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Russia's Invasion Same as Hitler's
newsmax.com ^ | August 11, 2008 | Dick Morris & Eileen McGann

Posted on 08/11/2008 11:22:13 AM PDT by Free ThinkerNY

On Oct. 3, 1938, Adolf Hitler's armies marched into Sudetenland, a part of Czechoslovakia. Germany said it was responding to separatist demands from the large German population that lived there and that she was merely honoring their desire for reunion with Germany.

Hitler's tanks took over a vital part of an independent country that had largely rejected his overtures and allied itself with the West. Neither Britain nor France nor the United States did a thing to stop him.

On Aug. 7, 2008, Vladimir Putin's armies marched into South Ossetia, a part of Georgia. Russia said it was responding to separatist demands from the large Russian population that lived there and that she was merely honoring their desire for reunion with Russia.

Putin's tanks took over a vital part of an independent country that had largely rejected his overtures and allied itself with the West. Neither Britain nor France nor the United States did a thing to stop him.

Encouraged by his occupation of Sudetenland, Hitler continued his designs on Czechoslovakia itself and invaded the rest of the nation a few months later.

Will history continue to repeat itself?

(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Russia
KEYWORDS: dickmorris; georgia; hitler; worldhistory; wwii
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1 posted on 08/11/2008 11:22:14 AM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
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To: Free ThinkerNY
Will history continue to repeat itself?

It usually does, so that's the way to bet.

Especially with "Dr." Rice running State...

L

2 posted on 08/11/2008 11:23:57 AM PDT by Lurker (Islam is an insane death cult. Any other aspects are PR to get them within throat-cutting range.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Time to see who has the REAL insight to “Putin’s soul.” I say John McCain had it right when he said that when he looks in Putin’s eyes he sees KGB.


3 posted on 08/11/2008 11:25:37 AM PDT by jessduntno (Time to move.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

4 posted on 08/11/2008 11:27:23 AM PDT by Bobalu (If you don't want people pointing out your flaws, maybe you should work on not having any)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
Well, according to the Putin apologists this is our fault. After all, we recognized Kosovo, so Putin should slaughter Georgians.
5 posted on 08/11/2008 11:27:29 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

So you think we need another war over this? What do you propose to do?


6 posted on 08/11/2008 11:28:07 AM PDT by Eternal_Bear (`)
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To: Eternal_Bear

IED via USA


7 posted on 08/11/2008 11:30:44 AM PDT by The Toll
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To: Eternal_Bear

Arm the Georgians against Nazi Russia.


8 posted on 08/11/2008 11:31:34 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

I often listen to history podcasts from UC Berekely.

One professor there holds the theory that history is puntucuated by folks who simply grabbed at opportunity when it presented itself. Alexander, Caeser, Darius, Tamerlane, Gengis, Ataturk, Hitler, Stalin, etc. all used ruthless terror and military power when everyone else was divided and confused.

She rejects the idea that circumstances would have allowed anyone to assume power, since it took special, unique qualities of pure ruthlessness to take power. History rarely produces such leaders, but they make history when they do.

As often happens, history demostrates a conservative outlook, even then presented by liberal faculty.


9 posted on 08/11/2008 11:31:45 AM PDT by Wiseghy ("You want to break this army? Then break your word to it.")
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To: jessduntno

10 posted on 08/11/2008 11:32:54 AM PDT by Free ThinkerNY ((((Stop the Obamanation!))))
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To: Free ThinkerNY

This is bad medicine.

Ossetia is a gateway between the ME and Europe and it is an energy crossroads.

Whoever controls this point will control much


11 posted on 08/11/2008 11:33:17 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Eternal_Bear

Put some good old American power in the air. Death from above. Take out the Russian fighters and Choppers (if they don’t disengage) that are killing the civilians and wait for the Russians next move. Period. Let them take the next step, like JFK did in Cuber.


12 posted on 08/11/2008 11:35:22 AM PDT by jessduntno (Time to move.)
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To: Eternal_Bear

Arm and supply the Georgians with weapons and money, like we did with the Afghans in the 1980’s. Make the Russian bleed.
They are doing the same already by supporting Syria, Iran and Hezbullah. Payback time.


13 posted on 08/11/2008 11:37:22 AM PDT by SolidWood (God Bless Georgia and grant them victory over Russia!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Russia is making headlines at the same time that Bush is in China for the Olympics. We’ve been hearing for weeks that the US is conducting war games near the Strait of Hormuz. The underlying idea is that Israel may be very close to taking out Iran’s nukes.

To quote Fred Thompson in ‘The Hunt For Red October’, “Son, the Russians don’t take a dump without a plan.”


14 posted on 08/11/2008 11:38:08 AM PDT by NoKoolAidforMe ("Victory at all costs...for without true victory, there is no survival." Winston Churchill)
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To: wideawake

They just dont have the populace, they are out gunned and out manned.

Russia is rolling over them and Europe is watching, spineless.

Turkey is the most likely to make a move in my estimation, But if they do I think Iran will counter.

I base all this on my gut feeling. I really dont have a clue.

This is very scary stuff 2k dead and world energy markets in the flux


15 posted on 08/11/2008 11:39:57 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: NoKoolAidforMe

“All who live in tyranny and hopelessness can know: The United States will not ignore your oppression, or excuse your oppressors. When you stand for your liberty, we will stand with you.” George Bush


16 posted on 08/11/2008 11:41:19 AM PDT by jessduntno (Time to move.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

You lose.


17 posted on 08/11/2008 11:43:43 AM PDT by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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This really, REALLY makes one think about Obama being President rather than John McCain.

To be honest, and I haven’t been a big McCain fan, he has been right on Iraq and foreign policy issues moreso than Bush. He would have, IMO, had a larger force during the invasion, and even if he hadn’t, he would have done the “Surge” at least a year earlier...but I daresay we wouldn’t have needed the surge.

I say this as someone who criticized McCain at the time, but he was right. He also was right on Putin.

I may disagree with him on some domestic issues, but the idea of Obama being president now instead of McCain simply scares the “Putin” out of me.


18 posted on 08/11/2008 11:43:52 AM PDT by Crimson Elephant
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To: mylife
The Chechens - with no allies and a quarter of the Georgian population - held out for almost six years.
19 posted on 08/11/2008 11:45:00 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: wideawake

What are their alliances?

This is volatile situation. The region is full of warlords and unknowns


20 posted on 08/11/2008 11:47:52 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

Let me see... 1936/2008... no history will not continue to repeat itself. /s


21 posted on 08/11/2008 11:48:24 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (We're a non Soros non lefitst supporting maverick Gang of 2, who won't be voting for McCain.)
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To: wideawake

Can we trust the Uzbecks? Aberzijan?


22 posted on 08/11/2008 11:49:35 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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I think Georgia did something without thinking about the consequences. I think it is clear we, and maybe even THEY were caught completely off guard, while Russian was just waiting for something to happen.

In fact, I read a speculation somewhere that what may have started this was some of the “rebels” taking a few shots at the Georgians and they got fired up and boom...here we are.

Whatever the truth, there isn’t much to do in the near term but hope to prevent an overthrow of the Georgian government and hit the pause button. I would love to “do something” but in the short term, it is hard to see what there is to “do”

I suppose we could start talking about Russia invading Georgia and compare it to Saddam and Kuwait...and try to make the Russians at least think about consequences. It would be interesting to see what Turkey is willing to actually “do” as well. With the current Iraq and Afghan situation, along with the domestic mood, the Russians know we are in the weakest possible position.

If we can hit the PAUSE button, it might be time to start talk of setting up a permanent US base in Georgia and see what the reaction is.


23 posted on 08/11/2008 11:49:55 AM PDT by Crimson Elephant
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To: Crimson Elephant

McCain said victory in Iraq would be easy. I wish folks would quit thinking this guy had a clue anymore than anyone else did up front.


24 posted on 08/11/2008 11:50:30 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (We're a non Soros non lefitst supporting maverick Gang of 2, who won't be voting for McCain.)
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To: DoughtyOne

I guess I’ll have to research the quotes now, but I could swear I remember him taking hit on the GOP side for talking about the need for more troops. I suppose it could be my brain retconning, but I don’t think so.

The technical invasion of Iraq WAS “easy” relatively speaking. It was the aftermath that wasn’t easy.


25 posted on 08/11/2008 11:52:35 AM PDT by Crimson Elephant
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To: Crimson Elephant

I wish I had some background in this.

Thank God Lord Barama has a handle on it all /sarc


26 posted on 08/11/2008 11:53:07 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Crimson Elephant
With the current Iraq and Afghan situation, along with the domestic mood, the Russians know we are in the weakest possible position.

Hardly. We have large and extremely skilled veteran forces in Georgia's neighborhood.

Tblisi is less than 400 miles from Mosul.

Putin is gambling - he will easily sacrifice an airstrike to test how far we will go to defend our ally.

27 posted on 08/11/2008 11:54:43 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

What the heck is Bush doing?

Go back to Washington!


28 posted on 08/11/2008 11:55:42 AM PDT by dila813
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To: wideawake

He knows we wont do shit overtly in an election cycle


29 posted on 08/11/2008 11:56:28 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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And the world is war weary


30 posted on 08/11/2008 11:57:19 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Bobalu

No, no. Itd be much, much scarier if he was in Soviet uniform.


31 posted on 08/11/2008 11:57:49 AM PDT by ketelone
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To: dila813

Bush is in China using the olympics to poke China in the eye.

And its a smart move. He is using the world stage to promote the idea of freedom


32 posted on 08/11/2008 11:59:18 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: dila813
What the heck is Bush doing?

Gotta wonder, eh?

He left Beijing.

Where on earth could he be?

33 posted on 08/11/2008 11:59:20 AM PDT by Allegra (Goodness me, goodness me, industrial disease...)
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To: Crimson Elephant

I agree that there is the issue of the initial campaign and the follow-up. What credibility does anyone have saying the campaign would be easy, ignoring what the possible follow-up would be. I’m sorry. Either the guy was a military sage or he wasn’t. He wasn’t.

As for him suggesting a surge in troops strength, John had held an opposing opinion on just about every Bush policy since 2000. Okay, he was right about the surge, perhaps. I’m not convinced that putting new leadership in wasn’t the real factor for positive change. Yes the surge did help. Perhaps the biggest help was the psychological effect it had on the terrorists and the Iraqi populace.

It said the U.S. wasn’t going to back down. That turned the tide IMO. So yes, the surge may have been the straw that broke the terrorists back.

Bush gets that credit. McCain was just a bitter blow-hard IMO. When he’s CIC and everyone is trashing his polices and taking credit for victory, we’ll see who buys into it.


34 posted on 08/11/2008 12:01:50 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (We're a non Soros non lefitst supporting maverick Gang of 2, who won't be voting for McCain.)
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To: mylife

My son an I are talking about WW2 now, and how similar this is to Hitler’s invasion of Poland.


35 posted on 08/11/2008 12:02:18 PM PDT by fanfan (SCC:Canadians have constitutional protection to all opinions, as long as they are based on the facts)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
We will be fortunate if our inept foreign policy and State Department don't end up creating another cold war before Condi Rice leaves DC.

In Georgia clash, a lesson on U.S. need for Russia

By Helene Cooper
Published: August 10, 2008

(excerted)

"While America considers Georgia its strongest ally in the bloc of former Soviet countries, Washington needs Russia too much on big issues like Iran to risk it all to defend Georgia."

"There is no possibility of drawing NATO or the international community into this," said a senior State Department official in a conference call with reporters. "There is none. There is not a danger of a regional conflict in our mind."

"Strategically, the Russians have been sending signals that they really wanted to flex their muscles, and they're upset about Kosovo," the diplomat said. He was alluding to Russia's anger at the West for recognizing Kosovo's independence from Serbia earlier this year."

"Indeed, the decision by the United States and Europe to recognize Kosovo may well have paved the way for Russia's lightning-fast decision to send troops to back the separatists in South Ossetia."

"During one meeting on Kosovo in Brussels this year, Lavrov, the foreign minister, warned Rice and European diplomats that if they recognized Kosovo, they would be setting a precedent for South Ossetia and other breakaway provinces."

"As easily as the West could encourage a former Russian satellite toward independence and away from Russia's sphere of influence, the Russians warned, so too, could Moscow encourage pro-Russian breakaway regions like South Ossetia to follow suit."

"Russia's emerging aggressiveness is now also timed with America's preoccupation with Iraq and Afghanistan, and the looming confrontation with Iran. These counterbalancing considerations mean that Moscow is in the driver's seat, administration officials acknowledged."

"We've placed ourselves in a position that globally we don't have the wherewithal to do anything," Friedman of Stratfor said. "One would think under those circumstances, we'd shut up."

"One senior administration official, when told of that quote, laughed. "Well, maybe we're learning to shut up now," he said. He asked that his name not be used because he was not authorized to speak publicly on the issue."

36 posted on 08/11/2008 12:25:08 PM PDT by Iron Munro (Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself.)
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To: Crimson Elephant
This really, REALLY makes one think about Obama being President rather than John McCain.

If Obama becomes President, the Russian Empire will expand at least to cover all of Europe. Maybe when it tries to conquer Canada, the Liberal Messiah will ask to negotiate with Czar Vladimir (or he may simply surrender).

37 posted on 08/11/2008 12:37:50 PM PDT by Repeal 16-17 (Let me know when the Shooting starts.)
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To: Allegra

He only left after I posted this.

Is someone awake?

Russia is pushing to see how far they can go.

Someone better set them straight or no allie of the US will ever help us again.


38 posted on 08/11/2008 12:43:01 PM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813
Is someone awake?

Well, I am and it's nearly 11 p.m.

I agree - we can't abandon our allies in situations like this. Russia is testing her boundaries and we need to show them where the boundaries are.

This is no time for us to go wobbly.

39 posted on 08/11/2008 12:51:21 PM PDT by Allegra (Goodness me, goodness me, industrial disease...)
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To: Free ThinkerNY

We are witnessing the rebirth of National Socialism.


40 posted on 08/11/2008 1:02:16 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
I just got an email from a friend in Batumi. He said the Russians have sent in soldiers as far inland from the border as Mtskheta, which is about 1/2 hour away from Tbilisi.

He is terrified and sick. They are occupying cities.

41 posted on 08/11/2008 1:28:49 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: Bobalu

Perfect. Thank you.


42 posted on 08/11/2008 1:29:22 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: wideawake

What we could do in theory, and what we will do given the circumstances and mood are two different things IMO.

Weakness is more than a technical view of possibility.


43 posted on 08/11/2008 1:31:39 PM PDT by Crimson Elephant
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To: Free ThinkerNY
So, what's the rest of the story? Just thinking out loud...

Russia wants to completely control oil, but former Soviet state Georgia is in between Russia and the Black Sea.

Russia stirs up separatists in South Ossetia, knowing eventually Georgia will have to respond.

Russia then uses the "comes to the aid of the separatists" scenario to invade and occupy Georgia, it's primary goal.

Once Georgia is under Russian control, Russia now has control over the oil pipelines to Europe and elsewhere and the access to and influence over European governments it hadn't been able to enjoy at any other time previously.

Next, it goes after Ukraine to continue it's goal of reacquiring all the territory it lost when the Soviet Union fell.

Knowing that the Americans won't try to stop him, especially given his new control over Europeans' much need oil, Putin is well on his goal of becoming the greatest leader Russia has ever known and Russia's rebirth as a world super power.

44 posted on 08/11/2008 1:41:12 PM PDT by GBA
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To: mylife

BS. The Chinese and the Russians know talk is cheap, and we will do nothing. No U.S. President has bothered to go to an overseas Olympic opening before. Bush went to one in a totalitarian fascist state which is working against us around the world. By doing so, he told the Russkies and Chinese that he is a trivial fool. That illustrates once again his low level of intellect and strategic understanding. He never really cared about foreign affairs, and has abandoned them to Condi in recent years.


45 posted on 08/11/2008 1:55:37 PM PDT by hellbender
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To: hellbender

I disagree. He is doing what he can and using the Olympics as a stage

Whats he sposed to do? start a war? in an election cycle while the American populous is war weary?


46 posted on 08/11/2008 2:14:27 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Allegra

But what we we do? We need Europe in this and The Middle East or we will lose.

This is very dicey.
I agree about allies, dunno if we can trust the Uzbecks and Chechens or Tjiks


47 posted on 08/11/2008 2:22:39 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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We=will


48 posted on 08/11/2008 2:24:43 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Allegra
This is no time for us to go wobbly.

It may appear wobbly. This seems to be one big chess game. We don't have the resources to directly confront the evil russkies in Georgia. Especially not until we build up our stockpiles of missiles and ammunition, and other support materials (I'm thinking of a pre-world-war situation, we need to actually be ready to fight the big one).

So perhaps we make bold moves on Iran to put the Russians on notice that we can cross borders too. Plus strengthen our other allies in the area. Make Russia busy while we build strength to check them.

49 posted on 08/11/2008 2:27:09 PM PDT by roadcat
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To: All

Be pragmatic and hold back channel talks with Europe and the ME and Asia. Foment some surface talk dissing the Commies

When the elections are over drop the boom


50 posted on 08/11/2008 2:29:12 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of the Masses Could Be Farts)
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