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Despite Ceasefire, Russians Appear to be Continuing Military Operations in Georgia
McClatchy via Kansas City Star ^ | Saturday, August 16, 2008 | Tom Lasseter

Posted on 08/16/2008 2:33:05 PM PDT by kristinn

...As he was speaking, Russian armored fighting vehicles, tanks and troop transport trucks were staged alongside the side of the road between Gori and Igoeti.

The deputy head of the Russian military's general staff, Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, told media in Moscow that there were no troops in Gori. But a McClatchy journalist on Saturday saw dozens of military vehicles pouring out of the city.

The Russians denied destroying the railroad bridge, not far from Igoeti. The blast suspended Azeri rail transportation of crude oil across Georgia to Black Sea ports, according to Russian state media. The Georgian government provided pictures of the collapsed structure. Other recent Russian denials, such as saying on Wednesday that tanks weren't in Gori, didn't match what was happening on the ground....

When reporters passed a group of Georgian soldiers about 20 miles down the road from Gori - all of whom had assault rifles in the face of Russian armor units moving in the area - one of them ran up to the car and asked if anyone could tell him how far away the Russians were.

A policeman, Maj. Malkhaz Khubulovi, said in a dejected voice that the Russian soldiers "just do whatever they want."

"Will anyone help us?" he asked. "Will we survive?"

That sense of panic and despair is exactly what the Russian troops want, and explains why they have been staging late-night feints toward Tbilisi, said Richard Holbrooke, a former U.S. representative to the United Nations.

"Their real goal here is to overthrow President (Mikheil) Saakashvili," Holbrooke said, echoing a contention of the White House.

SNIP

As he spoke, Holbrooke was standing in the middle of the road in Igoeti, next to the foreign minister of Estonia, Urmas Paet, waiting for the Russians to allow them to ride toward Gori.

(Excerpt) Read more at kansascity.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: ceasefire; geopolitics; georgia; war
The Russians are playing with us. The will not be satisfied until they take Tblisi. If we allow that to happen, it will be a long time before our allies trust us again.
1 posted on 08/16/2008 2:33:05 PM PDT by kristinn
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To: kristinn

Agreed, this is the second “cease fire” and they are still rampaging around Georgia.


2 posted on 08/16/2008 2:35:17 PM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ Romans 10.10/Eze 11.2)
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To: kristinn

It is time to stop talking and take action.


3 posted on 08/16/2008 2:42:53 PM PDT by MarMema (The people of Georgia have cast their lot with the free world, and we will not cast them aside)
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To: kristinn
"They are occupying my country," said Gogi Donguzashvili, who was with a group of villagers who had come out to get a look at the Russians. "When you drive to Tbilisi, you see Russians the whole way."

I thought the Russians had no plans to occupy Georgia ? /sarc

4 posted on 08/16/2008 2:44:07 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: valkyry1; voteNRA; Monkey Face; MajorChaos; rrstar96; Jimmy Valentine; Arthur Wildfire! March; ...
Eastern European ping list

FRmail me to be added or removed from this Eastern European ping list

5 posted on 08/16/2008 2:46:06 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: kristinn

So the Russians are just like Democrats. They can’t be trusted.


6 posted on 08/16/2008 2:47:42 PM PDT by pleikumud
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To: padre35

This is no time for foot dragging but Putin is smart enough to know what many of us do, a presidential election year in the United States freezes out anything like a military option.

The words are tough, but I’m reading stories claiming the U.S. has already forced Georgia to allow Russian troops into South Ossetia and Abkhazia (the disputed regions) under this cease-fire.

In fact, there are claims that a buffer zone inside Georgian territory for Russian patrols (a thousand feet or so is being allowed) to come over the disputed area borders is included in the “cease-fire.”

For now Georgia is telling its people to avoid any contact
with “the invaders.”

The tough words of Washington wax cold because Putin knows and the United States knows that Russia’s help is needed with Iran.

But can Russia really be trusted when cease-fire agreements to pull back mean squat to them? Putin is in with the wackos in Tehran, too.


7 posted on 08/16/2008 2:47:46 PM PDT by Nextrush (MCLAME VS. NOBOMBEM.......What a choice?)
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To: kristinn

They are just hoping to goad anyone into firing on them, even if it means they fire first, just so they have reason to take it all.

I want to know exactly what “standing with them” means. Does that mean we will actually help defend their remaining territory? Or do we just stand around and watch?


8 posted on 08/16/2008 2:48:54 PM PDT by kenth (Will Rogers never met Barack Obama.)
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To: kristinn
Russia signs ceasefire with Georgia, but tanks remain in stand-off

And check this out....

Georgians doing forced labor in South Ossetia

9 posted on 08/16/2008 2:49:03 PM PDT by mewzilla (In politics the middle way is none at all. John Adams)
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To: kristinn

Wait... so you mean the Russians lied?!


10 posted on 08/16/2008 2:51:07 PM PDT by G.Love (FREE LAZ!)
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To: kristinn

They’re not done cleaning out the ATM’s ...... and John Murtha is where exactly?????


11 posted on 08/16/2008 2:51:28 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("What Our Enemies Couldn't Do To Us Our Liberal Democrat Politicians Will")
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To: kristinn
"They will not be satisfied until they take Tblisi. "

Senator Biden is headed over there. I'd be satisfied if they'd take him.

12 posted on 08/16/2008 2:54:48 PM PDT by mass55th
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To: kristinn
Putin is a predator. He knows the caliber of “leaders” he is dealing with. And so he knows he can do as he wishes.
13 posted on 08/16/2008 2:57:35 PM PDT by isrul (Harriet Quimby~1912~Hannah Reitsch ... A Coincidence?)
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To: MarMema
Who, in the West, would dare do such a thing?
14 posted on 08/16/2008 2:58:24 PM PDT by isrul (Harriet Quimby~1912~Hannah Reitsch ... A Coincidence?)
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To: mass55th
Sounds good to me.
15 posted on 08/16/2008 3:00:06 PM PDT by isrul (Harriet Quimby~1912~Hannah Reitsch ... A Coincidence?)
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To: kristinn
If we allow that to happen, it will be a long time before our allies trust us again.

And rightfully so.

16 posted on 08/16/2008 3:05:18 PM PDT by TheBattman (Vote your conscience, or don't complain about RINOs!)
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To: kristinn
The huge problem we, and the rest of the civilized world, face right now is the continuing barrage of conflicting claims, from both sides. It's been this way in every conflict we've dealt with for 100 years. Job One at this point has to be to get people into the country who know war from the inside out and can report facts. This would have been the job of UN Peace Observers, I can't even type that without laughing, but they have proved to be so totally ineffective and one-sided that they aren't even on the list of possible observers.

We might have to seize the initiative and put together a coalition of the willing who will go in, with US protection, and report what's going on, where and when. I don't care what you call it, but it will be a kick ass and take names operation. Not to separate the factions but rather to make it possible to get factual, objective information out to the rest of the world.

This ‘skirmish’ is of great importance and if not handled properly, and quickly, runs the risk of escalating to be a huge thing. We make this mistake every time. All sorts of propaganda starts flowing out of the area, every piece of which is intended to bolster the claims of the side who is putting it out. The sides do one thing, but report something entirely different.

Unless we set up a system to get reliable information out of the battle zone(s) we just spinning our wheels.

There's no doubt Georgia took the bait and really stepped in ‘it’. And just as soon as some order is restored they have to get a really forceful and direct message from those who are going to have to clean up this mess they started. We're pulling your bacon out of the fire this time, but only because we failed to have a handle on the situation. Next time you step out on your own and bite off more than you can chew you're on your own. Period.

I am just so sick and tired of countries, Iran and Russia for instance, being able to act with impunity to mess with their neighbors and then be given weeks and months to continue the killing while the rest of the world wrings its hands and tries to decide a course of action.

BS, invade another country's territory with hostile forces and you are the bad guy.

The first few times we do this it's going to be ugly, very ugly, but only because we've let it go on for so long. The understanding among those who wish us ill is that they will have a considerable time period to do their bad deeds before we, if we ever, get around to dealing with them.

Iran in Iraq, Russia in Georgia, just two examples.

I know this is radical thinking, but we're no closer to having a system to handle these situations that we were when N. Viet Nam started its thing in S. Viet Nam.

17 posted on 08/16/2008 3:08:11 PM PDT by jwparkerjr
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To: Nextrush
The tough words of Washington wax cold because Putin knows and the United States knows that Russia’s help is needed with Iran.

Anyone in the US government who thinks that Russia will help with Iran now, is just plain delusional. Russia is holding the free people of Georgia hostage. Any military movement against Iran now will result in Russian troops leveling Tbilisi. That is the reality of the situation.

18 posted on 08/16/2008 3:08:32 PM PDT by justa-hairyape
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To: kristinn
You have seen nothing yet!!! Wait until the Russians begin insisting that a peace keeping force consisting of Iranian and Syrian Army Units secure a buffer zone splitting Georgia in half!!!!

NATO is not even beginning to get it.

19 posted on 08/16/2008 3:35:52 PM PDT by Candor7 (Fascism? All it takes is for good men to say nothing, (Ridicule Obama))
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To: justa-hairyape

I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking along those lines


20 posted on 08/16/2008 3:51:01 PM PDT by Shaun_MD
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To: kristinn

Quick! Send Obama and the French to talk some sense into them.


21 posted on 08/16/2008 4:06:01 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham ("The land of the Free...Because of the Brave")
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham
Président de la République française Nicolas Sarkozy has just returned by
plane from Moscow waving a piece of paper , declaring "Peace in our time"

22 posted on 08/16/2008 4:08:28 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 78:35 And they remembered that God was their ROCK, And the Most High God their Redeemer.)
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To: mewzilla; MarMema
And check this out....

Georgians doing forced labor in South Ossetia

Does the Georgian Orthodox Church have a fund set up for donations directly to them for distribution?

23 posted on 08/16/2008 5:55:32 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: isrul

Putin is a thug. thugs only know street rules.
The West is not able to deal with them.

We can’t even deal with thugs who operate by street rules in the US..How the heck can we do this in the world.?


24 posted on 08/16/2008 6:01:50 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (GOD BLESS GEORGIA! SAVE GEORGIA, OUR ALLY, NOW!)
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To: Nextrush

“This is no time for foot dragging but Putin is smart enough to know what many of us do, a presidential election year in the United States freezes out anything like a military option.”

Which is what would make military action a brilliant move.
For once - it would be nice to see our country take some of these thugs by surprise.


25 posted on 08/16/2008 6:06:50 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Thorin

Still think this is all just about South Ossetia?


26 posted on 08/16/2008 6:11:30 PM PDT by Antoninus (McCain/Palin in 2008!)
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To: jwparkerjr

Very good post....a realistic assessment with strength. I disagree with the observation though that “Georgia stepped into it.”.. I base my opinion on the recent observations and understanding on CSPAN’s panel discussion (posted on Cspan’s video collection) with Ralph Peters, the Commander of the US Training of Georgia’s army, etc. these historians and political and military experts said that was not the correct perspective to take.

I think it is unfair to allow russia to go into Georgia (Ossetia ) and set up a ‘pre launch’ set up. The two were in contstant offense and defense postures and military “skirmishes” until one time, the russians just arbitraily chose the time and went in.

Other than that perspective I have appreciated your post.


27 posted on 08/16/2008 6:14:17 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (GOD BLESS GEORGIA! SAVE GEORGIA, OUR ALLY, NOW!)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
I defer to your position on Georgia having ‘stepped in it”. I am not up on that aspect of the conflict at all.

It is just so frustrating that we've come to a world where there seems to be no such thing as truth. Each side tells its version of events, always wildly divergent, and there's no longer anyone to say who's version is correct, or more nearly so. So very frustrating, like with everything ending up in court these days. Nothing is ever final.

My solution would be, as I outlined in an earlier post, to tell Russia they have X number of hours to get their troops and their equipment out of Georgia. Period. Any Russian resource that is still in Georgia and not in motion toward the border will be considered a hostile target and US aircraft will handle the situation. It would cause all sorts of worldwide condemnation and an unbelievable amount of consternation right here are home, but I bet it wouldn't take but a couple of the attacks to send the message.

My prayers are with the people of Georgia. If America does nothing else with its might and power we should make it abundantly clear that we stand with any people who want a democratic way of life. Georgia has gone the extra mile to show its support of us, and we should do the same for them. In fact, I think I might even open a general store somewhere over there near the region and offer fire sale prices on all sorts of offensive and defensive weapons of war. Openly advertise to all those former Soviet countries that we are offering to help them build up their armed forces to avoid developing a positive Georgia sign. And I would certainly set about making life as uncomfortable for Russia as possible. There's got to be 50 ways we can mess with them without having to resort to military means. At some point we are simply going to have to take a more proactive stance in dealing with people like them and Iran.

28 posted on 08/16/2008 7:41:26 PM PDT by jwparkerjr
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To: jwparkerjr

Your articulate and comprehensive post was much appreciated. You obviously have given much thought to this issue.

I think you need to call John MCain tonight ( after his marvelous performance ) and offer your services to his campaign and offer your services to consult on foreign affairs!

Have you seen the Cspan panel discussion..you would enjoy it.


29 posted on 08/16/2008 8:14:31 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (GOD BLESS GEORGIA! SAVE GEORGIA, OUR ALLY, NOW!)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
I have to say I was quite impressed with McCain's performance tonight. It's beyond me how anyone could watch tonite’s program and still feel Obama has something to offer the America we have today.

I do not agree with him on several matters, but in a contest between him and Obama, or Hillary for that matter, there is no doubt in my mind who will better serve our country in the Oval Office.

I would also line up about 50 or more countries from all over the world who would each send 100 or so members of their military to serve as observers in Georgia. I would have them in uniform, armed to the teeth and would make it very clear to Russia that even one of them is so much as scratched by a member of the Russian military that there will be hell to pay. What better way for countries from all around the world to show they are standing up with Georgia and at the same time telling Russia the good ol’ days are gone forever.

Whatever we've been doing for the last few years is not working very well. It's time for a change. In my book that change is to confront Russia and its friends, like Iran, on every front. Don't give them a moment's rest.

30 posted on 08/16/2008 9:03:26 PM PDT by jwparkerjr
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To: jwparkerjr

Another excellant post.


31 posted on 08/17/2008 4:19:13 AM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (GOD BLESS GEORGIA! SAVE GEORGIA, OUR ALLY, NOW!)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
We're headed for some very rough times.
32 posted on 08/17/2008 4:53:08 AM PDT by isrul (Harriet Quimby~1912~Hannah Reitsch ... A Coincidence?)
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To: isrul

I agree. I was so heartened by mcCain’s performance last night. Rough times are ahead and we need someone with knowledge and experience of forgeign policy and how our domestic policies contribute to that.

If we can not defend ourselves and our allies, it doesn’t much matter which health insurance plan we are using.


33 posted on 08/17/2008 5:30:41 AM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (GOD BLESS GEORGIA! SAVE GEORGIA, OUR ALLY, NOW!)
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