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Ivins colleague rejects therapistís description (Anthrax)
Frederick News Post ^ | August 4, 2008 | Marge Neal

Posted on 08/04/2008 11:35:24 AM PDT by Shermy

While counselor Jean Duley said the late Bruce E. Ivins expressed homicidal intentions, threatened her and said he "would go out in a blaze of glory" in the face of a pending FBI indictment, as least one former colleague believes the Fort Detrick scientist is being used as a scapegoat in the high profile anthrax poisoning case that paralyzed the nation -- again -- shortly after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Arthur O. Anderson, a medical doctor and scientist at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Disease at Fort Detrick, said Duley's description of Ivins doesn't match his impressions of a man with whom he worked for many years.

Ivins, who was about to be indicted by the FBI in the anthrax mailings that killed five people and injured 17 others, was described by Anderson as a hard-working individual with a high level of integrity and pride in both his workplace and his individual work.

The only perceived weakness that Anderson could discern, and not all people would consider it a weakness, he said, was that Ivins "had relatively thin skin."

"His personality style was such that he was sensitive to public opinion," Anderson said Sunday. "There are individuals in our community whose lives are centered around protesting government programs. They're not necessarily interested in facts, but pushing an agenda."

Ivins would take it personally when seemingly unfounded criticism was aimed at something he believed in, Anderson said.

"He was concerned with how the Institute was perceived and how he was perceived," Anderson said. "That manifested itself in the care he took in conducting his research."

As a health care professional and bioethicist -- he heads USAMRIID's Office of Human Use and Ethics -- Anderson said he takes issue with what he views as Duley's professional betrayal of Ivins.

"I can tell you very clearly that the minute a conflict of interest occurs in the caregiver-client relationship É she has to withdraw as the caregiver," he said. "She can't ethically continue to gather information or share information -- betray that trust -- without disclosing to her client that she is sharing what he believes is confidential, privileged information."

Anderson said that if he was to betray a patient's trust in such a manner, he would be subject to medical disciplinary procedures.

In commenting about remarks made by Duley when she applied to the District Court of Maryland for a Peace Order, Anderson said he was amazed that a judge would allow hearsay to be entered on the record.

Duley referred to comments allegedly made by Ivins' psychiatrist about Ivins' homicidal and sociopathic tendencies, without confirmation to the court that the doctor actually made the comments.

"The remaining allegations about murderous ideas and plans sound so foreign to me that in the absence of contemporaneously documented evidence I would have to consider them items of Ms. Duley's vivid imagination or information fed to her by the people she communicated with outside the therapeutic environment," Anderson wrote in an e-mail to the News-Post. "It is not at all surprising to me that a patient whose therapist is serving as a double agent 'therapist' and 'accuser' would become very angry with the therapist and might make some rather dramatic expressions of that anger."

The doctor and scientist paused briefly after being asked if he believes Ivins committed suicide.

"Oh, yeah," he said. "I think all of the circumstances put him in a place where he felt he had no place to go."

Anderson said he became aware in June that the FBI had taken items out of Ivins' lab.

"The FBI took all of the stored things in his lab freezer," Anderson said. "They basically destroyed his life's work. I think that's what upset him the most."

Anderson said it is "highly incomprehensible" to him that Ivins would be regarded as the perpetrator in this case simply because he had access to anthrax.

He said he last saw Ivins around July 6. Ivins told him the FBI was stalking him, following him everywhere, Anderson said.

"He was animated and appropriately concerned, but certainly not out of control."

Anderson does not believe Ivins is responsible for the 2001 anthrax deaths.

"Now that he can't defend himself against the allegations, this will play out the way it will play out," he said.

But he firmly believes it wasn't guilt that killed his colleague and friend.

"I think it was the sense of betrayal and complete abandonment by those around him," Anderson said. "He cared so much and had so much pride in the work he did -- I don't think he could handle that sense of abandonment."

TOPICS: Anthrax Scare; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anthrax; antraz; bruceivins; ivins
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To: Scotswife

And yet - when you read Tom’s opinions, one could get the impression
Tom was the one with the superiority complex.

I do concede that’s a possibility given the info in post #22.

Please note that I’m at the least an “agnostic” about the likelihood
that Bruce Ivins was the producer behind “Amerithrax”.
Given what’s happened since may never be solved.

I’m not raggin’ on the FBI. Even if the FBI personnel didn’t act
in the fine tradition of Sherlock Holmes.
This was probably a very complex and difficult case to crack.
And to endure the embarassement of a $5.8 Million settlement
to a “person of interest” and his legal counsel.

81 posted on 08/04/2008 3:49:21 PM PDT by VOA
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I’m not convinced either way, and we are left with 2 possibilities.
He either committed suicide because he is guilty -or he committed suicide because the FBI drove him to a point of despair.

I am finding the 2nd possibility to be unthinkable given the FBI’s major screw-ups in the past.

82 posted on 08/04/2008 4:04:46 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Shermy

you must have good information that surrounds the test results — I don’t believe they have much of either.

And, the anthrax samples gleaned from the envelopes would have been contaminated and aged. Anthrax dna breaks down over a period of time. (4)years later..

83 posted on 08/04/2008 4:05:47 PM PDT by PaRepub07
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To: Scotswife

pardon me for buttin in but that whole connected mail system would have become contaminated. Who knows how far the contaminated mail reached.

84 posted on 08/04/2008 4:09:24 PM PDT by PaRepub07
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To: PaRepub07

Information? What I got is experience in watching these claims fronted to the media, then they eventually turn out to be less than advertised, or non-existent. A la the Hatfill case, which seems to be playing out here again.

It is a fascinating story. I hope it was Ivins so they can close the case. The government has been steadfast on the Ft. Detrick angle from early, haven’t wavered on that one.

85 posted on 08/04/2008 4:17:09 PM PDT by Shermy (I'm very proud of America giving me this opportunity. It's a sign of enormous growth in this country)
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To: Shermy

That is the profilers angle, they just can’t be wrong (sarc)

and B. Hatch Rosenberg, pushing this.

86 posted on 08/04/2008 4:19:55 PM PDT by PaRepub07
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To: PaRepub07

I’m not any kind of expert on that.
If you have more details/opinions would like to hear them though.
That’s what forums are for.

87 posted on 08/04/2008 4:20:53 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Shermy
came to two of their regular Wednesday meetings asking lots of questions....Did they know of a school or cemetery named Greendale?

There is a Greendale neighborhood or suburb in Cincinnati, about twenty miles from Lebanon.

There is also a Greendale in Hocking County, Ohio -- one hundred or so miles east of Lebanon.

A connection between Lebanon and Greendale is not out of the question.

88 posted on 08/04/2008 4:53:58 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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To: okie01; TrebleRebel; muawiyah

I think the AP story has been adjusted:

“The mailbox just off the campus of Princeton University where the letters were mailed sits about 100 yards away from where the college’s Kappa Kappa Gamma chapter stores its rush materials, initiation robes and other property. Sorority members do not live there, and the Kappa chapter at Princeton does not provide a house for the women.”;_ylt=ArmmDSI9sjs5EjuJKMk786Gs0NUE

Weak. What is it, a public storage?

89 posted on 08/04/2008 5:09:14 PM PDT by Shermy (I'm very proud of America giving me this opportunity. It's a sign of enormous growth in this country)
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To: Shermy

Anthrax case bump for later...........

90 posted on 08/04/2008 5:21:04 PM PDT by indthkr
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To: okie01

This case sure brings up a lot of weird connections.

There was a Greendale in Zimbabwe where Hatfill had lived. Little noted, Greendale there is next to a place called “Hatfield.”

91 posted on 08/04/2008 5:23:12 PM PDT by Shermy (OOOOOOObama, where the waffles come sweeping off the plains)
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To: Dick Vomer; All

I guess you’re all aware that the libs are saying that Cheney and Bush orchestrated the anthrax poisonings to support the invasion of Iraq. They are even accusing Cheney of ordering Ivins’ murder. Unbelievable.

92 posted on 08/04/2008 5:49:42 PM PDT by pollyg107
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To: Scotswife; jpl

You are right - that brother sounds absolutely weird! And the way that in other interviews he boasted that he “sang like a canary”, whereas in this interview he says that he stood up well to FBI questioning, is more than slightly loopy.

That bit about he is not sorry his brother is dead is chilling. Like hearing Cain interviewed about Able.

93 posted on 08/04/2008 6:07:24 PM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: Shermy
...if what this lady is saying is true, that he supposedly discussed his homicidal intentions in front of a group of people...

A health professional has a responsibility to act if a patient talks about homicidal intentions. Did she report it? Where are her notes?

I don't believe a word of it. The FBI has shown itself to be totally corrupt. They allowed three men to be sentenced to life in prison all the while feeding information to Mafia murderers and protecting them. They're corrupt.

94 posted on 08/04/2008 6:07:32 PM PDT by ladyjane
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To: Shermy
You got me laughing on that one. Wonder who the FBI guys "interviewed" there on campus? Maybe just invited some of the girls on campus to come up and feel their guns or something?

Are we just biased or is the FBI story simply falling apart?

95 posted on 08/04/2008 6:27:19 PM PDT by muawiyah (We need a "Gastank For America" to win back Congress)
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To: muawiyah

“Are we just biased or is the FBI story simply falling apart?”

It is like they are trying to create one quickly, and someone is talking to AP too early.

I thought they were going to say he stalked the sorority house, something like that, turns out there is no house.

They may have a case against Ivins, but this leaking and shifting isn’t helping them.

96 posted on 08/04/2008 6:42:57 PM PDT by Shermy (OOOOOOObama, where the waffles come sweeping off the plains)
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To: Shermy
As a matter of interest the current theory used to target Dr. Ivins is the product of a storyline developed by Paul de Armond of the Public Good Project (SEE: )

I have the feeling this particular organization has a George Soros link but couldn't quite pin it down. The ZULU NATION website lists just about all of Soros' hired activist groups, but it has a number of others without such a link.

I found the piece about Paul's theory in a link to the Albion Monitor. Their feature writers (they claim) have included Molly Ivins.

There's a lot more going on here than anyone is letting on.

Given the ease of finding a direct link from Dr. Ivins to Molly Ivins, maybe Doc here is the far leftwingtard who helped out AlQaida.

If I were the FBI I' have Molly on the rack right now ~ but I'm not the FBI.

NOTE: Doc. Ivins may well have supplied the anthrax to terrorist circles who in turn worked with AlQaida on the "delivery technique". That's where the Atta's core group in Florida come in.

Which probably means everyone's questions about FBI's meaningless research into the anthrax attack were spot on. It was purposefully misdirected by the guys at the top. With the appointment of a new chief investigator at least part of the chain of custody has possibly been identified. Now to tie it into the leftwingers who actually arranged for the attack.

No wonder Dr. Ivins "committed suicide".

97 posted on 08/04/2008 7:07:52 PM PDT by muawiyah (We need a "Gastank For America" to win back Congress)
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To: BlackVeil

“Like hearing Cain interviewed about Able.”

yes - very disturbing comments from a man who’s just learned of his brother’s death.

98 posted on 08/04/2008 7:24:45 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Verginius Rufus
In just a few short searches I was able to link Bruce Ivins to Molly Ivins ~ check at post #21.

There may be a blood tie but I couldn't find it.

99 posted on 08/04/2008 8:04:13 PM PDT by muawiyah (We need a "Gastank For America" to win back Congress)
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To: Scotswife
if the brother had pointed to such things it would be understandable.

Would you air your family's dirty laundry in the media on the national level? I wouldn't.

Instead he strangely describes being stronger, being athletic, not crumbling under pressure like his weaker brother.

That "macho" attitude could come from the same type of family environment I described with my B-I-L, wherein he could have either resisted more than his brother or is ashamed of what happened and overcompensates. My B-I-L's son turned out to be a macho type who beats his wife. The human psyche is actually pretty predictable in these matters.

100 posted on 08/05/2008 5:53:23 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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