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Oil economics are blowing us to wind and sun energy
Houston Chronicle ^ | 07/22/2008 | James Tisch

Posted on 07/30/2008 12:02:28 PM PDT by cogitator

click here to read article


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To: RightWhale

Fusion has been nearly ready for 30 years. I even visited the Tokamak facility many, many years ago.

I have a buddy who works for the INEL and he is quite confident that he isn’t going to see a working fusion reactor in his lifetime. Of course changing the funding from millions to billions, getting competing projects and treating it like the space race might change that dramatically : )

A much better short term solution is to start building lots of nukes and coal gasification plants with them.


41 posted on 07/30/2008 4:11:43 PM PDT by LeGrande
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To: TexasRepublic
If this 639 pound car is hit by a 2,000 pound car, guess which one is going to suffer the most damage?

Seen how well SUVs are selling lately?

Seriously, the current economics are causing many more people to buy smaller vehicles, by choice or not. You can always say that a smaller vehicle will fare poorly in a collision with a larger vehicle. Over time, the percentages of each in the total vehicle population will change.

Can you say whiplash?


42 posted on 07/30/2008 8:50:16 PM PDT by cogitator
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To: Uncledave

for the renewable energy ping list


43 posted on 07/31/2008 12:50:04 AM PDT by Kevmo (A person's a person, no matter how small. ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: cogitator

Wind and solar energy is a hoax. It will forever be a minor source of energy.


44 posted on 07/31/2008 1:56:40 AM PDT by Mogollon ($5/gal Gas....Kick the Jacka$$es Out!)
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To: old gringo

That is the dim mantra.

LLS


45 posted on 07/31/2008 4:24:11 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (REAGANISM... NOT communism!!!)
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To: RedStateRocker; Dementon; eraser2005; Calpernia; DTogo; Maelstrom; Yehuda; babble-on; ...
Renewable Energy Ping

Please Freep Mail me if you'd like on/off

46 posted on 07/31/2008 10:05:16 AM PDT by Uncledave (Zombie Reagan '08)
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To: RightWhale

You have any useful and credible links on fusion developments?


47 posted on 07/31/2008 10:13:57 AM PDT by Uncledave (Zombie Reagan '08)
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To: webboy45
There is a practical way to store energy so that it is available on demand. There is a power plant where a manmade lake was built on top of a tall hill.

When demand is low, (like during the night), water is pumped up the hill into the lake.

When demand exceeds the plant's power production capability the water in the lake is released and it flows down the hill and the motor generator which pumped the water up the hill now generates the electricity that was stored as kinetic energy.

How about this. Windmills along the gulf coast would generate electricity which would hydrolize water into Oxygen and Hydrogen. These gases would be piped to those near desert places like Lubbock, Colorado Springs, OK City, etc. There the gases would be used as fuel for Fuel Cell, (BTW these are some truck borne fuel cell generators for emergency usage). Electricity would be generator and the byproduct, WATER!, would be used for civilian consumption.

Meanwhile for every cubic mile of seawater processed one ton of gold would be recovered. Also bromine chlorine etc.

You squeeze the apple properly and you get more than just the "juice"

48 posted on 07/31/2008 11:00:40 AM PDT by Young Werther (Julius Caesar (Quae Cum Ita Sunt. Since these things are so.))
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To: Young Werther
Meanwhile for every cubic mile of seawater processed one ton of gold would be recovered.

I believe that is a myth.

just 1 gram of gold for every 100 million tonnes of sea water

Science: Gold in sea water - not enough to get rich

49 posted on 07/31/2008 11:13:11 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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Forgot the link

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg12717242.800-science-gold-in-sea-water—not-enough-to-get-rich-.html


50 posted on 07/31/2008 11:14:26 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Young Werther
Bad Creek
51 posted on 07/31/2008 11:14:34 AM PDT by cogitator
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To: cogitator

Thanks for the link!


52 posted on 07/31/2008 11:21:23 AM PDT by Young Werther (Julius Caesar (Quae Cum Ita Sunt. Since these things are so.))
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To: cogitator
The free market rules.

Absolutely!

A free market uses the cheapest most readily acceptable source of energy until market forces (either supply or demand) make it no longer the cheapest and the market moves on to the next cheapest source.

The market is not good or bad it just is the most efficient method to serve the most people.

The free and transparent market always rules.
53 posted on 07/31/2008 11:27:35 AM PDT by Mikey_1962
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To: Mikey_1962
The market is not good or bad it just is the most efficient method to serve the most people.

seeing a comment like this encourages me to donate to FR.

54 posted on 07/31/2008 11:29:22 AM PDT by alrea
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To: Slapshot68

I stopped reading right there. Unfortunately it was near the end of the article.


55 posted on 07/31/2008 12:28:09 PM PDT by BJClinton (I say potatoe, you say 57 states.)
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To: cheee

Excellent answer!
Another question for you, if it’s not a bother.
http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/E85PaperEST0207.pdf
It was brought to my attention, that when using E85 in a combustion engine that ‘human carcinogens emitted during gasoline and E85 combustion are formaldehyde,
acetaldehyde, 1,3-butadiene, and benzene’.

Since ethanol is being marketed as a ‘clean fuel’. Shouldn’t these issues be raised?


56 posted on 07/31/2008 1:46:59 PM PDT by griswold3 (Al qaeda is guilty of hirabah (war against society) Penalty is death.)
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To: Uncledave
useful and credible links on fusion developments

The major international program is ITER.

57 posted on 07/31/2008 1:53:47 PM PDT by RightWhale (Exxon Suxx)
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To: IrishCatholic; cogitator
Paragraph 3. Did the price of wind energy take into account the subsidies and tax breaks? What is the adjusted cost after those are figured in?

Free market my patootie.

It's all baloney:

"The EIA estimates that by 2015, wind energy will cost 7 cents per kilowatt-hour to produce, just a half-cent more than coal or natural gas." (underline mine)

Wind power: A reality check

This is from CNN Money no less!

The only way wind works is if the eco-freak gang drive up the price of electricity by government imposition of their Global Warming nonsense.

58 posted on 07/31/2008 2:13:01 PM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: facedown
It's all baloney:

Interesting article. While it mentions climate change/global warming, it doesn't mention one other main reason to increase the use of renewable/alternative energy; reduction of economic dependence on foreign imports, i.e., less vulnerability to price shocks as well as the slow inexorable increase of oil prices due to increasing demand. If a considerable amount of energy is generated from sources other than oil, that will definitely reduce the price of oil because demand will drop significantly.

59 posted on 07/31/2008 3:15:19 PM PDT by cogitator
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To: griswold3

“Since ethanol is being marketed as a ‘clean fuel’. Shouldn’t these issues be raised?”

Ethanol is being marketed as a ‘renewable fuel’. That’s its ticket to being ‘green’ - that you can’t use-it-up, you can grow more next season. Generally, I’d say that grain-based ethanol would be essentially pure ethanol; it would not have many impurities.

An internal combustion engine produces small, but significant, undesirable reactions that produce toxic compounds, NOx, SO2, etc. High temperatures and high pressures will do that. And diesel is worse. That’s what your catalytic converter is cleaning up. Using Ethanol will improve, but not eliminate this phenomenon.

Note too that E85 still has 15% gasoline, so you may limit, but not eliminate gasoline-related pollutants.

So, to answer your question directly, it probably does produce small quantities of those chemicals - but no worse pollutants than a purely gasoline powered engine.

One other factoid to pass along: I stumped my family recently in a discussion of fuels. The question: “Why do most fork trucks/forklifts use propane as fuel?”

Answer: Fork trucks are generally used indoors (warehouses mostly) and the propane used produces the least pollutants of any hydrocarbon-based fuel. Of course, Natural Gas falls into this category, too. That’s why the mass-produced Honda CNG car falls into a special category of ‘almost’ pollution-free.

I hope that was helpful, thanks for asking...

cheee


60 posted on 07/31/2008 5:43:53 PM PDT by cheee (It's better to be careful 100 times than to be killed once. - Mark Twain)
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