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Rick Warren: Vanity

Posted on 08/16/2008 10:31:29 AM PDT by Chong

I received an email from my pastor about Rick Warren's interview with "those two" on CNN and also received another email from an old timer freeper FRiend warning me about Rick Warren.

Please share with me what you know about this man and what he stands for (without in-fighting if you can? 'Cause you are not going to change anybody's mind by arguing?)

Gotta go run some errands but will check back in when I come back, so don't think I am being rude by not replying right away.

Thanks.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: mccain; obama; rickwarren; saddleback
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1 posted on 08/16/2008 10:31:30 AM PDT by Chong
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To: Chong; Gamecock; P-Marlowe; Alex Murphy; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg

There are volumes of threads in the Religion Forum about Rick Warren. Suggest you take a peak over there. Always wise on FR to do a subject search first. I’m just sayin’...

Pinging a few folks who might be able to point you to the current discussion.


2 posted on 08/16/2008 10:33:55 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (http://dontgomovement.com/)
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To: Corin Stormhands

Thanks.


3 posted on 08/16/2008 10:35:02 AM PDT by Chong (IN GOD WE TRUST)
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To: Chong

When I come back, I will do some search. Didn’t realize that there were discussion threads about him here. Been too busy to come here as often as I used to.


4 posted on 08/16/2008 10:37:20 AM PDT by Chong (IN GOD WE TRUST)
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To: Chong

I posted the following a short time ago on another thread.

Lets see. Rick Warren has sold 35 million copies of his book “The Purpose Driven Life”. Good for him. He has an Email newsletter that is sent to 180,000 religious leaders, decimating his thoughts on a multitude of topics and subjects matter. Okay. Warren is also well known for advancing certain issues beyond traditional religious ministries. Hmmm.

Sounds like progressive preaching with a purpose driven agenda, front and center.

What I find troubling, is how can Rick Warren invite someone to his ministry, who professes to be a man of faith, yet condones and promotes abortion on demand. Its a total disconnect for me. Btw, this will be Obama’s second visit to see Warren.


5 posted on 08/16/2008 10:39:41 AM PDT by Reagan Man ( McCain Wants My Vote --- this conservative is ambivalent to the odious Johnny Mac)
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To: Chong
Warren says he is going to get "Faith in Public Life" to help him come up with the questions to ask McCain and Obama. Who is "Faith in Public Life"?From the link:

Jim Wallis is America's foremost spokesman for the Religious Left. Bob Edgar, of course, is the former head of the National Council of Churches. Catherine Pinkerton sits on the Obama campaign's Catholic Advisory Council. Anybody see a pattern here? Just to drive the point home, consider the boards of directors and advisors of the FLP, which include such luminaries as: Story Continues Below Ad ↓

*Board of Directors president Meg Rlley, Director of Advocacy and Witness for the Unitarian-Universalist Fellowship.

*Elizabeth Letzler, member of the PCUSA's Mission Responsibility Through Investment committee and the Israel-Palestine Network (i.e., an Israel divestment proponent). She's also been "deeply involved" with FaithAmerica.org, an NCC outfit.

*Nazir Khaja, a Muslim leader who also sits on the board of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Rights.

*Fred Rotondaro, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, run by Bill Clinton's ex-chief of staff John Podesta, which is basically a Democratic Party research organization.

*Susan Thistlethwaite, president of the UCC's Chicago Seminary, well-known to readers of this blog for her contributions to the Washington Post's "On Faith" column.

*Jim Winkler, General Secretary of the United Methodist Church's General Board of Church and Society, who also sits on the board (with Communist Party USA leader Judith LeBlanc) of the US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation.

So don't really expect serious questions related to faith and Christianity. These people are more interested in gay rights and abortion rights than evangelism.

—Ken Shepherd is Managing Editor of NewsBusters

6 posted on 08/16/2008 10:47:45 AM PDT by Snurple
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To: Reagan Man
I have also been wondering similar thoughts in recent months. Are there two Rick Warrens ? “The Purpose Driven Life” seems real {genuine} enough. I thought it was a helpful study.

Another explanation could be that the guy has changed, or that media reports on his activities are less than accurate. The latter is probably least likely.

7 posted on 08/16/2008 10:49:09 AM PDT by labette ( Humble student of Thinkology)
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To: Chong

Christ, which will likely make him unpopular with just about everyone depending on the issue.


8 posted on 08/16/2008 10:50:27 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: labette
Another explanation could be that the guy has changed, or that media reports on his activities are less than accurate. The latter is probably least likely.

That's a first.....

9 posted on 08/16/2008 10:51:44 AM PDT by Osage Orange (Congress would steal the nickels off a dead man's eye's...............)
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To: labette

I read (sorry, no source) that he will be asking an abortion-related question of McCain/Obama today after all.

Who knows the nature of the question? I guess we’ll see.

It seems to me he wants to be the next “go-to” guy for “evangelical” opinion. That’s just my impression.

I don’t have a problem with a pastor meeting with Obama, or Achmedinijad, or Charles Manson for that matter. However I don’t like what Rick Warren is doing today, as it seems to be an endorsement, a sort of a “both guys are the same, both are acceptable” message.


10 posted on 08/16/2008 10:52:36 AM PDT by Marie2 (Everything the left does has the effect and intent of destroying the traditional family.)
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To: Reagan Man
........decimating his thoughts on a multitude of topics and subjects matter.

Totally wiped them out?

11 posted on 08/16/2008 10:54:50 AM PDT by Osage Orange (Congress would steal the nickels off a dead man's eye's...............)
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To: Chong
Rick Warren—a self-promoting purveyor of spiritual snakeoil.
12 posted on 08/16/2008 10:56:04 AM PDT by attiladhun2 (Obama is the anti-Reagan, instead of opposing the world's tyrants, he wants to embrace them)
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To: Reagan Man
I doubt that Warrens thoughts have ever been decimated, though they no doubt have been widely disseminated (darn spellchecker, eh?).

Anyway I don't see a problem with him inviting both candidates to his church to discuss issues, religious or otherwise. What better way than to expose Obama’s real views than an hour of unscripted Q&A before people who really do take these issues seriously, instead of the usual perfunctory interviews and scripted answers from the drive by media and staged debates?

13 posted on 08/16/2008 10:56:17 AM PDT by Hugin (Mecca delenda est!)
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To: Chong; Gamecock; P-Marlowe; Alex Murphy; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; Corin Stormhands; blue-duncan; ...
Cause you are not going to change anybody's mind by arguing?

So you change people's minds by... what? ...exactly?

Agreeing with them?

14 posted on 08/16/2008 10:56:47 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Marie2

Bingo.


15 posted on 08/16/2008 10:58:51 AM PDT by labette ( Humble student of Thinkology)
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To: Reagan Man
Guys like Rick Warren and Olsten are making the most radical pro-abort Democrats acceptable to evangelicals. I have no use for his purpose-driven life agenda, which is really theological liberalism dressed-up for the post-modern world. I prefer the novel approach of studying scripture, doctrine, and apologetics for myself
16 posted on 08/16/2008 11:01:26 AM PDT by attiladhun2 (Obama is the anti-Reagan, instead of opposing the world's tyrants, he wants to embrace them)
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To: Chong

What is most clear about Rick Warren, and paramount to what you need to know about him is: Rick Warren is ALL about Rick Warren.


17 posted on 08/16/2008 11:05:17 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Marie2
It seems to me he wants to be the next “go-to” guy for “evangelical” opinion.

Billy Graham is getting old, ya' know.

18 posted on 08/16/2008 11:07:30 AM PDT by BipolarBob (I overinflate my tires, so the gas fairy will fill my tank.)
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To: Snurple

A am no big fan of Warren, but:

Warren did email religious leaders, the ones I know of are not lefties by any stretch of imagination, asking them to submit questions he would consider using tonight.

One other thing, Warren is a Christian and believes in the same triune God Christians on FR believe in, regardless of those with whom he may associate and minister. Christians need to stop beating up each other.


19 posted on 08/16/2008 11:15:01 AM PDT by elpadre (nation)
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To: Hugin

Oops. Spellchecker did its job. We all have a brain fart now and then.

I don’t see a problem having both candidates sit down and discuss any issues. That part of politics is good. However, inviting a pro-abortion candidate to his house of worship, isn’t an appealing aspect of Warren’s faith. Not something I’d do.

My point was, I see Warren as a new age religious leader, with a progressive ministry based on a liberal agenda. Many people have compared him to Billy Graham and Robert Schuller. I don’t think he measures up to either man.


20 posted on 08/16/2008 11:15:27 AM PDT by Reagan Man ( McCain Wants My Vote --- this conservative is ambivalent to the odious Johnny Mac)
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To: attiladhun2

Well said.


21 posted on 08/16/2008 11:17:00 AM PDT by Reagan Man ( McCain Wants My Vote --- this conservative is ambivalent to the odious Johnny Mac)
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To: Wuli

“Rick Warren is ALL about Rick Warren.”

that’s true of modern leaders of religion and politics, and most all phases of public life.

Show me a list of humble leaders - the nation or the world!

GWB would most likely make the humble list, but who else??


22 posted on 08/16/2008 11:20:01 AM PDT by elpadre (nation)
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To: Osage Orange

Could be a Freudian slip. ;^)


23 posted on 08/16/2008 11:23:09 AM PDT by Reagan Man ( McCain Wants My Vote --- this conservative is ambivalent to the odious Johnny Mac)
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To: Reagan Man
"What I find troubling, is how can Rick Warren invite someone to his ministry, who professes to be a man of faith, yet condones and promotes abortion on demand. Its a total disconnect for me. Btw, this will be Obama’s second visit to see Warren.

Supposedly tonight will limited to "values" issues, so with Obama's astonishing "born-alive abortion" support, if Warren is the least bit consistent, he had better push Obama very hard on this.

Obama is far and away the most radical pro-abortion extremist that has ever run for the Presidency. He has no compassion for kids (at least not small ones).

24 posted on 08/16/2008 11:23:38 AM PDT by cookcounty (Why does Obama constantly appoint screwballs? It's about "judgement, "right?)
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To: Reagan Man
“....However, inviting a pro-abortion candidate to his house of worship, isn’t an appealing aspect of Warren’s faith....”

Jesus said we are to be in the world, not of the world.”

I have people in my house who hold ideals and opinions I don't agree with, often. Every once in a while they will see the light.

25 posted on 08/16/2008 11:24:07 AM PDT by elpadre (nation)
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To: Snurple
This tells me a lot about what is really going on.

*Board of Directors president Meg Rlley, Director of Advocacy and Witness for the Unitarian-Universalist Fellowship.

*Elizabeth Letzler, member of the PCUSA's Mission Responsibility Through Investment committee and the Israel-Palestine Network (i.e., an Israel divestment proponent). She's also been "deeply involved" with FaithAmerica.org, an NCC outfit.

*Nazir Khaja, a Muslim leader who also sits on the board of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Rights.

*Fred Rotondaro, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, run by Bill Clinton's ex-chief of staff John Podesta, which is basically a Democratic Party research organization.

*Susan Thistlethwaite, president of the UCC's Chicago Seminary, well-known to readers of this blog for her contributions to the Washington Post's "On Faith" column.

*Jim Winkler, General Secretary of the United Methodist Church's General Board of Church and Society, who also sits on the board (with Communist Party USA leader Judith LeBlanc) of the US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation.



26 posted on 08/16/2008 11:26:19 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: elpadre
that’s true of modern leaders of religion and politics, and most all phases of public life. Show me a list of humble leaders - the nation or the world! GWB would most likely make the humble list, but who else??

Pope Benedict XVI

27 posted on 08/16/2008 11:29:01 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurtureĀ™)
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To: Chong
The format is Warren, and Warren alone, asking questions of Obama for one hour, then McCain for one hour.
28 posted on 08/16/2008 11:29:35 AM PDT by cookcounty (Why does Obama constantly appoint screwballs? It's about "judgement, "right?)
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To: attiladhun2
Guys like Rick Warren and Olsten are making the most radical pro-abort Democrats acceptable to evangelicals. I have no use for his purpose-driven life agenda, which is really theological liberalism dressed-up for the post-modern world. I prefer the novel approach of studying scripture, doctrine, and apologetics for myself

It is unfair to wrap Warren and Olsteen in the same wrapper. Joel stays neutral on most controversial issues, while Warren is a liberal activist on issues such as gay rights and abortion. You can criticize Joel for not taking stances on social issues, but he is far from what Warren does, which is to actually promote such behavior.

29 posted on 08/16/2008 11:30:37 AM PDT by Always Right (Obama: more arrogant than Bill Clinton, more naive than Jimmy Carter, and more liberal than LBJ.)
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To: Chong

You can do some reading here:

http://www.crossroad.to/index.html

And you can read an online book that I think is a must-read for any Christian here:

http://www.reinventingjesuschrist.com/

I would also recommend the books “Faith Undone” and “Deceived on Purpose,” and there are also other good books out there.

Essentially, Rick Warren was mentored by Robert Schuller, who is a new age spirituality proponent, and Warren has many connections to other new agers who call themselves “Christians.”


30 posted on 08/16/2008 11:38:23 AM PDT by Abigail Adams
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To: elpadre
What I do not like about Warren and others like him, is twofold:

1) They preach a disproportionate Gospel. What I mean is, they preach almost exclusively about the love of Christ, how he forgives, how he can meet your needs, how he can heal your wounds, how great he can make you feel, etc. I ABSOLUTELY don NOT disagree with any of those things, BUT they never seem to get around to preaching about our sinfulness and Jesus reaction to that. Jesus talked about hell 3x as much as he did about heaven. He taught about becoming holy and the consequences of sin and living a sinful life. Warren and others NEVER seem to get around to those points.

2) This is my MAIN objection to Warren and those in the ‘Emerging Church’ movement. It appears to me that they approach their relationship with God, and thus teach others the same, from the point of what God can do for them. It is all about how you can benefit from a relationship with God. Almost like the reason for entering into a relationship with him is for all the ‘goodies’. This is SO wrong. We are placed here to SERVE God. To bring Him glory. Not the other way around. All of the examples in the bible are of men who served God to further His kingdom, not to make their life on earth a more pleasant experience. Warren seems to miss that quite often.

31 posted on 08/16/2008 11:38:33 AM PDT by Anti-Hillary (Yo Barry, IF FOR 20 YEARS YOU STAY IN THE PEW, IT'S BECAUSE YOU SHARE THE VIEW!!!!!)
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To: Chong; Corin Stormhands; P-Marlowe

Rick Warren was a church growth guru who did well at that. He then decided to inject himself into politics and has taken what appears to be a Sojourners/Jim Wallis type position....that is, a pacifist, eco-conscious, internationalist.

On another thread, I’ve read that he’s had tonight’s questions prepared by a left-leaning organization. I wonder what it was about his 20 thousand parishoners that disqualified them from coming up with some decent questions?

In any case, I’d peg Warren politically as a left-leaning cleric. Be prepared from all of the tricks of the left, when you watch.

In fact, I consider this event to be designed to promote Barak Obama, and to make religious evangel-lite voters comfortable with him.


32 posted on 08/16/2008 11:41:47 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: labette

PDL might seem harmless, but Warren does misuse Scripture in it. He also sometimes uses a new-age-friendly version, The Message, when it suits some point he is trying to make. His “gospel” message in PDL is so “lite” it can hardly be called a gospel message.

We must be vigilant and “test the spirits,” as deception is washing over the church! Question everything, and compare everything to the Bible, and ask God for wisdom so that you will have discernment.


33 posted on 08/16/2008 11:44:18 AM PDT by Abigail Adams
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To: elpadre

So what? The fact that that truth is so widely repeated by others does not diminish the relevance of it, in understanding Rick Warren.


34 posted on 08/16/2008 11:45:47 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: elpadre

How do we really know that Warren believes in the God of the Bible? He was discipled by new ager Robert Schuller. Wolves sometimes wear sheep’s clothing. We are told in Scripture to contend for the faith, and to expose false teachers. Us anti-Warren Freepers are just being obedient to God. :-)


35 posted on 08/16/2008 11:47:10 AM PDT by Abigail Adams
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To: P-Marlowe; Corin Stormhands; enat; Chong
"Change people's minds by...what?

Like at the diaper station.

Or you could get a sheisse-suction device from Ronco.

36 posted on 08/16/2008 11:47:22 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: elpadre

Billy Graham has a great deal of influence in America. And he is one of the most humble of men. His goal has only been to spread the word of Christ. I don’t believe that Warren can say the same.


37 posted on 08/16/2008 11:48:08 AM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife
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To: P-Marlowe

All I can say about Rick Warren is that he is a very good marketer. His religion is all messed up, his philosophy has destroyed churches and driven millions out of their traditional settings, but he is a good marketer. He sells lots of books through his gimmicks.


38 posted on 08/16/2008 11:48:55 AM PDT by TommyDale (I) (Never forget the Republicans who voted for illegal immigrant amnesty in 2007!)
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To: Reagan Man
What I find troubling, is how can Rick Warren invite someone to his ministry, who professes to be a man of faith, yet condones and promotes abortion on demand. Its a total disconnect for me. Btw, this will be Obama’s second visit to see Warren.

I've never heard his message
But just as glance or two at his photos show me someone who isn't serious
Who is far too pleased with himself

Maybe he's delivering a feel good message to his mega-congregation
At least he isn't a Satanist or such so bully for you Rick!

39 posted on 08/16/2008 11:56:16 AM PDT by dennisw (That Muhammad was a charlatan. Islam is a hoax, an imperialistic ideology, disguised as religion.)
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To: Chong

Warren = Watered Down Christianity, Let’s all get along - don’t worry about the details.

Don’t fret Abortion - we’ll all sing Kumbaya and get over it.


40 posted on 08/16/2008 11:59:25 AM PDT by txzman (Jer 23:29)
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To: Corin Stormhands
Suggest you take a peak over there.

no,no, this thread is not about Mohammed, as in "if the mountain won't come to Mohammed...."

41 posted on 08/16/2008 12:08:21 PM PDT by gusopol3
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To: elpadre
Parables aside, we disagree. Whether you are a person of faith or an agnostic or even an atheist, the taking of an innocent unborn child is wrong. Roe v Wade's right to abortion on demand has been a holocaust. No matter how you slice the issue, abortion is an abomination to any right minded human being. The abortion issue and right to life, should actually transcend religious beliefs. Whether out of ignorance or arrogance, 50 million dead children leave me with no good options.
42 posted on 08/16/2008 12:08:44 PM PDT by Reagan Man ( McCain Wants My Vote --- this conservative is ambivalent to the odious Johnny Mac)
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To: Chong
Rick Warren is one of the new "Emergent Church" crowd... One God, many ways to him...

Good web source here: www.crossroad.to/News/Church/emergent.html

43 posted on 08/16/2008 12:12:55 PM PDT by KriegerGeist (Lifetime member of the "Christian-Radical-Right-Wing-Kook-Factor")
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To: Chong

His book was excellent.

I don’t care what the media or the accusers of the brethren have to say, they are cut from the same cloth.

Interested in how these question and answer sessions with McCain and Obama go.

Jesus Christ and His glory first....politics does not even come close.


44 posted on 08/16/2008 12:16:22 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: Snurple

My comments are this:

He has writen a great book, no doubt about it. It has been very helpful to a lot of people.

However, taking Christ out of the works of the gospel, saying that we need to solve the world-wide situation with the poor, and offering that Christ is not essential in this work, first and formost, is another gospel. Jesus said we’d always have the poor with us. And it is not wrong to do our work for the sake of the poor, as the NT also states that looking after the poor, the widows and the fatherless are doing the works of the gospel. However, doing the works to serve the poor, but without doing it in the name of Christ, and for His sake alone, is not biblical.

Another thing is this: It appears that Warren is saying that the sacrifices made by missionaries to bring the gospel and thereby transform the soul is not as useful as transforming the material lives of people. Facts show, though, that when the soul is transformed, the people prosper naturally...as an outcome.


45 posted on 08/16/2008 12:20:36 PM PDT by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: Chong

Robert Heinlein had it right: “Shamans and priests are the world’s SECOND OLDEST PROFESSION.” I remain highly skeptical of entrepreneurial evangelists.


46 posted on 08/16/2008 12:22:41 PM PDT by darth
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To: free_life
or the accusers of the brethren have to say, they are cut from the same cloth.

LOL! Give me a break. Better get your bible out and take a closer look at Bro Rick's teachings.

47 posted on 08/16/2008 12:28:26 PM PDT by Snurple
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To: Chong

Tackling poverty is a Christian virtue. Ignoring abortion and homosexuality to further your cause isn’t. Either it’s all gospel, or none of it is. Judge your preachers on that.


48 posted on 08/16/2008 12:44:21 PM PDT by DesScorp
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To: Snurple

I already now what the word of God says about accusing the people of God and about gossipers and scoffers and loving one another. Not interested in your religious judgmental hatred. Do you even know what spirit you are under the control of? It is not the Holy Spirit, for your words reveal your heart. How do you think the Pharisees fared, with their religious hard hearts? Do you think it will be any different for you?

And many will fall away being offended in their hearts, even betraying their brothers, their love having grown cold.


49 posted on 08/16/2008 12:46:18 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: elpadre
"Christians need to stop beating up each other."

St. Paul tells Christians to judge one another to keep each other in line. If one steps out of line, other Christians are supposed to call him on his wrongs. If that constitutes "beating each other up", then let the beatings continue.
50 posted on 08/16/2008 12:46:50 PM PDT by DesScorp
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