Posted on 08/12/2008 11:36:18 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
TV commercials touting a new clean energy strategy and an environmental ballot measure in California both have one thing in common: if they succeed, they'll make investors – from "big oil" to the U.S. Capitol – a lot of money.
The ads champion Texas oil billionaire T. Boone Pickens' "Pickens Plan" to move our nation from foreign oil dependence to domestically produced wind power and natural gas fuel for automobiles. The plan is touted as a cleaner, more eco-friendly alternative to our current reliance on coal power and gasoline.
The ballot initiative is California's Proposition 10, known as the California Renewable Energy and Clean Alternative Fuel Act, which would spend $5 billion in California bond money ($10 billion by the time the interest is paid, according to the L.A. Times) to promote natural gas as an cleaner alternative for automobile and truck fuel.
Not surprisingly, the nation's largest provider of natural gas for transportation, Clean Energy Fuels Corporation (alternatively known as CLNE) has a great deal to gain from the adoption of Pickens' fuel strategy and the passage of Proposition 10. In fact, according to the California Secretary of State website, CLNE has contributed $3,247,250 to supporting Proposition 10's passage.
CLNE, however, was formerly known as Pickens Fuel after its primary investor, T. Boone Pickens.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
Yeah... except for all the government subsidies, government bonds, use of government authority for eminent domain, etc.
Kinda redefines the word "private," doncha think?
“The right’s extreme is oil drilling offshore and in Alaska, lots more nuclear, ignore wind and solar, lower energy taxes, let the market work. “
Tom - I also like T. Boone Pickens (who’s oft-quoted out of context by the Left) - watched his entire speech before congress and he concluded by saying that yes, he’s always been an oil man, but he’s an American first. He said we must do everything possible, do it all - beginning with more drilling and extracting all our immediate resources, while working on all the rest long-term as infrastructure and technology is developed.
Regarding your above quote, I don’t know what “right extreme” you’re referring to, but if you look at both the repub Senators’ proposed amendments to Harry Reid’s ludicrous, one-dimensional bill (none of which were allowed to be officially introduced) AND the House repub’s proposed American Energy Bill, which they also call “all the above” (which Pelosi refused to be introduced, much less an up or down vote), they include EVERY possible source and alternative, ruling out nothing. We must be multi-phased, with wind and solar being longer-term due to the required infrastructure, technology, etc. But the Repubs have included it all - oil drilling, oil shale, clean coal technology, more nuclear (like France, who now recycles over 80% of their waste into new energy!), hydrogen, electric cars, solar, wind, and anything else.
But the fact is, we MUST have an immediate bridge between today and tomorrow - and that bridge is to extract the many, many billions of barrels of fuel beneath our feet - here, and now. And it burns me that the Dems totally ignore that this is also a MAJOR national security issue - we simply must stop funding those whose stated mission is to kill all of us, as quickly as possible. Yes, we should have done this YEARS ago - btw, Bill Clinton nixed ANWR drilling in ‘95 because he said it would be at least 10 years before we’d see any benefits and he didn’t think it was worthwhile.
Well, you know what? here it is 13 years later, and how glad would we be IF he hadn’t turned down extracting that 10-20 Billion barrels of oil??
We HAVE to start somewhere. And the Lefties who say that drilling, & other resource extracting, will do nothing to reduce the gas prices at the pump are just plain
Lying to the public. Shame on them, for either their lack of research, or worse yet, their subterfuge with the American people.
If Congress and Senate would ever get a chance to just vote (Pelosi now says probably yes, but only as part of a “more comprehensive package” - read BS, numerous restrictions, so pork barrel-loaded that the repubs will have to vote NO on) and pass the kind of “All the Above” bill that the People want, we’d see the prices at the pump drop even more dramatically than they have over the last 3 weeks - and we’d see it overnight.
Increase future supply, reduce prices now - simple economics.
And the “environmentalists” have never cared about what’s good for this country - if they examined the facts, they should be far more concerned about all the fuel we presently have to import - produced by dirtier, less regulated, more inferior technologies from countries that do FAR worse harm to the environment than anything we would do here with our cleaner, less invasive, safer and more efficient methods (all the tar sand oil from Canada, for example).
AND one last thing - taxing the oil companies even more is NOT a good answer at all, in fact, it’s a really stupid idea for so many reasons (but I’ve already written too much and too long, to go into that :-)))
“and some, I will not say who on the right, have bought into the lefts’ horse manure hook, line and stinker. “
Thanks, OKD, glad I said something right! :-)))
Well, you don’t have to name them - we can start with the 5 who are part of the “Gang of 10” in the Senate, who came up with the “bi-partisan, comprise energy bill” that’s been so touted by the mainstream media (and Obama and Reid!!!).
We all know who did the compromising, don’t we?
“That’s why we need to produce electricity on a massive scale and the most efficient way to do that is with nuclear reactors.”
A very good point. Because another interesting fact is that, presently, we get about half of our electricity from coal. All the libs and environmentalists SO against fossil fuels who advocate electricity obviously don’t know that.
And, nuclear produces ZERO carbon emissions. McCain is kind of ignored in his oft-stated commitment to 45 new nuclear plants by the year 2030.
“People do that all the time, it’s called most small business people...providing goods and services for the good of customers and for their own profit too.”
yes,yes,yes - it’s the backbone of this country and why people from all over the world are literally willing to die to come here. since when is making a profit and being prosperous a BAD thing - as long as it’s done honestly???
This country (for now) is NOT one big 501(c)(3).
“and growing consensus that the Pickens plan will gain support, especially if Pelosi is firmly behind it.”
Don’t you see?? She’s going to propose a bill that will do what she’s been continually saying and quoting, cherry-picking a small part of what he said, out of context - i.e., ONLY the part about wind and solar. Nothing more, NONE of the rest of what his plan included - count on it.
” Makes perfect sense. I hope the car makers start marketing the their natural gas cars alot more to the average driver asap.”
And I agree - but once again, we have to look at multi-phases. That’s a few years down the road. We have to FIRST look at the most immediate, expedient, stage - and that would be both drilling AND uncapping the LARGE amount of wells that still have oil, but were capped in the past because they were considered at the time “not that profitable”. And, there ARE some areas in our country where the infrastructure is already in place such that drilling would produce oil ready for refining within months - not years and years as the Dems insist.
“but not bother to write in a bit of return on the “investment”.
ROI??? Oh, that’s an evil thing to the Libs - and YET, they whine and blame for jobs disappearing and being outsourced - AFTER corporations are being taxed to the max already (we’re only about 1/10th% behind Japan in having the highest corporate tax rate in the world - and the Dems - Obama, Pelosi, etal want to raise it even higher!!!)
And if I hear the phrases “big oil” and “windfall”, “record profits” one more time, think I’ll really throw up.
How incredibly, irresponsibly ignorant our elected officials in positions of power are, and how they mis-inform and lie to the American public.
They want to crack the whip on oil companies to magically produce more oil with only the existing leases they have, and then, if by chance, they DO find more - oh, by the way, they’ll get penalized and taxed even more.
DUHHHHHHH............
that’s fine...as McCain is saying , all of the above asap.
What a complete arrogant ass this guy has turned out to be.
Oh, we’re both in agreement here. I’m so far right my wife routinely says in polite company that I’m further right than Attila the Hun.
But I’m also a pragmatist and I realize that a sane energy policy will have to be a compromise. That’s why I like the Pickens plan.
As for indicting the extreme right, I didn’t really mean to. All I meant was that there are many on the right who instinctively decry wind and solar just because the left considers them cleaner. Well, that’s plain stupid. Let the market and other forces decide whether they sink or swim. Provide them a few regulatory advantages so investors are willing to take the plunge.
Another poster to my original post said that the newer sources require too much Government support. Well, all energy requires Government involvement to some extent. Even if environmental regulations are relaxed enough for offshore drilling, shale oil extraction, etc., there is still a need for review and appeal to Government. A transition to natural gas or methanol-fueled cars requires some Government involvement (subsidy, tax breaks) because the costs for infrastructure changes will not be borne by private industry. Ditto for the vehicles which will need new internal combustion engines. Far more changes would be needed if we moved to a nuclear-powered hydrogen economy, not to mention matters involving safety because of hydrogen’s great inherent instability (remember the Hindenberg disaster).
Your argument about Pelosi and Clinton regarding ANWR drilling is critical and I hope you make it known to the Republican National Committee for their next round of ads when the Congress reconvenes. Or send it to Fox News and Townhall.com.
It’s clear you have a good handle on these matters. Perhaps you have spent a lifetime in the energy industry? If so, be advised that I am a degreed Chemical Engineer with a lifetime spent in the defense industry.
“It’s clear you have a good handle on these matters. Perhaps you have spent a lifetime in the energy industry? If so, be advised that I am a degreed Chemical Engineer with a lifetime spent in the defense industry.”
lol - no, not at all, but thanks for your kind words. I just have an extremely inquisitive mind, have been getting educated about this and more (including radical Islam). Also hooked on cspan 1 & 2 :-))) I think I forget a lot of what I learn, but maybe more stuck than I realized - been told that by a couple of people.
As I said, I also like Pickens’ comprehensive plan - I’m just afraid from the signs recently, that Pelosi and Reid intend to introduce bills that take ONLY wind and solar from TBP’s plan, and omit/forbid all the rest of it - recoverable, more immediate resources - that can begin to help NOW. I pray I’m wrong, but we’ll soon see, in early September if not before.
“Limpley Grahamnesty makes my blood pressure rise every time I hear his name mentioned.”
Well, he sure has thrown his “best friend” McCain under the bus by being part of the Gang of 10 with a “bi-partisan” proposal that promises the Dems virtually all the concessions they want while caving on all the critical things. It also now threatens and cuts into McCain’s (and the other republican candidates’) edge in the campaign/election with his aggressive stance of “all the above” and going after all our available resources here, bar none (other than ANWR and maybe he’ll see the light on that one, too).
I understand your cynicism but energy will always require Government intervention of some sort. I just don't want Government to run things, and within the intervention framework want to let the free market work.
Why Government? Because most leases for new fuels -- be it oil, natural gas, coal, oil shale, uranium -- will be on Government-owned land. Because our laws require Environmental Impact Statements. Because anything done offshore is by definition not on private land, thereby requiring Government hearings, etc. Because new plants of any kind require permits. Because new infrastructure for energy delivery requires pipelines, high-voltage power lines, access roads, all of which cross Government land or somehow impact private or other lands. Because a transition to a new fuel (e.g., natural gas cars, electric cars, hydrogen cars) requires a huge capital investment, and no for-profit company wants to be the first to make the plunge without a tax credit encouraging them to take the risk.
So, forgive me, but ANYTHING done with energy requires some Government involvement. I just want to Government to enable things and then stay out of the way. And to not view any new energy greedily as another tax source. And to perhaps loosen up things so the NIMBYs don't determine our energy policy (by holding things up so much we end up importing more oil).
I agree with most of what you wrote above.
It, however, sounds 180 degrees from your initial post that I took exception to. (”Pickens’ plan is all private enterprise...”)
Just how? By taxing existing business to the moon to create giveaway cash payments to people who do not have to produce, but just try to invent? How many millions of jobs will he eliminate just to hire on more “researchers”?
“Just how? By taxing existing business to the moon to create giveaway cash payments to people who do not have to produce, but just try to invent? How many millions of jobs will he eliminate just to hire on more “researchers”? “
yes - that would be IT. Government researchers, of course, rather than private sector researchers. And guess which ones would be more motivated to be productive in the shorter amount of time?
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