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Who's Next On Russia's Hit Parade?
Vanity - Internet Research ^ | 08/14/08 | InABunkerUnderSF

Posted on 08/14/2008 5:49:34 PM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF

If you googled “Invasion of South Ossetia” on Monday of this week one of the sites near the top of the list was the vitriolic anti Georgian propaganda web site “war.georgia.su” which detailed Georgian atrocities and planned atrocities against the peace loving people of South Ossetia. When I first saw it, the first thing that caught my eye (other than the over the top blood dripping pro anti Georian propaganda) was that the domain name itself. It did not end in “ge” as in Georgia but “su”, the domain name of sites in the former Soviet Union.

This made me curious so I did a WhoIs search on the domain. Here is what I found out:

The organization name for the domain “Relcom Business Network” Ltd. They are located at Marshala Vasilevskogo str., 1/2, Moscow, 123098 under the name of Lubov V. Vidanova. The Moscow phone and fax numbers given are four digits apart implying that t hey are in the same office.

The most interesting thing about the domain is that it was created on June 19, 1999. Who needed an anti Georgian propaganda site in 1999? If I read the WhoIs record correctly the organization changed ownership on February 7, 2007. Did the site’s purpose change in February 2007? Finally, who is Lubov V. Vidanova and why was anyone in Russia registering domain names under .su in June of 1999?

One final thing worth noting, I also did WhoIs searches on every other breakaway component of the former Soviet Union from Moldova to Kazakhstan, looking for {country}.su domain names. There are two others – armenia.su and azerbaijan.su, both registered to “Relcom Business Network” Ltd. at Marshala Vasilevskogo str., 1/2, Moscow, 123098 under the name of Lubov V. Vidanova. Both were created on June 19, 1999. Both seem to have changed hands on February 7, 2007.

Anyone care to speculate on what the Russian’s long term military goals are in the Caucuses after it finishes with Georgia?


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: armenia; azerbaijan; georgia; russia
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1 posted on 08/14/2008 5:49:34 PM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

Ukraine then Belarus.


2 posted on 08/14/2008 5:50:23 PM PDT by Perdogg
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To: InABunkerUnderSF; Buckhead; Jim Robinson

Great find!

In the tradition of Buckhead!


3 posted on 08/14/2008 5:54:26 PM PDT by Momaw Nadon ("...with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world.")
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, East Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, but then I digress ... Putin is hoping for an Obama victory ...


4 posted on 08/14/2008 5:55:41 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("What Our Enemies Couldn't Do To Us Our Liberal Democrat Politicians Will")
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To: Perdogg
Ukraine then Belarus.

That would be the case if they were thinking defensively.

I'm more inclined to follow the oil. If they can get a strangle hold on petroleum and natural gas exports from the Caucasus they won't need to worry as much about threats to their west.

5 posted on 08/14/2008 5:58:04 PM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF ("Gun Control" is not about the guns. "Illegal Immigration" is not about the immigration)
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To: Perdogg

Putin already has a dictatorial puppet ruling Belarus.


6 posted on 08/14/2008 5:58:21 PM PDT by rfp1234 (Phodopus campbelli: household ruler since July 2007.)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

When they pony up with Iran, Israel.


7 posted on 08/14/2008 5:59:06 PM PDT by Toespi
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
Who needed an anti Georgian propaganda site in 1999?

Russia has made rhetorically linked NATO's actions in Kosovo to what it is currently doing in Georgia. Dunno how long they've been linking the two, but the Kosovo war was in 1999.

8 posted on 08/14/2008 6:01:58 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: skeeter

I don’t recall that they did link the Balkans and the Caucasus at that time but may not have noticed. Serbia is a traditional Russian ally. Stomping on the Serbs made Russia very hot about it (thank you President Clinton). Arguably NATO’s attack on Serbia is what brought Putin to power. Anyway, the domains were registered in June 1999, Putin became president on December 31, 1999 (per Wiki).

The whole “linkage” argument becomes more spurious by the day though. I don’t recall NATO forces marching on Belgrade.


9 posted on 08/14/2008 6:11:27 PM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF ("Gun Control" is not about the guns. "Illegal Immigration" is not about the immigration)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

Azerbaijan >>> shoulder to shoulder with Iran.


10 posted on 08/14/2008 6:15:03 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
The whole “linkage” argument becomes more spurious by the day though. I don’t recall NATO forces marching on Belgrade.

Do you think the Russians care about such distinctions?

11 posted on 08/14/2008 6:35:48 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

Fascinating and thank you for your strong work!!


12 posted on 08/14/2008 6:39:19 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: skeeter
Do you think the Russians care about such distinctions?

Not for a heartbeat but it's the kind of thing that can be used to respond to the hand wringers and those who would draw moral equations between the actions Georgians and the Russians.

13 posted on 08/14/2008 6:57:43 PM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF ("Gun Control" is not about the guns. "Illegal Immigration" is not about the immigration)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
She is a bookseller in Moscow, or was at some time.

let's keep this going, this is what freepers do so well

14 posted on 08/14/2008 6:58:19 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: SkyDancer

what do you think the US government should do to Russia ?


15 posted on 08/14/2008 6:59:00 PM PDT by americasfuture
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

Ukraine and then the Baltics. At the Kremlin, they refer to the Batlics as “Wayward Children”. As in its only a matter to time before they return to Russias sphere of influence.


16 posted on 08/14/2008 7:03:54 PM PDT by Proud_USA_Republican (We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good. - Hillary Clinton)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
Russian news for 2/2007
17 posted on 08/14/2008 7:12:56 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: americasfuture

I am not a politician so I don’t know ... what has to happen though is for Russia to be ostracized from the World community ... you want to act like thugs then we won’t have anything to do with you .....


18 posted on 08/14/2008 7:19:42 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("What Our Enemies Couldn't Do To Us Our Liberal Democrat Politicians Will")
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

The Baltics and the Ukies will fight together, if it’s one of them, and Poland will join them, it ain’t gonna happen, the messianic Russkies know that!


19 posted on 08/14/2008 7:22:55 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Are you ready to pray for Teddy?)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

I doubt they’d be impressed either.


20 posted on 08/14/2008 7:35:12 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
I don’t recall NATO forces marching on Belgrade.

They wanted the right to do that via Rambouilette, but had to settle for bombing Belgrade and marching into Kosovo,

21 posted on 08/14/2008 8:29:44 PM PDT by F-117A (Mr. Bush, Condi, have someone read UN Resolution 1244 to you!!!)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

Very interesting.


22 posted on 08/14/2008 8:42:02 PM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: MarMema

Hmmmm...

http://ssgdoc.bibliothek.uni-halle.de/vlib/ssgfi/infodata/001777.html

404 URL Not Found


23 posted on 08/14/2008 9:03:55 PM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF ("Gun Control" is not about the guns. "Illegal Immigration" is not about the immigration)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

Works for me, but I am at work...


24 posted on 08/14/2008 9:06:18 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
Bibliographic Data --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Title MIPP International
Publisher MIPP International, Inc., Minsk, BY
Distributor Lubov V Vidanova , Moscow, RU
Language English
Country (Server) Russian Federation
Format of data text/html
Keywords books; booksellers; periodicals; Central Asia;
Caucasus; Minsk; Commonwealth of Independent States
German Keywords Sortimentsbuchhandel; Minsk
Description "MIPP INTERNATIONAL - the vendor of books
and periodicals from post-Soviet countries since
1991...Here you can: Search through over 12.000 titles
from Russian regions, C.I.S. and all post-Soviet
countries using multiple criteria; Browse our databases
by region or by topic; Subscribe to over 800
periodicals from all countries of the former Soviet
Union..."
URL http://www.mipp.msk.ru/books/

Classification --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source Type Booksellers
SSGC General Resources: Libraries, Booksellers and Publishing Houses
BK 06.25
DDC 381.45002

Date --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DCq.Date.Modified 2001-08-24

25 posted on 08/14/2008 9:08:04 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
There are two others – armenia.su and azerbaijan.su,

This fits with my theory that Russia wants to wrap up the land route to Iran and have the surrounding water. The only two little countries between Russia and Iran are Azerbaijan and Armenia. The Caspian Sea and the Black sea flank each side.

By the way, Russia has handed out passports to Azerbaijan also. Just like they did in Ossetia.

26 posted on 08/14/2008 9:15:41 PM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: americasfuture

The Name of the game is Prisoner’s Dilemma. The best strategy is tit-for-tat.

Initial steps,

—Propaganda offensive against Russian aggression focusing on Europe and the Caucasus.
—Removal of Russia from the G7 and attempt to isolate Russia from the global economy.
—Trade embargo on high tech goods to Russia and countries who do not observe the embargo (Operation Exodus reborn).
—Remove eligibility of Russian citizens from H1B and L1 visa programs.
—Missile defense for Poland.
—Enhancement of defense ties with the Baltic States.
—Enhance defense ties and maneuvers with Ukrainian military either in Ukrainia or here.
—Enhance defense ties with Armenia, and if possible Iran’s ally Azerbaijan.
—Invite Georgia into NATO.
—Pray for peace.

This could last for decades.


27 posted on 08/14/2008 9:17:28 PM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF ("Gun Control" is not about the guns. "Illegal Immigration" is not about the immigration)
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To: MarMema

Sorry, meant:

http://www.mipp.msk.ru/books/

404 URL Not Found

Copied the wrong URL. Her URL is Russia has ceased to be available..


28 posted on 08/14/2008 9:23:31 PM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF ("Gun Control" is not about the guns. "Illegal Immigration" is not about the immigration)
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To: Lijahsbubbe

Whoa. Now that is interesting. Armenia will throw in the towel immediately. Hmmm...


29 posted on 08/14/2008 9:23:32 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: Lijahsbubbe

Russia has wanted Iran for a long time.


30 posted on 08/14/2008 9:35:02 PM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF ("Gun Control" is not about the guns. "Illegal Immigration" is not about the immigration)
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To: MarMema

Azerbaijan also has a couple of ‘breakaway’ regions to deal with.

Also,I read that the number of Azerbaijanis leaving for Russia have been greater than those coming back. It’s sounds like Russia has been setting up a nice mix there too.


31 posted on 08/14/2008 9:35:44 PM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: Lijahsbubbe

Wow, I am going to do some research on this. It’s the Russian specialty of the decade, of course, separatism.


32 posted on 08/14/2008 9:37:56 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

I don’t think it’s so much Russia wanting Iran, but rather setting up a nice corridor with their buddy. And controlling the area.


33 posted on 08/14/2008 9:38:20 PM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: Lijahsbubbe

They are already in NATO.


34 posted on 08/14/2008 9:39:27 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

The U.S. needs to start heavy scrutinization of the banking records of Russian businessmen. They can start with Lubov V. Vidanova. It might be time to place some Russian banks off limits to American businesses too.


35 posted on 08/14/2008 9:45:56 PM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin '36 ... Olympics for murdering regimes. ... Beijing '08)
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To: MarMema

http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=430&contentId=2000578

This is a good article.Big projects have been going on with gas and oil.(BP is in Azerbaijan) Note this paragraph:

Alongside the SCP, we’re managing the construction of the much longer Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan (BTC) oil pipeline. It will run from Sangachal all the way across Turkey to the coast, linking the Caspian and Mediterranean. When complete, the 1,760km of pipe will hold 10 million barrels of oil at a time. The BTC will bypass the congested sea-lanes of the Bosphorus, reducing the risk of spills while strengthening the economic ties between Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkey and the West.


36 posted on 08/14/2008 9:48:12 PM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

Seems Georgia is still being hammered.


37 posted on 08/14/2008 9:51:59 PM PDT by dragnet2
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To: All
Just look at the crap in a Russian news source online...

Nowadays this is a situation: Russia either exists and becomes stronger or turns out to be a mirage

Putin’s eight-year term has finished at the 7th of August, in the moment of massive attack of the Georgians to Tskhinval. Putin made Russia sovereignty, which was lost in Gorbachev-Eltsin’s period. But he avoided armed conflict with USA and theirs marionettes on the post-soviet area. And Medvedev was elevated in case of this compromise in order to provoke Washington with the third term.

If Russia will decide not to enter the conflict - that will be a choice, fatal choice. It will mean, that Russia gives up her sovereignty.

Until recently (July 2008) USA was playing in cat-and-mouse with Moscow. They tried to put furtively different projects of intensity-taking down and pragmatic search of general intent as cover-up. At 7-th August has coming the turning-point. Putin and Medvedev must give the clear answer: are-they for sovereign Russia or they are for saving relationships with USA?

The Americans delivered an ultimatum had ordering the Georgians to attack Tskhinval. Postponement's time of the most unpleasant and difficult decision is up. A watch keeps war, maybe, World War III.

At noon, the 8th of August, Moscow has not made a decision yet. Our authorities procrastinate to the last, don't believe, that it is true but not a dream. But this impossible to avoid the choice any longer; otherwise someone else will do it.

So, what is the choice, and what kind of positions are exist, between which Putin (and Medvedev) must decide.

The choice of treason

If Russia will decide not to enter the conflict (it's a position of pro-american effect's agents at the upper levels of power) and content herself with weeping and protests apropos of disgraceful things, which the Georgians do, and humanitarian catastrophe - that will be a choice, fatal choice. It will mean, that Russia gives up her sovereignty.

In fact, this kind of position is as good as to consider Putin's eight-year term like a bluff and idle PR. Russia will return to 90s - late 80s in a moment. Russian and outside observes will realize at once, that Russia is absolutely helpless and it's possible not to take her into consideration. As a result, it's easy to predict the next level of Russia disintegration - beginning with the Caucasus and go on according to plan. Besides our partners in CIS will finally turn away from us because they realize who is a master. Washington will be a master.

Russia loses not only a status of the Great Power but also a status of the regional Power. This choice is equivalent to State coup or “orange” revolution, this time - in Russia. Putin's retiring from the post of prime minister and disintegration of state organization will be the next step in this way.

The choice of faith

What is the alternative? Here it is: declare the independence of South Ossetia (and Abkhazia), and the following step - annex them to Russia; insert 58th Army; give an order to strike all air targets above South Ossetia from the direction of our BMD on the territory of Abkhazia; wage war against Georgia right up to the capture of Tbilisi, and then - dictate our own terms.

As a result, Russia quarrels violently with USA and West Europe. It's a beginning of a long distance blockade and isolation from the direction of USA. At the same time Russia proves not only the status of the regional Power but also the status of the Great Power; Russia proves her possibility to send a challenge to USA and unidirectional world. It means, that Russia returns on the world arena, returns in a history.

It is not a choice for every responsible Russian - “Tanks to Tbilisi!” - this is a voice of our national history.

On the eve of the War (Russia is at hazard)

It's possible to compare today's situation with the 22nd of June. We have been attacked without a declaration of war, even with a “declaration of peace”. It's possible to avoid the war, but only by capitulation to the enemy. South Ossetia is the part of Russia by civilized and political option. If we give away South Ossetia, anyone can take away from us what ever he wants.

It's the same situation like it was in 1991-1993. At that time Russia also was facing a radical choice.

In August 1991 the fate of the USSR was decided. State Committee of Extraordinary Situation has not resisted, the USSR has fallen to pieces, american “marionettes” has come to power.

In 1993 the Government tried to bring Russia back to the sovereign policy. It was obvious, that Eltsin and reformers gave away our country to Americans. Eltsin has shot the Government, and our state has gone on the next level of disintegration - it has developed into a separatism on the Northern Caucasia (Chechnya, Dagestan, etc.).

In 1999 Putin won back, but he had not made a final decision.

The Russians have made their choice, elite - have not yet

Nowadays this is a situation: Russia either exists and becomes stronger or turns out to be a mirage.

It is not a choice for every responsible Russian - “Tanks to Tbilisi!” - this is a voice of our national history.

Alack! Our elite is still irresponsible. The nets of effect's agents from the West is everywhere in russian authority. Putin has not been doing serious purges. It can adversely effect Russia. So, now we are going to recognize, who is worth anything.

Alexandr Dugin

38 posted on 08/14/2008 9:56:31 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: Lijahsbubbe

But they are safe, they are NATO.


39 posted on 08/14/2008 9:57:16 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: MarMema
But they are safe, they are NATO.

Are they safe? I dunno.

40 posted on 08/14/2008 10:01:00 PM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: Lijahsbubbe
Well that is a thought, but my thinking was that if you are in NATO, you are guaranteed allies and troops if Russia comes after you.

Maybe these guys would just join up for fun however.

41 posted on 08/14/2008 10:02:18 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: TigersEye

Follow the money, follow the oil.

One of the advantages of being a debtor nation is that we can seize Russian assets or the assets of Russian citizens and be fairly (somewhat) immune to the consequences.

I wouldn’t want to be invested in anybody’s “Russia Fund” right now though.

I’d like to believe Russia would back off if the cost doesn’t justify the investment but at this point Putin has too much pride at stake.


42 posted on 08/14/2008 10:05:58 PM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF ("Gun Control" is not about the guns. "Illegal Immigration" is not about the immigration)
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To: MarMema

My reply was sincere. I just wonder if anything (NATO) means too much of anything these days.

If nobody wants to confront Russia now, would they be any more willing to over a NATO country (besides sanctions, meetings, blah blah)? Sorry if that sounds dumb, I really don’t know.


43 posted on 08/14/2008 10:10:47 PM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: Lijahsbubbe

It does seem like anything goes these days. I don’t know politics well myself. Just Georgians.


44 posted on 08/14/2008 10:12:14 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: MarMema

There are a lot of things that we don’t know about the region in the US, like why there is a conflict between Georgians and Armenians.

From our perspective you are both Orthodox Caucasian Christians from a region that was overrun by the Turks. It seems you should be natural allies.

If there is an Armenian region within the borders Georgia it seems to me that the people there should be granted equal rights under the Georgian constitution and Armenia should relinquish claims to the region - case closed. It looks like the small problems are getting in the way of solutions to the large problem - the Russians.


45 posted on 08/14/2008 10:34:42 PM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF ("Gun Control" is not about the guns. "Illegal Immigration" is not about the immigration)
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To: DAVEY CROCKETT; Calpernia; Velveeta

Ping.


46 posted on 08/14/2008 10:35:53 PM PDT by nw_arizona_granny ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1990507/posts?page=451 SURVIVAL, RECIPES, GARDENS, & INFO)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
I'd say we need to hit them with every non-military move we can now. Fast track the BM silos and backup mil hardware Poland wants in exchange for putting them there. Put the military base there that they want. The same for all the other nations that want our presence. Fast track NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia. Deal with whatever deficiencies those nations have after bringing them in. Do it before they get squeamish.

Krauthammer had several good ideas. Instead of expelling Russia from the G8 the other seven just withdraw then turn around and reform without Russia. Drop any idea of letting them in the WTO.

Since we would like to slap them down in Georgia but don't want to go that far why hold back on non-violent retaliation? Just cut them off from any commerce or cooperation we have a say in. Bleed them white as they say and then see how Pooty's pride is holding up.

47 posted on 08/14/2008 10:41:37 PM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin '36 ... Olympics for murdering regimes. ... Beijing '08)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF; MarMema

Try http://80.94.226.241 — that’s the link without the /books/ at the end; that goes to MIPP International, booksellers.

Is that the one you get to, MM?


48 posted on 08/14/2008 11:16:06 PM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
Well you see the Georgians and Azerbaijans get along tremendously well and have for a long time. But the Armenians have a separatist movement/area in Azerbaijan and Georgia has always sided with Azerbaijan on this issue.

Armenia and Azerbaijan are not happy campers together.

49 posted on 08/14/2008 11:36:59 PM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: InABunkerUnderSF
Here is a video (in Russian) that shows the Russian Military base in Gyumri Armenia. That base is located in northwest Armenia near the Turkish border. No doubt the bases purpose for Armenia is to protect Armenia from Turkey. Video taken during winter and shows some of the equipment there. Base geographically is located southwest of Tbilisi. If the Russians in Georgia want to hook up with this base, they could bypass Tbilisi to do that. Just travel down the Western roads near the Turkish border.

Russian 102nd Military Base Gyumri Armenia Video Link

50 posted on 08/14/2008 11:38:04 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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