Skip to comments.Russian forces destroy key Georgian bridge ( What ceasefire comrade?)
Posted on 08/16/2008 10:31:53 AM PDT by 82ndABNOfficer
IGOETI, Georgia -- Russia and its allied forces today destroyed a key railway bridge linking war-weary Georgia's capital to the Black Sea coast, effectively severing all east-west transportation routes within the small country, the Georgian Foreign Ministry announced.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Bastards are destroying the country.
Not sure why we can’t just send in some of our special forces.....
How often have they broken their umpteenth “ceasefire” already? The Russians are already lying when they lower their jaw one inch.
Click the photo and view more reports. Hundreds of news reports are linked . . .
FNC Steve Harrigan reporting Russian forces within 14 miles of capitol this afternoon and not moving.
Russian soldiers interviewed along the road between Russian-controlled Gori and Igoeti said their mission was to protect the road. They could be seen hiking up toward hilltop positions and setting up checkpoints and tank positions and conducting what appeared to be foot patrols.
Nearby villagers were in a panic.”
Well, so much for diplomacy. The only type of diplomacy these guys understand begins with the muzzle of a gun barrel. This is even more brazen than what I expected, I assumed they would at least claim that certain elements of the peace plan had been violated.
I also expect the people of those two provinces will hold referendums and demand independence. Sadly, because of Clinton's sick precedent in Kosovo, and then Bush foolishly (IMHO) recognizing Kosovo, there will be little we can do to keep that from happening.
At least Bush, here late in the game, has seen how Putin has used him and abused his trust, and he (Bush) is now responding appropriately.
What we can do, is arm the Georgians with much more modern weaponry, train them, accept them into NATO, and then establish a couple of bases for either NATO, the US, or one of each, on each side of the country to act as a deterrent to more Russian agression.
I hope we will. The Georgians deserve it.
Don’t worry. I’ve been on Code Pink’s web site and A.N.S.W.E.R.’s site and they are all over this...........................
Well, don’t worry, both the EU and NATO will step in and face them down......................................
Oh, that’s right. The Georgians are screwed unless WE have the stones to help them.
I am starting to think that its time to hand Iraq the keys
and for us to refocus on this next rogue state.
This cannot be allowed to continue and Russia must be made
to pay. Somehow this needs to happen without touching
Too bad that GWB let himself be played by that monster.
I hope he gave Putin an earful at the Olympics
Will my good wife fetch me my boots and powder whilst I sharpen my bayonet, WAR is in the offing.
It doesn’t look like they plan on leaving, but will probably continue to sign ceasefires and agreements saying they will...liars, thugs & thieves.
Having pulled back from Ossetia and Abkhazia, the Georgians can now regroup and re-equip. They are in desperate need of two things: weapons to kill tanks, and weapons to kill or deter aircraft and helicopters. We can supply both. The Stinger missile, the bane of Russian Frontal Aviation in Afghanistan, is still the most potent shoulder-fired weapon around. It will cause Russian close support aircraft to keep their distance, or to attack from higher altitude. Providing Georgia with medium-range surface-to-air missiles which can be deployed from Georgian territory proper will further push back their high-altitude aircraft (e.g., Tu-22M Backfires). Freed from aerial observation and the threat of air attack, Georgian forces could move dismounted over the mountains more readily than Russian mechanized forces can move along the roads. Which means that the Georgians would be free to set up ambushes to block further Russian advances and to interdict their lines of communication. We can provide the wherewithal for them to do this. First, we need to give the Georgians anti-tank mines, and not just any kind, but our latest "smart" off-route mines like the XM93 Wide Area Mine (WAM). These don't have to be placed directly on the roads, but can be put off to the side, where built-in sensors can detect armored vehicles and launch explosive formed penetrator (RFP) warheads at them. Second, we need to give them our best anti-tank guided missile, the FGM-148 Javelin. This is a "fire and forget" weapon: once the operator lines up the target in his sights and locks on, he can fire the missile and get away, while the missile will fly autonomously to the target. With a range of about two kilometers, the Javelin also uses a "top attack" profile, diving down onto the roof of the tank where the armor is thinnest. In action in Operation Iraqi Freedom, javelins were devastating against Russian-designed tanks. Knocking out a few tanks or other armored vehicles on a narrow mountain road creates a barrier to movement behind which all traffic piles up, immobile and vulnerable to attack.
Most of that traffic will consist of trucks and other "soft" vehicles. It's a waste to go after them with expensive missiles, but cheap mortars work pretty well. Even better would be long-range, highly accurate heavy sniper rifles, such as the 12.7mm (.50-caliber) Barrett, much favored by U.S. special forces. Georgian special forces are reputed to be well trained and highly motivated. They would probably be even more motivated fighting Russians on their own soil than they were fighting al Qaeda back in Iraq.
Pretty soon, Russian forces will be taking serious casualties. They will have to inject more troops to protect their lines of communication. They will have to get out of their troop carriers and climb up into the mountains, where they will take more casualties from an agile and elusive enemy. They can't even resort to the time honored tactic of butchering the local population of Ossetia and Abkhazia, since these are now "Russian citizens," having been granted passports by the Russian government (thereby doing Hitler one better: there actually were Germans in the Sudetenland, but Putin had to invent his downtrodden "Russian" minority in Georgia).
As Russian forces start to bleed, it will be impossible, even in the controlled media of Putin's Russia, to hide the casualties from the Russian people. They will probably respond to this as they did to the bloodletting in both Afghanistan and Chechnya. Worse, for the Russian government, a prolonged and bloody war will require a massive increase in the Russian military budget, which has been run on a shoestring for most of the Putin era. That would mean making painful choices between the military and other priorities, precisely at the same time that oil prices have begun to come down, cutting into Russian revenues. In addition, the Russian military will begin to worry about the derailing of its abortive transformation plan: as the U.S. military recently discovered, you can fight a war, or you can transform yourself, but it's almost impossible to do both at once. Warfighting will eat into the already thin training, procurement, and research & development budgets, and soon the Russian staff will be howling, too.
So what will Russia do, in such a circumstance? They could escalate, but they might find more palatable a face-saving withdrawal, turning over Ossetia and Abkhazia to an international peacekeeping force, and leaving Georgian territory free of Russian troops. Georgia would then have to make its own peace with the separatists, but with a buffer between itself and the Russian army, the Georgians may have more leverage over its intransigent minorities.
Two things are needed to make this happen: political will on the part of the U.S. to provide the Georgian army with the necessary equipment and training (our Special Forces already have a close relationship with the Georgian army), and more important, political will on the part of the Georgian government to continue fighting until the Russians are off their soil. Whether the Georgians would want to fight what would certainly prove a long and difficult war is hard to say; it would surely depend in large measure on whether they believe we would stand with them to the end. Guerrilla wars are always messy, and without a sponsor, the guerrillas usually lose. But it is premature and more than a little defeatist to write off the Georgians' chances of bloodying the nose of the resurgent Russian bear.
The question our president must consider is whether saving Georgia is worth war with Russia, possibly nuclear. Thank goodness we have a president who understands these things. The Russian imperative in keeping a military threat from its back door is the same as ours was in October, 1962. We were willing to risk nuclear destruction to protect that imperative, as the Russians are now. We Americans are too often guilty of thinking of wars as events that we participate in in foreign countries, but we have to consider the reality of fighting the next one in our own front yard.
Send some humanitarian aid in the form of night vision equipment, anti-tank weapons and MANPAD anti-aircraft missiles to the Georgians, then watch the Bear try to get his clumsy paw out of the bear trap.
Hehe. I like the analogy.
The U.S. said a move toward Kutaisi would be a matter of great concern, but two defense officials told The Associated Press the Pentagon did not detect any major movement by Russia troops or tanks.
In a way this makes no sense as Kutaisi is mid-way between Gori and Poti (east - west line) which implies they are already there (Kutaisi). If the presence is small enough it is of no concern. A major push to the southwest, well that would be another story.
Cutting the route by blowing the bridge at Gori does imply they are going to keep the S.O. region with some buffer zone. I wonder what the lines look like on the east side, from Mtskheta to Dusheti and north?
IMHO, wouldn't a "temporary" closing of the Roki Tunnel also help to create a more "target rich enviornment" for the Georgians?
Good video at that link. Thank you.
Mtskheta is still occupied, per a friend I have there.
The President needs to make a very clear statement ASAP that the US is monitoring these activities and anything the Russians break the United States of America will speedily replace.
It is a Russian style ceasefire.
You cease, they fire.
“Send some humanitarian aid in the form of night vision equipment, anti-tank weapons and MANPAD anti-aircraft missiles to the Georgians”
If the Georgians fight back at this point the KGB will just send their armor into the capitol and depose the Georgian government.
It was 35 miles yesterday. I hope the West has an evacuation plan for the Georgian president.
A couple things make this a better plan than equipping them with the latest American gear. First it doesn't allow the Russians to capture/buy a Javelin. The second is that it rams their own support of our enemies back down their throat.
That's what the anti-tank weapons are for. If I were Bush or Rice today, I would be telling the Russians in no uncertain terms that if they don't withdraw their forces to the two provinces that they've already stolen from Georgia, we'll turn the rest of Georgia into another Afghanistan for them. That's the bear trap I refer to.
Since when does the Georgian government need to run out of Tblisi?
They can be located anywhere, as long as they have good lines of command, control, and communication. Their border with Turkey would be a pretty safe place, as I doubt the Turks would put up with armed Russian tank brigades and infantry divisions anywhere near them.
It changed and colored his entire approach. Any plans he had for our nation prior to that had to be modified.
As annoyed as I have been with some of his domestic policies, I believe his keeping the war on terrorism out in front has kept our country safer.
From WMD's on down he should have stuffed it all up their butts every time they attacked him and gave him the blame for everything that has ever happened.
Nonsense. If Saddam hadn't been taken out, the world would have sunk deeper into fear these last 8 years, convinced that he was developing WMD.
Besides, he deserved to be taken out just on shooting at fliers in the no-fly zone and oil-for-food abuses alone, even though kicking out the inspectors was enough.
he should have gone to war with real terrorists, and their funders
Under this President, thousands of terrorists have been killed as they were drawn like flies on honey to Iraq. And the money sources which were revealed and shut down are too many to mention.
He may not talk as well as you would like, but he's been incredibly effective in the WOT.
"Russian soldiers occupying the central Georgian town of Gori also pushed forward 14 miles toward the capital, Tbilisi, setting up positions on the country's main east-west road 25 miles from the capital."
If the article quote is accurate then they should reinforce Mtskheta but not move on to Tbilisi. If the "buffer zone" theory is the correct scenario, that is.
It may mean the Russians will give up Mtskheta in a "pull back" deal.
Maybe we already have...
1) An opportunity for those nations, in the middle of the islamic world, to develop constitutional republics and freedom...which is an example to the rest of the region and the bane to the Mullahs and Ayotollahs who want to rigidly control their people.
2) He has set up fly traps where the enemy terorists have been drawn of necessity to fight our forces and keep them from accomplishing number one. In so doing the infrastructure and leadership of the terrorists have been decimated, and their footsoldiers have been killed by the tens of thosuands...which has completely hampered them from bringing the fight back here to the US.
In doing this, if you would look at a map for a moment, the US has completely hemmed in the #1 sponsor of terror in the world, Iran. This is no accident. In using the Persina Guf and Arabian Sea to support or activities in Iraq and Afhganistan, the Mullahs are cut off from the sea, they have US forces to their west and US forces to their east. Again, this was no accident.
Now, it is true that we have a large part of the electorate in this country, and it is tragic really, that are so hooked on the social progams and handouts that the Democrats offer, that they are opposing the effort in the middle of a war. But this same situation was vetted in the last election and the majority of Americans came down on the side of fighting these wars and defeating the enemy...which Bush has gone forward with.
Now we face, in essence, the same challenge and opposition, and I believe it will come down the same way.
The US is winning this war and Bush has been correct in his strategy. I believe history will remember him well for that, as the one who through his vision and tenacity brought the opportunity for the blessings of liberty to tens of millions in the middle east. No one else has done that, while at the same time taking the fight to the Islamic Jhadists.
To best exemplify my own feelings on the matter, and I believce many other Americans, let me share with you a conversation I had with a Frenchman at the US memorial at Normandy about a year and nine months ago.
I was in France to pick up my son, who had just served a two year mission for our church there. We had been all over the country for a week visiting every place he had served. We were leaving the next day and took that day before to visit and pay our respects to the fallen American heroes of Normandy. My interest was more than passing, I had lost an Uncle, my mother's only brother, over Germany in the war on a bombing mission after the D-Day invasions.
As we were walking, two Frenchmen came by. We were speaking english and they stopped and asked if we were Americans. My son responded in fluent French and the two of them, my 22 year old son and this fiftyish Frenchman spoke for a few minutes.
At the end, the Frenchman turned to me and asked in English if my son would probably be going home to an American that had changed somewhat since he had come there. He said,
"Perhaps your son will find that President Bush is not held in such high esteeem anymore when he get's home because of his war in Iraq?"
I asked him if he wanted to know my thoughts on the matter, and he said yes.
I said to him,
"You know, my son and I are hear to honor the ten thousand dead Americans who are buried in that field over there who came here and died liberating your country...and I do not think at the moment that that has anything to do with George Bush or Iraq." I then told him,
"I'm not finished. Do you suppose that if you, here over sixty three years later, a frenchman who by your won admission respects and is grateful for the sacrifice of young American who gave their blood and their very lives to liberate your country from tyranny...I say if you can be grateful for their sacrifice here on this spot in France, do you suppose that fifty or sixty years from now there will be Iraqi's who are just as grateful for the sacrifice of American blood and lives to liberate them from a tyrant in Iraq? Do you?"
It got quiet. The Frenchman had nothing to say and myself and my son quietly excused ourselves and went on our way to sit by the graveyard for some time, contemplating these issues ourselves.
I believe that is the correct perspective from which to view what President Bush has done.
It’s like trying to make deals with Democrats...hmmm...
The Russians would definitely counter attack. If we supply them with missiles, and I think we should, we need to send them over in the thousands. Hand one to every soldier.
The question our president must consider is whether saving Georgia is worth war with Russia, possibly nuclear.”
Hardly. The question goes not to the US President, but the President of Georgia and his people. They will fight for their democratic sovereignty when bullied by the Russian hegemon. Of course this wont escalate to nuclear war, but it sure coudl escalate to the biggest Russian blunder since their Afghan misadventure of the 1980s.
“The Russian imperative in keeping a military threat from its back door is the same as ours was in October, 1962.”
Hardly. the Russians incited this mini-war with the specific goals of bringing former USSR back together, bit by bit. Its a re-imperialism agenda.
“We Americans are too often guilty of thinking of wars as events that we participate in in foreign countries, but we have to consider the reality of fighting the next one in our own front yard.”
We are all georgians now. If you think about what would WE do if a country invaded our land ... that’s what the Georgian Govt and people would do. Defend it at all costs.