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Judge Says University Can Deny Course Credit to Christian Graduates Taught With Creationism Texts
Fox News ^ | August 13, 2008

Posted on 08/13/2008 9:44:45 AM PDT by Sopater

A federal judge has ruled the University of California can deny course credit to Christian high school graduates who have been taught with textbooks that reject evolution and declare the Bible infallible, the San Francisco Chronicle reported.

U.S. District Judge James Otero of Los Angeles ruled Friday that the school's review committees did not discriminate against Christians because of religious viewpoints when it denied credit to those taught with certain religious textbooks, but instead made a legitimate claim that the texts failed to teach critical thinking and omitted important science and history topics.

Charles Robinson, the university's vice president for legal affairs, told the Chronicle that the ruling "confirms that UC may apply the same admissions standards to all students and to all high schools without regard to their religious affiliations."

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy; US: California
KEYWORDS: academia; atheismandstate; christianschools; confesstothestate; creation; creationism; education; evolution; heresy; highereducation; homeschool; judiciary; publikskoolz; ruling; uc
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Students should be able to challenge the courses for which they are denied credit. This is rediculous.

Here we go again...

1 posted on 08/13/2008 9:44:45 AM PDT by Sopater
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To: Sopater

Rack one up for the thought police. Regulation of the mind — the next big government program.


2 posted on 08/13/2008 9:48:24 AM PDT by Juan Medén
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To: Sopater

You wouldn’t be complaining if they didn’t get science credit for a class in scientology.


3 posted on 08/13/2008 9:49:46 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Sopater

“Judge Says University Can Deny Course Credit to Christian Graduates Taught With Creationism Texts”

But full credits for courses centered on the Global Warming Hoax, the Benefits of a Marxist society, the cultural equivalence of Western civilisation and that of naked savages in Africa, and of course the great historical and ongoing evil that is the United States....


4 posted on 08/13/2008 9:50:14 AM PDT by EyeGuy
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To: Sopater

My son is starting high school at a Christian school in California today. His school uses secular text for the regular classes, and puts a Christian spin on the cousework. They have a separate Bible class.

I have mixed opinions about this. Not sure what to make of the ruling.


5 posted on 08/13/2008 9:50:37 AM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: Sopater

“but instead made a legitimate claim that the texts failed to teach critical thinking and omitted important science and history topics.”

Yea, like public schools (and their texts) are on any more solid ground in the areas of critical thinking and important science and history topics. sheesh


6 posted on 08/13/2008 9:51:40 AM PDT by DonaldC
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To: luckystarmom
His school uses secular text for the regular classes, and puts a Christian spin on the cousework.

What do they teach regarding the age of the earth and Genesis?
7 posted on 08/13/2008 9:52:51 AM PDT by Sopater (A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left. ~ Ecc 10:2 (NASB))
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To: Sopater

IOW, Bible-believing Christians need not apply to many institutions of higher learning.

Evolution is one expression of the (false) occult doctrine of becoming (like God). See Genesis 3:1-4 for the author of this doctrine.

Is it realistic to expect God to bless America while we are rejecting Him?


8 posted on 08/13/2008 9:53:17 AM PDT by SecAmndmt (Arm yourselves!)
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To: Soliton

I certainly get your point, and I agree.

I almost feel like if a kid is trying to get to a UC school, then they should follow the coursework that is required.

College is optional, so no one is forcing these kids to go to a UC school.


9 posted on 08/13/2008 9:53:35 AM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: Sopater

Hey, does this apply to Muslims as well? Do they have Muslim high schools here? What about if they studied in their home country and come over here?


10 posted on 08/13/2008 9:53:38 AM PDT by autumnraine
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To: Sopater

The dogmatic war on creationism continues...

They know that evolution will shudder and collapse if students were exposed to the flimsy evidence.


11 posted on 08/13/2008 9:53:57 AM PDT by Elpasser
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To: Sopater

When a HS graduate gives a commencement speech that mentions Jesus, the state is establishing a religion and the students right to free speech and expression of religion must be denied. When a state college decrees there is no god, the state is not establishing a religion. Something ain’t right there.


12 posted on 08/13/2008 9:54:46 AM PDT by Always Right (Obama: more arrogant than Bill Clinton, more naive than Jimmy Carter, and more liberal than LBJ.)
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To: Sopater

To be expanded to include those taught that homosexuality is an unnatural desire and deny of the myth of man-made global climate change?


13 posted on 08/13/2008 9:55:03 AM PDT by weegee (Hi there.)
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To: Sopater
Students should be able to challenge the courses for which they are denied credit.

Challenge question #1: How old is the Earth?

14 posted on 08/13/2008 9:55:48 AM PDT by ColdWater
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To: Sopater
...but instead made a legitimate claim that the texts failed to teach critical thinking ...

Apparently, questioning the infallibility of the working hypothesis of 'goo to you' macroevolution is a failure to teach critical thinking.
Whereas the ability to regurgitate secular dogma is.

15 posted on 08/13/2008 9:55:58 AM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: Soliton
Will Scientologists be forced to recant their beliefs in order to attend school without taking remedial courses?
16 posted on 08/13/2008 9:56:19 AM PDT by weegee (Hi there.)
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To: Sopater

I think they are more intelligent design in that they teach that God created the universe, and that it has been around for a long time. Then they just go into science. I know they teach things like Carbon dating, etc.

Right now, I don’t now how they’ll handle creationism in the classroom. I’m sure they will be respectful of Christians that have differing views.


17 posted on 08/13/2008 9:57:15 AM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: luckystarmom

My son took the courses he had to to go to a particular school.


18 posted on 08/13/2008 9:58:16 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: ColdWater

If you believe that God created the world, then you believe in “creationism” no matter whether it is “old world” or “young Earth”. The age is a detail. No one is even supposed to acknowledge God anymore.


19 posted on 08/13/2008 9:58:20 AM PDT by weegee (Hi there.)
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To: SecAmndmt

Nothing in the theory of evolution through natural selection infers implies or states that any living organism will ever become “like God”. How faulty must your understanding of the subject must be to reach such an erroneous conclusion?


20 posted on 08/13/2008 10:00:47 AM PDT by allmendream (If "the New Yorker" makes a joke, and liberals don't get it, is it still funny?)
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To: ColdWater
Challenge question #1: How old is the Earth?

Answer: It cannot be determined scientifically with the available evidence and technology.
21 posted on 08/13/2008 10:04:29 AM PDT by Sopater (A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left. ~ Ecc 10:2 (NASB))
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To: allmendream

Pure evolutionary theory rejects any influence from God in the process but also fails to offer up any mention of whether God was “created” by the same Big Bang event, or God(s) evolved from the primordial ooze, or God was surprised by the whole Big Bang and evolution thing, or God doesn’t exist.


22 posted on 08/13/2008 10:05:29 AM PDT by weegee (Hi there.)
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To: Sopater

You flunk.


23 posted on 08/13/2008 10:07:26 AM PDT by ColdWater
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To: weegee

Wow do you seem confused. Science doesn’t make supernatural claims. That is why we call it Science and not Religion. The Big Bang has nothing to do with Biological evolution. If the Big Bang and Biological Evolution are the means that God wishes to use to bring about Creation then who are we to argue?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19956961/

Pope Benedict XVI said the debate raging in some countries — particularly the United States and his native Germany — between creationism and evolution was an “absurdity,” saying that evolution can coexist with faith.

The pontiff, speaking as he was concluding his holiday in northern Italy, also said that while there is much scientific proof to support evolution, the theory could not exclude a role by God.

“They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other,” the pope said. “This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such.”


24 posted on 08/13/2008 10:12:11 AM PDT by allmendream (If "the New Yorker" makes a joke, and liberals don't get it, is it still funny?)
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To: luckystarmom

Here’s what I think. Let the states have their schools and let them pay for them.


25 posted on 08/13/2008 10:13:35 AM PDT by demshateGod (the GOP is dead to me)
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To: SecAmndmt

“Is it realistic to expect God to bless America while we are rejecting Him?”

Yes because he has for some decades, but he’s going to turn against us soon.


26 posted on 08/13/2008 10:15:16 AM PDT by demshateGod (the GOP is dead to me)
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To: weegee
Pure evolutionary theory rejects any influence from God in the process but also fails to offer up any mention of whether God was “created” by the same Big Bang event, or God(s) evolved from the primordial ooze, or God was surprised by the whole Big Bang and evolution thing, or God doesn’t exist.

Evolution and the Big Bang have nothing to do with each other and shouldn't be conflated. Evolution describes what happened once life began several billion years ago. It has nothing to do with the creation of the universe or of the earth.

27 posted on 08/13/2008 10:15:26 AM PDT by jalisco555 ("My 80% friend is not my 20% enemy" - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Sopater; Gabz; SoftballMominVA; abclily; aberaussie; albertp; AliVeritas; Amelia; A_perfect_lady; ..

Public Education Ping

This list is for intellectual discussion of articles and issues related to public education (including charter schools) from the preschool to university level. Items more appropriately placed on the “Naughty Teacher” list, “Another reason to Homeschool” list, or of a general public-school-bashing nature will not be pinged.

If you would like to be on or off this list, please freepmail Amelia, Gabz, Shag377, or SoftballMominVa

28 posted on 08/13/2008 10:16:37 AM PDT by SoftballMominVA (I'm trying to think of a new screen name - any suggestions?)
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To: luckystarmom

Is the school subsidized by the people of California? Did this kid’s parents pay for that college? If so, they’re getting taxed without representation.


29 posted on 08/13/2008 10:16:49 AM PDT by demshateGod (the GOP is dead to me)
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To: luckystarmom


I have mixed opinions about this. Not sure what to make of the ruling.

I’m no theologian, but I’m suprised I don’t hear more about education for
the faithful in regard to the example of Daniel in The Old Testament.

What I gather from Daniel’s story is that in a secular society,
even under compulsion, ACE the secular cirriculum...
and hold onto your faith.
And be prepared to take a stand when necessary and endure the heat.

Daniel even taught his captors something about nutrition!

From your description of the cirriculum at his Christian school,
that sounds like a sensible approach to me (IMHO).


30 posted on 08/13/2008 10:17:29 AM PDT by VOA
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To: autumnraine

No, because Islam is not a legitimate religion, it’s a death cult.


31 posted on 08/13/2008 10:17:48 AM PDT by demshateGod (the GOP is dead to me)
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To: weegee

How does studying evolution make anyone recant their beliefs?


32 posted on 08/13/2008 10:18:40 AM PDT by Crystal Cove
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To: luckystarmom

I also have mixed feelings. Before I make up my mind, I’d like to know if UC is only targeting Christians in Christian high schools. What about home schoolers who use alternative texts? What about ‘un-schoolers’ who may use no text? What about Muslim high schools?


33 posted on 08/13/2008 10:19:17 AM PDT by SoftballMominVA (I'm trying to think of a new screen name - any suggestions?)
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To: allmendream

“How faulty must your understanding of the subject must be...”

He/she obviously knows more than you if you can’t see that the goal of Evolution is the godman.


34 posted on 08/13/2008 10:21:45 AM PDT by demshateGod (the GOP is dead to me)
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To: ColdWater
You flunk.

Sorry, I thought it was a science question. So, what is the answer to your philosophy question?
35 posted on 08/13/2008 10:22:21 AM PDT by Sopater (A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left. ~ Ecc 10:2 (NASB))
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To: Sopater
Sorry, I thought it was a science question.

LOL!
36 posted on 08/13/2008 10:25:30 AM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: VOA
What I gather from Daniel’s story is that in a secular society, even under compulsion, ACE the secular cirriculum... and hold onto your faith. And be prepared to take a stand when necessary and endure the heat.

Excellent lesson.
37 posted on 08/13/2008 10:26:07 AM PDT by Sopater (A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left. ~ Ecc 10:2 (NASB))
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To: demshateGod
He/she obviously knows more than you if you can’t see that the goal of Evolution is the godman.

Where do you even get this notion? The idea that evolution is necessarily progressive has been discarded years ago. Evolution is about species adapting to present environmental circumstances and does not predict the future.

38 posted on 08/13/2008 10:26:22 AM PDT by jalisco555 ("My 80% friend is not my 20% enemy" - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Sopater
Sorry, I thought it was a science question. So, what is the answer to your philosophy question?

It was. That is why your philosophical answer was was unacceptable.

39 posted on 08/13/2008 10:26:59 AM PDT by ColdWater
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To: Sopater

I teach a biology class with Bob Jones. It is the best written biology text I’ve ever seen, and covers so much ground it is in two volumes.

I’ve taught from others and find this the best.

Now it is true they don’t approve of evolution, and they cover the subject from a creationist viewpoint. They also cover how we are guardians of the earth and that a right spirit anchors the scientist.

They also put the history of science in a historical perspective, something secular texts are unable to do because they don’t understand how religion influences the science. It makes science so much more understandable, when you realize where all these great minds were coming from. For instance, you can’t understand Kepler until you understand he was a man of faith. He wanted to be a theologican and came to understand that by seeking to understand the universe, he was seeking God.

These are some of the things that make the Christian text different from the secular messes out today. It has a wholeness, of completeness, that secular texts lack. I get the same feeling reading history texts. They can’t mention God, so they have no understanding of reasoning people used.

Modern secular science texts and christian ones are not compatable, in my opinion. Secular texts have a strong emphasis on everything being chance. IMHO, they leave kids feeling very uncertain in an unstable world. Christian texts emphasize providence, the sure hand of a Creator guiding the formation of life and the cosmos.

A good teacher understands that kids will graduate into a modern society, and makes sure they understand all points of view. I use secular texts and readings as an adjunct in the subject, and have at least one class where the kids are assigned debate topics, having to take both sides.

I can tell you, as far as pure biology goes (understanding, for instance, physiology or botany) that a text like Bob Jones is superior, and the kids come out with excellent understanding.

This is just a power play by zealot secular evolutionists to attack Christianity. They don’t really care about the kids knowledge.

Sorry for the long post, but I do have some experience on this. I have spent many hours struggling over picking science texts.


40 posted on 08/13/2008 10:27:50 AM PDT by I still care ("Remember... for it is the doom of men that they forget" - Merlin, from Excalibur)
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To: Juan Medén

It would seem the students were indoctrinated rather than educated.

If uneligable for state college, they can continue the indoctrination at Bob Jones.


41 posted on 08/13/2008 10:27:52 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Conservation? Let the NE Yankees freeze.... in the dark)
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To: I still care

Evolution requires three things: random mutations, natural selection and time. How does this text deal with these issues, i.e. whether or not random mutations occur, whether or not natural selection occurs and the age of the earth? Really, I’m curious.


42 posted on 08/13/2008 10:31:42 AM PDT by jalisco555 ("My 80% friend is not my 20% enemy" - Ronald Reagan)
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To: I still care
I have spent many hours struggling over picking science texts.

Thank you for your post. You show some excellent insight and a genuine concern for teaching your children the truth. I also use Bob Jones' Biology curriculum.
43 posted on 08/13/2008 10:32:29 AM PDT by Sopater (A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left. ~ Ecc 10:2 (NASB))
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To: bert

When taught creation, the kids are also taught what evolution is, although they are shown the flaws.

When taught evolution, the kids are not exposed to creation science at all.

It seems to me the indoctrination is on the evolution side.


44 posted on 08/13/2008 10:35:21 AM PDT by Marie2 (Osama & Obama - both have friends who've bombed the Pentagon.)
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To: jalisco555; I still care
How does this text deal with these issues...



Buy the textbook
and you can find out. ;-)
45 posted on 08/13/2008 10:36:00 AM PDT by Sopater (A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left. ~ Ecc 10:2 (NASB))
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To: demshateGod
Is the school subsidized by the people of California? Did this kid’s parents pay for that college? If so, they’re getting taxed without representation.

How so? No one has taken away their right to vote.

46 posted on 08/13/2008 10:36:12 AM PDT by Citizen Blade ("Please... I go through everyone's trash." The Question)
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To: demshateGod
What physical means of Biological evolution were ever observed or predicted to confer supernatural or God-like powers?

The goal of Mormonism and some other religions may well be the “god-man”. The goal of Evolution is to understand the changes that have taken place and continue to take place in living systems.

47 posted on 08/13/2008 10:37:49 AM PDT by allmendream (If "the New Yorker" makes a joke, and liberals don't get it, is it still funny?)
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To: allmendream
Modern science denies any validity of religion (apart from a psycholocial impact). Antheism is atheist supremacist ideology, support the justification for it as you see fit.

To require that all students deny any hand of God in the creation of the universe is to beg the question, if God didn't do it, what alternate theory for God's existence do they support? They are certain God played no role and consider it heresy to think otherwise. Asking them to "explain God" is a rhetorical task and points out the weak arguments they leave as options for those who "cling to God" but accept that God played no role in the creation of the world.

No where am I making the claim that the Earth is 6,000 years old and not billions. Nowhere am I saying that it is not possible for life to evolve.

The only dead certain argument on this thread is that "God didn't play a part".

48 posted on 08/13/2008 10:38:14 AM PDT by weegee (Hi there.)
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To: luckystarmom

And when students are required to parrot the myth of man-made global change and that same sex relations as morally equivalent to those of opposite gender?


49 posted on 08/13/2008 10:39:29 AM PDT by weegee (Hi there.)
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To: weegee
The only dead certain argument on this thread is that "God didn't play a part".

Nonsense. The only assumption made by science is that that phenomena are not capricious.

50 posted on 08/13/2008 10:40:01 AM PDT by js1138
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