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Gene variant may make people transsexual
The Telegraph ^ | July 30, 2008 | Jessica Salter

Posted on 07/31/2008 4:27:41 PM PDT by LAforme2008

Female transsexuals may have their genes to blame for feeling like they belong to the wrong sex.

Scientists identified a specific gene variant in female-to-male transsexuals that meant they had been exposed to higher levels of sex hormones during their early development.

Almost half the female-to-male transsexuals in the study carried the gene variant.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Health/Medicine
KEYWORDS: gender; genetics; homosexualagenda; mentalhealth; sexuality; transgender; transsexual

1 posted on 07/31/2008 4:27:42 PM PDT by LAforme2008
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To: LAforme2008

Key words here : MAY; HALF


2 posted on 07/31/2008 4:32:21 PM PDT by SumProVita ("Cogito ergo sum pro vita." .....updated Descartes)
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To: SumProVita
Like a missing verse from the Lennon song:

Imagine all deviancy,
caused by wayward genes .....

3 posted on 07/31/2008 4:35:09 PM PDT by Disturbin (Liberals: buying votes with your tax dollars)
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To: Disturbin

Being transexual is hard on the genes.


4 posted on 07/31/2008 4:36:31 PM PDT by csmusaret (McCain and Obama represent the evil of two lessers.)
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To: Disturbin

“Imagine all deviancy,
caused by wayward genes .....”

I’d rather blame it on another
than to honestly come clean...


5 posted on 07/31/2008 4:39:06 PM PDT by SumProVita ("Cogito ergo sum pro vita." .....updated Descartes)
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To: LAforme2008

The cause of male-to-female is pretty much known. Female-to-male remains something of a mystery. Given the relatively low occurrence of the gene, this explanation sounds unlikely.


6 posted on 07/31/2008 4:39:40 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Islam: Imagine a clown car.........with guns.)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

given the relatively low ratio of Female-to-males compared to Male-to-females, I think that it does make some sense.


7 posted on 07/31/2008 4:44:39 PM PDT by LAforme2008
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To: LAforme2008

An Addadicktome is probably harder than a chopadickoffme.


8 posted on 07/31/2008 4:47:48 PM PDT by pissant (THE Conservative party: www.falconparty.com)
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To: LAforme2008

I’m sure you need a knife too.


9 posted on 07/31/2008 4:48:41 PM PDT by ElkGroveDan (The road to hell is paved with the stones of pragmatism.)
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To: LAforme2008

For a longtime I though alcohol made me bright, witty and funny at parties but I was wrong.


10 posted on 07/31/2008 4:49:45 PM PDT by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: LAforme2008

I guess now we can look forward to seeing “documentaries” on Nat’l Geo and Animal Planet about “transexual” skunks and badgers. Badgers? Badgers? We don’t need no stinkin’ badgers! Sorry. I’m losing my mind like everyone else on this planet!


11 posted on 07/31/2008 4:52:33 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (He's Obama not Denzel. This is reality not a movie! Think before you vote!)
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To: LAforme2008

They are missing a variant in their jeans, alright.


12 posted on 07/31/2008 4:53:45 PM PDT by ConservaTexan (February 6, 1911)
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To: pissant
An Addadicktome is probably harder than a chopadickoffme.

Only they don't chop it off; they turn it inside-out.

13 posted on 07/31/2008 4:57:30 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Barack Obama--the first black Jimmy Carter.)
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To: LAforme2008
Almost half the female-to-male transsexuals in the study carried the gene variant.

It's not a variant, it's a deviant.

14 posted on 07/31/2008 5:03:48 PM PDT by ikka
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To: ikka

“Almost half the female-to-male transsexuals in the study carried the gene variant.

Yeah, they looked in the mirror and saw they looked bad in jeans. Hence, female to male makeover time.


15 posted on 07/31/2008 5:15:47 PM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: LAforme2008
44% compared to 31%? No. That doesn't seem likely...you'd expect 90% to 31%.

Heck, I'd expect over 50% at the very least.

16 posted on 07/31/2008 5:16:50 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Islam: Imagine a clown car.........with guns.)
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To: Disturbin

“Imagine all deviancy,
caused by wayward genes .....”

In the late 40’s and early 50’s, many physicians prescribed a drug know as DES for women that were having difficulties during their pregnancies. While the drug helped save many of these pregnancies, it also had an unintended consequences: It caused abnormal sexual development in many of these fetuses. DES was found to have caused hermophroditism as well as male and female genital deformities. The drug produced abnormal levels of certain hormones which are critical in fetal development. This has been documented in various studies.

As to whether this recently discovered gene variant impacts physical and or psycho sexual development, the science is not at all definitive at this point in time. Further study of this is probably merited.

If you were using the term “deviancy” in the scientific sense, I agree with you. It you were using it to describe moral perversity, that is something different entirely. From the sarcastic nature of your post, I will assume that you are using the second definition, otherwise, your post would make no sense.


17 posted on 07/31/2008 5:36:22 PM PDT by awaken2spirit (When one fornicates with ignorance, the result of that union is chaos.)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham

I really don’t want to think about that!!! Gack!


18 posted on 07/31/2008 5:36:26 PM PDT by the anti-liberal
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To: LAforme2008

Sheesh, how stupid. Mental illness, surgery and hormone “therapy” is what causes transsexuality.


19 posted on 07/31/2008 6:06:56 PM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: ViLaLuz
Gene variant may make people transsexual

Like bell-bottom, hip-hugger, or embroidered?
20 posted on 07/31/2008 6:08:04 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: awaken2spirit
There are numerous birth defects in the world and yet so many are unwilling to consider that transexualism is a birth defect.

Whatever its underlying cause, it is very real and those that experience do not do so from mental illness, but from their earliest age recognized that they were very different than the other boys around them.

Not all are drag queens and flamboyant "fags"

Others just want to appear on the outside, who they know they are on the inside, and have known since 3 -4 years of age.

21 posted on 07/31/2008 6:37:18 PM PDT by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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To: ViLaLuz
Thanks for the update

BTW - where did you go to med school?

22 posted on 07/31/2008 6:40:03 PM PDT by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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To: LAforme2008

Explains a lot about Barbara Boxer and Hillary Clinton.....


23 posted on 07/31/2008 6:42:25 PM PDT by Enchante (Obambi goes to GERMANY to apologize for unwarranted (sic) aggression!)
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To: LAforme2008

"These genes come from another galaxy, of course!"

24 posted on 07/31/2008 6:49:54 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Drill Here! Drill Now! Pay Less! Sign the petition at http://www.americansolutions.com/)
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To: Bear_Slayer

People have either XX or XY genes that make them either man or woman. True there are the rare hermaphodites in between, but you can’t compare that to transsexualism or cross-dressing.


25 posted on 08/01/2008 3:07:55 AM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: aruanan

“Like bell-bottom, hip-hugger, or embroidered?”

Or Gene Simmons, Gene Autry ...


26 posted on 08/01/2008 3:09:10 AM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: ViLaLuz
One's chromosomes determine anatomy. Your anatomy does not determine who you are.

One's anatomy plays a huge role in how the world see's that person and how that person is required to interact with the world, but one's anatomy and chromosomes do not determine who they are.

Is it simply breasts and a vagina that make a woman significantly different in personality than a man?

Why do women like the things they like and do the things they do? Is it because they have a vagina? Obviously not.

There is something innately different about women. I don't mean anatomically or physiologically. I mean with how they interact in the world.

Babies are born with defects all day long. Some of those defects are very visible.

Why is it impossible to understand or believe that a baby could be born male, but innately they are female? It's no fault of their's.

Freddie Mercury drag queens and cross-dressers are offensive to me, and I believe they do so to shock, or excite certain segments of society. I think they do a gross disservice to those people that were born into bodies and lives that they did not feel at home in. Their personalities did not match who they were on the inside and they simply wished to live life, and express themselves in a manner that was more comfortable with who they really are.

Would you consider a baby born with some visible physical defect, a freak? Why then someone that is born into a body that does not reflect their personality and interests?

27 posted on 08/01/2008 3:51:52 AM PDT by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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To: Bear_Slayer

“One’s chromosomes determine anatomy.”
—Agreed.

“Your anatomy does not determine who you are.”
—Sorry, I don’t buy that secular humanist pap.

“One’s anatomy plays a huge role in how the world see’s that person and how that person is required to interact with the world, but one’s anatomy and chromosomes do not determine who they are.”
—Anatomy is the physical reality of a man or woman’s identity. It’s not to be confused with free will. If a man wants to think he’s a woman, he can choose to do that, but it doesn’t negate the physical reality of his XY chromosome. He is living in a delusion.

“Is it simply breasts and a vagina that make a woman significantly different in personality than a man?”
—Along with the physical reality of anatomy, there is also the mental and spiritual realm.

“Why do women like the things they like and do the things they do? Is it because they have a vagina? Obviously not.”
—Having a vagina is only part of it. Don’t forget about the mental and spiritual parts of a whole person.

“There is something innately different about women. I don’t mean anatomically or physiologically. I mean with how they interact in the world.”
—Innately means they were born with an XX chromasome. And yes, I agree women are innately different than men.

“Babies are born with defects all day long. Some of those defects are very visible.”
—Agree. But most transsexuals don’t have this issue. They are either clearly XX or XY. The deviation most likely is mental or spiritual.

“Why is it impossible to understand or believe that a baby could be born male, but innately they are female? It’s no fault of their’s.”
—Because innately a person is born either XX or XY, unless there is a genetic defect of the hermaphrodite. The case there is very rare.

“Freddie Mercury drag queens and cross-dressers are offensive to me, and I believe they do so to shock, or excite certain segments of society. I think they do a gross disservice to those people that were born into bodies and lives that they did not feel at home in.”
—I don’t think Freddie Mercury was an actual transsexual. He didn’t have the surgery, did he? I though he was only a theatrical homosexual. Are you mixing up cross-dressers with transsexuals?

“Their personalities did not match who they were on the inside and they simply wished to live life, and express themselves in a manner that was more comfortable with who they really are.”
—This is a mental/spiritual issue, which has nothing to do with genetics.

“Would you consider a baby born with some visible physical defect, a freak?”
—Not so much a ‘freak,’ but an anomaly. Having a mix-up concerning XX and XY is not normal. But most transsexuals don’t have this problem.

“Why then someone that is born into a body that does not reflect their personality and interests?”
—For the majority of transsexuals, the problem is mental and spiritual. People have the free will to choose their interests, and the personality is also a reflection of mental state. Just because a man wishes he could be a woman doesn’t make is so, even after surgery. The reality of anatomy cannot be denied.

The woman who had surgery to “make her a man” recently had a baby. She may think she’s a man, and media and society may call her a man, but she had a baby. She’s a woman—a very confused woman. That can’t be denied.


28 posted on 08/01/2008 7:30:26 AM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: Bear_Slayer

“Your anatomy does not determine who you are.”
—Sorry, I don’t buy that secular humanist pap.

Let me add this, too. The creator made us man or woman. We aren’t God. We didn’t get a choice between XX or XY when we were forming in our mothers’ wombs.

“Your anatomy does not determine who you are” in regards to gender is rebellion against the creator.


29 posted on 08/01/2008 7:36:11 AM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: ViLaLuz

“Let me add this, too. The creator made us man or woman.”

Not everybody believes that there is a “creator” or a “god.”


30 posted on 08/01/2008 9:40:42 AM PDT by LAforme2008
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To: LAforme2008

“Not everybody believes that there is a “creator” or a “god.””

You are 100% correct. We have the free will to believe or not believe in God.

But that still doesn’t negate the fact that people are born either XX or XY, aside from rare exceptions otherwise.


31 posted on 08/01/2008 11:15:40 AM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: Bear_Slayer

“One’s chromosomes determine anatomy. Your anatomy does not determine who you are.”

It can even be more complicated. Example: Women, who have androgen insensitivity syndrome. They have breasts and a vagina, but they are actually XY. Why? There is a gene on the X chromosome called AR, the androgen receptor. In their case, the gene is an anomaly, and will not allow the transport of androgen across the cell membrane. They do identify as women.

Yet, another example: Women with complet gonadal agenesis, who are XY, and have a vagina, uterus, and fallopian tubes, but no gonads. They fail to develop breasts, and require hormone therapy to physically mature. They also develop a female gender identity.

Then, let’s examine the case of girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia. There is a genetic anomaly, that blocks the production of cortisol. The result is high levels of androgens in the fetal blood stream. Typically, these individuals exhibit various degrees of physical masculinization (fusing of the labia, enlargement of the clitoris, etc.) Behaviorally, they are referred to as tomboys, and some research has indicated about 40% of them are lesbian. In extreme cases, the labia will completely fuse, and the clitoris will become a phallus. The child will most probably identify as a boy, even though they are XX.


32 posted on 08/01/2008 4:08:24 PM PDT by punster
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To: ViLaLuz
Obviously you are a christian.

In short then you're saying, "God makes babies and God does not make mistakes. Therefore claiming to be a woman makes God a liar and for him to change would be a sin against God."

Explain all the birth defects that exit in the world. Including chromosonal mistakes that exist in determining what anatomical gender a person is?

Yes, God is responsible for the soul of a person, which is the seat of their personality. The soul is where the intellect, likes, dislikes, &etc come from.

You mean to tell me that with all the defects that occur in a fallen world including chromosonal defects, that it is not possible for the soul of a person, that is essentially feminine in nature, to occur in a foetus that develops as a male? Bullshit!

Transsexual don't decide as a passing thought, "Wouldn't be fun to be a woman?"

They struggle all their lives with the fact that they are essentially different than the other people that anatomically look like them. People with dicks.

They're not good at sports, they don't fit in with crowds of men. They have no innate interest in the things that men do, I could go on almost endlessly. However, put them in a room full of women and they fit right in. They excel. Why? Because they are amongst their own.

Are they pussies or wimps -- YES!, but only because they've got a swinging dick. Who they are on the inside is not who they are on the outside. Anatomical women are not pussies and wimps. Why? Because their bodies are inline with who their soul is on the inside.

Transsexuals spend years trying to hide, run from, and suppress the fact that they are not like all the other guys. They try harder. They compete harder, they join the military, they get tattoos, they fight. Not because they like those things, but because they are trying to convince themselves and others that they are just the same, when deep inside they know they are not.

And after years of failing to fit in many turn to suicide. The braver ones, that openly express who they are inwardly, are often killed by those that are freaked out by them. Would you kill an 9-legged baby -- one of God's mistakes or would you fix her through science and medicine?

Shit happens it's a fallen world people are born all the time with defects. It's not mental. Drugs, counseling, repentance, and hanging out with the guys more often does not fix it. I should know. I'm 44 years old. I still got my swinging dick and my tattoos, but inwardly I'm not like the rest of you. I've understood since I was 3 years old.

I'm a christian too. A very conservative one too, but I can't change the fact of who I am. Repentance didn't fix me.

I would still rather be in the kitchen with the women.

Its where I fit in. Trying living in two worlds for 44 years sometime. Its not easy.

Anyhow I'm out. Call me a pussy to my face and I'll kick your a$$.

Give me shit in this forum or any other forum and I will hunt you down in your little world and beat you.

33 posted on 08/02/2008 7:30:47 AM PDT by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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To: Bear_Slayer

“Obviously you are a christian.”
—Yes, I am.

“In short then you’re saying, “God makes babies and God does not make mistakes. Therefore claiming to be a woman makes God a liar and for him to change would be a sin against God.”
—No, please don’t put words in my mouth. I do agree God doesn’t make mistakes, but a man claiming to be a woman makes the man a “liar”. A man cannot change into a woman, and thinking he can is a delusion.

“Explain all the birth defects that exit in the world. Including chromosonal mistakes that exist in determining what anatomical gender a person is?”
—This is an imperfect, fallen world. As I said before, there are the few chromosomal anomalies—like the ones described in post 32—but most transsexuals don’t suffer that type of physical deviation.

“Yes, God is responsible for the soul of a person, which is the seat of their personality. The soul is where the intellect, likes, dislikes, &etc come from.”
—God gave us a soul. He gave us responsibility for it on Earth through free will.

“You mean to tell me that with all the defects that occur in a fallen world including chromosonal defects, that it is not possible for the soul of a person, that is essentially feminine in nature, to occur in a foetus that develops as a male? Bullshit!”
—No need to cuss at me, please don’t. I agree there are people that are truly suffering a chromosomal anomaly, but they represent the rare case and are outside of what I’m talking about here. For the most part, I think that recent campaigns to link sin (addiction, homosexuality, gender confusion, etc.) to genetic causes are attempts to rationalize, normalize and excuse destructive behavior. Alot of deviant behavior today is chosen behavior, not a result of genetic anomalies.

“Transsexual don’t decide as a passing thought, “Wouldn’t be fun to be a woman?”
—I never thought that.

“They struggle all their lives with the fact that they are essentially different than the other people that anatomically look like them. People with dicks.”
—I can imagine it would be a struggle.

They’re not good at sports, they don’t fit in with crowds of men. They have no innate interest in the things that men do, I could go on almost endlessly. However, put them in a room full of women and they fit right in. They excel. Why? Because they are amongst their own.”
—They choose that. But the truth is they aren’t women.

“Are they pussies or wimps — YES!, but only because they’ve got a swinging dick.”
—It’s wrong to call them names.

“Who they are on the inside is not who they are on the outside. Anatomical women are not pussies and wimps. Why? Because their bodies are inline with who their soul is on the inside.

Transsexuals spend years trying to hide, run from, and suppress the fact that they are not like all the other guys. They try harder. They compete harder, they join the military, they get tattoos, they fight. Not because they like those things, but because they are trying to convince themselves and others that they are just the same, when deep inside they know they are not.”
—They need help.

“And after years of failing to fit in many turn to suicide. The braver ones, that openly express who they are inwardly, are often killed by those that are freaked out by them. Would you kill an 9-legged baby — one of God’s mistakes or would you fix her through science and medicine?”
—Yes, they need help.

“Shit happens it’s a fallen world people are born all the time with defects. It’s not mental. Drugs, counseling, repentance, and hanging out with the guys more often does not fix it. I should know. I’m 44 years old. I still got my swinging dick and my tattoos, but inwardly I’m not like the rest of you. I’ve understood since I was 3 years old.

I’m a christian too. A very conservative one too, but I can’t change the fact of who I am. Repentance didn’t fix me.”
—Repentance is admitting you are a sinner (like me, like everyone). Did you ask Jesus Christ to save you? This is the most important question. Are you truly one in His body?

“I would still rather be in the kitchen with the women.

Its where I fit in. Trying living in two worlds for 44 years sometime. Its not easy.”
—That is your personal challenge in this world. For the most part, everyone has their personal demons to deal with. We have the proverbial “thorn in the side” in some form or another. Please don’t give up the fight and succumb.

“Anyhow I’m out. Call me a pussy to my face and I’ll kick your a$$.”
—I appreciate your honesty and being up front. But I’m not going to call you any name or think badly of you, so you don’t need to threaten me.

“Give me shit in this forum or any other forum and I will hunt you down in your little world and beat you.”
—Ditto. I’m not going to give you a hard time, and ask you not to give me one. I would much rather continue the good discussion we’ve been having.


34 posted on 08/02/2008 9:55:16 AM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: Bear_Slayer

I want to add...

I can’t know exactly how you feel, considering I don’t have the same challenge as you. But I have faced huge challenges, and still do.

Do you mind if I pray for your godly guidance, wisdom, strength and confort?


35 posted on 08/02/2008 10:13:46 AM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: ViLaLuz
Let me add this, too. The creator made us man or woman...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

Intersexuality is the state of a living thing of a gonochoristic species whose sex chromosomes, genitalia, and/or secondary sex characteristics are determined to be neither exclusively male nor female. An organism with intersex may have biological characteristics of both the male and female sexes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome

Klinefelter's syndrome, 47,XXY or XXY syndrome is a condition caused by a chromosome aneuploidy. Affected individuals have at least two X chromosomes and at least one Y chromosomes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome

Androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS), also referred to as androgen resistance syndrome, is a set of disorders of sexual differentiation caused by mutations of the gene encoding the androgen receptor... A person with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) has a female external appearance despite a 46XY karyotype and undescended testes, a condition termed "testicular feminization" in the past.

36 posted on 08/02/2008 10:26:34 AM PDT by Screaming_Gerbil (How do you know that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a muzzle flash?)
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To: ViLaLuz
But that still doesn’t negate the fact that people are born either XX or XY, aside from rare exceptions otherwise.

These are some of the most common physical / biological examples. With known examples like these, I think it's possible that some people can have brains that are wired for the opposite gender, or are not completely wired male/female. We just can't confirm what's is in really in someone's mind yet (maybe a good thing considering possible government misuse). But it doesn't make these people liars, or mean that they should just shut up and suffer in silence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

Intersexuality is the state of a living thing of a gonochoristic species whose sex chromosomes, genitalia, and/or secondary sex characteristics are determined to be neither exclusively male nor female. An organism with intersex may have biological characteristics of both the male and female sexes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome

Klinefelter's syndrome, 47,XXY or XXY syndrome is a condition caused by a chromosome aneuploidy. Affected individuals have at least two X chromosomes and at least one Y chromosomes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome

Androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS), also referred to as androgen resistance syndrome, is a set of disorders of sexual differentiation caused by mutations of the gene encoding the androgen receptor... A person with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) has a female external appearance despite a 46XY karyotype and undescended testes, a condition termed "testicular feminization" in the past.

37 posted on 08/02/2008 10:35:54 AM PDT by Screaming_Gerbil (How do you know that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a muzzle flash?)
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To: Joya

marking this thread


38 posted on 08/02/2008 10:37:37 AM PDT by Joya (I no longer stuff my face, instead, I face my stuff!)
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To: Screaming_Gerbil

“These are some of the most common physical / biological examples. With known examples like these, I think it’s possible that some people can have brains that are wired for the opposite gender, or are not completely wired male/female. We just can’t confirm what’s is in really in someone’s mind yet (maybe a good thing considering possible government misuse). But it doesn’t make these people liars, or mean that they should just shut up and suffer in silence.”

You posted good examples of the chromosomal anomalies, which are genuine physical conditions outside the norm people have to deal with. I mention those in my earlier posts.

These are rare conditions that are separate from the campaign to redefine gender as something subjective that can be chosen by mentally ill or spiritually confused people living in delusion.

It’s wrong to tell people with serious problems that they can’t help themselves because they were born that way if it’s not true. That’s not loving.

I don’t believe anyone facing these issues should shut up and suffer in silence. They need help and support in truth and love.


39 posted on 08/02/2008 12:36:57 PM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: ViLaLuz
Several things come to mind as I read your replies.

You still think that chromosome determine the innate (not carnate) nature of a person's soul even though you repeatedly admit that it is God that puts the soul of a person into that person.

All that DNA and chromosomes can do is determine who you are anatomically. It has no bearing on who you are as a person. Consider all the things that YOU ViLaLuz like and dislike. Consider all the innate (not carnate) characteristics of who you are. Personality, etc. You mean to tell me that your chromosomes determined who you are? The very unique ViLaLuz is no more different than the next person, because you have the same chromosonal makeup as the next person?

If you are determined by your chromosomes and by extension your DNA, then who you are as a person could be flawed and could need fixing -- no?

Who are you? Consider how unique you are -- and you say that you're nothing more than an XY chromosome. Those two characteristics determined that you love pizza and hate sushi. That you are good at mechanics but suck at sewing. That when you are standing in the kitchen with your wife and her friends you feel like an alien, an outsider, but in the company of other men you're at home.

Again I ask, who are you? Are you nothing more than conditioned responses to the world you live in because you were born with a penis? Are you fluid and changeable to your surroundings? Your chromosomes don't determine who you are in your soul. God does and yet it is still a fallen world. You may have been born with a penis because you were born with an XY chomosome, but are you who you really are because of the anatomical thing between your legs.

Anyhow, I hope you see my point.

It is a fallen world and people are born with defects all the time. We fix them when we can.

Trust me its not mental. Hanging out with the guys more often doesn't fix it. In fact it worsens the problem. It exacerbates it. It provides a sharp contrast between who guys innately are and who a trannsexual is. They are forced to pretend that they are one of the guys.

Part of my crankiness in this morning's response was that I was up late providing security for a Rock Concert. Afterwards I had to stand around with the guys and drink beers and smoke cigars as we BSed about cars, jobs, wives etc -- all the things that guys innately do, and all the while I'm reminded that "I don't fit in."

And I haven't fit in since I first understood at age 3.

It doesn't go away. You cant repent it away.

What if at some point someone convinced you that who you are (ViLaLuz) was a sin and needed to be repented of. Could you do it. Would God accept your repentance? Would he make you someone else.

Who one is, is not a mental choice, "Oh I wish I were a woman."

One realizes "I'm different. I don't fit in with the guys. I get along with women better." etc. Anyhow, I'm done.

YOu can pray for me all you want. I will likewise pray for you, and for the church, that you might understand the issue more accurately and judge with righteous judgment.

40 posted on 08/02/2008 3:17:38 PM PDT by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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To: LAforme2008
Gene Variant - he was one of the rock'n'roll pioneers.
41 posted on 08/02/2008 3:20:31 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Are you ready to pray for Teddy?)
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To: Bear_Slayer

We just simply disagree.

I think that genetics is part of the scheme God uses to create people. Chromosomes are only part of the picture, but an important part. God created humans as men and women. Equally important are the mental and spiritual pallette. We are all unique creatures made in the image of God.

If a man has feelings that he is really a woman, he’s mistaken. That’s not to say that that men sometimes wish they could be women, or like things that are traditionally feminine. If a man likes to hang around with women and feels more comfortable with them, what’s the harm? If someone doesn’t like it, that’s their problem, not yours. On judgement day, only God will know what’s really in your heart.

People can’t help how they feel a lot of the time, but they can choose not to take actions that hurt themselves or others. Having mutilating surgery destroys any chance of going back to the original God-given state if he ever comes to terms with his sex down the road.

It’s just that I know several guys who had themselves mutilated and now regret it. It’s ruined their lives. It’s ruined the lives of the people who love them. At the time they believed the lies and now they and their families are paying.

I’ve felt at times I wanted to kill people, or steal, or other terrible things—so badly I could actually see the visual of me committing the crimes in my mind. This is from the pit of Hell. I know this is against what God wants, so I choose not to do it. Sometimes I fail, but I repent and Jesus has saved me. The feelings don’t go away—I am constantly tempted, but now I’m never alone, and I know where I’m spending eternity.

It’s OK about being touchy this morning. You know, you really came across very masculine. By the way, I’m a woman. And... I’ve always felt more comfortable with the guys and was a tomboy. I chose a traditionally masculine profession. Many times people have assumed I’m a lesbian, but I’m not. I like my woman friends, but their interests bore me to tears. I’m told a lot that I think like a man.

You said you repented. Is Jesus your Savior? Have you asked Him to help you with your burden, and show you His truth?

You know, there are some people that have really touched me on Free Republic—like you. I think about them often and pray for them, even though I don’t really know them. I wonder how they are doing.

Also, thanks for the prayers. Really, I need all I can get!


42 posted on 08/02/2008 6:04:38 PM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: LAforme2008; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

43 posted on 08/04/2008 6:35:36 PM PDT by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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To: ViLaLuz; Bear_Slayer
VLL, I agree with you. There are true chromosomal abnormalities, and there are other cases where genetic expression is very clear but there is a mental or spiritual issue. If a baby is born with Down Syndrome, and undergoes eyelid surgery to alter facial characteristics in order not to appear to have Down's, it does not change the genetic fact of an extra chromosome. The same with a genetic male or female. Using surgical or chemical means to 'change' sex does not alter the XY or XX chromosomes people are born with.

Lots of people feel out of place doing the stereotypical pastimes associated with their gender. That doesn't mean you have to start cutting off body parts. Many men prefer cooking to getting loaded with the guys and hooting at steroid cases on sports fields. I am a woman, and I loathe vapid talk about nail polish and hairstyles. I have also been told I 'think like a man' and have occasionally been mistaken for one on this forum.

I feel for those who are in devastating states of confusion. We all have our crosses to bear.

Bear Slayer, peace. I don't agree with equating a 9-legged baby with gender identity issues. Clearly, a baby human is not supposed to have more than two legs. That is not the same as altering normal, functioning body parts that match genetic sex expression. I have not seen transsexualism scientifically 'proven' to be a physiological abnormality. And to complicate things, there are factions who believe masculinity and femininity are merely social constructs and that there are no differences in how men and women think and feel except those oir culture imposes. These are the people who want more girls in math and science and rough sports, whether they want to be there or not. It really is very complicated, with numerous opposing and mutually exclusive viewpoints.

44 posted on 08/04/2008 11:28:11 PM PDT by informavoracious (Drill Here, Drill Now!)
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To: informavoracious
Right, you agree with VLL.

Having a true YX chromosome gives you a penis, and a hairy body, and larger muscle capacity, and

The capacity to think like a woman

to enjoy cooking

TO have interest in women's fashions

to have interests in women's activities.

&etc almost endlessly.

You mean to tell me that those XY or XX cromosomes determine the innate characteristics that typically separate the male and female species?

I was born anatomically male, but there is something drastically different about me than other males.

I can't change me no more than you can change who you are.

Something happened when I was being developed in my mother's womb. I first understood and the age of 3 (I won't go into the details) I didn't make me happened and I tried very hard through life to change me. I can't change my sould, my nature. In fact, all it does is suppress an make me frustrated and at times angry.

Trying going through life denying and supressing self expression.

45 posted on 08/05/2008 6:44:46 AM PDT by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty.)
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