BREAKING: "Obama" Soetoro lied to the Illinois State Supreme Court

TexasDarlin, Tatan Syuflana, Associated Press, Attorney Registration and Disciplinary Commission ^ | 2008-08-13 | TexasDarlin,

[razorback-bert]

Thank you very much.

[Polyxene]

“Is Hildegarde’s War Room behind this?”

No doubt in my mind! Probably more to come.
August Surprise, anyone?

[expatguy]

"Isn’t it interesting how people learn things? Reminds me of trying to teach my kids some one thing or another. Nothing bites, then one day they come home all charged up having learned from a friend, or a friend’s parent or a teacher — “Dad, here’s something I can teach you!”

Hillary's legion of undead supporters now has the ball, you need to realize that back in January of 2007 they would not have been reading sites like this.

[expatguy]

This story first broke on FR back in January of 2007

[pissant]

Smoking crack and gay sex in a limo in 1999 might be an issue though.

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

expatguy !!!

Welcome to the Obama thread!

Hey, tell me what you think of the current working theory:

Obama Citizenship Controversy - Did Obama Travel to Pakistan on an Indonesian Passport? A Summary.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2059717/posts

[Calpernia]

Just my opinion, but if you are not registered for the draft, you can’t have government positions nor are qualified for receiving any government grants or loans. So, if he wasn’t registered, he could possibly lose his job and end up with a bill for any gov grants or loans he has received over the years.

Just a thought.

[Spunky]

"Don’t quote Snopes on a fact unless you independently verify it. They make mistakes and have biases that cause them to make some of them."

I have posted the link to Snopes and have posted the actual quote that was said in the book so many times now it is getting ridicules. As was pointed out before by someone Snopes would not quote what was said in the book "Dreams of My Father" incorrectly.

People need to start checking out things in e-mails when they come around instead of taking them as actual truth. Unless you are VERY new to the Internet we should ALL know by now how e-mails are manipulated to make something worse than it is.

[Spunky]

Snopes

Scroll all the way to the bottom and read the actual quote from page 271 of The Audacity of Hope.

Never once does he use the word Muslim. He is speaking about the American Arabs and Pakistanis who after 911 feared they might be interned like the Japanese.

Not a good idea to put quotes around words that is not an actual quote like these e-mails do and then it gets posted on the web.

[Edgerunner]

AP = American Pravada

[Ulysse]

ping

[browardchad]

In many states, even the adoptee doesn't have legal standing to force the records to be opened [which is a hugely controversial topic in American family law].

So I've read, but I can understand both sides of the issue. It's a tough call, and there's not always a happy ending.

By the way, you wrote previously:

"The theory holds that there may have been not one, but TWO adoption/legal guardianship changes during Barack Jr's childhood: The first, circa 1965/1966, would have made Lolo Soetoro his legal guardian, and would have sealed the 1961 records, and the second, circa 1970, would have made Madelyn Payne Dunham & Stanley Armour Dunham his legal guardians, and would have sealed the circa-1965/1966 records."

I don't see any rationale for the grandparents to adopt him. If they assumed legal guardianship, which would make more sense, since he was a minor and his parents were living in a distant country, a name change wouldn't necessarily take place. There's also been no suggestion, from what I've read, that anyone knew him as Barry Dunham.

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

I don't see any rationale for the grandparents to adopt him.

Well I suppose you could quibble over whether the state of Hawaii, in the 1970's, enforced a legal distinction between "adoption" and "change in legal guardianship" [or some other legalistic maneuver which would have given control over the minor child - little Barry - to the maternal grandparents, Madelyn Payne Dunham & Stanley Armour Dunham], and, furthermore, whether either "adoption" or "change in legal guardianship" or "other" was also accompanied by a "legal" name change [although, from what I've read, in many states, you don't even need a "legal" name change to alter your name in "common law" - you just start using a new name and begin to establish that new "common law" identity for yourself].

Anyway, the thinking is that some further legal proceeding probably took place in the early 1970s to start to break the legal bonds between little Barry and Lolo Soetoro, but that the Dunhams and little Barry might have gotten sloppy about it, and might never have completely refuted that Indonesian citizenship & the associated Indonesian passport, and that Barack might have travelled on that Indonesian passport after he became an adult.

[browardchad]

Anyway, the thinking is that some further legal proceeding probably took place in the early 1970s to start to break the legal bonds between little Barry and Lolo Soetoro

I can agree that he might have traveled on an Indonesian passport in '81 -- he may even have visited her before that, for all we know -- but why does that mean the legal bonds were broken? Ann Dunham remained on good terms with Soetoro. She went back to Indonesia in the mid-70's, and took Maya with her, for awhile, anyhow. Some news stories have mentioned that Lolo visited Ann in Hawaii from time to time. I don't think any legal bond was broken, and I think the reason was money. Indonesian money, not necessarily legally obtained.

She filed for divorce in '80, but the file wasn't closed until '88, after Soetoro died and Maya had turned 18. American Expat in Southeast Asia translated an Indonesian news clip on his blog that showed the house where Barry and family supposedly lived in Jakarta. It was sold in 2004 (the year Obama emerged as a potential POTUS candidate)-- by Maya Soetoro Ng.

You could theorize that Obama wanted to keep his African identity -- his mother certainly encouraged that, if you can believe the book -- so his mother/grandparents allowed him to use his original birth cert, even though that wasn't his legal name. I doubt if any of the institutions involved -- school, colleges, even US Passport offices, would have actually checked its validity. The Indonesian passport could have been renewed in Indonesia, where who you knew was probably the most important requirement.

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

Well an early 1970's legal proceeding helps to explain the infamous airport photos.

The idea is that something like the following might have transpired:

1) Barack Jr may very well have been born out of wedlock in 1961, and Barack Hussein Obama Sr's name may not have appeared on the original birth certificate [wherever that birth certificate was issued - in Hawaii, or in the state of Washington, or in Canada, or who knows where - maybe Kenya or Japan?], and

2) No matter what information was listed on the original 1961 birth records, it was all sealed up in the circa 1965/1966 Soetoro adoption, and

3) When Stanley Ann wanted to send Barack home to be schooled in Hawaii, in the early 1970's, she knew that she would need to get her parents, Madelyn Payne Dunham & Stanley Armour Dunham, to agree to become the legal guardians, and so Stanley Ann realized that she would have to go back to court to get the circa 1965/1966 Soetoro adoption rescinded, and so

4) Stanley Ann asked Barack Hussein Obama Sr to fly in from Kenya to testify to the court that in fact he was the birth father, not Lolo Soetoro.

Ergo the infamous early 1970's airport photographs:

[Spiff]

liar liar pants on fire

My kids use a different rhyme in my home...

Liar, liar, big and fat...
You lie like a Democrat!

I wonder who taught them that one.... ;)

[Citizen Blade]

What's important here is that he LIED to the Illinois State Supreme Court, and the really, REALLY, REALLY important question now is whether he ever travelled on an Indonesian passport after he became an adult [remember, Indonesia did NOT recognize dual-citizenship].

To have lied, he would have had to have known about his registration under this name. That's going to be tough to prove.

My parents could have registered me for school under a different name, for all I know. I never went back and checked my school paperwork when I was filling out my bar applications, either.

[1035rep]

Not too good to quote snopes either. They are covering Obama the Muslim militant’s ass bigtime. Several of their entries are flat out false.

[browardchad]

When Stanley Ann wanted to send Barack home to be schooled in Hawaii, in the early 1970's, she knew that she would need to get her parents, Madelyn Payne Dunham & Stanley Armour Dunham, to agree to become the legal guardians, and so Stanley Ann realized that she would have to go back to court to get the circa 1965/1966 Soetoro adoption rescinded, and so

4) Stanley Ann asked Barack Hussein Obama Sr to fly in from Kenya to testify to the court that in fact he was the birth father, not Lolo Soetoro.

In a guardianship procedure, it's the adoptive parent who would have to give consent -- not the birth parent, who has already surrendered parental rights by virtue of an adoption. It was Lolo that would need to consent, not Obama, Sr., but neither Lolo or Ann would have had to surrender their parental rights to allow the Dunhams to assume guardianship, if, in fact they did.

You seem to be working backwards from conclusions that a) she was trying to sever ties with Lolo, in spite of the fact that there's evidence she did no such thing until 1980, when she filed for a divorce she never finalized; and b) those airport photos must have some significance other than a visit from the birth father.

Again, Ann, who was not exactly a balanced individual, continually encouraged Barry to take pride in his African heritage while he was living in Indonesia, to the point of obsession -- so, inviting his birth father (who had just spent almost a year in the hospital, losing his leg in a drunken car accident that killed a civilian) to Hawaii, is just the sort of bizarre thing she would have done. She might even have paid for the plane fare, on Lolo's dime, since according to "Dreams," Obama's African half-sister told him  that Obama, Sr. was broke and unemployed at the time. I doubt Madelyn Dunham was thrilled about it either -- the visit ended in a major family argument, according to the book.

[Beckwith]

I say we go through all his records

There are none - - zero - - zilch - - nada! He has no paper trail.

This guy is a cypher.