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Bush Orders Military to Deliver Aid to Georgia
Fox News ^ | 08-13-08

Posted on 08/13/2008 11:52:34 AM PDT by MNJohnnie

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To: alarm rider
" A better “humantarian” exercise might be a US aircraft carrier, just off the coast, with a few “humantarian” aircraft loaded up to the max with “humantarian” weapons of ahh...self defense."

90,000 tons of " humantarian aid "


51 posted on 08/13/2008 12:35:47 PM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
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To: airborne

OBAMA/PUTIN for the Democrat ticket 2008


52 posted on 08/13/2008 12:38:17 PM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
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To: Bokababe

Come on dude. The rebels in S. Ossertia shelled the Georgians. They did this at Putin/Moscows order. The way Russia attacked, this has been planned and setup for some time. The Olympics might actually had been part of the plan to help divert attention from Putehead.


53 posted on 08/13/2008 12:40:38 PM PDT by FreeAtlanta (NOBAMA - it is for our future)
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To: nhoward14

Some reports are getting it right in putting quotes around Putin’s “peacekeeping” forces.


54 posted on 08/13/2008 12:43:46 PM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: Bokababe
Georgia is so far into our pocket that doesn't burp without US permission, so why would we allow (or encourage) such a move, knowing that it would mean one of our allies getting mauled?

It could be nothing more than poor communication and poor intelligence.

55 posted on 08/13/2008 12:44:44 PM PDT by SJackson (Sell San Francisco to China to finance Obama health care, Bill O'Reilly)
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To: Prophet in the wilderness
OBAMA/PUTIN for the Democrat ticket 2008

And just like he's doing with Medvedev, Putin would be pulling Obama’a strings.

56 posted on 08/13/2008 12:46:17 PM PDT by airborne (American by birth! Christian by choice!)
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To: Bokababe

YES! YES! The US feigned pressure on Iran when the real target was Russia! Why go after a country of 66 million people when you have 140 million waiting next to Georgia. Insightful!


57 posted on 08/13/2008 12:47:32 PM PDT by Mashood
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To: MNJohnnie

Wonder what is ‘escorting’ those C-17’s into possible unfriendly airspace. I bet there is some close contact going on.


58 posted on 08/13/2008 12:53:40 PM PDT by griffin
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To: MNJohnnie

Hopefully part of that aid is hundreds of anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons.


59 posted on 08/13/2008 12:54:40 PM PDT by Grunthor (Dems want to destroy America, Republicans just want to be Dems.)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
From another thread:

WSJ ^ | 081308 | YAROSLAV TROFIMOV and LOUISE RADNOFSKY

Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:56:40 PM by Fred

President George W. Bush announced the dispatch of a U.S. military aircraft carrying medical supplies to the Georgian capital of Tblisi on Wednesday morning, warning Russia that he expected it to be allowed to deliver its aid by air and sea.

I am an AF type for sure, I understand the capability and the limits of air power, but now I am confused about “aid by air and sea”. Perhaps some of you Navy types can help clear up my confusion here. It has been stated and I believe it now that getting a carrier in to the Straits is not possible, so what is meant by “sea” in this statement?

Thanks

AR

60 posted on 08/13/2008 1:02:53 PM PDT by alarm rider (Peace! through superior fire power....)
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To: Righter-than-Rush

The Turks and Ukrainians sent aid and electricity days ago


61 posted on 08/13/2008 1:05:07 PM PDT by G8 Diplomat
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To: SJackson
"It could be nothing more than poor communication and poor intelligence."

That's possible.

62 posted on 08/13/2008 1:05:45 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: MNJohnnie

63 posted on 08/13/2008 1:06:29 PM PDT by RasterMaster (Rudy McRomneyson = KENNEDY wing of the Republican Party)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin
This is a good move. Under the circumstances.

Realistically, we can't just go in and bomb Russia back into the stone age (much as we might want them to do so). But we can supply humanitarian aid to Georgia, and taunt Russia at the same time. Russia will not attack US military personnel, because while they feel that they can take on a military of 1/100 their size, they really don't want to tangle with the US directly.

64 posted on 08/13/2008 1:08:03 PM PDT by meyer (...by any means necessary.)
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To: Fred

That is a beautiful picture. It looks like a bunch of happy people who love their country.


65 posted on 08/13/2008 1:09:25 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: Bokababe

Georgia being traded for Russians standing aside while Israelis take out Iranian nukes with US/ EU support.


66 posted on 08/13/2008 1:17:05 PM PDT by naturalized
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To: RasterMaster

Good to see ya Mano! Eeevil interviewed for Blog Talk Radio Duncan Hunter last week on the GOP Energy Revolt. He was awesome. You would of loved it


67 posted on 08/13/2008 1:17:27 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (http://www.iraqvetsforcongress.com ---- Get involved, make a difference.)
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To: Frohickey
See this:

George Bush squares up to Vladimir Putin over Georgia

68 posted on 08/13/2008 1:18:01 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (No Burkas for my Grandaughters!)
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To: Bokababe
From what I've recently read Georgia was shelled for three days by the separatists, then Georgian forces moved in to take care of it once and for all. However, Russia was ready for this and used it as a pretense to invade Georgia. Sounds to me that Putin set a trap and the Georgians walked right into it. The Russians had a lot of assets in place in that area that they normally would not have.
69 posted on 08/13/2008 1:29:30 PM PDT by aegiscg47
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To: MNJohnnie

I heard it on the replay! I somehow knew Eeev would be back with a radio show.


70 posted on 08/13/2008 1:29:43 PM PDT by RasterMaster (Rudy McRomneyson = KENNEDY wing of the Republican Party)
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To: FreeAtlanta; Mashood
"Tinfoil hat, drugs, lots of beer. Step away from the computer, radio, tv for a while. These all might help."

Think again. Geopolitics is chess, not checkers.

Politics today are not just based on who has the biggest military but who controls the supply of what economies need, especially when it is short supply. And that necessity today is energy -- oil and gas.

There are three key elements to the energy game -- source, control and the energy supply routes.

Right now Russia's sole power in Europe is not its military, it is that Russia supplies Europe with 40% of its gas and and oil. And Russia has increased its power with Gazprom deals that cross Eastern Europe. We, in turn, have tried to compete with that with the Nabucco oil pipeline that brings Caspian sea oil in via a different route that bypasses Russia. One of those non-Russian routes runs through, guess where? Georgia!!!! And what was one of the first things that Russia took out when it attacked Georgia? That pipeline!

But this "humanitarian aid" that we are using the US Secretary of Defense and the US Military to deliver(?) has now given us an excuse to plant ourselves right in that main-hub transit neighborhood.

This isn't "tinfoil-hat imaginings", is geo-strategic thinking. There is more at play here than just a Russian-Georgian border dispute. And if you don't believe me, then look at the figures that even Georgia puts on its "number of dead" -- "Tbilisi puts deaths on its side at over 175, with hundreds injured. That figure does not include South Ossetia."

A US presidential press conference, putting the Secretary of Defense on it, sending US military to "deliver humanitarian aid" and sending the Secretary of State to France to discuss it, for a conflict that left "175 Georgians dead"? Something is wrong with this picture!

71 posted on 08/13/2008 1:32:15 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: ichabod1
"a comedy bit about Condi, the good girl, the class president, and her dark side, Doleeza, who would rip your head off and spit down your neck."

She certainly looked as if she'd like to do some head ripping today.

72 posted on 08/13/2008 1:37:47 PM PDT by cookcounty ("Yes we can't!!!" ---Gasbag Obama)
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To: Bokababe

We’ve got our hands full right now in the middle east. There’s no way the Bush administration would purposely incite Russia with so many of our troops deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq. OTOH, Putin probably thinks the end of an unpopular, “lame-duck” president’s term is the perfect time to expand his territory,lessen U.S. influence in the region, and get his hands on more oil.


73 posted on 08/13/2008 1:51:08 PM PDT by chickpundit (Drill or get off the hill!)
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To: MNJohnnie

Good.

Now I would like to see us resupply the Georgian Armed Forces with things that go KA-BOOMM!


74 posted on 08/13/2008 1:59:00 PM PDT by Ben Reyes (Uncle Sam, beans and bandages are fine...but I need bullets,)
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To: chickpundit
"We’ve got our hands full right now in the middle east. There’s no way the Bush administration would purposely incite Russia with so many of our troops deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq."

You'd think -- but he obviously is freeing up troops to deliver this "humanitarian aid by land and by sea".

But, if this whole Georgian thing was a strategy by us, it's a losing one. Because even Europe is reluctant to back us on it:

"The conflict opened a diplomatic gulf between the United States and Britain, who condemned Moscow's "blatant aggression," and France, Italy and Germany, who were careful to avoid criticising Russia, a key energy supplier and business partner."

75 posted on 08/13/2008 2:20:58 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Petronski

Or mini-bar sized exlax-laced humanitarian vodka bottles for the Russians.


76 posted on 08/13/2008 2:25:21 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude Adjustments Offered Here Free of Charge)
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To: Bokababe

I think Bush is freeing up troops because no one else will, and it’s the right thing to do. It is in no way easy or convenient, but defending freedom usually isn’t.

I don’t see why the Europeans haven’t mobilized to help a democracy on its borders being overrun. Hopefully, they get their heads out of the sand and stand with Georgia before Russia regains its iron grip on eastern Europe once again.


77 posted on 08/13/2008 2:34:35 PM PDT by chickpundit (Drill or get off the hill!)
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To: alarm rider
By air: Planes, paratroopers, parachutes, and the like. It can also mean "communication". Russia would know this, so it's not like I'm revealing anything.

My communications to and from Afghanistan in Spring 2002 were "carried" via this Gorgeous Baby:

The U.S.S. Roosevelt.

78 posted on 08/13/2008 2:42:09 PM PDT by Alia
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To: alarm rider

The U.S. Navy has sent ships into the Black sea since the 90’s. There is even a regional exercise that takes place there. We http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=38435.


79 posted on 08/13/2008 2:45:32 PM PDT by rightsmart
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To: Frohickey
Is everyone going crazy? Fight the Islamists in Lebanon, fight the Cicoms in Tibet, and take on the Ruskies in Georgia and Ukraine?

Talk is cheap, my friends, but it will take American money and life and possibly lead to disaster.

Even Rush has jumped the shark! How do any of the 3 places involve our national security?

80 posted on 08/13/2008 2:50:54 PM PDT by duckln
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To: Bokababe
Check back a few incidents earlier than you started with. The Russian "community activists" were busy for a loooong time riling up the S. Ossetians and Georgians were being fired upon from S. Ossetia until it became necessary to do something about it.

Check back on your own and find out so you're not just taking the word of one person you don't know. Get several accounts, they're all over the place including FR, and weigh for yourself which accounts you find more believable.

81 posted on 08/13/2008 2:51:34 PM PDT by Sal (9% Nan has Delusions of Adequacy and Reid is just plain siiiick.)
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To: Bokababe

The 175 must be for one Russian attack in one town. The Russians had butchered a lot more than that in the first couple days.


82 posted on 08/13/2008 2:58:21 PM PDT by Sal (9% Nan has Delusions of Adequacy and Reid is just plain siiiick.)
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To: Sal

The Russians and Americans will meet in Tbilisi

83 posted on 08/13/2008 3:05:36 PM PDT by BurbankKarl
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To: Bokababe

Please site your source that Georgia started it. I’m not buying.


84 posted on 08/13/2008 3:10:51 PM PDT by snippy_about_it (The FReeper Foxhole. America's history, America's soul.)
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To: Bokababe
Something is wrong with this picture!

Actually, there are quite a few things wrong with your picture. For starters, no way the US prods 1,000 armored Russian vehicles to move into Georgia, before putting some armor into Georgia to stop them. Geopolitics is not chess. Chess is far too simple of a game. Also, the situation in Georgia was grave within just two days. Go back two days ago and quite a few people were proclaiming Georgia lost. The simple fact is that Russia took the most aggressive move it has taken outside Russia proper in more then a couple of decades. Who could have possibly predicted that ?

85 posted on 08/13/2008 3:24:56 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: Bokababe
"But, if this whole Georgian thing was a strategy by us, it's a losing one. Because even Europe is reluctant to back us on it"

Oh no! Old Europe isn't behind us! They've always just fallen in line before! We're in uncharted territory now! Clearly we must rethink our course of action and regain their approval.

OK, time to get serious, I'll stop joking if you will. I mean, you were joking when you wrote that, right? You had to be.

86 posted on 08/13/2008 3:31:03 PM PDT by Dan Middleton
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To: alarm rider

Not a chance.


87 posted on 08/13/2008 3:36:56 PM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: Prophet in the wilderness

“....90,000 tons of “ humantarian aid...”

Actually, those 90,000 tons make good humanitarian sense.

There are physicians and surgical suites on board to treat the wounded.

Desalination plants to provide fresh water for the Georgians.

Helicopters to aid search and rescue.

The kitchens could feed thousands.

There is plenty of room for some the high-risk displaced and wounded.

Those other things you mention, well, those are just ‘incidental’ items. ;-)


88 posted on 08/13/2008 3:44:31 PM PDT by Islander7 ("Show me an honest politician and I will show you a case of mistaken identity.")
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To: BurbankKarl

Thanks for the map BK. I hope we don’t meet in Tbilisi. I hope the Russian invaders stay the hell out of our way.


89 posted on 08/13/2008 3:49:18 PM PDT by Sal (9% Nan has Delusions of Adequacy and Reid is just plain siiiick.)
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To: chickpundit

” It is in no way easy or convenient, but defending freedom usually isn’t.

I don’t see why the Europeans haven’t mobilized to help a democracy on its borders being overrun. Hopefully, they get their heads out of the sand and stand with Georgia before Russia regains its iron grip on eastern Europe once again.

I am not sure the players involved are particularly concerned about whether georgia is a republic (democracy?) or not, but instead are looking at what economic and strategic assets are at stake, and what cards russia has to punish any critics, in the case of france/germany/etc..

Additionally, Georgia is geographically somewhat out of the way, in terms of converting tough talk into action.

I do not think it is the job of the US to ‘defend freedom’ halfway across the globe. Some of the founders might have suggested it was none of our business at all, but the US ‘defends freedom’ when it is convenient to and ‘ignores freedom/defends tyranny’ when it is as well. The ‘defend freedom’ is just for political posturing/domestic consumption.

I do think, given reality today, that the US must act to defend its own interests, which certainly include not allowing russia to simply take a former SSR and its pipeline and black sea port.


90 posted on 08/13/2008 3:53:54 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: Bokababe
Right now Russia's sole power in Europe is not its military, it is that Russia supplies Europe with 40% of its gas and and oil. And Russia has increased its power with Gazprom deals that cross Eastern Europe. We, in turn, have tried to compete with that with the Nabucco oil pipeline that brings Caspian sea oil in via a different route that bypasses Russia. One of those non-Russian routes runs through, guess where? Georgia!!!! And what was one of the first things that Russia took out when it attacked Georgia? That pipeline!

If you know this then why can't you figure out this? :-)

But I have yet to figure out why Georgia would throw itself in front of the Russian bus, for no good reason -- because S. Ossetia and Abkhasia doesn't really mean that much to Georgia, socially, religiously or economically. So why would Georgia subject itself to such punishment for no good reason?

Maybe you should talk to yourself more. Or not.

But this "humanitarian aid" that we are using the US Secretary of Defense and the US Military to deliver(?) has now given us an excuse to plant ourselves right in that main-hub transit neighborhood.

You're kind of overlooking the fact that we were already planted in Georgia BEFORE the Russian invasion, and had things continued as they were going Georgia was going to peacefully plant itself in NATO. We didn't need to plant ourselves there twice when things were already going our way.

This isn't "tinfoil-hat imaginings", is geo-strategic thinking.

Not quite. It's cart-before-horse thinking.

There is more at play here than just a Russian-Georgian border dispute.

That's obvious enough.

The pipeline transitting Georgia is an alternate fuel supply for Europe. The Russians want to control Europe by denying them alternative supplies. And control them they will if they succeed - lil' ol' Saddam Hussein had Europe by the balls for over a decade. Russia will be like Saddam Hussein only Russia won't be giving out bribes, just demands. Russia also wants to protect Iran. When you've got no friends, you have to keep the ones you can, right? So by doing this Russia can kill a lot of birds with just one stone. A conflict in Georgia is like throwing a turd in the Americans' punchbowl- it makes it harder to deal with Iran. It denies the US a part of a carefully constructed ring of willing partners. It jacks around with Turkey and NATO.

One thing that's obvious here- Russia wasn't "provoked" by Georgia, or set up by the US. Why is that obvious? Simple- Russia had all their assets lined up to do this WAY before Georgia made any moves. This operation by the Russians was going to go down one way or another no matter what Georgia did or did not do.

We didn't put Russian troops on Georgia's borders. Russia did.

We didn't cozy up to the Ossetians and have them fire rockets at our ally. Russia did.

We didn't make Russia invade Georgia. The Russians just did what Russians have a history of doing. Instead of winning hearts and minds, Russians jail great minds and put bullet holes in hearts. Instead of building themselves up, they tear everyone else down. Instead of competing, they prefer cheating.

A US presidential press conference, putting the Secretary of Defense on it, sending US military to "deliver humanitarian aid" and sending the Secretary of State to France to discuss it, for a conflict that left "175 Georgians dead"? Something is wrong with this picture!

Nothing's "wrong" with the picture. The move is what it appears to be - a US effort to shield Georgia by stepping between them and Russia and effectively daring Russia to pick on us. We are trying the "human shield" method because at the moment only the Russians, being the aggressors, are prepared to deal with this situation militarily. If we were trying to provoke the Russians from the get go- or had told the Georgians to provoke Russia- we'd have put all our assets in place first instead of the Russians getting to do that solo. The only option we have at the moment, since we were unprepared for this- was to play human shield, or just walk away. The latter we cannot afford to do- the repercussions would go on for decades, if not generations. Since we'd rather not have to kill any Russians and start a larger war, the human shield thing gives Russia a chance to back down gracefully.

There's nothing "wrong" with "dual-use" humanitarian efforts.

91 posted on 08/13/2008 3:58:36 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude Adjustments Offered Here Free of Charge)
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To: WoofDog123; chickpundit

“I do think, given reality today, that the US must act to defend its own interests, which certainly include not allowing russia to simply take a former SSR and its pipeline and black sea port.”

I should add to the end of that, ‘to the degree we can without having to take on russian defensive positions to remove them first.’

If russia had or is able to occupy key strategic sites in georgia before the US can, then it certainly becomes that much more favorable for them.

I don’t know anything about what ports or port facilities are in play here that would be useful for the black sea fleet to really understand what russia needs to acquire or hold on to at this point.


92 posted on 08/13/2008 4:03:28 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: piasa

Great post. bttt


93 posted on 08/13/2008 4:06:00 PM PDT by txhurl
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To: MNJohnnie

Excellent move. The aircraft, troops, and ships performing this aid will also provide an effective military trip wire that the Russians dare not cross.


94 posted on 08/13/2008 4:24:45 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: FreeAtlanta

I’ve been looking for a link to the S. Ossetians shelling Georgia before all of this kicked off, do you happen to have one?


95 posted on 08/13/2008 4:45:43 PM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ Romans 10.10/Eze 11.2)
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To: Sal; snippy_about_it; justa-hairyape
"Check back a few incidents earlier than you started with. The Russian "community activists" were busy for a loooong time riling up the S. Ossetians and Georgians were being fired upon from S. Ossetia until it became necessary to do something about it.'

Check back on your own and find out so you're not just taking the word of one person you don't know. Get several accounts, they're all over the place including FR, and weigh for yourself which accounts you find more believable.

I have checked all over. I am not taking Russia's side, I am simply looking at the politics in the region and the certain inevitabilities. One certain inevitability was that if Georgia attacked S. Ossetia, Russia was going to pound her hard. As I said earlier, it's like a chihuahua going after a Rottweiler. Why in the hell would Georgia do that?

Yes there had been skirmishes back and forth prior to this, but even the most anti-Russian articles list Georgia as having "invaded S. Ossetia."

The simple fact is that Russia took the most aggressive move it has taken outside Russia proper in more then a couple of decades. Who could have possibly predicted that ?

Anyone who knows anything about Russia. Even all the Russian experts say that this was a predictable response from them, when something like this happens on their doorstep.

96 posted on 08/13/2008 4:54:38 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: ClayinVA
hard to get a carrier thru the straits, I don’t think anyone has ever done it.

I don't think that's correct. The Dardanelles would be the narrowist part, and it's still a mile wide, and very deep. Carriers routinely port in places like Pearl Harbor which has a very narrow entrance.

Perhaps some FReeper sailor can chime in?

97 posted on 08/13/2008 5:03:57 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Bokababe
Why in the hell would Georgia do that?

Because the West wanted to find out what Russias intentions were. Very few people thought Russia would risk everything for Georgia. After all, tiny country, a couple of pipelines. Now we know. Russia will go for broke over Georgia. Russia now also knows the US/Eastern Europe will go for broke for Georgia. The opening clash is coming in Tblishi. IMHO.

98 posted on 08/13/2008 5:22:05 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: piasa
"You're kind of overlooking the fact that we were already planted in Georgia BEFORE the Russian invasion, and had things continued as they were going Georgia was going to peacefully plant itself in NATO. We didn't need to plant ourselves there twice when things were already going our way."

And you are "kind of overlooking the fact" that things were NOT going our way re Georgia and the Ukraine joining NATO. Or sure, Georgia wanted it, but France and Germany shot it down a couple months ago for exactly this reason -- they didn't want to have to go to war with Russia over a stupid border dispute in Georgia.

You do realize that had Georgia been a NATO member right now, we would be at war with Russia, don't you?

You can bitch about "old Europe having no guts" and you would be partially right. But it's also a matter of this being on their continent, not ours -- Europe would suffer the fallout far worse than we would from a war with Russia, including losing 40% of their oil supply, which is why they are staying out of this one as much as possible!

We have been pushing for a confrontation with Russia for a while now, bringing NATO almost to its doorstep, putting in a missile system in Poland and Czech Republic, etc. Now you can argue that this might be "good and necessary", etc to protect Europe from Russia. But let's not pretend that it is anything other than what it is -- cornering and threatening Russia in her own backyard.

99 posted on 08/13/2008 5:40:03 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: ichabod1; MNJohnnie

I see your point, but I think MNJohnnie said it right - who else is going to do it, plus - I think that’s what allies should do for each other. It reminds me a little of news story a few months back - when someone got ran over during a hit and run, and people just walked by and didn’t do anything. It’s the humane thing to do, it’s just a shame that we tend to carry the load.

What gets me is how the rest of the world tends to overlook the generosity of the US.


100 posted on 08/13/2008 6:35:09 PM PDT by HollyB
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