Skip to comments.Ivins colleague rejects therapistís description (Anthrax)
Posted on 08/04/2008 11:35:24 AM PDT by Shermy
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TrebleRebel just posted a really interesting link on the other thread to a blog with some info about Duley. She sounds to me like somebody who’s very subject to blackmail and pressure.
We’re supposed to think the FBI suddenly got its act together and found the right guy? If this guy was as unstable as they are saying he should not have had access. I seriously doubt he is the right guy.
Next thing you know you're going to tell me that they collude with the BATF to entrap innocent men belonging to politically incorrect groups, shoot their wives in the head, and kill their sons.
Or maybe you're going to tell me that they'd burn a couple of dozen children alive....... THEN after they burned those children, you're going to tell me that they used bulldozers to raze the crime scene so that nothing could be analyzed???
C'mon. Puheeze, this defies belief! The FBI doesn't do stuff like that.
Other stuff from Treble on other thread:
INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY
Think about how many innocent people have been publically accused by leaks and then convicted in the media to have their reutations and lives destroyed with no solid evidence.
This is not our grandfathers’ FBI.
In those days the FBI had an impeccable reputation.
Now they are just another government agency riddled with incompetent Affirmative Action and EEO hires and burdened with politically correct rules and management.
It has also been reported that the “C” stands for “Carol”.
After agreeing to the terms, fill in Jean Carol Duley for the name and search all records. You will find 7 cases for driving under the influence. The year of birth is correct for a 45 year old woman.
If this is indeed the same Jean C. Duley who set up Bruce Ivins, it goes a long way to explaining just why her specialty is counseling addicts, and why she might need a few favors from higher up to keep her driver's license! After all, Maryland has a “three strikes” law for drunk driving.
She was not a ‘therapist’. She was a social worker.
If Irvins was thinking about killing her why is she in hiding?
Monday Aug. 4, 2008 06:32 EDT
Additional key facts re: the anthrax investigation Its perfectly possible that Bruce Ivins really is the anthrax attacker that he perpetrated the attacks and did so alone. Perhaps the FBI is in possession of mountains of conclusive evidence that, once revealed, will leave no doubt that Ivins is the guilty party. But no rational person could possibly assume that to be the case given the paltry amount of facts many of which contradict one another that are now known. Several points to note: (1) [I omit here liberal micro obsession with bentonite and one story from ABC in 2001. The Salon guy should move on.]
(2) So much of the public reporting about Ivins has been devoted to depicting him as a highly unstable psychotic who had been issuing extremely violent threats and who had a violent past. But that depiction has been based almost exclusively on the uncorroborated claims of Jean Carol Duley, a social worker (not a psychiatrist or psychologist) who, as recently as last year, was apparently still in college at Hoods College in Frederick, Maryland. Duleys scrawled handwritten complaint against Ivins, seeking a Protective Order, has served as the basis for much of the reporting regarding Ivins mental state, yet it is hardly the model of a competent or authoritative professional. Quite the opposite.
Duley herself has a history that, at the very least, raises questions about her credibility. She has a rather lengthy involvement with the courts in Frederick, including two very recent convictions for driving under the influence one from 2007 and one from 2006 as well as a complaint filed against her for battery by her ex-husband. Here is Duleys record from the Maryland Judicial data base:
Just three months ago, Duley pled guilty and was sentenced to probation (and fined $1,000), as a result of having been stopped in December, while driving at 1:35 a.m., and charged with driving under the influence:
On April 21, 2006, Duley was also charged with driving a vehicle while impaired by alcohol, driving while impaired by drugs or alcohol, and reckless driving, and on October 13, 2006, she pled guilty to the charge of reckless driving and was fined $580. Back in 1992, Duley was criminally charged with battery against what appeared to be her now-ex-husband (and she filed a complaint against him as well). Later that same year, she was criminally charged with possession of drug paraphenalia with intent to use, charges which appear to have been ultimately dismissed.
Prior to the restraining order against Ivins which Duley obtained two weeks ago, Ivins had no criminal record at all, at least not in Frederick. A story in todays Frederick News-Post quotes Duleys fiancee as claiming: She had to quit her job and is now unable to work, and we have spent our savings on attorneys. But she doesnt appear to have used an attorney for her complaint against Ivins. If anything, her savings were likely depleted from attorneys fees, court costs, and fines and probation for her various criminal proceedings (Larisa Alexandrovna has more details on Duley).
None of this is to defend Ivins, nor is to suggest that this constitutes evidence that Duley is lying or is otherwise inaccurate in her claims. As I said, its perfectly possible that Ivins is guilty of being the anthrax attacker. I have no opinion on whether he is. The point is that nobody should have any opinion on that question one way or the other until they see the FBIs evidence.
What is certain is that Jean Carol Duley is hardly some upstanding, authoritative source on Bruce Ivins psychological state or his guilt, nor is she some accomplished and highly credible psychological professional, notwithstanding the fact that most media depictions of Ivins are based on uncritical recitations of her accusations. The fact that her depiction contradicts not only the claims of virtually everyone else who knew Ivins but also numerous facts about how Ivins was treated even by the FBI (see below), suggests that a large amount of skepticism is warranted.
(3) The initial report from The Los Angeles Times David Willman said that Ivins committed suicide just as the Justice Department was about to file criminal charges against him for the attacks. But an article from The New York Times Scott Shane this morning reported that the evidence against Ivins was largely circumstantial and that the grand jury in Washington was planning to hear several more weeks of testimony before issuing an indictment.
According to The Washington Post, Ivins enjoyed full-scale clearance at Fort Detrick as late as July 10 hardly what one would expect if the FBI were so certain that he was the anthrax attacker. And judging from an article in todays local Frederick newspaper, The Frederick-News Post Online, the FBI is still searching for evidence against Ivins, as they removed two computers from a public library there.
Members of Congress with some personal stake in this case and who have been attempting to assert some oversight on the FBIs investigation over the last six years Tom Daschle, Pat Leahy, Rush Holt have been uniformly critical of how it has been handled. Numerous experts continue to raise serious doubts about whether Ivins even had the ability to access and handle anthrax of the type that was sent to Daschle and Leahy. Maybe the FBIs evidence demonstrates that he could and did. Maybe it doesnt. But under all circumstances, its inconceivable that anyone would be content with having the FBI simply keep its alleged evidence to itself and not have a full public airing and accounting of what has happened here, an accounting that should include the news organizations led by ABC which are in possession of vital information that they continue to conceal.
That's for darn sure! Remember way back when Hatfill was the main suspect in the early days? They not only terminated all his contracts, they went out of their way to force L.S.U. to not hire him when they were about to give him a job. They made him unemployable!
Now we're supposed to believe that this guy was under intense scrutiny for at least a year, yet he was able to keep his job almost right up until his death? It stinks like a rotten fish.
The FBI can change.
Why, just a few days ago the fed a newspaper with the story that Ivins own brother didn’t like him. Did not contact other relatives.
Then some intrepid reporter elsewhere contacted the quoted brother and discovered the brothers hadn’t talked to each other for 23 years.
Now we don’t hear about the brother any more.
That the FBI nurse-fed the Los Angeles Times with the extremely weak brother story raised red flags to me.
i wish the guy hadn’t killed himself. If he was innocent and saw what happened to Hatfill its a tragedy. If he’s guilty then he should have faced justice.
I’d love to know what they offered her in order to publicly come forth with this “information”. Probably at a minimum a complete expunging of her criminal record, and God only knows what else.
“Id love to know what they offered her in order to publicly come forth with this information. “
If this poster is to beleived they seemed to be offering quite a lot................
I have been a close friend of Dr. Bruce Ivins for years. The FBI needed a scapegoat, especially after Stephen Hatfill, whose foot the FBI ran over, won a $5.2 M lawsuit against them.
The new FBI director needed a capture in this case. So, they took all of the Ft. Detrick anthrax researchers and put them under intense interrogation.
Bruce was a mild, meek and sensitive scientist. The FBI showed his clinically depressed daughter, who was institutionalized in a mental hospital, photos of the anthrax victims, and said “your father did this.” They offered his son $2.5 M and a sportscar if he would “rat” on his father.
Bruce could not stand stand up to the constant harrasment by the FBI. So we have lost a very talented researcher, so that the FBI can close the case...
Posted by:Dr. Gerry Higgins | August 04, 2008 at 07:02 AM
Maybe he didn’t kill himself...maybe this was a case of Arkancide.
Ivins died Tuesday at Frederick Memorial Hospital, an apparent suicide.
Duley, 45, filed for a peace order against him July 24 in Frederick County District Court, accusing him of stalking, threats and harassment. A temporary peace order was granted that day.
Duley's fiance of seven years, Mike McFadden, spoke to The Frederick News-Post on Saturday from their home in Williamsport and provided a statement on her behalf.
"Jean is currently at an undisclosed location," McFadden said.
Duley had numerous meetings with the FBI in the past month, McFadden said, but he declined to provide specific information about those meetings.
He said Ivins had threatened Duley's life.
Court documents state that Ivins had made "homicidal threats, actions, plans, threats and actions towards therapist."
Duley, a social worker, led counseling sessions attended by Ivins.
The story of Ivins' death and investigation by the FBI broke early Friday. Since then, McFadden said, Duley has been hounded by the national press.
Someone broke into her car Friday night, McFadden said, though no police report was filed. "Nothing was taken," he said, "but everything was jumbled up."
Duley told the court she had been subpoenaed to testify before a federal grand jury Friday. She was reluctant to become involved in the FBI's investigation of Ivins, McFadden said. "She had to quit her job and is now unable to work, and we have spent our savings on attorneys."
McFadden would not provide any specific information about Duley's involvement with Ivins or the investigation.
"Jean is the kind of person who believes her life is insignificant in comparison with the kind of damage Dr. Ivins is capable of," he said. "She sacrificed all this stuff because she wanted to do the right thing. She'll soon reveal what many wouldn't because they didn't want to be involved with it."
At the request of her attorney, Duley is unable to say anything, McFadden said. "She'd appreciate some semblance of privacy."
-snip- Maryland's chief medical examiner, Dr. David Fowler, confirmed Saturday that the cause of Ivins' death was found to be an overdose of acetaminophen, the active drug in Tylenol; and that it was ruled a suicide based on information from police and doctors, according to the AP.
Kimberly Thomas, a forensic examiner with the Maryland Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, would not comment Saturday on results from Ivins' autopsy or confirm Dr. Fowler's statement.
Despite the widespread publicity following Ivins' death, Keeney and Basford Funeral Home said Saturday that the family had made no changes to funeral arrangements announced Friday in his obituary. A memorial service is scheduled for 10 a.m. Saturday at St. John the Evangelist Roman Catholic Church in Frederick, followed by a reception at the church parish hall.
Ivins' wife Diane refused to comment today from the couple's home on Military Road in Frederick. Their two children posted messages to their father on their Facebook pages Wednesday. Daughter Amanda wrote, "forever my hero, forever in my heart, forever my daddy Ã rest in peace I will always love you!!" Son Andy wrote, "I will miss you Dad. I love you and I can't wait to see you in Heaven. Rest in peace. It's finally over." -snip -
2 bushes and a clinton. The last 3 guys to occupy the WH.
You paint a very depressing picture.
We’ll never know, because we can’t investigate the FBI, so we have to take their word for it.
We’ll never know why (or if) a guy who could kill half a dozen people with fancy anthrax, would take his own life with acetaminophen; a very slow, un-failproof and uphill way to die.
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