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Silence on Georgia
Toledo Blade ^ | August 16, 2008 | Jack Kelly

Posted on 08/16/2008 7:08:16 AM PDT by elhombrelibre

DID YOU see the huge crowd outside the Russian embassy protesting the war in Georgia?

Neither did I. Now that we have a genuine war of aggression, the silence on the Left is deafening.

"You might think, at a moment such as this, that the moral calculus would be pretty well understood," the Washington Post said in an editorial Thursday. "Russian troops are occupying large swaths of Georgia, a tiny neighboring country, and sacking its military bases. Russian jets have roamed the Georgian skies, bombing civilian and military targets alike. Russian ships are said to be controlling Georgia's port of Poti, while militia under Russia's control reportedly massacre Georgian civilians. Yet in Washington, the foreign policy sophisticates cluck and murmur that, after all, the Georgians should have known better than to chart an independent course."

(Excerpt) Read more at toledoblade.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: georgia; russiantroops
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1 posted on 08/16/2008 7:08:16 AM PDT by elhombrelibre
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To: jveritas; FARS; Ernest_at_the_Beach; knighthawk; Marine_Uncle; SandRat; Steel Wolf; CAP; ...

“Where have all the flowers gone?” ping


2 posted on 08/16/2008 7:13:34 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: elhombrelibre

Awesome post, thank you for posting.


3 posted on 08/16/2008 7:14:17 AM PDT by Chgogal (Voting "Present" 130 times might be a sign of a smart politician. It is not a sign of a good leader.)
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To: elhombrelibre

They only protest when people are being freed from bloodthirsty dictators not when their being conquered by them. Commie killing fields are justifiable if they lead to their utopia.

Pray for W and Our Troops


4 posted on 08/16/2008 7:15:24 AM PDT by bray (Drill Congress!!)
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To: elhombrelibre

Now that I think about it, it doesn’t have to be the left outside the Russian embassy protesting. Why is there no one?
susie


5 posted on 08/16/2008 7:16:07 AM PDT by brytlea (Obama--Jimmy Carter's Second Term)
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To: Chgogal

You bet.


6 posted on 08/16/2008 7:20:18 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: brytlea
It’ a good point. Maybe it's time that centrists and conservatives organize protests to show support for Georgia.
7 posted on 08/16/2008 7:21:58 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: elhombrelibre

where is Rodney King when we need him...”Why can’t we all just get along?”

After reprinting the Kremlin talking points for weeks, the western journalists are now shocked by what they see. Maroons!


8 posted on 08/16/2008 7:22:27 AM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (GOD BLESS GEORGIA! SAVE GEORGIA, OUR ALLY, NOW!)
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To: elhombrelibre
I wish I had a dollar for every time my Mom warned me not to take a situation where I was completely in the right and my adversary completely in the wrong and do something foolish that would transform it to one where there was right and wrong on both sides. That's what Georgia has done in this case. They had a legitimate gripe and handles correctly could have put Russia on the hot seat. But instead they went it on their own and now it's a much more complicated matter where both sides have points.

In any case, Russia has no business in Georgia and whatever it takes to get them out of there is warranted.

Just IMHO!

9 posted on 08/16/2008 7:22:53 AM PDT by jwparkerjr
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To: elhombrelibre

The only thing I’ve heard from liberals is that this is Bush’s fault. He invaded Iraq, see, and Putin’s just doing “monkey see, monkey do.” All Bush’s fault.


10 posted on 08/16/2008 7:23:12 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: elhombrelibre; Grammy; Flycatcher; george76; SJackson; Diana in Wisconsin; proud_yank; ...

I asked this same question in a post yesterday.

Remember all the protests across the globe when we went into Iraq?

And where, or where, did all those ‘human shields’ go, the ones that went to Iraq and chained themselves in front of buildings?

Perhaps they don’t want to hold a sit-in in front of a Russian tank.

Maybe the D.C. chapter can approach some of the Code Pinkos there and recruit them as “human shields” for this assignment.

How can I contact Sean Penn and the many other activists who oppose aggression of any sort? Michael Moore, Medea Benjiman (sp), Cindy Sheehan, you ready to march for peace?


11 posted on 08/16/2008 7:26:28 AM PDT by girlangler (Fish Fear Me)
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To: A_perfect_lady
Liberals don't believe in personal responsibility for anyone. They've one demon in the world, Bush. Outside of that they're willing to excuse anyone else for nearly anything.
12 posted on 08/16/2008 7:27:36 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: brytlea

To be honest, I don’t feel like I know enough about the situation to pick a side. First I hear Russian has attacked a small neighboring country. I think “Okay, Russia bad.” Then I hear that Georgia was bombing a province (South Ossetia?) that was trying to return to Russia. I think “Wait. Georgia bad.” Then I hear that South Ossetia was provoking Georgia. I think “South Ossetia bad.” Then I wonder if the South Ossetians really want to be part of Russia again or if a well-funded minority (funded by Russia, of course) is trying to force this issue. If so, I’m back to “Russia bad.” And I know already I don’t like Putin... but I just feel like I don’t know the whole story. I’m not even sure that which I just listed above is right.


13 posted on 08/16/2008 7:29:08 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: jwparkerjr
Georgia's mistake was to take the bait. When the Russian proxies attacked them, they responded with missiles and artillery. Instead, they should have used a more covert means, say, snipers, to eliminate the enemies. Now, if Russia fails to leave, the Georgians should pursue an asymmetrical war against them. Roadside bombs, assassinations, and other types of attacks like that on Russian soldiers who are busy looting, robbing banks, and otherwise showing their true colors, are what I'd recommend. Let plenty of these Russian bullies come home in body bags so that Putin's drive to return the Soviet empire is put in the proper context for all of the Russian people to see. Let them see the cost of empire and subjugation.
14 posted on 08/16/2008 7:31:58 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: girlangler

Sean Penn should bring his paper cup and get into a small boat and go into the Black Sea...remember his brilliant help in Katrina?

so much for the media moguls, the celebs, code Pink and the others who want Nations to “just leave these countries alone and not invade>?” F...g hypocrites.

I would love to take Fonda and Sarandon over there now and while we are at it, maybe Obama with his vast oratory could go to Moscow and give a speech at a concert hall on ‘peace and diplomcacy’.


15 posted on 08/16/2008 7:32:35 AM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (GOD BLESS GEORGIA! SAVE GEORGIA, OUR ALLY, NOW!)
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To: elhombrelibre

That would be a sight to see. Heck, if I lived near the Russian Embassy (and maybe even the UN) I would show up!
susie


16 posted on 08/16/2008 7:33:29 AM PDT by brytlea (Obama--Jimmy Carter's Second Term)
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To: girlangler

It seems they’ve all gone fishin’, girlangler.


17 posted on 08/16/2008 7:35:16 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: A_perfect_lady

I agree, it’s been a muddle, but that’s exactly how the liberal press and Russian apologists want you to see it. Georgia is a democracy, Russia is not. That’s pretty much what I need to know (it helps me decide whose more likely to be lying).
susie


18 posted on 08/16/2008 7:36:35 AM PDT by brytlea (Obama--Jimmy Carter's Second Term)
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To: elhombrelibre

sounds good...but what is really needed is NATO to roll in with massive troops and push back the russians.


19 posted on 08/16/2008 7:39:10 AM PDT by fabian
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To: A_perfect_lady
Check this one out.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1262550/posts?page=46

20 posted on 08/16/2008 7:39:10 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: fabian

Sssshhhhh, you’ll upset the Buchananites talking like that. Then they might start crying.


21 posted on 08/16/2008 7:40:24 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: A_perfect_lady

“The Left” should still be protesting the Russian invasion and brutal occupation. After all Russia is no better than the US, for that matter even more cowardly considering how tiny Georgia is. It is there where their logic falls apart. Iraq at least had a large Military to speak of with a population of 25 million (not to mention Iraq’s defiance of the UN’s 17 resolutions). Georgia is so tiny, you and I can walk across it in about three days. Their inaction and lack of coherent criticism speaks volumes as to where their true loyalties lie. And yes I am saying the American Left is unpatriotic and at the very least a useful tool at the whim our enemies.


22 posted on 08/16/2008 7:43:53 AM PDT by Chgogal (Voting "Present" 130 times might be a sign of a smart politician. It is not a sign of a good leader.)
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To: brytlea

“A democracy” is not a good buzz word for me, though. I keep thinking of how many dictators leftists support on the grounds that he was originally “democratically elected” (they even said this about Saddam sometimes, and Yassar Arafat, and Allende, and Chavez...)


23 posted on 08/16/2008 7:53:21 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: elhombrelibre

I think the basic calculation here is: The Left has observed that (R)s and conservatives don’t seem to like this action on Russia’s part. Therefore, the Left thinks it’s fine. I really don’t think it’s any more sophisticated than that.


24 posted on 08/16/2008 7:53:25 AM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: Chgogal

I notice the Left only criticizes America and Israel.


25 posted on 08/16/2008 7:54:09 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: bray

Except of course that the Russians aren’t Commies any longer.

A more accurate statement, which also largely explains why Commies were supported by Americans liberals for so long, goes something like this.

“We oppose any use of military force by the US or in its interest. We are either indifferent to or in favor of military (or other) force when used against the US or its interests.”

Most of them were never really committed commies. They were just opposed to Western Civilization/United States. Communism was the big opponent for decades, so they were in favor of it (for others).

Now that Communism has gone bye/bye, they have transferred their support to multi-culti, global warmism, etc. Anything as long as it’s anti-American. Most of them can’t really bring themselves to support Islamism, but they are active in opposition to any attempt to fight it.


26 posted on 08/16/2008 7:56:49 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (qui)
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To: A_perfect_lady

“I notice the Left only criticizes America and Israel.”

Yes, and that is why the American Left is unpatriotic and a useful tool in the hands of or enemies.


27 posted on 08/16/2008 7:57:37 AM PDT by Chgogal (Voting "Present" 130 times might be a sign of a smart politician. It is not a sign of a good leader.)
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To: A_perfect_lady

Then you should probably go out and read about Georgia.
susie


28 posted on 08/16/2008 7:59:24 AM PDT by brytlea (Obama--Jimmy Carter's Second Term)
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To: elhombrelibre
Some form of rationalization or equivalence will protect the gentle minds on the Left. They are good at it. In the wake of WWII and the fall of Eastern Europe to the Soviets, university professors would talk about the Soviets need for friendly neighbors, a zone of influence protecting their borders. The along came Cuba and Marxist movements in Latin America and the good professors began talking about indigenous Marxist movements. The Cambodian and Vietnamese genocide was excused by the right to self determination in emerging cultures. Now we are back to the zone of influence argument.
29 posted on 08/16/2008 8:00:54 AM PDT by JimSEA (just another liberal-bashing fearmonger)
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To: JimSEA
Oh, I agree. They'll shift to any argument as long as it hurts the US or one of its allies.
30 posted on 08/16/2008 8:03:41 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: elhombrelibre
American must realize that we can defeat the Muslim terrorists that attacked this nation or we can withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan and resume the effort to contain Putin and Russia. We can not do both. We made a big mistake when after 9-11, we did not join with the Russians to rid both of our countries and the world of Muslim extremists. Russians were suffering with one attack after another from Muslim terrorists based in Chechnya in Moscow and elsewhere. Every effort by the Russians to crack down on these terrorists were met with sharp attacks from the West. They were rightfully frustrated with our hypocrisy. To Russians it appeared that the West was quite alright with terrorism directed against Russia but asked for cooperation from Russia in our battle against terrorism. The idiots in our State Dept and the media whose sympathies lay with Muslim terrorists within Russia defeated any alliance that could have been made with the Russians.

The war against Muslim terrorism is worldwide and if not resolved favorably will destroy the West. While I do not wish the Russians to move against the former portions of the USSR to re-include them in greater Russia, we could leave that battle until we rid ourselves of Muslim extremism inflicting all the world.

31 posted on 08/16/2008 8:08:33 AM PDT by brydic1
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To: brydic1
However, Putin seems to be working with the Moslem crazies, at least he is with Iran. He sells them weapons. They give them to Hezbollah. He sells them uranium. Then he sells them surface-to-air missiles to make them better able to defend their nuclear weapons processing facilities. In many ways, Putin is a defacto ally of Iran. He may be willing to squash the Chechens, but he's more than willing to use Iran. In addition, he sells weapons to Syria and Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. I think we need to hold him accountable for all of the mischief he's been up to and not pretend that we don't know it.
32 posted on 08/16/2008 8:13:44 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: elhombrelibre

I don’t think that the left has quite realized that Russia is no longer leftist, but old-style tyrannical. But then again, the left has long tended to support tyrants as well, unless they are opposed by local leftists.


33 posted on 08/16/2008 8:14:24 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: elhombrelibre
Why would he not seek some kind of alliance with Iran in order to contain Muslim terrorists in Russia which Iran had been financing. This financing has since been withdrawn most likely in response to Russian support for Iran. I believe the West could well have been the recipient of their cooperation if they had come with total and unreserved support for Russia's attack on domestic terrorism. Unfortunately, we have burned the bridges to Russian cooperation in any battle against world Muslim terrorism. Russia by supporting Iran and the Palestinians has obtained almost immunity from further funding of terrorism by the rogue Muslim states. They can sit back and watch as the West wears itself out in attacks against the Muslim terrorists and then move against the West and possibly the terrorists as well if they re-institute their support of terrorism in Russia.
34 posted on 08/16/2008 8:30:44 AM PDT by brydic1
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To: elhombrelibre
Substitute "Georgia." The more things change...


35 posted on 08/16/2008 8:33:45 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee

How true. And the Soviets had their apologists then too, as they do today.


36 posted on 08/16/2008 8:43:13 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Bush just made a statement from Crawford that the world must recognize Georgia's sovereignty over Ossetia and Abkhanzia because it has been recognized for many years. The sovereignty of states over their constituent parts can not be breached. What hypocrisy after the world stripped Kosovo from Serbia with Bush's enthusiastic support.
37 posted on 08/16/2008 8:45:59 AM PDT by brydic1
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To: brytlea
Then you should probably go out and read about Georgia.

Thank you for your help.

38 posted on 08/16/2008 8:47:36 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: elhombrelibre

Exactly so. “Fellow travelers,” secret communists, and “useful idiots” are still with us.


39 posted on 08/16/2008 8:48:22 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: brydic1

Very true. The roots of the Georgia crisis lay in Kosovo.


40 posted on 08/16/2008 8:49:13 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee

Don’t forget the Charles Lindbergh wannabe types too.


41 posted on 08/16/2008 8:50:21 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Obama: vain, mercurial, inexperienced, aloof, condescending, doctrinaire, and Reverend Wright's son.)
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To: elhombrelibre

Plus tens of thousands of Russian emigrees to the USA over the last 20 years, with seriously doubtful devotion to freedom.

Most Russians love a “strong Czar,” it’s in their national makeup.

Even many of those who fled Soviet Communism (or said that they did) support these thuggish Russian actions.


42 posted on 08/16/2008 8:55:03 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee

Yes, and who was it that looked into Putin’s eyes and saw a decent honorable almost angelic persona. Bush has been a miserable judge of character as well as a judge of associates in the White House, i.e., Gonzales, Myers, McClellan.


43 posted on 08/16/2008 8:57:50 AM PDT by brydic1
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To: brydic1

You’re not kidding.


44 posted on 08/16/2008 8:58:52 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: girlangler

Thanks for the ping, Girl.

I think a few bus loads of the Hollywood elite antiwar nutjobs should be added to those you named and given free transportation to Georgia to assist in making sure the Russians live up to their cease fire and exit from Georgia.

Surely those Russians that are looting and killing civilians would listen to them, wouldn’t they?


45 posted on 08/16/2008 9:06:26 AM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: elhombrelibre

There was a decent protest in Montreal.


46 posted on 08/16/2008 10:22:59 AM PDT by MarMema (Tavisuplebas dideba!)
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To: brydic1

Take that argument one step further. Is Tibet now an integral part of China? Is Taiwan independent of China because it has not been an integral part of the mainland for many years?

In truth, both Ossetia and Abkhazia were intentionally put into Georgia by Stalin to divide and control them. The Ossetians have a claim for reunification, just as Germany did.

Abkhazia is far more complicated, as it was both a part of Georgia and an autonomous republic under Stalin. One of Stalin’s secret police chiefs, Beria, encouraged Georgians to move there. Later, the Armenians and their church encouraged Armenia emigration there.

So the largest minority is not Georgian, but Armenian.

The devil is in the details of autonomy, however. Since 1991, both areas have split off from Georgia. But all this does is make “de jure” what had been “de facto” for many years. The Georgians didn’t rule them before, and they don’t want the Georgians to rule them now.

I will also add that there are enclaves like this all over the region, with lots of the same and similar problems. Chunks of other countries that are occupied by large number of people from adjacent countries.

But unlike the situation in California, where there are just “a lot of Mexicans”, the divisions are far deeper. Had California been an independent place not under US federal law for many decades, or even worse, under Mexican law, even if not policed by the government of Mexico, we would find ourselves in a similar situation.

That is, if the US government hadn’t ruled California since WWII, the vast majority of the people who lived there were Mexicans, and they used Mexican law and spoke Spanish, what right would the US government to now say they want to rule California?


47 posted on 08/16/2008 10:50:08 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

As for the Mexican populated counties along the US-Mexico border, it would be like lifting a burder to US taxpayers if they somehow demanded and were awarded their independence or integration with Mexico. I would willingly give money to their cause provided, of course, we put a long moat filled with crocs along their north border.


48 posted on 08/16/2008 11:05:17 AM PDT by brydic1
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To: elhombrelibre

Anyone surprised that the “peace” crowd doesn’t care about Russian aggression is a fool. The “peace” crowd is about anti-Amercanism, anti-capitalism, and pro-communism, not peace. Why would they protest the resurgence of their idols/masters, the KGB and authoritarian Russia?


49 posted on 08/16/2008 11:54:58 AM PDT by piytar
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To: A_perfect_lady

Your welcome, I know it wasn’t much help, but anything I tell you would be only what I’ve heard. You just need to go out and read as much as you can and make up your own mind.

susie


50 posted on 08/16/2008 1:06:39 PM PDT by brytlea (Obama--Jimmy Carter's Second Term)
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