8mm
Posted on 08/19/2008 8:50:45 AM PDT by Daniel T. Zanoza
Exactly. That's the point of confusion.
A “Will to Live” is better than a “Living Will” and can be downloaded to be used, or just used as an example, from www.nrlc.org.
You have to be very careful with “living wills.”
For instance:
“I don’t want to be on a respirator,” it could mean one thing if it would only prolong an imminent death for months or years, and another thing if it would only be needed for 48 or more hours after an accident, and one could be restored to normal health.
Good advice, Sun.
What we see is people who pay off their houses and think, at least I can give my house to my kids. Then they go into government medical care and the kids get the bill when they die. Kids usually sell the house to pay it off.
Exactly. My parents never sued anyone - never even considered it - but in the end, they wanted to sue for surgery-gone-wrong that ruined my father's chances to live. Cases for the exact same surgery gone-wrong had been fought and won in the courts, but those patients were younger. Not one lawyer would take my father's case. They told my mother straight-out: They were refusing the case because they wouldn't make enough money on a patient who was "too old." And the surgeons and doctors know the lawyers will refuse those cases.
I wouldn’t necessarily agree with that...Johnny Cochran and OJ Simpson come to mind.
But the 2nd part is spot on.
I find the opposite is true....around here anyway (Atlanta), even if you have a DNR and so much as sneeze, they call 9-11. Alot of people here want hospice for their relatives so they won’t wind up in the ER all the time against their will.
Again here's what you said:
Having a living will is an invitation for a hospital or nursing home to neglect you to death.
A living will or advanced directive can say many different things...so my statement stands.
And personally I haven't seen people get neglected because they had one.
My treatment is the same...UNLESS they have specifically directed their care to NOT have certain things done to them..ie: No PEG, no TPN, no intubation, no CPR....etc..etc..
But, just because someone is a DNR...doesn't mean we don't "do" everything else.
Yes, I know some health care workers think a bit like that....but they are in error.
From the MD perspective..You have a relationship with a patient. You have explored the wishes of a patient with regard to ordinary and extra ordinary care.
On the other end of things is reality. The population of nurses is getting older. The number of nurses that know intrinsically and morally that DNR is not equal to no care is diminishing daily.
It has been 30 plus years since Rowe/v Wade. The nurses replacing the old timers have been acculturated into some lives being expendable.
When I was in nursing supervision, I had to snatch a few young nurses aside for little talks. One in particular announced when walking into the unit..”What is this DNR doing in my unit, get them out of here”.
The problem is not the orders...The problem is the attitude.
I have seen it more times than I can count...Early signs of CHF are ignored, unless you have a family member out at the desk being a squeaky wheel, the doctor doesn't get called.
SVT gets ignored. Someone gets a dose of pain meds instead of calling the doctor when there is chest pain.
I agree that the concept of “No care” is a grave error but the battle over attitude has already been lost.
I testified in front of a State Legislature commission a number of years ago on elder issues. The whole day was filled with back to back stories of elder neglect in hospitals and the DNR issue came up over and over.
It's the law of unintended consequences and it has had and will continue to have an impact.
Exactly. The life of an elderly person is worth about as much as a fetus.
That being said...I've worked with many bed-side healthcare professionals that wouldn't know a patient in distress...if their life depended on it. But this didn't have anything to do with the patients code status. More to lack of education and/or mentoring after formal education. And frankly probably laziness too...
ALL that said.....I always advocate a family member or a friend to be with ANY patient in ANY hospital. I don't care if it's the Mayo Clinic, or Loma Linda University Hospital, or any fairly well respected facility.
There are idiot doctors, idiot allied health workers, and idiot nurses everywhere..........
I’m glad that your experiences have been good ones.
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