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Editorial: T. Boone's Windy Energy Plan
orange county register ^ | August 7, 2008 | staff

Posted on 08/07/2008 6:00:14 AM PDT by kellynla

What we like most about T. Boone Pickens' grand scheme for meeting America's insatiable energy appetite and reducing the reliance on unfriendly foreign sources of oil is his willingness that all alternatives should compete. Whether it's drilling for oil offshore, or processing natural gas shale from the heartland or capturing wind that blows from who-knows-where, Mr. Pickens is all for it.

"I'm for everything that's American," as the billionaire Texas oilman put it Tuesday when he met with the Register editorial board and news reporters.

What we like least about his grand scheme is that to pursue the parts of it he personally prefers, Mr. Pickens would rely on government's heavy hand. Without government subsidies, mandates and rights-of-way acquisitions, America's switch from reliance on foreign oil to natural gas and wind-generated power won't happen fast enough to suit him.

To promote electricity production from wind sources as a replacement for natural gas, Mr. Pickens wants government to mandate wind power, provide subsidies and exercise eminent domain powers to acquire land for transmission. That, in turn, would free natural gas to replace gasoline for large transport vehicles.

Despite claiming to prefer government not interfere in market decisions, Mr. Pickens is willing to take advantage when he can benefit from government's intrusion.

The insidiousness of government intrusion in the market is that it often benefits someone. But always at someone else's expense.

(Excerpt) Read more at ocregister.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 110th; boonepickens; congress; drillheredrillnow; energy; enviroprofiteering; tboonepickens; windfarms; windpower

1 posted on 08/07/2008 6:00:14 AM PDT by kellynla
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To: kellynla
Pickens pushing subsidies for his windy investments is not in keeping with my opinion of him.

We should do everything, a few pilot projects are fine, but not full production until it is proved. But first up, oil, coal and nuclear should be the focus with the oil shale taking a huge jump in investments ... DOI says there are 800 BILLION barrels of recoverable oil in the Green Hills Formation alone.

2 posted on 08/07/2008 6:12:59 AM PDT by Tarpon (Ignorance, the most expensive commodity produced by mankind.)
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To: kellynla
Read it again and again until you can quote it from memory...then, teach your kids.

"Government's involvement in market matters...[is]...wrong in at least two ways.

First, from a utilitarian approach, government's involvement is inefficient and inflexible. Whereas private parties are free to innovate, react quickly to changing circumstances and pursue the mutually profitable course, government meddling renders market decisions inflexible, arbitrary and perverts profit motives with gains through subsidies and losses from regulations that are completely unrelated to the transaction.

Second, from a moral standpoint, government's involvement is wrong. It seeks to pick winners and necessarily designates losers based on capricious standards coercively imposed on the unwilling as well as on the willing."

3 posted on 08/07/2008 6:15:07 AM PDT by VaBthang4 ("He Who Watches Over Israel Will Neither Slumber Nor Sleep")
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To: kellynla

i don’t know what they like it,

they give excellent reasons for disliking boone’s plan—intrusive government.


4 posted on 08/07/2008 6:17:29 AM PDT by ken21 (people die and you never hear from them again.)
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To: kellynla
Picken’s plan is basically good and certainly infinitely better than what the government is doing now. However, he relies too much on wind and solar. Wind generated electricity is best suited for Wyoming, Montana and those areas in the west. The problem is to get this energy to the West Coast where there is new demand will require huge investments in transmission facilities. Wind energy has an extremely low load factor which makes investment in large transmission systems uneconomic. Also wind production is greatest in the winter and at night when it does not meet the demands for air conditioning. Plus Democrats and environmentalists are opposed to building large, new transmission systems. Wind energy only works when it is used to supplement fossil fuels like oil and natural gas which can be turned on and off when there is enough wind to produce electricity. Few of the politicians or the Washington elites understand this.
5 posted on 08/07/2008 6:19:15 AM PDT by detective
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To: kellynla
Ah ... T Bone Pickens, General Electric, Congress, and windmills.

You make the dough, they'll spend it for you.

You can bet T Bone is going to get money from the the tax payers.


T Bone & GE

6 posted on 08/07/2008 6:21:49 AM PDT by G.Mason (Duty, Honor, Country)
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To: G.Mason

“If they don’t, Mr. Pickens said, he’ll just build his own private transmission line. “

it would make the idea more palatable for many people.


7 posted on 08/07/2008 6:24:37 AM PDT by ken21 (people die and you never hear from them again.)
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To: kellynla
Elsewhere on FR, someone has totally deconstructed the numbers. They are ludicrous. Besides a total cost of at least $800 BILLION for the U.S. (to produce 35% power---hypothetically), you would have to build dozens of new coal- and oil-fired plants to back up the wind grid everytime the wind stopped blowing! It would cost a TRILLION DOLLARS and you still would have to rely on oil!

Go here, and see the link in post 10:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2057858/posts

8 posted on 08/07/2008 6:27:16 AM PDT by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually." (Hendrix))
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To: ken21

Wind can help but it is no real answer. What if the wind stops? What about all the birds the windmills will kill? I have a bone to pick with the plan because its a government plan— This makes about as much since as using sailing ships once again to ship cargo or putting sails on our cars. We must use ALL of America’s resources: Nukes, Coal, Gas, Wind, and Oil.


9 posted on 08/07/2008 6:32:45 AM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: kellynla
T-Bone Pickin's boring monotone with its nasal twang seems to fill my radio's waves 24/7......and is beginning to nauseate me. This jerk certainly has an enormous ego to think that the lumpen masses are just dying to hear his spiel being forced on them for lo these many weeks. Will he EVER go away?

I'd rather watch and hear Billy Mays.

I finally had a gander at T-Bone on a TV ad. Why did I instantly think Jimmuh Cahter when I looked at him? 'Twas scary, very scary.

Leni

10 posted on 08/07/2008 6:36:18 AM PDT by MinuteGal (Stay Home in Nov & Vote for Obama-ization, More Regulation, Taxation, Litigation and Ginsburgization)
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To: kellynla
Drilling and coal are the touchstones. No green wacko will ever support them. No real American will turn them down, the point being to increase supply, lower prices, and reduce dependence on foreign sources in favor of domestic ones. Pickens pretending wind can solve anything is just a typical PR-driven straddle. It can't. It is a dodge. Face the issue - the left believes exhaling is evil and must be banned, with gas at $4 and GM and Ford bankrupt.
11 posted on 08/07/2008 6:36:26 AM PDT by JasonC
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To: ken21
Yeah ... right.

That's why T Bone just spent 50 million on the add he has running. He doesn't expect to make money on this deal.


Question: If it takes 20 years to recoup the cost of a wind turbine, and wind turbines have a life expectancy of 20 years am I going to use your money, or mine?

12 posted on 08/07/2008 6:37:41 AM PDT by G.Mason (Duty, Honor, Country)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

i’m not a physicist, but my understanding from high school physics is that the winds will not stop

because of the earth’s heating and cooling daily.

as for your major point, i agree we need a balanced approach.

i don’t like seeing wildlife killed either.


13 posted on 08/07/2008 6:38:22 AM PDT by ken21 (people die and you never hear from them again.)
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To: kellynla

Personally, I prefer Slim Pickens energy plan: nuclear.


14 posted on 08/07/2008 6:38:44 AM PDT by windsorknot
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To: G.Mason

lol!

po’ lean pickins be dead then.


15 posted on 08/07/2008 6:39:30 AM PDT by ken21 (people die and you never hear from them again.)
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To: kellynla

From the article: “Without government subsidies, mandates and rights-of-way acquisitions, America’s switch from reliance on foreign oil to natural gas and wind-generated power won’t happen fast enough to suit him.”

That would be as opposed to all other sources of electrical energy including nuclear, carbon based sources and other alternative sources which require the same government involvement.


16 posted on 08/07/2008 6:50:07 AM PDT by shove_it (and have a nice day)
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To: detective

Wind energy only works when it is used to supplement fossil fuels like oil and natural gas which can be turned on and off when there is enough wind to produce electricity.

This sentence expresses the exact opposite of what I thought was the consensus among power generation folks, which is, power generating facilities cannot be turned off and on willy nilly as the wind dictates.


17 posted on 08/07/2008 6:51:37 AM PDT by wita (truthspeaks@freerepublic.com)
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To: wita

...and therefor wind is not a supplement but an addition that is not much benefit and must therefor be subsidized.


18 posted on 08/07/2008 6:55:13 AM PDT by wita (truthspeaks@freerepublic.com)
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To: wita
You are right. For facilities which provide baseload power generation wind provides no benefit at all. Wind also can't be used to satify peak demand because it is unreliable and can't be depended on when when peak demend occurs. Also, the wind energy that Pickens is talking about is located far from the areas where it is needed. Wind can be used as a low value supplement to natural gas fired generation but is not the solution to our energy problems and Pickens relies on it too much in his plan.
19 posted on 08/07/2008 7:19:42 AM PDT by detective
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To: VaBthang4
I just emailed my Congressman and two Senators with that excerpt from the editorial and told them they should memorize it lest they meddle even more in matters that they have no business or Constitutional Authority being involved in. I know it will fall on deaf ears as all three are Liberal Democrats.

It made me feel better though.

20 posted on 08/07/2008 7:23:43 AM PDT by mc5cents (Show me just what Mohammd brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman)
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To: windsorknot
Personally, I prefer Slim Pickens energy plan: nuclear.

Heck, I'm more inclined to support Nose Pickens plan and I don't even know what it is.

21 posted on 08/07/2008 7:24:30 AM PDT by Niteranger68 (When it comes to Obama, just keep the change.)
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To: kellynla
It's not officially a scam until the Clintons endorse it.
22 posted on 08/07/2008 7:33:16 AM PDT by Ukiapah Heep (Shoes for Industry!)
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To: kellynla

Boone’s plan would double his fortune using your money. What an altruist.


23 posted on 08/07/2008 7:39:41 AM PDT by pabianice
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To: ken21
I to favor a balanced approach. I also favor coal gasification, an established technology. We have enough coal to run America for 250 years according to the Gov of Montana. I wondered why we weren't pursuing this then I found out that by law the Federal government can't purchase gasoline produced from coal! The government seems to screw up every thing. Here in Georgia a loon bat judge block a coal plant because of CO2 emissions which aren't regulated. She has no bases in law for her decision!!
24 posted on 08/07/2008 7:46:10 AM PDT by carcraft (The Obamalator, sold on TV, very expensive,doesn't work , is a cheap copy of the original Caterlator)
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo

Picken’s Scam is right, everyone needs to read this:
It shouldn’t sit well with the rest of us either. Pickens has gamed Texas for his own ends, and now he’s trying to game the rest of us, too. Worse, his gamesmanship includes lending his billionaire resources, prominent stature and feudal powers bestowed upon him by the Texas legislature to help the Greens gain control over the U.S. energy supply. ———————————————————————————————————————— Steven Milloy publishes JunkScience.com and DemandDebate.com. He is a junk science expert, and advocate of free enterprise and an adjunct scholar at the Competitive Enterprise Institute.


26 posted on 08/07/2008 7:58:31 AM PDT by iopscusa (El Vaquero. (SC Lowcountry Cowboy))
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: kellynla
T Boone's windmills can produce the juice, but the spikes to the grid are not good. Without getting into the details, I heard that the wind picked up recently and one utility had to drop a coal fired plant and they were ticked.

Until a Battery breakthrough occurs, (i.e. Lithium-Ion a-la the Chevy Volt or beyond that) it may not be a viable option.

I recently spoke with some famous aero-engineers off the record, who are well versed in many subjects and the green energy arena came up. independent of my ideas, they also stated without prompting that a storage system for green power is needed to make it viable. Just my 2 cents worth.....

28 posted on 08/07/2008 8:11:54 AM PDT by taildragger (The Answer is Fred Thompson, I do not care what the question is.....)
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To: kellynla
If Pickens is willing to forgo the $23.37 per megawatt hour subsidy, then fine.

But he won't. Wind power is a LOSER of money unless you get the subsidy. Pickens is looking to make MORE money from the subsidies on his windmills than he will from direct sale of the electricity.

This is just another way for him to make a few more billion dollars...

29 posted on 08/07/2008 8:22:28 AM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: detective
“Few of the politicians or the Washington elites understand this.”

Oh they understand for sure. However, as with the ethanol scam, wind is a sell-out to the Greenies and their “willing idiots” as the commies used to call their devotees back in the day.

Btw, this is not getting much press but much of Pickens land that he would use for wind produced electricity also sits on top of the Ogallala Aquifer which is the largest reservoir of underground water in the U.S. Pickens also has a plan to sell this water to soon to be water starved metroplexes. So, these corridors purchased via Eminent Domain legislation could also be used to lay pipe lines to deliver this water. T. Boone is a wily old coyote for sure...

30 posted on 08/07/2008 9:17:31 AM PDT by snoringbear ('Just so to get the terminology correct; it goes like this; the federal government is the Pimp, the)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier; All
The $23.37 per mega watt hour subsidy you cite is presented in Table 35 on page 16 of this 20 page document. You omitted the important detail that this subsidy is based upon production of electricity. A production subsidy comes at the end, after multi unsubsidized $billions of risk equity is invested in development of the production facilities. Also, the subsidy comes in the form of tax rebates, rather than a direct payment of taxpayers' dollars.

A useful graphic presentation of the total subsidy issue comparing fossil fuel, nuclear and wind is shown here:

http://www.awea.org/pubs/factsheets/Subsidy.pdf

Biased opinion pieces like the one posted here and many others posted on FR, falsely portray the subsidy issue.

31 posted on 08/07/2008 10:14:27 AM PDT by shove_it (and have a nice day)
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To: All

32 posted on 08/07/2008 12:16:28 PM PDT by PsyOp (Truth in itself is rarely sufficient to make men act. - Clauswitz, On War, 1832.)
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To: carcraft

i didn’t know that the fed govt can’t purchase gasoline made from coal.

you ought to post something on that.

thanks.


33 posted on 08/07/2008 3:41:38 PM PDT by ken21 (people die and you never hear from them again.)
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To: shove_it; iopscusa; sandyeggo; kellynla; PugetSoundSoldier

Re: Pickens.

Excuse me for being dull, but — if someone earns wealth from voluntary past investments and effort, why not buy legal rights to market water and wind?

Sorry to be dense. I just worry that at times, we confuse socialistic “lobbying” with legitimate, smart petitioning of govt. by private investors to obtain rights to provide more services via purchases of private or public (read: unowned) land, resources.

If real subsidies are expected from this outcome, I take it back however.

4L


34 posted on 08/07/2008 3:52:38 PM PDT by 4Liberty (discount window + moral hazard = bank corporate welfare + inflation tax)
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To: mc5cents

:o)


35 posted on 08/07/2008 4:21:56 PM PDT by VaBthang4 ("He Who Watches Over Israel Will Neither Slumber Nor Sleep")
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To: 4Liberty

Pickens is looking for the government(your, my & everyone else’s tax dollars) to build transmission lines for his windmills...and we’re talking TRILLIONS!

It’s been a long day for me but if you do a little searching you’ll find a few articles I’ve posted on Pickens and his windmills...a lot, lot, lot of money for less than 2% of our energy needs... GO NUCLEAR! 24/7 electricity...something windmills will NEVER be able to provide...NEVER!


36 posted on 08/07/2008 4:29:37 PM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: 4Liberty; iopscusa; sandyeggo; kellynla; PugetSoundSoldier
>>”...why not buy legal rights to market water and wind?”

That's what he did. It's a twofer. And he got zero subsides for it. I'd do the same if I had the $, wouldn't you? Are you people communists?

37 posted on 08/07/2008 5:17:09 PM PDT by shove_it (and have a nice day)
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To: shove_it

I’m not sure what kind of subsides he angling for, if any. That’s why I ask.
I assume most people are corrupt bass turds. Keep looking for an honest capitalist. And I have met a few...


38 posted on 08/07/2008 5:30:40 PM PDT by 4Liberty (discount window + moral hazard = bank corporate welfare + inflation tax)
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To: kellynla; All
Sounds good but won’t work until the greenies/nimbys, their lawyers and pet Congress crooks are rounded up and dumped in the UP of Michigan in November with a Boy Scout knife and a book of matches will nuke power ever have a fart's chance in a wind storm. See post #38 here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2055809/posts

39 posted on 08/07/2008 5:47:02 PM PDT by shove_it (and have a nice day)
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To: shove_it
Yes Comrade, we are all now Communist. The State holds all property rights...the people are only squatters.
40 posted on 08/08/2008 2:07:42 AM PDT by iopscusa (El Vaquero. (SC Lowcountry Cowboy))
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To: kellynla

Pickens is just another James Taggart.


41 posted on 08/08/2008 2:19:51 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Tarpon

DOI’s estimate of the amount of recoverable oil in Green Hills formation is probably more than a factor of three lower than what will eventually be recovered from it.


42 posted on 08/08/2008 8:44:35 AM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: AFPhys
I have seen estimates of over 2 Trillion Barrels in the Green Hills shale. The original estimate for Prudhoe Bay was 3-5 Billion barrels. Then years later it was bumped to 10 billion barrles. So far Prudhoe Bay has yield 15 billion barrels. Now they say ANWR has 10 billion barrles ...

For once, I would like to know what are we waiting for?

43 posted on 08/08/2008 1:45:20 PM PDT by Tarpon (Ignorance, the most expensive commodity produced by mankind.)
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