Posted on 08/19/2008 8:51:07 PM PDT by flyfree
In some Western nations an utterly one-sided picture has been painted of the recent crisis in the Georgia-South Ossetia conflict. The statements of American officials would lead one to conclude that the crisis began when Russia sent in its troops to support its peacekeepers there.
Meticulously avoided in those statements: The decision of Tbilisi to use crude military force against South Ossetia in the early hours of Aug. 8. The Georgian army used multiple rocket launchers, artillery and air force to attack the sleeping city of Tskhinvali.
Some honest independent observers acknowledge that a surprised Russia didn't respond immediately. We started moving our troops in support of peacekeepers only on the second day of Georgia's ruthless military assault. Yes, our military struck sites outside of South Ossetia. When the positions of your peacekeepers and the civilian population they have been mandated to protect are shelled, the sources of such attacks are legitimate targets.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
Israel picked Russia. I suggest America do the same.
Georgia can’t give us rides to the ISS.
Hark, the modern day Molotov speaks...
Russia condemned Israel today for helping Georgia. Lots of good it did them siding with Russia.
What is the WSJ doing printing this cr*p?
Sergey is a liar. Russia has been pushing for this for some time and any “honest” observer knows that.
If Russia wants to force a choice, which is what they are doing, the West will choose Georgia and not the country that is threatening to nuke Poland etc.
Uh-huh. They got their soldiers, heavy tanks and heavy military equipment across the Caucasian mountains in the space of two days, using their flying carpets. And the navy and bombers were instantaneously mobilized in a similar miraculous manner. Quite a feat.
For me, I pick Georgia.
Screw the ISS.
L
Isn't this challenge a few days old now? Russia may have captured a few American vehicles - that should be returned. Georgia is an ally. Russia need to work on it...
Amen. Our grandfathers lived through this in the 40s, you would think we learned from that experience.
I've heard 3 accounts. The first is Russia entered Georgia before Georgian troops entered Ossetia. The other two have the Russian armored columns entering either 3 hours or 5 hours after Georgia moved to protect its citizens from Russian 'peace keepers' who were stationed in S. Ossetia. This 2 days thing sounds a little bit off. The death tolls are 40 S. Ossetians killed(including solders) compared to 250 ethnic Georgians(including solders). Russia has been lying from the beginning. I choose Georgia.
And of course this man has shown himself and his country to be the very cornerstone of trust and integrity.
Hope you are right, but I think of Taiwan.
Did you see my ping to you on the other thread and what you inspired me to do, for investment purposes BTW.
150 Tanks had already moved into Georgia within any where from 0 to 5 hours from when the alleged massacre took place. Compare that to how long it took the US to fly 2,000 Georgian troops back from Iraq.
Crash the ISS
“I suggest that Americans tell Russians to go piss up a rope.”
You mean the same advice the Poles gave them when they threatened them for getting a defensive weapon? I only hope our “elected managers” will have the same size cojones that the Poles do when the “Metal meets the meat.”
Georgia Solidarity for me too.
Doc
choosing between rule by law and rule by the secret police is an easy choice.
it’s a bit more complicated than either-or.
i see a lot of youngbloods here don’t remember the Cold War
and nuke attack drills...i grew up with that in grade school
Russia is still capable of inflicting series harm on us and we have to act accordingly and no matter how much folks here feel froggy over Georgia, our options are limited to less than direct military confrontation.
Bugger Russia. Their army is a collection of thugs. A good thing that the Georgians took out the Russian commander.
In a few months there will be a full inventory of all the tanks lost by Russia, and Putin will be assassinated. After all, there is no law, so no legal protection of him.
From nearly the first sentence Lavrov has it wrong. Ossetia is NOT part of Russia. At the very worst this would have been a Georgian civil war, but Russia had to turn it into an international incident. True enough Georgia might have handled it better, but it is a fact that Russia could have handled it better. As for the Russians waiting one or two days to attack, that is an absolute fantasy worthy of Walt Disney.
There is a great deal I don't know about this situation, but it just happens that Lavrov argued the few criteria I DO know about. I think he needs to stick to diplomacy. Lord knows, the ham-handed Russians can use all that they can get!!
WE need to be the next greatest generation and have enough of a backbone to do the right thing for the right reasons....and stick to our decision with unwavering conviction. (see tagline)
Russia (Putin) has picked for us, THANKS PUTIN, YAH AHOLE!
Catch Yah when youre swinging from a lamp post.
The Russian people deserve better, and sooner or later they will demand it.
If they adhere to the ‘realist’ school of international studies, which sometimes Condy shows that she’s one, I’m afraid they’re going to choose Russia over Georgia.
Nice if the Kosovo/Ossetia genie could somehow get put back in the bottle BEFORE the UN steps in demanding that we hand the American SouthWest over to Mexico on the same basis...
“Georgia didn’t attack South Ossetia until Russia was already in it, right???”
Actually Russian peacekeepers have been there since 1992 when they and Georgia signed a pact stating that Georgia would never use military force to retake the region.
I pick Georgia
Choosing Georgia or Russia is a false choice. The West has heard this kind of talk before - from Hitler, asking them to make a choice between Czechoslovakia or Germany; or Poland or Germany. The Russians are getting their tactics right from Hitler’s playbook: “German citizens are being attacked in the Sudetanland”; or “Germany is being attacked by Poland.”
Where does Russia go next? Ukraine? The Baltics? Poland?
Sadly, true.
And even more sadly, most of Europe has their oil/gas supplied by Russia. Not likely that they will stand up against Russia for Georgia. Winter in just around the corner. (wake up, America!!!)
I well remember those “get under the desk to protect yourself from fall out drills”. They could just have easily passed out umbrellas.
And simultaneously building their case in Ukraine even now.
Winter in=wnter is :)
sing it, Ray..
It's because Putin's a fascist. He probably goes to bed at night with "Mein Kampf" under his pillow.
The Ukraine seems to be next. There is a peninsula called the Crimean Peninsula where the Russian Black Sea fleet is based. The Russians lease the base from the Ukrainians (lease runs out, I think in 2012). Many of the people on the peninsula speak Russian, and I think Russia has given them Russian passports as well. Look to Russia “freeing” the Crimean Peninsula next.
Russia’s Flashback To 1968
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/18/AR2008081801852.html
If I remember correctly—and I do—the worst mistakes we made during the Cold War were when we tried to accommodate and “go along to get along”. We only really made progress when we confronted them-—via Ronald Reagan.
I remember the horrible films that were smuggled out of Hungary when the USSR invaded that country. I don't think anyone is ready to watch a redux of that. I also remember “Kill a Commie for Christ”-—in light of this last commie crap—not a bad sentiment.
So, I take it that Russia moved in “non-peacekeepers” and that triggered Georgia’s attack?
They're capable of inflicting serious harm on us and we are capable of demolishing them.
I remember the cold war all too well and have no intention of living the rest of my life on my belly, cringing before a bestial bully who would only create more situations, more confrontations until they reign supreme.
Fortunately you are NOT in charge of determining how we have to act nor how you will limit our options.
Unfortunately, neither am I in charge, but if I were: I CHOOSE THE RIGHT SIDE; I CHOOSE GEORGIA.
I am proud to stand at your side, Sal.
From your lips to God's ear, except I'd prefer it this week.
I wonder if anyone other than Putin the Poisoner knows how to access the $40B he "skimmed" off the Russian people. Pretty deep skim I'd say.
Actually you skipped the insignificant detail about how the Russian "peacekeepers" and Ossetians were shelling into Georgia.
Columbia doctor pleads for assistance to Georgia
"Despite the ceasefire today, the hospital in Gori and the University of Gori were bombed. All patients and staff were evacuated. We are taking them" in "at the National Gudushauri Medical Center. The first relief plane from Latvia carrying blood and plasma landed tonight in Armenia.…
Russia is a good guy?
Right, the Russians came to the Ossetians’ rescue when the Russian “peacekeepers” and Ossetians were shelling Georgia.
Georgia is not innocent here. Tensions have been high in the region long before Georgia was ever formed. On August 7th Georgia attacked with armor and artillery killing sleeping South Ossetian civilians. Their peacekeepers also turned on and killed Russian and South Ossetian peacekeepers. It was a horribly stupid move on their part.
Here is some background on South Ossetia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia
And some less biased prewar (2006) info:
http://www.opendemocracy.net/democracy-caucasus/south_ossetia_4100.jsp
Just because we are the US, and Russia is Russia, does not make Georgia any less stupid or reckless.
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