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Gun Control Group Sparks Debate at Pro-Gun Student Convention
CNSNews.com ^ | August 04, 2008 | Penny Starr

Posted on 08/04/2008 2:57:49 AM PDT by Man50D

The first convention of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC) featured at least one speaker who said college students bearing arms on campus would not make anyone safer.

Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign, a gun control advocacy group, said studies show that college students are more likely to engage in risky behavior than the general population.

“When I look back on my college days, maybe it was a different era in the late ‘60s, but most of my fraternity brothers didn’t have criminal records – not yet, most of them, even those who were in ROTC and hunters – (but) the behaviors they exhibited weren’t the kind of behaviors that gave me confidence that packing guns in their lockers or in their rooms would make me safer,” Helmke said.

Helmke and other panelists and attendees who support strict gun control laws were clearly in the minority at last Friday’s event at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.

“Allowing handguns does provide extra protection and extra deterrent against crime,” Jeremy Schwab, a graduate student at the University of Texas Dallas, told CNSNews.com. “It’s not a one-stop solution but provides a deterrent, and I feel very comfortable with people who have fulfilled their requirement to be able to carry.”

Many other attendees spoke out about the Constitution’s Second Amendment during question-and-answer sessions following statements by several panelists.

Michael Guzman, president of SCCC, opened the conference by saying the group was formed on April 17, 2007 – one day after 32 people died at Virginia Tech, following a rampage by a student who roamed campus and randomly shot students and faculty.

Yet it was not fear, Guzman said, but the right to bear arms that inspired the formation of SCCC.

“The media likes to paint us as paranoid about mass shootings on campus,” Guzman said, adding that his group is the first to admit these kinds of events are rare.

“What we are more concerned about are the types of crimes that happen on a daily basis on our campuses across the country. These crimes are rape, assault, robberies … these are things we should be able to protect ourselves against,” he said.

One of several speakers at the event, however, argued that the designation of gun-free zones on college campuses, including Virginia Tech, can inadvertently lead to these kinds of tragedies.

“Rather than creating safe zones for victims, we may unintentionally be creating safe zones for criminals who are doing the attacks and who have less to worry about,” John Lott, senior research scientist at the University of Maryland said, adding that only law abiding citizens respect the kinds of restrictions that campuses like Virginia Tech have placed on students.

Lott also cited statistics that show individuals with permits to carry concealed guns not only are rarely involved in criminal activities, but in some cases have helped end a deadly rampage, such as the Colorado Springs, Colo., church shooting last year where a church security guard with a gun permit stopped the shooter.

Helmke, however, argued that “many of us do things we shouldn’t do,” including those who are licensed to carry guns. He recounted a recent domestic dispute between two married police officers who had guns in the home.

“They got in a fight, and she was dead,” Helmke said.

Allison Gross, an intern with the Brady Campaign, told CNSNews.com that she was against students having guns on campus.

“I think it’s absolutely ludicrous, and there’s no need for it,” Gross said. “I don’t think you can make the argument that if you had a gun on campus you could have stopped the Virginia Tech (rampage). I think it would make it worse.

“If anyone brought a gun to class, I’d be scared out of my mind, regardless if they are trying to stop someone who is shooting someone or not,” she said.

The Brady Campaign was founded after the attempted assassination of President Ronald Reagan and named after his former press secretary, Jim Brady, who was shot in the head and permanently disabled.

The event drew students from across the country, and each participant received a “goody bag” that included a SCCC bumper sticker, a brochure listing quotes from the Founding Fathers of the United States on gun rights, and a book titled, “FIRE’s Guide to Free Speech on Campus.”


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; brady; bradycampaign; bradywatch; cho; gunfreezone; guns; johnlott; paulhelmke; sccc; secondamendment; shallnotbeinfringed; vatech

1 posted on 08/04/2008 2:57:49 AM PDT by Man50D
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To: Man50D
“I think it’s absolutely ludicrous, and there’s no need for it,” Gross said. “I don’t think you can make the argument that if you had a gun on campus you could have stopped the Virginia Tech (rampage). I think it would make it worse.

She may mean well but back in the day, someone who argued a line of "reasoning" like this would be called a fool. I think it's the responsibility of everyone around her to ridicule her for openly stating such a demonstrably false idea as if it had some basis in fact.

2 posted on 08/04/2008 3:06:23 AM PDT by tcostell (MOLON LABE - http://freenj.blogspot.com - RadioFree NJ)
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To: Man50D
Allison Gross, an intern with the Brady Campaign, told CNSNews.com that she was against students having guns on campus.

“I think it’s absolutely ludicrous, and there’s no need for it,” Gross said. “I don’t think you can make the argument that if you had a gun on campus you could have stopped the Virginia Tech (rampage). I think it would make it worse.

“If anyone brought a gun to class, I’d be scared out of my mind, regardless if they are trying to stop someone who is shooting someone or not,” she said.

And I think that you are a moonbat, Allison...

3 posted on 08/04/2008 3:11:32 AM PDT by LRS (NO DRILLING; NO PEACE!)
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To: tcostell
Little Allison needs to spend less time attending student conventions, and more time seeking professional help. She obviously has a mental problem: “If anyone brought a gun to class, I’d be scared out of my mind, regardless if they are trying to stop someone who is shooting someone or not,”
4 posted on 08/04/2008 3:23:59 AM PDT by LRS (NO DRILLING; NO PEACE!)
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To: LRS

You can’t argue in the realm of reason with some one who has such irrational fears.


5 posted on 08/04/2008 3:48:25 AM PDT by Jagdgewehr (Beware the coming of the Pax Obama!)
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To: tcostell

“I don’t think you can make the argument that if you had a gun on campus you could have stopped the Virginia Tech (rampage).”

Actually, my little volunteer victim, there is no doubt in my mind that I could have and would have stopped at least some of the VT murders.


6 posted on 08/04/2008 4:16:44 AM PDT by T-Bro (Hey, dems... tax this!)
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To: Man50D

“When I look back on my college days, maybe it was a different era in the late ‘60s, but most of my fraternity brothers didn’t have criminal records – not yet, most of them, even those who were in ROTC and hunters – (but) the behaviors they exhibited weren’t the kind of behaviors that gave me confidence that packing guns in their lockers or in their rooms would make me safer,” Helmke said.

However, I notice this dillweed from the late 60’s still SURVIVED his college experience!


7 posted on 08/04/2008 4:17:48 AM PDT by GWMcClintock (The last thing the US needs is B.O.!)
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To: Man50D
Let's give these kids credit, they allowed a person from the opposing to make her statements without harassment or censoring.

Any bets on whether the gun grabbers would allow the same?

8 posted on 08/04/2008 4:26:17 AM PDT by Jonah Hex ("Never underestimate the hungover side of the Force.")
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To: Man50D

“If anyone brought a gun to class, I’d be scared out of my mind, regardless if they are trying to stop someone who is shooting someone or not,” she said.

Why would she be scared if someone was trying to stop someone who is shooting at her? must be blond.


9 posted on 08/04/2008 4:32:11 AM PDT by bikerman (_ _ . /_ _ _ /_ . . / / . . . . / . / . _ . . / . _ _ . / / . . _ / . . . //)
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To: LRS
“And I think that you are a moonbat, Allison...”

The Brady Campaign, and hence Allison, is looking for a new strategy of invigorating their base (contributions) as it has suffered several significant defeats over the past several years. Most Americans now understand that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right. CHL legislation has become the law in nearly every state, handgun ownership has increased among women. The list goes on with setbacks for these elitist socialists - who by the way are not really anti-gun. They are just anti-gun when it comes to the great unwashed owning and possessing them. The list is long of these people owning guns or paying surrogates to carry in their behalf...

10 posted on 08/04/2008 4:32:11 AM PDT by snoringbear ('Just so to get the terminology correct; it goes like this; the federal government is the Pimp, the)
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To: Man50D

While it possible Paul Helmke doesn’t know the literature well enough to have read Dr. Lott’s work, I doubt it.

So, either Helmke has no one at his mental ‘helm’ or he is deliberately lying because he is hired to argue a position.

Hmmmn, could he be a lawyer?


11 posted on 08/04/2008 4:37:50 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: T-Bro
“I don’t think you can make the argument that if you had a gun on campus you could have stopped the Virginia Tech (rampage).”

Maybe it wouldn't have saved ALL the victims, but what about the liberal mantra, "If it saves just one life"????

12 posted on 08/04/2008 5:35:49 AM PDT by NRA1995 (It should be called "Cosa Nostra", not "Congress")
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To: GladesGuru
“So, either Helmke has no one at his mental ‘helm’ or he is deliberately lying because he is hired to argue a position.”


It is called “cognitive dissonance”. It is extremely hard for adults to change their world view. It is even more difficult if you have invested a significant portion of your adult life to promote and extend that particular world view.

The vast majority of people will do all they can, twist logic into pretzels, find any shred of evidence to oppose mountains of data, ignore huge portions of reality, to avoid having to change long held beliefs that they have based their life on.

It can happen. People can have a “road to Damascus” moment; but it usually involves an extremely traumatic, life threatening event that they cannot ignore.

Most simply resort to cognitive dissonance, where they ignore the reality that disproves their world view.

13 posted on 08/04/2008 5:57:28 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: Man50D
I am always amazed at the foolish notions the antis base their position on.

Most states laws would require the college student to be at least 21 (23 in MO), demonstrate proficiency in shooting, legal knowledge, lethal force and concealed carry, so all of the fears these hoplophobes emit is really a smoke-screen.

Also, as a CCW isntructor myself, I have told several young (and a few not so young) folks that they did not demonstrate the maturity I expect a CCW licensee to possess and promptly refunded their fees and professionally declined to certify them for the sheriff... Those toting CCWs on campuses will likely be veterans returning to school, professionals taking upper level courses, older students in general, yes, even some instructors/professors; not the fool-hardy “sophomoric” 17-19 year olds running rampant for the first time away from home.

Get real folks!

God Bless & Molon Labe

14 posted on 08/04/2008 6:33:37 AM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret) "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: LRS

Little Allison needs to spend less time attending student conventions, and more time seeking professional help. She obviously has a mental problem: “If anyone brought a gun to class, I’d be scared out of my mind, regardless if they are trying to stop someone who is shooting someone or not,”


Actually, somebody needs to point out to her that wherever she goes in public there’s most probably somebody there who’s carrying. Do you suppose she’d be just as scared going to the mall from now only? Silly twit.


15 posted on 08/04/2008 6:38:43 AM PDT by pyrless (I carry a gun, 'cause a cop is too heavy)
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To: Man50D

I keep seeing the gun control crowd put up “what if’s” about it being too dangerous to allow guns on campus. Why aren’t the proponents countering with the “so there” that Utah hasn’t experienced a single gun incident on their campuses?

I read recently that Utah passed a law about 3 years ago requiring campuses to allow concealed carry by permit holders. Real life trumps maybe every time.


16 posted on 08/04/2008 6:48:55 AM PDT by pyrless (I carry a gun, 'cause a cop is too heavy)
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To: Man50D
"...said studies show that college students are more likely to engage in risky behavior than the general population."

Here's the pro-Gun Control argument: "You're irresponsible".

One problem with this argument is that it proves too much. If college students are irresponsible, why should they be allowed to have credit cards, drive cars, make contracts, decide their own majors, use power equipment, own knives, axes or baseball bats, or make any other important decisions?

Some how, I don't think this argument is going to go over well with college students. Oh, we have kids the age of college students fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, driving tanks and using other dangerous equipment. This reminds me of the idiocy of the algore campaign in Florida, their argument was "our voters are too stupid to know how to vote". Didn't work out there either.

17 posted on 08/04/2008 7:28:44 AM PDT by Jabba the Nutt (We're screwed '09 -'12)
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To: pyrless
Gun Owner or Victim
18 posted on 08/04/2008 8:00:39 AM PDT by pyrless (I carry a gun, 'cause a cop is too heavy)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

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