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Mexican Border City Drug Dead Hits 800
Newsmax.com ^ | August 18, 2008 | Jim Meyers

Posted on 08/18/2008 6:36:43 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks

A massacre at a drug rehab center last week helped push the number of homicides in the Mexican border city of Juarez to more than 800 this year as rival drug gangs battle for turf.

On Wednesday a commando-style group fired a barrage of more than 60 rounds during a religious service at the drug rehab center, killing eight and wounding five. Five other people were killed elsewhere in the city on that day.

More than 100 people have been killed so far in August in the war between the Sinaloa and Juarez drug cartels, which broke out in January, the El Paso Times reports.

The homicide rate in Juarez, a city of nearly 2 million that is just across the border from El Paso, Tex., now stands at about 3.5 murders a day.

“If you wanted to see what terrorism is like, you are looking at it full-fledged over there,” El Paso police Chief Greg Allen told The Times.

“People are getting killed in broad daylight in front of everyone.”

Allen said the threat of drug violence spilling across the border into El Paso is slight. The city has had 12 homicides this year.

But the U.S. government is bringing Mexican casualties from the conflict to hospitals north of the border and paying for medical treatment. El Paso’s Thomason Hospital has treated 28 victims of the Mexican drug war this year, at a cost to taxpayers of about $1 million, according to the Los Angeles Times.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Mexico; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; cartels; deathtoll; drugs; drugtrafficking; drugwars; juarez; juarezcartel; mexico; murders; sinaloacartel; terrorism; warondrugs; wod; wot

1 posted on 08/18/2008 6:36:44 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

No wonder so many Mexicans are trying to leave that cesspool. Can the U.S. do anything to stop the violence? Can anyone?


2 posted on 08/18/2008 6:38:20 PM PDT by nobama08
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

I’m looking at Juarez through my hotel window. No way am I going near that town while I’m out here.


3 posted on 08/18/2008 6:38:34 PM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Go, Sonics! And take the Mariners with you.)
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To: nobama08

It’ll stop when one of the drug cartels wins. Not until then.


4 posted on 08/18/2008 6:39:30 PM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Go, Sonics! And take the Mariners with you.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

800 murders and it’s only August...who’s the mayor of Juarez, David Dinkins?


5 posted on 08/18/2008 6:40:27 PM PDT by Roccus (Someday it'll all make sense.....maybe.)
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To: nobama08
Can the U.S. do anything to stop the violence? Can anyone?

Ending the War on Drugs by both the Feds and the states would deprive the gangs of income from our massive drug market.

6 posted on 08/18/2008 6:40:45 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Drill Here! Drill Now! Pay Less! Sign the petition at http://www.americansolutions.com/)
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To: nobama08
Only one man can clean up a corrupt Mexican town: The Mariachi!
7 posted on 08/18/2008 6:42:00 PM PDT by Holicheese (Hillary deserves the CMoH for her time in Tuzla!)
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To: SandyInSeattle

The Mexican Government is one of the drug gangs. The border war is happening, in part, to cover the Mexican Government’s involvement.


8 posted on 08/18/2008 6:44:03 PM PDT by whipitgood (Illegal immigration: Let's roll!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Isn’t murdering these people against the Geneva Convention or “unconstitutional” or something?


9 posted on 08/18/2008 6:45:01 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (A History and Science Minute.- "Climate change" has been going on for millions of years!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Prohibition has always had a lot of violence associated with it.


10 posted on 08/18/2008 6:45:39 PM PDT by microgood
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To: whipitgood

The Mexican government is certainly corrupt. The recent problems in Juarez, though, are because of fighting between two separate drug cartels. The government is a third element.


11 posted on 08/18/2008 6:49:11 PM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Go, Sonics! And take the Mariners with you.)
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To: FlingWingFlyer
Isn’t murdering these people against the Geneva Convention or “unconstitutional” or something?

No, you're thinking of putting panties on the head or lengthy questioning methods. Murder is A-OK by Geneva.

12 posted on 08/18/2008 6:51:10 PM PDT by BipolarBob (I overinflate my tires, so the gas fairy will fill my tank.)
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To: SandyInSeattle

I believe the MexGov could easily end the drug war. Closing the border would be a great first step. Their failure to intervene in a positive way makes them complicit. I also think that the MexGov military presence makes it very easy to seize drugs and/or money from the other parties. Not to mention the ease with which they can operate within the USA should that be necessary.


13 posted on 08/18/2008 6:55:28 PM PDT by whipitgood (Illegal immigration: Let's roll!)
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To: whipitgood

All very good points.

Seems like every time the Mexicans get somebody decent in government or law enforcement they end up dead.


14 posted on 08/18/2008 6:59:48 PM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Go, Sonics! And take the Mariners with you.)
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To: FlingWingFlyer
Isn’t murdering these people against the Geneva Convention or “unconstitutional” or something?

Why in the world would drug cartels observe the niceties of armed conflict? Not to mention they're non-uniformed combatants (except for the Mexican army, where applicable), so the Geneva conventions don't apply.

15 posted on 08/18/2008 7:06:36 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Drill Here! Drill Now! Pay Less! Sign the petition at http://www.americansolutions.com/)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
This is not crime.

Its urban warfare.

They should set up a cordon at night, evacuate the neighborhoods where these posses hang out, and go in and irradicate them.

But of course, that is not politically correct.

BTW, look for the same in a City near you in America. It won't be long either, with illegal aliens coming in and bringing their posses with them. It will only be a few years before places like El Paso and San Antonio, Texas, will suffer the same dynamic.

Thank goodness the Border Patrol and Minutemen are slowing them down. But they can't keep them out with their present numbers and restricted authority.

Juarez is a staging ground for their US entry.

That is one reason it is important turf and why they are fighting over it.

16 posted on 08/18/2008 7:12:52 PM PDT by Candor7 (Fascism? All it takes is for good men to say nothing, (Ridicule Obama))
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Why in the world would drug cartels observe the niceties of armed conflict? Not to mention they're non-uniformed combatants (except for the Mexican army, where applicable), so the Geneva conventions don't apply.

I forgot to add, "sarc/off." Sorry.

17 posted on 08/18/2008 7:20:56 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (A History and Science Minute.- "Climate change" has been going on for millions of years!)
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To: Candor7
There are plenty of reports of gang violence south of the border. According to this Daily Telegraph Article:
Since January, more than 1,300 people have been killed in execution-style hits or gunned down in fire fights, which often rage for hours in broad daylight and turn residential neighbourhoods into war zones. If the trend continues, 2008 will top last year's toll of 2,500 deaths in drug-related killings.
You don't hear so much about Americans at the Border. Too bad.

Americans are regularly abused. According to this article entitled US Warns Tourists of 'Small-Unit Combat' at Mexico Border -- Murder and kidnapping of Americans has become routine all along the US Mexican border. According to the State Department sometimes heavily armed attackers wear the uniforms of the Mexican police or military. According to Mexicans their military has even become part of the problem.

If there is silence about events at the border. The silence about killings north of the border is deafening. And yet....

More Americans killed by illegal aliens than Iraq war, study says Think about it. A man or woman killed in Iraq or Iran in the line of duty is a hero. But what is an American killed at home by an illegal alien because the government has failed in its sworn duty to guard the borders. This is a pact between the sovereign and the person has paid taxes and loyalty. The answer is to that question is pretty awful. And it bodes ill for the republic.

But is it true?

Yes, according Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa.When you start digging into the numbers the only ones that can be sourced with the feds are the number of American murdered in 2005: 16692
I have seen federal numbers for illegals held in jail ranging from 19.3% to 27% of the federal prison population.

Here's a sampling of USA cities wanted for murder. What you'll see is that in big USA cities like LA or NYC most of the murderers are Hispanic. Unknown are the % of illegals. In smaller cities the FBI will post the nationalities of the murderers. About 25% of the most wanted are illegals wanted for murder. This number agrees with the percentage of illegals incarcerated in federal prisons. +-25%

Pictures of top 10 most wanted in LA. Up until recent stories about crime in LA posted by the LA Times--the pictures included the nationality of the murderers. They were all foreign nationals and mostly Mexican.

Wanted for Murder in New York City.

Chicago wanted for Murder


Philadelphia wanted for murder

San Francisco wanted for Murder


New Orleans wanted for Murder

Pictures of suspects wanted for murder in Washington DC

FBI USA 10 most wanted. (two of 10 are Mexican nationals) Around 40% of the FBI's wanted for murder are Mexican Nationals

There are currently no exact numbers on the number of Americans killed by illegals. Part of the reason is that the government deliberately obscures the number. I talked on the phone with the head of statistics for the US Bureau of Prisons. He said his office wasn't allowed to publish the number of illegal alien murderers. Rather they were forced to put legal and non legal residents in the same category. He said further that most of illegals in the federal prisons were in for drug related charges. Most of the illegals in jail for murder were in the state prisons. I talked to ICE. They put out detailed numbers on illegal child molestors. However, they put out nothing on illegal murderers.

Part of the reason for the silence on the matter is that there is evidence to suggest that most Americans--but by no means all -- being killed by illegals are black--as is the suggestion in this LA Times Article. Also this article from the LA Times. And here. This makes intuitive sense. We see stories regularly of drug gang killings in Mexico but we don't see those same stories in the USA. The reason we don't see those stories is not because its not happening. Rather we don't see the stories about illegals killing blacks because that kind of story is terribly politically incorrect. The populations being displaced in downtown sanctuary cities especially are American blacks. That means that their criminal elements would be pushed aside by Mexican gangs as well. That's also the story that the wanted for murder posters in all the major cities seems to suggest.

Why isn't there an outcry in the black community? Beats me.

Nevertheless, the pattern of non reporting is starting to break. Discovery Channel has a series called Gangland that mentions ethnic cleasing of blacks by Mexican gangs. One woman in San Francisco who had her family killed by an illegal is even demanding the city to drop its sanctuary city status.

Reported Foreign Nationals on Death Row in the U.S.

To look at other USA cities go here http://stlouis.fbi.gov/ and replace stlouis with the city you want.

All that said the true number of criminal aliens is far higher than is revealed by criminal aliens in prisons. Most are simply waived through the courts.DHS Secretary Chertoff, has been quoted as warning that two million people in this country illegally have committed serious crimes. If you check the links you'll notice that its McCain who cites Chertoff. See also here and here Here is more info from Judicial Watch.

However the number of illegals on death row is far lower. Sadly, so many small towns and villages across America have sent their warriors off to war half way across the world only to see communities fill up with illegal aliens.


18 posted on 08/18/2008 7:36:49 PM PDT by ckilmer (Phi)
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To: whipitgood

Sadly, the Mexican gov’t is horribly corrupt, always has been.

And perhaps, always will be.


19 posted on 08/18/2008 7:38:30 PM PDT by Levante
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To: ckilmer; Fred Nerks; Calpernia; Beckwith
( Fred Nerks, Calpernia,Beckwith Ping to ckilmers post #18 this thread)

Wow, you have indeed described demographic warfare in the USA!

And the feds are quiet about it because they do not want to stir up Hispanic Nationalism in the USA , until after the election? Who cares, they are in Obam's pocket so far, one more strike against the Messiah, BTW.

Too many aristocrats have Mexican nannies in their kitchens. MccAin has not touched the issue so far, and when he has, its been on the side of illegals. He needs to see strength in opposing them.

These facts need revealing in the due course of this election cycle.

Thus the pings to my very capable and honorable FRiends.This dynamic may well decide the election.

20 posted on 08/18/2008 8:12:23 PM PDT by Candor7 (Fascism? All it takes is for good men to say nothing, (Ridicule Obama))
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To: nobama08

Yes, Americans can stop using illegal drugs, re “law of supply and demand” and “cause and effect”.


21 posted on 08/18/2008 8:32:39 PM PDT by Linden1209
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To: Candor7

And the feds are quiet about it because they do not want to stir up Hispanic Nationalism in the USA , until after the election?
_________________________________
No, they are planning on the North American Union and do not want to stir things up until that is complete. It is a done deal now.


22 posted on 08/18/2008 8:41:15 PM PDT by Linden1209
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To: Linden1209
No, they are planning on the North American Union and do not want to stir things up until that is complete. It is a done deal now.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I wonder if that is where Oblama gets his 57 states from. A Freudian slip?

Si, si!

Obama es una piquana Cucharacha!

( Gawd, did I say that?)

23 posted on 08/18/2008 8:52:21 PM PDT by Candor7 (Fascism? All it takes is for good men to say nothing, (Ridicule Obama))
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

“But the U.S. government is bringing Mexican casualties from the conflict to hospitals north of the border and paying for medical treatment. El Paso’s Thomason Hospital has treated 28 victims of the Mexican drug war this year, at a cost to taxpayers of about $1 million, according to the Los Angeles Times.”

WHY? WHY, why, why?????


24 posted on 08/18/2008 8:59:23 PM PDT by AuntB ( "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: ckilmer

BTT!


25 posted on 08/18/2008 9:06:22 PM PDT by AuntB ( "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: Candor7

SECURITY PROSPERITY PARTNERSHIP

26 posted on 08/18/2008 9:20:01 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: Candor7

Yes he is but you forgot to use the male ending “o”. You said he is a small, female cockaroach. Maybe you did mean it!


27 posted on 08/18/2008 9:28:56 PM PDT by Linden1209
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Agreed. The War on Drugs has been a gigantic waste of resources that hasn’t cured our drug addiction but has filled our prisons to the brim and created violent drug gangs that have killed tens of thousands of Americans. We need to change our strategy.


28 posted on 08/18/2008 10:08:02 PM PDT by DemonDeac
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

and to think we drove into the town about 23 yrs ago with our kids and we went there just a few years ago on one of those bus tours.....we actually left the tour and walked to the grocery store to buy liquor by ourselves....


29 posted on 08/18/2008 10:16:18 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

You couldn’t pay me to visit Ciudad Juarez. I’d rather walk naked in Philadelphia at 3 a.m. wearing a cheesehead.


30 posted on 08/18/2008 10:26:25 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (BARACK OBAMA WILL SAVE US! HE HAS RISEN!!)
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To: Linden1209
Well I did blow it. "piquena" is the right spelling, and it takes the feminine inflection from the noun cucharacha, which I believe is feminine. No wonder the Spanish have sex on their minds? They can't get away from it! Thats why English needs to be our official language in the US? Or maybe that is WHY we know Spanish? Who knows.

Of course "Piqeno" can be slang for a man with a small dick.

I would suppose that fits Obama better.Even shorty Putin clearly has him out classed.

31 posted on 08/18/2008 10:33:11 PM PDT by Candor7 (Fascism? All it takes is for good men to say nothing, (Ridicule Obama))
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To: Fred Nerks

I am going to Mexico NOW and buying some cheap beachfront land.LOL.


32 posted on 08/18/2008 10:34:34 PM PDT by Candor7 (Fascism? All it takes is for good men to say nothing, (Ridicule Obama))
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

I did a consulting contract in Juarez a few years ago. Glad I’m not there now.


33 posted on 08/18/2008 11:33:11 PM PDT by Mogollon ($5/gal Gas....Kick the Jacka$$es Out!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Visited Juarez for about one hour last October. Fortunately nobody was getting murdered in our presence. Not a lot of friendly faces.


34 posted on 08/19/2008 3:36:48 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: SandyInSeattle
"not going near that town"

The main drag tourist section is not too bad. What I don't like about the shops is the necessity to haggle over just about everthing you buy. I like price tags.

35 posted on 08/19/2008 3:38:29 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

I agree but it won’t happen.


36 posted on 08/19/2008 4:08:55 AM PDT by nobama08
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To: Linden1209

Well, we know that won’t happen. Perhaps a wiser approach would be to end the failed War on Drugs, but that won’t happen, either.


37 posted on 08/19/2008 4:10:16 AM PDT by nobama08
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Yikes! Yet both B. Hussein and John Sidney McCain voted AGAINST barring terrorists and criminals from entering the US, and both want amnesty. Annexing parts of US to Mexico or giving them independence would be the next step in line with our policy re Kosovo.
38 posted on 08/19/2008 4:27:20 AM PDT by apocalypto
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To: driftless2

I’m with you. Just tell me the price, don’t play with me!


39 posted on 08/19/2008 5:34:15 AM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Go, Sonics! And take the Mariners with you.)
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To: nobama08

The Chinese got rid of drug use by killing all of the drug dealers it found then anyone that used illegal drugs after that clean slate, now no problem. also now lots of organ donors.


40 posted on 08/19/2008 5:42:54 AM PDT by bdfromlv (Leavenworth hard time)
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To: nobama08
"No wonder so many Mexicans are trying to leave that cesspool. Can the U.S. do anything to stop the violence? Can anyone?"

Legalize drugs. During prohibition alcohol dealers used to kill each other and innocent people all the time. They also bought off judges, prosecutors, customs and law enforcement officers and generally corrupted society on every level. Since alcohol has become legal though, not so much anymore.

41 posted on 08/19/2008 7:54:46 AM PDT by monday
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To: whipitgood
“I believe the MexGov could easily end the drug war.”

No way. There is too much money being made. The Mexican government isn't powerful enough to stop it, and neither is ours. If it was so easy, we'd have done it a long time ago.

42 posted on 08/19/2008 10:17:41 AM PDT by TKDietz
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To: nobama08

Yes, Americans can stop using illegal drugs, re “law of supply and demand” and “cause and effect”.

Well, we know that won’t happen. Perhaps a wiser approach would be to end the failed War on Drugs, but that won’t happen, either.
________________________________________

That cannot be wiser because having dopers driving on the roads or doing any of their abhorrent behavior is a menace.

Why is it that smoking cigarettes is a big NO NO but doing drugs is OK w/the PC crowd? Example: there is a fried brain in the next town who insists on taking his clothes off in public, accosting people, growling and making animal noises. Cigarettes may be bad but not that bad.

No, ending the war on drugs would not be wise. What would be wise is making drugs not PC like they did smoking regular cigarettes.


43 posted on 08/19/2008 10:54:29 AM PDT by Linden1209
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To: TKDietz

If the border were closed, the drug trade would drop to a trickle. Mexico could close it, as could the US. The problem is money going to the politicians on both sides for keeping the borders open. No will equals no way. We agree.


44 posted on 08/19/2008 12:13:30 PM PDT by whipitgood (Illegal immigration: Let's roll!)
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To: whipitgood
What do you mean by closing the border? Are you talking about closing off even all the trade and travel done through border checkpoints? That's probably where most of the drugs are coming through right now. Drugs come in in shipping crates. They come in hidden in private vehicles and tons at a time hidden in trailers pulled by 18 wheelers. Even if we build a fence it won't close the border for drugs. It might slow the illegal aliens coming over to work, but it wouldn't to slow the flow of drugs much. There is too much money involved. I'd bet a million bucks that we'd see just as much cocaine and heroin coming over because we don't produce that stuff here and Americans only consume a few hundred tons of that stuff a year compared to many thousands of tons of marijuana. More meth and marijuana would be produced here, just because they can produce it here. A lot would still come through border checkpoints too though, and over, under and around the fence. There are billions and billions of dollars to be made, high demand and plenty of money to pay for the product in demand. One way or another that demand will be met.
45 posted on 08/19/2008 2:57:05 PM PDT by TKDietz
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To: bdfromlv

I don’t think we want to emulate the Chinese way of law, do we?


46 posted on 08/19/2008 3:02:30 PM PDT by nobama08
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To: nobama08

It is proven to work quickly and it is what liberal stealth laws eventually cause, the removal of rights for the good of the government. When black and white turns to grey in the law only we lose. We allow our cities to disregard our laws as they see fit until we have to go draqstic to fix what we know is a problem ,borders, drugs, crime,illegals etc.


47 posted on 08/20/2008 2:08:31 AM PDT by bdfromlv (Leavenworth hard time)
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To: nobama08

sometimes you have to use the cure to take back the street. talk only works when people have a reason to listen.


48 posted on 08/30/2008 5:46:03 AM PDT by bdfromlv (Leavenworth hard time)
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