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Wind Power Is Just a Lot of Hot Air
Right Side News ^ | August 8, 2008 | Vincent Gioia

Posted on 08/11/2008 6:22:31 AM PDT by kellynla

At first glance, the energy proposals of Texas oilman T. Boone Pickens for wind power and increased gas usage sound good. "We can't drill our way out of this crises"; I happen to disagree with this statement. We still need to drill to make ourselves "independent from foreign oil."

But the real issue is what is behind the clamor to expand wind power in lieu of increasing oil drilling. To understand this you have to read between the lines.

Not only does Pickens' firm, BP capital, have significant investments in natural gas, but last June he announced plans to build the world's largest wind farm in west Texas, capable of producing 4,000 megawatts of electricity.

The federal government subsidizes wind farm operators with a tax credit worth 1.9 cents per kilowatt hour - potentially making for a tidy annual taxpayer gift to Pickens based on his anticipated capacity. But Pickens and wind power investors have a problem: since congress didn't renew the wind subsidy as part of the 2007 energy bill, it will expire at the end of this year unless reauthorized. Government subsidies the most important aspect for wind power usage and expansion; without them, wind can't compete against fossil fuel-generated power.

As pointed out by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution on July 9, "In 1999, 2001 and 2003, when Congress temporarily killed the credits, the number of new turbines dropped dramatically."

President Bush and Senator McCain have both called for renewed offshore oil and gas drilling. With gasoline prices around $4 per gallon, something needs to be done. However why is there opposition to offshore wind development? The Wall Street Journal notes that although there is no formal moratorium against offshore wind power, environmentalist and NIMBY opposition has stalled every sea-based wind project proposed in the U.S. thus far.

(Excerpt) Read more at rightsidenews.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: boonepickens; energy; enviroprofiteering; taxes; tboonepickens; windenergy; windfarms; windpower; youpayforthis
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"If wind energy were a sensible economic investment, it would not need federal and state subsidies already in place or the additional subsidies inherently needed in the wind power expansion directly and inferentially sought after by Pickens."
1 posted on 08/11/2008 6:22:32 AM PDT by kellynla
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To: kellynla

T. Boone is just an old oil salesman.

Now he’s trying to sell wind power.

It doesn’t mean it’s not feasible.

It just means it’s T. Boone Pickens.


2 posted on 08/11/2008 6:29:08 AM PDT by RexBeach ("Americans never quit!" Douglas MacArthur)
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To: kellynla

Blasphemy !!!!


3 posted on 08/11/2008 6:35:58 AM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption hasn’t changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: RexBeach

BTTT


4 posted on 08/11/2008 6:42:13 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: kellynla
T. Bone Pickens is drilling for dough. The tax payers dough.

T. Bone, GE, and Congress will make billions, all from guess who?

5 posted on 08/11/2008 6:42:31 AM PDT by G.Mason (Duty, Honor, Country)
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To: kellynla

....concerning wind power......

why couldn’t every home have a wind mill in their yard to produce their own power????? seems to me that if I were to have a wind mill here, the power it would produce could run my home with ease.....anyone else agree/disagree?


6 posted on 08/11/2008 6:43:35 AM PDT by HarleyLady27 (Rush thread tribal name: Mistress of Chief Gatekeeper.)
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To: kellynla

If wind power were so terrific the aircraft carriers would still be using sails.


7 posted on 08/11/2008 6:47:28 AM PDT by relictele
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To: kellynla
Pickens, and his cohorts Buffet-line and Sore-a$$ have their shorts in place with crude. t-Bone’s windmills may well be smoke n mirrors, like a bluff in poker,
8 posted on 08/11/2008 6:47:35 AM PDT by kcm.org (Conservatives bashing Sen. McCain has Ronald Reagan spinning in his grave!!!)
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To: kellynla

As is always the case with T. Boone, “Follow the Money!”.


9 posted on 08/11/2008 6:48:44 AM PDT by Don Corleone (Leave the gun..take the cannoli)
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To: kellynla

ole T-Bone is trying to use whatever credibility he has (funny how oilmen are fiends when they are republicans, but saints when esposing left wing ideas?) to focus attention upon what is nothing more than his own financial agenda.

he’s self serving, and no better then a used car salesman.


10 posted on 08/11/2008 6:49:37 AM PDT by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
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To: RexBeach

I actually believe T. Boone. I think he has financially positioned himself to where the plan will work. The goal to use natural gas to replace our oil usage in autos could be workable.


11 posted on 08/11/2008 6:50:54 AM PDT by cornfedcowboy
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To: HarleyLady27

Wind power just doesn’t work everywhere...just as solar doesn’t work everywhere...I know in Southern Cali, the breeze at my house wouldn’t fill a balloon. LOL
Now, solar is another issue, and my next house will have a solar roof!

For the TRILLIONS of taxpayer dollars that Pickens wants for transmission lines to produce at best 2% of our energy needs, NUCLEAR is a heck of a lot better energy source!


12 posted on 08/11/2008 6:51:11 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: HarleyLady27

Sometimes the wind doesn’t blow. Just a thought since you will have to pay for backup of some sort.


13 posted on 08/11/2008 6:51:18 AM PDT by Neoliberalnot ((Hallmarks of Liberalism: Ingratitude and Envy))
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To: cornfedcowboy

Pickens is just trying to get govenment funding(our tax dollars) for transmission lines and the cost is HUGE especially for the miniscule R.O.I.
We’re talking TRILLIONS for, at best, 2% of our energy needs.


14 posted on 08/11/2008 6:54:40 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla
In addition to wind, solar, nuclear, has anyone seen anything on "wave farms"? Here is a quick overview posting from Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_power

The basic idea of course is that the waves will always be there and can be used to power turbines. Apparently hurricanes are not an issue because the turbines are just below the surface. I've no idea if they are a danger to dolphins.

15 posted on 08/11/2008 6:54:52 AM PDT by SoftballMominVA
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To: HarleyLady27

“why couldn’t every home have a wind mill in their yard to produce their own power?’

Seems to me you can’t allow that. That number of windmills would obviously have an effect on the weather patterns and cause an drastic escalation of global warming.

:)


16 posted on 08/11/2008 6:55:56 AM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption hasn’t changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: HarleyLady27

Does the wind blow 24 hours a day every day? If not, you need a backup source of power. Some systems are combining wind with solar as the backup, but these arrays are still more costly than just hooking up to the electric grid. Personally I’d love to be off the grid with wind and solar but it’s just not economically feasible yet.


17 posted on 08/11/2008 6:56:11 AM PDT by Argus (Obama: All turban and no goats.)
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To: kellynla

1.9 cents per kWh is $19 per MWh, times 4000 MW capacity is $76,000 per hour if there’s enough wind to get to capacity.


18 posted on 08/11/2008 6:56:35 AM PDT by Steely Tom (Without the second, the rest are just politicians' BS.)
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To: HarleyLady27
...why couldn’t every home have a wind mill in their yard to produce their own power?????

But they're ugly, and they chop up the poor little birdies... < /greenie whacko >

19 posted on 08/11/2008 6:57:52 AM PDT by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: Neoliberalnot

Picken’s has got big investments in natural gas. Natural gas turbines are the flexible backup for wind turbines. Every wind turbine needs to be backed up by a flexible power source since they aren’t there when you need them the most..hot summer days.
We need to replace the natural gas power generation with nuclear. It runs all the time.
Picken’s wants to make sure that he gets his subsidies extended and then help with the extra transmission lines.
Then the utilities don’t care about the cost of wind power..they will just roll it into their rate base and you will pay. Plus pay for the subsidies. It is all about money nothing else.


20 posted on 08/11/2008 6:59:06 AM PDT by Oldexpat (Drill Here, Drill There..we must drill everywhere.)
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To: driftdiver
That number of windmills would obviously have an effect on the weather patterns and cause an drastic escalation of global warming.

You jest, but the flat-earth lobby is already worrying over whether the huge wind farms operated by Denmark and the Netherlands are affecting Europe's climate.

21 posted on 08/11/2008 6:59:16 AM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: SoftballMominVA

‘Apparently hurricanes are not an issue because the turbines are just below the surface. “

Hurricanes could definitely have an impact on these. 3-4 years ago one of the hurricanes moved a ship down in the keys. The ship is 510 feet long and was laying on its side. The hurricane moved it so it is now resting on its bottom. That ship ranged from about 70 at its highest point to about 130 feet on the sea floor.


22 posted on 08/11/2008 7:00:16 AM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption hasn’t changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: BlazingArizona

yes I jest but my point is the wackos will not be happy with alternative energy. Their goal is to get us to stop using energy period.

In all seriousness wind is an important part of our weather. If you remove the energy from the system in significant (whats significant?) amounts it would probably have some impact. Not to mention all the dead birds.


23 posted on 08/11/2008 7:02:50 AM PDT by driftdiver (No More Obama - The corruption hasn’t changed despite all our hopes.)
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To: driftdiver

We need oil!!
Keep supporting our congress heros that are still in Washington!!

We need a vote
Nazi Pelosi AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov

We need emergency session
President Bush comments@whitehouse.gov
202-456-1111

John Boehner invited McCain to join them
McCain needs to get his a$$ to Washington where he belongs
It will bring the much needed media attention
http://www.johnmccain.com/Contact/


24 posted on 08/11/2008 7:03:45 AM PDT by mouse1 (I'VE BEEN CALLED A REDNECK BIGOT AND I'M PROUD OF IT!!)
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To: Steely Tom
“if there’s enough wind to get to capacity?”

and “if” is the biggest word in the dictionary...

With nuclear, you have electrical power generated 80-90% of the time. While at the best of circumstances, with wind, heck you don't even get any power generated HALF of the time...so you need a backup...

25 posted on 08/11/2008 7:04:05 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla

Hey, I don’t need convincing. I’m with you.

I was just curious what the federal subsidy would be for 4000 MW running at full tilt.

I don’t trust Pickins. I want nuclear.


26 posted on 08/11/2008 7:07:32 AM PDT by Steely Tom (Without the second, the rest are just politicians' BS.)
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To: kellynla

So the government dollars go away and suddenly no one is interested in putting up windmills anymore. But I thought windpower was the wave of the future...would save the planet...would make its investors megabucks...couldn’t miss!! Interesting how tax dollars make everything more attractive...AIN’T IT!!


27 posted on 08/11/2008 7:09:28 AM PDT by Oldpuppymax (AGENDA OF THE LEFT EXPOSED)
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To: Steely Tom

okay...


28 posted on 08/11/2008 7:09:32 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla
Many years ago when I was a young lad who thought he had a good technical background, I worked an a project which generated electricity from the difference in ocean temperatures at the surface and at some depth. The project was called Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion (OTEC). As I recall the final costs were about $10,000/kilowatt. For reference, a gasoline powered generator was much less that $500/kilowatt. (This tended to be cheaper and simpler that any other means of power generation that I looked at, as I recall ,i.e., the technology was well know and reliable.) Consequently, OTEC installations were constructed only in a few locations where the expense or difficulty of delivering fuel were so high that an OTEC facility was feasible.
Now jump to wind power today. I suspect that if one prices wind turbines and their total life cycle costs, the cost per kilowatt of generated power isn't economically feasible. This is one reason for subsidies. This discussion is also valid for wave generated power. With wave generated power there is an additional problem of fouling by marine growth in most regions of the world. One suspects that the nation is once again being lead down a primrose path by the environmental anarchists. Does anyone out there have access to life cycle costs figures for wind turbines and for nuclear power? They should be made available to the public.
29 posted on 08/11/2008 7:15:15 AM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (Swift as the wind; Calmly majestic as a forest; Steady as the mountains.)
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To: kellynla
All types of energy enjoy Federal subsidies in one way or another that is the sole purpose of the Department of Energy. Wind gets a very small chunk of the DOE budget.
30 posted on 08/11/2008 7:22:01 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: Steely Tom
"1.9 cents per kWh is $19 per MWh, times 4000 MW capacity is $76,000 per hour if there’s enough wind to get to capacity.

WOW! $665 million a year in federal subsidies!! No wonder T. Boone PICKINS is spending all that advertising money, there's a big payoff in taxpayers' money.

Amazing how the lazy reporters of this nation are silent as sleeping sheep.

31 posted on 08/11/2008 7:22:09 AM PDT by cookcounty ("Yes we can't!!!" ---Barack Obama)
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To: Realism

“Wind gets a very small chunk of the DOE budget?”

as it should...I agree with the author, wind power is a lot of “hot air!”


32 posted on 08/11/2008 7:23:57 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla
I'm not buying that T-Bone Pickings is trying to feather his own nest. He has more feathers than he can use, although with these guys, a few more feathers never hurt.

However, I think there's another reason...a more important reason. The timing of his ads running incessantly 24/7 is extremely revealing....i.e., right before election.

Folks listening to and being led by this clone of snake-oil salesman, Jimmuh Cahtah, just OUGHT to believe Obama's equally-incessant message of alternate energy replacing oil which is SO possible and SO imminent right?

Why, this famed billionaire isn't even talking about that evil product, oil, is he? So why should we little people even be talking about drilling NOW?

T-Bone is a stalking horse for Obama, no doubt about it. Why else these endless, red-herring spot ads on radio and TV about something that will never replace or even come close to replacing oil?

T-Bone is in the barrel for anti-drilling Barak despite his down-homey, twangy lingo pitching a magic elixir which will certainly cure all that ails ya.

Leni

33 posted on 08/11/2008 7:28:07 AM PDT by MinuteGal (Stay Home in Nov & Vote for Obama-ization, More Regulation, Taxation, Litigation and Ginsburgization)
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To: RexBeach
Now he’s trying to sell wind power.

Actually, if you dig a bit deeper you'll discover that T.Boone's wind plans are secondary. The real reason he's pushing these wind farms is water, as in the Ogallala Aquifer. Transmission line corridors also make great places to put water pipelines. T.Boone has been buying up water rights in Texas like they are going out of style and is planning to make his next billion being a water Barron......and he'll use the power of eminent domain, courtesy of the Texas State Legislature, to achieve his goals......

34 posted on 08/11/2008 7:29:22 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Silence is not always a Sign of Wisdom, but Babbling is ever a Mark of Folly. - B. Franklin)
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To: MinuteGal

well if Pickens is hitching his wagon to Obama;
he’s picking a loser...

Obama has two chances of winning on 11/4...”slim & none”
and “Slim” just left the building. LOL


35 posted on 08/11/2008 7:31:57 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla
Wow, PICKINS is also in the Natural Gas business. He's trying to scam us from both sides of the street. While the crack journalistic teams in our nation are silent.

He's putting up a ton of advertising $$$$, and gets fawning brain-dead interviews in primetime. ----Maybe the networks have been "bought."

36 posted on 08/11/2008 7:32:08 AM PDT by cookcounty ("Yes we can't!!!" ---Barack Obama)
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To: Steely Tom

I have to smile when I read how “wonderful”wind power is....but what happens when the wind fails, behind every wind generator, there is a fossil fuel electrical generator, ready to assume the power load the second the wind slows/stops...

The other issue is, how much fossil fuel is required to make a wind generator....and, how many years of wind generation is required to pay back the energy required to make the wind power generator...I suggest it would require 20 to 30 years to pay back the fuel consummed in the fabrication of one wind generator....


37 posted on 08/11/2008 7:34:30 AM PDT by thinking
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To: kellynla; RexBeach; driftdiver; thackney; G.Mason; HarleyLady27; relictele; kcm.org; ...

The real story here is the water. Over the past decade T. Bone acquired a huge piece of the Oglalla Auquifer under his much-expanded Roberts County ranch. The windmills and their power line are basically P.R. cover for the water pipeline he wants to build to Dallas. Even though Dallas is, at present, uninterested in buying his water, he anticipates they will be in the near future.

Through legislative sleight-of-hand, he sneaked through a law that let him set up his own Roberts County Fresh Water Supply District No. 1 with several employees, having been given several of his acres to qualify as the necessary five landowners. In this extraordinary abuse of the law, he now has the power of eminent domain to steamroll his neighbors and the right to issue tax-free bonds for his water and power lines across the 250 miles from his hacienda to Dallas. The definitive story can be had here:

http://www.sierraclub.org/committees/rivers/documents/There%20Will%20be%20Water.pdf

From the articles on the Sierra Club website, Pickens did a great job of romancing Carl Pope—Sierra Club Director—who wrote a gushing blog entry about his weekend with T-Bone and his windmills, but the membership brought him up short. Others have crunched the numbers regarding just how much taxpayer subsidies he can potentially mine from our pockets. You may well ask what a bilionaire octogenarian would want with more billions, but, after seeing “Batman Returns” I adapt the quote “some men just want to watch the world burn” to “some men just want to make things happen”; a usually admirable trait that has everything to do with our national greatness but here involves a man wanting do do something big with other people’s money and other people’s land.


38 posted on 08/11/2008 7:34:56 AM PDT by sinanju
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To: kellynla
Talk about "windfall profits"!!!

Tie this man close to Obama, NOW! Then 527 the crap out of this idiotic monstrosity in October.

39 posted on 08/11/2008 7:35:58 AM PDT by cookcounty ("Yes we can't!!!" ---Barack Obama)
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To: kellynla

Wind power has been used for a long time. Nothing against using it again. The only issue is cost.


40 posted on 08/11/2008 7:40:08 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: sinanju
oh this is all just a game with Pickens...
it's his little “Monopoly” game...only he's playing with OPM...and he wants more of the government's money too so he can play longer!
41 posted on 08/11/2008 7:41:46 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: MinuteGal

http://opensecrets.org/indivs/search.php?name=Pickens%2C+Boone&state=TX&zip=&employ=&cand=&all=Y&sort=D&capcode=rsyck&submit=Submit


42 posted on 08/11/2008 7:42:25 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: cookcounty

Favorable publicity may be a big part of the reason for his little project. Most people of a certain age have a vaguely distasteful memory of Pickens as a Gordon Gekko corporate raider-type from the eighties. Among other things, I thingk he’s in full legacy mode and wants to buy his way into heaven.


43 posted on 08/11/2008 7:43:00 AM PDT by sinanju
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To: sinanju
The real story here is the water.

Here's a link to a story from a different source from a few days ago about Pickens' water plans:

http://www.junkscience.com/ByTheJunkman/20080731.html

Isn't the Texas Legislature controlled by 'Pubbies now?
Looks like 'ole T. Bone has some friends in high places.....

44 posted on 08/11/2008 7:44:13 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Silence is not always a Sign of Wisdom, but Babbling is ever a Mark of Folly. - B. Franklin)
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To: kellynla
Obama has two chances of winning on 11/4...”slim & none” and “Slim” just left the building. LOL

Oh, NO!

No encores of Una Paloma Blanca

45 posted on 08/11/2008 7:44:26 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys: Can't drive, can't fly, can't ski, can't skipper a boat; but they know what's best for us)
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To: kellynla

T. Boondoggle!


46 posted on 08/11/2008 7:45:00 AM PDT by US_MilitaryRules (All my bullets are dipped in PIG fat. How about yours?)
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To: Thermalseeker
Oh my, I have been skeptical of Mr. Pickens and have thought the transmission line issue was the fly in his ointment as others have already mentioned. I have heard/read there are between 4-6 wind generated megawatts ready or nearly ready to go online in the Northeast and the transmission line construction has been held up in the courts by our environmentally conscious friends.
I have never ever considered the water angle, but in Texas a pipeline is a common carrier, and has rights of access to right of ways, and if those transmission line ROWs have been established for his wind farms Mr. Pickens may be sitting in the catbird's seat.
I think Thermalseeker may have sniffed out a VERY interesting sidebar to Mr. Picken’s generosity!
47 posted on 08/11/2008 7:46:08 AM PDT by thinkthenpost
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To: thinkthenpost
I think Thermalseeker may have sniffed out a VERY interesting sidebar to Mr. Picken’s generosity!

Can't take credit for it. Some other FReeper posted the story a couple of days ago. I'm just reposting for discussion. It is very interesting, though, particularly the connections Pickens has in the Texas Legislature......

48 posted on 08/11/2008 7:48:54 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Silence is not always a Sign of Wisdom, but Babbling is ever a Mark of Folly. - B. Franklin)
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To: kellynla

With zero knowledge of the whirly gigs and just the opinions of others to go on all I can say is that in the Panhandle of Texas there are a gazillion of these things up and or going up ! None of em belong to T.Boone so far....... they are spinning 24 & 7 just like the reporters on all sides of this pro con issue.

guess it’s a wait and see......for me !.....:o)


49 posted on 08/11/2008 7:52:34 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: HarleyLady27

Have you ever heard how loud these things are?
Plus the bird bodies littering your back yard would change your opinion.
I think they should put them off the coast of every state. Start with Ted kennedy’s back yard!


50 posted on 08/11/2008 7:55:14 AM PDT by Holicheese (Hillary deserves the CMoH for her time in Tuzla!)
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