company plan.

Than I wouldn’t have to pay out of pocket for the bitch’s vet visits.


11 posted on 07/29/2008 10:46:19 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: goldstategop
The dog really needs medical care.

Photobucket

12 posted on 07/29/2008 10:52:26 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: goldstategop

Having more than one wife should fit the Supreme Court definition of cruel and unusual punishment.

I can’t imagine why a man would knowingly walk into such a hellish fate.


13 posted on 07/29/2008 10:53:24 PM PDT by JennysCool
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To: Impy
It's hammered in them to "Keep Sweet".


14 posted on 07/29/2008 10:57:04 PM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
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To: Eric Blair 2084

This is Annette, Warren Jeffs' 1st wife. She was the home economics instructor at Alta Academy.

Once, in front of boys and girls gathered in the meeting hall, Warren grabbed Annette's long braided hair, twisting it slowly around his hand, tightening his grip until she dropped to the floor, her face turning crimson and contorting in pain.

She didn't make a sound or movement of protest.

He told the boys that this was how obedient their wives had to be to them. He let go and left the room with no apology to his wife, who stood up, straightened her hair, and went back to teaching.

Annette grasps well the concept of 'Keeping Sweet.'"

When Warren was captured, he was with Naomi Jeffs, a beautiful 32-year-old blond with hair to her knees who was both Warren’s former stepmother and the wife he reportedly called "91".

15 posted on 07/29/2008 11:00:53 PM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
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To: goldstategop

I thought the CPS case was all about the alleged child abuse, and everything since then has involved abuse of the children.

I thought polygamy (and it’s polygyny, technically) was just a factor in the investigations of the CPS.

The recent Senate committee hearing involved testimony by witnesses about all the factors that contributed to sex with minors.

The politicians , as usual, contributed nonsense and excuses and promises to the hearing.

Polygamy was talked about, and I’m pretty sure the main concern of the whole committee wasn’t polygamy, but it’s use to conceal crimes.

That is all above and beyond the YFZ Ranch case in Texas, though.

The FLDS doesn’t have to defend against polygamy, or polygyny (dang, that’s hard to spell), because so far, no one has indicted anyone for it.


16 posted on 07/29/2008 11:02:44 PM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: Impy

Alimony, palimony, child support, and why don’t you make more money.


17 posted on 07/29/2008 11:03:05 PM PDT by Hi Heels (Now here at the Rock we have two rules. Rule #1 obey all rules. Rule #2 no writing on the walls...)
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To: skipper18

Let gay people have civil unions. Let each of them have 873 civil unions at one time. Why do I care?

As long as it stays in California or MA.

Instead of calling it marriage there we can call it something else. I now pronounce you....

Anal Allies
Butt Buddies
Colon Comrades

This way everyone will be happy. It won’t be “marriage”.


18 posted on 07/29/2008 11:03:47 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

There is an old saying in the Middle East: one key in your pocket is silent while two or more make a jangle.


19 posted on 07/29/2008 11:03:59 PM PDT by SatinDoll (Desperately desiring a conservative government.)
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To: JennysCool
I can’t imagine why a man would knowingly walk into such a hellish fate.

I can.

20 posted on 07/29/2008 11:05:05 PM PDT by SolidWood (Obamarxislamism, the threat to our Republic!)
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To: JennysCool

Hey, from what I understand (which is nothing)

If you take a group of females, and have them all live in the same shared domicile, they quickly synchronize and have their PMS at the same time every month.

A time when “the more the merrier” isn’t true.


21 posted on 07/29/2008 11:08:13 PM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: goldstategop
How many wives is too many?

One. What did I win?

22 posted on 07/29/2008 11:08:24 PM PDT by Pylon (Remember boys, flies spread disease, so keep yours closed.)
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To: Hi Heels

In reality I’d never get the government involved with a personal relationship.


23 posted on 07/29/2008 11:10:54 PM PDT by Impy (Spellcheck hates Obama, you should too.)
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To: Alice in Wonderland

Uhhhh, please. This is a political forum. Not one of those “sick” websites that you heard about. But that is a nice fantasy.

I’m joking, please don’t take me seriously.

I don’t know. I’m going to sleep.

Please feel free to call me all kinds of names while I’m sleeping and not here to respond. :-)

I’ll wake up tomorrow and my wife will be yelling at me to do something.


24 posted on 07/29/2008 11:12:27 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: UCANSEE2

Exactly.

Polygamy is AMAZINGLY overrated.


25 posted on 07/29/2008 11:13:25 PM PDT by JennysCool
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To: Eric Blair 2084

In New York City it’s called “Domestic Partnership”. Since 1998 extended workplace benefits were granted to the domestic partners of municipal employees.


26 posted on 07/29/2008 11:13:31 PM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
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To: Impy

I agree. Too much government already for my liking.


27 posted on 07/29/2008 11:13:39 PM PDT by Hi Heels (Now here at the Rock we have two rules. Rule #1 obey all rules. Rule #2 no writing on the walls...)
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To: goldstategop
Who is this government that's in somebody's bedroom?

The same one that's in my wallet... >:(

28 posted on 07/29/2008 11:14:04 PM PDT by DTogo (I haven't left the GOP, the GOP left me.)
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To: SatinDoll

How about:

Wise man ducks, before the camel spits.


29 posted on 07/29/2008 11:14:04 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Alice in Wonderland

Link?


30 posted on 07/29/2008 11:20:13 PM PDT by Hi Heels (Now here at the Rock we have two rules. Rule #1 obey all rules. Rule #2 no writing on the walls...)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

How does that relate to polygamy?


31 posted on 07/29/2008 11:22:23 PM PDT by SatinDoll (Desperately desiring a conservative government.)
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To: Gondring

“Of course, not all of the couples in the YFZ community were polygamous, either.”

That is true.

There were families, that lived in the ‘burbs’, so to speak, who were FLDS members, but did not accept the spirit brides concept in the same way Warren wanted.

The FLDS doesn’t HAVE to keep polygamy, to keep being FLDS.

The FLDS doesn’t HAVE to keep ‘child brides’, to keep being FLDS.

The existence of some few members, who would not bow down to Warren as God, and accepted the laws of the US and Texas, is proof.



32 posted on 07/29/2008 11:22:31 PM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Amen, brother. I have six dogs, one blind, one arthritic, two chihuahuas (I should qualify for counseling for those)and two pekinese who constantly snuff foxtails up their noses.


33 posted on 07/29/2008 11:22:47 PM PDT by Hi Heels (Now here at the Rock we have two rules. Rule #1 obey all rules. Rule #2 no writing on the walls...)
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To: JennysCool

It’s why I insist the FLDS men either work 23 hours a day, or they do some really good drugs.


34 posted on 07/29/2008 11:29:22 PM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: goldstategop

The way I see it, if the State doesn’t allow or recognize polygamy, there can be no polygamy—fraud, perhaps, but not polygamy.


35 posted on 07/29/2008 11:32:09 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Barack Obama--the first black Jimmy Carter.)
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To: Hi Heels; Alice in Wonderland
Guy with afro, in the middle.

: )

36 posted on 07/29/2008 11:33:30 PM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: UCANSEE2

*snort* Makes about as much sense.....


37 posted on 07/29/2008 11:35:58 PM PDT by Hi Heels (Now here at the Rock we have two rules. Rule #1 obey all rules. Rule #2 no writing on the walls...)
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To: Eric Blair 2084
That meek and submissive stuff is probably just brilliant acting on their part.

Yep. And they can stay in character 24/7 for their entire lifetimes. Surely that should be worth an Oscar.

38 posted on 07/29/2008 11:36:16 PM PDT by goldfinch
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To: jonrick46

“kick yourself in the rear and sit back down.”

If they could do that, why would they ever go out?


39 posted on 07/29/2008 11:37:49 PM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: Hi Heels
The Salt Lake Tribune

When Men Become Gods -- Mormon Polygamist Warren Jeffs, His Cult of Fear, And The Women Who Fought Back by Stephen Singular. He testified at the senate hearing last week.

ESCAPE by Carolyn Jessop. She also testified at the hearing.

40 posted on 07/29/2008 11:41:23 PM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
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To: Hi Heels; Alice in Wonderland

I have no doubt Alicein can post a link.

I don’t think she’s awake at the moment.

IIRC, that is from an article. They weren’t her words, but were text from a source.


41 posted on 07/29/2008 11:41:37 PM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: goldstategop

Finally a common sense article on Free Republic about polygamy! Of course don’t bother the people on here who’ve already made their mind up with facts or anything.. very much like liberals.
Real conservatives research issues and make sure they know all the facts before they jump to conclusions..


42 posted on 07/29/2008 11:44:36 PM PDT by Awestruck (All the usual suspects)
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To: Hi Heels; Alice in Wonderland

I could be wrong about the being asleep part.


43 posted on 07/29/2008 11:50:22 PM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: Awestruck

“Finally a common sense article on Free Republic about polygamy! “

If we’re gonna discuss polygamy, can the focus be on Hugh Hefner?

I’m not asking for pictures, necessarily, because you know I only read Playboy for the articles.


44 posted on 07/29/2008 11:53:03 PM PDT by UCANSEE2
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To: goldstategop
"If they're saying that's immoral, they're calling the greatest heroes in the Bible ... immoral! ... Saying that Abraham, with his three wives, was immoral. Jacob had four wives. David had seven known named wives before Bathsheba."

A careful study of the Bible will reveal the following:

1. That Abraham's concubinage, not marriage, with Hagar was evil in God's sight which is a factor in Ishmael's being cast out. Abraham's marriage to Keturah was after Sarah's death when he was a widower.

2) That Jacob's marriage to two sisters is condemned by the law as later revealed, and his concubinage with two maid servants was not approved. The point of the misery of Jacob in his marriage relations, the jealousy of his wives and sons was to show that God's displeasure with it.

3) David's multiplying wives was forbidden as king by the law. This sin in Solomon lead in part to the division of the kingdom.

4) The original polygamist was wicked Lamech, a descendant of Cain, who with his house was destroyed (drowned) in the flood when the chronology is put together.

In Malachi 2;15 it is stated that God gave Adam one wife. The point of the text is that God had the Spirit, could have given him multiple wives, not just Eve, if He had wanted to do so.

Jesus repeatedly condemns divorce as adultery, remarriage after divorce as adultery and He emphasizes one man + one woman for life. This is the consistent teaching of the Bible.

That God forgave and endured the sins of the Old Testament does not constitute a sanction of them. Their corruption of marriage was immoral. "from the beginning it was not so," Jesus said so.

45 posted on 07/29/2008 11:53:39 PM PDT by verklaring (Pyrite is not gold)
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To: UCANSEE2
I took a long nap today and I'm wide awake.

I'll regret it in the morning since my 3 grandkids are here and expect me to take them somewhere tomorrow morning.

46 posted on 07/29/2008 11:59:59 PM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
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To: UCANSEE2

I’d be curious to see the credibility of that source.


47 posted on 07/30/2008 12:03:41 AM PDT by Hi Heels (Now here at the Rock we have two rules. Rule #1 obey all rules. Rule #2 no writing on the walls...)
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To: Hi Heels
The links I posted in #40 were about Annette Jeffs. The information about Naomi Jeffs came from Satan's Accountant.
48 posted on 07/30/2008 12:08:13 AM PDT by Alice in Wonderland
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To: Alice in Wonderland
Interesting. I have no argument with your post, but it is presented by the corp that bought Rolling Stone magazine, so it becomes suspect IMHO. Jest sayin'. I haven't seen this info posted anywhere else but here.

I should get to sleep soon, too. I took a nap today, so I'm wide awake and my daughter decided it would be a great idea for me to go to a John Mellencamp concert with her for MY birthday tomorrow. Next year I'm going to request a shovel to the head instead.

49 posted on 07/30/2008 12:16:29 AM PDT by Hi Heels (Now here at the Rock we have two rules. Rule #1 obey all rules. Rule #2 no writing on the walls...)
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To: Hi Heels

“I’d be curious to see the credibility of that source.”

I’m flattered. But I don’t know you that well.

(just kidding)

I think Alicein posted some links.


50 posted on 07/30/2008 12:17:36 AM PDT by UCANSEE2
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