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Dead Babies

Is there any evidence that Obama has a brain? Whether you're looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question is above my pay grade.

"Thoughtful" and 'forcefully intellectual' Obama apparently can't forcefully remember his own voting record. He recently got rated the most left-wing member in the U.S. Senate but he was also the most pro-abortion/pro-infanticide member of the Illinois Senate.

As I wrote back in March, Obama:

-- Racked up a 100 percent rating from the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, as all "moderates" do.

-- Voted against limits on government funding of abortion and voted to get Illinois to endorse embryonic stem cell "research".

-- Voted against requiring medical care for babies who survive an abortion because he doesn't think the baby is a baby and saving a dying baby would interfere with a "woman's right to choose" and that it's not infanticide. Bringing America together, that Obama.

Mustering his best argument for abortion, Obama told Pastor Rick Warren that he doesn't know when a baby becomes human because, "whether you're looking at it from a theological or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity is above my pay grade," which means he leaves it to a higher authority to answer that -- Michelle. Yes, by all means, let's make this guy commander-in-chief! (Barack, not Michelle, that is.)

Obama quickly added that "the goal right now should be -- and this is where I think we can find common ground . . . is how do we reduce the number of abortions? The fact is that although we have had a president who is opposed to abortion over the last eight years, abortions have not gone down." According to Obama, since there were 1.31 million abortions performed in 2000, but 1.21 million in 2005, this means abortions had gone up! The latest published data (collected by the Guttmacher Institute) shows that the number of abortions had dropped every year during the period 2001 through 20005 (the latest year available). The total number of abortions performed in 2005 was 8 percent lower than in 2000. Among women aged 15 through 44, abortions were down 9 percent in 2005 compared to 2000.

Guttmacher bases its finding on a survey of all abortion providers in America. Obama bases his finding on a speech he gave in 2002.

In 2007, Obama promised pro-abortion groups that, as president, the very first bill he would sign is the "Freedom of Choice Act," which would eliminate all restrictions on abortion, at all levels of government. This must be Obama's plan to lower the number of abortions.

Obama spent the weekend running around accusing pro-life groups of doing what he does habitually -- lying. He told CBN (Christian Broadcasting Network) in an interview Saturday that the National Right to Life group was "lying" when they point out that a state anti-infanticide bill (which he voted against) mirrored exactly the federal Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which he falsely claims he would have voted for.

The federal bill -- after a 'Roe-neutral clause' was added -- passed without a single 'no' vote in both chambers and was signed into law in 2002, which records show was right around the time Obama finished Kindergarten. But, according to documents uncovered by the National Right to Life group, the state bill Obama voted to kill in his committee had exactly the same "neutrality clause" ("Senate Amendment No. 1") which Obama had been falsely claiming it lacked and that that was the reason he voted against it.

For four years, the Obamatrons had been claiming it's a lie and a smear to say that the state bill (BAIPA) that he voted against was identical to the federal bill -- then The Documents came to light. Just like liberals and Saddam claiming Iraq had no ties to terrorists, then captured documents come to light showing the opposite. What is it with these Husseins?

Obama apparently loves abortions so much, he's performing one on his own campaign. now shows McCain on top in the Electoral College, 274-264, leaning states included, even before the Saddleback effect fully kicks in. Up until recently, Obama was in the 300s. Right around this time in 2004, Kerry was ahead, 317-202 (H/t: Sean Hannity). Brand new LA Times/Bloomberg poll shows Obama's 12-point lead in June evaporating to a dead-heat currently.

If you're looking to pinpoint the moment Dukakis lost the '88 election, his botched answer to the death penalty question during the debates was it. Asked if his wife were raped and murdered, would he favor an irrevocable death penalty against the perp, a technocratic 'no, I wouldn't' was the best he could serve up. (He was obviously trying to shake away his chilly, technocratic image.) Put the same 'when does a baby get human rights' question to Dukakis, and it would be the same, 'sorry, ol' boy, can't answer, above my pay grade' pap that Obama offered up. The only difference being that, after giving his meandering answer, Obama's braincell was hurting.

Whether it's dead babies or what to do with Kitty Dukakis's hypothetical killer, libbies vault to the top as the least qualified to handle the moral clarity stuff. Which is why Dukakis II is going down in November, too.

Anyway, that's...
My Two Cents...

1 posted on 08/20/2008 2:11:44 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
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To: JohnHuang2
The most adamant pro-abort will at least agree babies acquire human rights when they have completely delivered.

Unfortunately not accurate. The true feminazis just think of it as a failed medical procedures that needs to be corrected.

Which is entirely logical. What, after all, is the real difference between a baby that is 80% born and has a partial-birth procedures performed on her, and one that is 100% born and then stuck in a closet to slowly die?

It is, however, interesting that apparently few or none even among abortionists have the moral courage to put the baby to sleep to end her suffering as we would for a dog in pain. In fact, someone who did this to a puppy would face serious jail time. Only legal when performed on human babies.

Apparently humans we're killing must die in the most painful and drawn-out way possible so we can pretend we aren't really killing them. Teri Schiavo being a case in point.

2 posted on 08/20/2008 2:41:54 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (qui)
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To: JohnHuang2

If Obama can not answer that question because “it is above his pay grade” then he has no business being a senator and voting for ANYTHING!

4 posted on 08/20/2008 4:03:55 AM PDT by blueyon (Every one should get their 15 mins under the bus)
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To: JohnHuang2

A package of Born Alive bills was introduced three times during Obama’s tenure.

The cornerstone bill was the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, which defined legal personhood. This definition was identical to the federal BAIPA (1) which was drafted from the definition of “live birth” created by the World Health Organization in 1950 (2) and adopted by the United Nations in 1955 (3)....

Here I will only post links to Obama’s actions and votes on the cornerstone bill, the Born Alive Infant Protection Act. The bill number changed every year it was reintroduced.


Senate Bill 1095 (4), Born Alive Infant Protection Act

Go here to view Obama’s “no” vote (5) in the Senate Judiciary Committee on March 28, 2001.

Transcript of Obama’s verbal opposition to Born Alive on the IL Senate floor (6), March 30, 2001, pages 84-90

Obama’s verbal oppostion to Born alive, (7) “And if we’re placing a burden on the doctor that says you have to keep alive even a previable child as long as possible and give them as much medical attention as — as is necessary to keep that child alive, then we’re probably crossing the lines in terms of unconstitutionality.” March 30, 2001

Obama’s “present” vote on the IL Senate floor ( 8 ), March 30, 2001


Senate Bill 1662 ( 9 ), Born Alive Infant Protection Act

Go here to view Obama’s “no” vote in the Senate Judiciary Committee (10) on March 6, 2002. (ABC inadvertently coped bill #1663, a companion bill. The vote for the Born Alive bill, #1662, was identical.)

Transcript of Obama’s verbal opposition to Born Alive on the IL Senate floor (11), April 4, 2002, pages 28-35

Obama’s “no” vote on the IL Senate floor (12), April 4, 2002


Senate Bill 1082 (13), Born Alive Infant Protection Act

Democrats took control of the IL Senate with the 2002 elections. They sent Born Alive to the infamously liberal Health & Human Services Committee, chaired by Barack Obama (14).

As can be seen on the Actions docket (15), Obama held Born Alive on March 6, 2003, from even being voted on in committee. It is also important to note from the docket that on March 13, 2003, Obama stopped the senate sponsor from adding the lately discussed clarification paragraph (16) from the federal BAIPA, to make the bills absolutely identical.

















5 posted on 08/20/2008 4:06:38 AM PDT by Joiseydude
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To: JohnHuang2

6 posted on 08/20/2008 4:43:57 AM PDT by Joiseydude
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To: JohnHuang2;; narses

Jill Stanek: "Barack Obama has painted himself into a corner by his vote against the Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection Act.... But Barack Obama couldn't bring himself to say, "At birth." He wouldn't confer human rights to newborns."

If you went back only a few months things looked very dire for Republicans and the conservative movement. Fred Thompson was out. The Iraq War and Bush-Cheney had very high negatives, were very unpopular. It looked like this was an easy year for the Democrats. Obama has changed all of that. He has turned out to be an appalling candidate.

Obama may be the best thing for the conservative movement in a long time. His campaign has provided hilarious gaffes and fodder for Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. He should be on Rush's payroll. You have to go back to Joycelyn Elders for gaffes like this.

Obama's abortion gaffe in the Saddleback Civil Forum may be a turning point in this election. He said this on national television and that clip should be replayed over and over again. Obama has become his own one-man OPERATION CHAOS He is quickly becoming the Jimmy Carter, George McGovern, and Michael Dukakis of 2008 which must be driving liberals nuts.

They went so bananas over McCain's superior performance in the Civil Forum they got obsessed on this idea he must have broken "the Cone of Silence" and cheated. It's like they're in a wacky episode of Get Smart. Obama lost the debate and they want to blame McCain.

And now Bill and Hillary will be back for two nights at the convention. With even Michelle giving a speech, providing an opportunity for more gaffes. They'll wish they had kept her muzzled in "the Cone of Silence." Someone needs to illustrate a gaffe chart for this campaign. Like the ones Frank Luntz uses for focus group approval and disapproval of candidates' answers in debates. How many points did Obama drop in the polls for the Berlin speech, the "bitter" comment about "clinging to guns and religion," and the Civil Forum?

7 posted on 08/20/2008 4:53:02 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: JohnHuang2

Apparently the Supreme Court is of the proper pay-grade.

8 posted on 08/20/2008 5:08:58 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
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To: JohnHuang2
Awesome post. Again.

NObama had to answer with a non-answer. If he answers 'at conception' he loses the pro-choice support. If he says 'at birth' he has to face his record.

Since he basically said..."I don't know' shows he has little in the way of convictions, and will sway which ever way the wind blows.

The Dhims really want him as leader of the Free World?

11 posted on 08/20/2008 6:04:00 AM PDT by Pistolshot (NO B.O.)
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To: JohnHuang2

Barack Obama could not tell the audience and America “when life begins” because that puts the argument of abortion into a moral delima.

While they can still NOT focus on whether it is a human being, they can look at the “bigger picture” of what happens after the baby/babies are born.

So they couch it in arguments of “a quality life” meaning everything from no birth defects (or POSSIBLY detected defects) to being a “wanted” child (some parents even “want” a child of one sex over another, “didn’t meet the chromosome test” I guess).

The father is on the hook for child support from conception up to the time the child turns 18 whether he wants the baby or not. The mother can shirk her own obligations to that child at any point and the father has no legal claim to the child. It is considered an “undue burden” to ask that she carry a child for 9 months but not to have a man carry the child and mother for 18 years.

We were told that the goal is to make abortion safe, legal, and rare.

Legal we have although some back alley clinics still operate (why is this). It is so legal that unlike a process like ear piercing (or navel piercing) or a trip to the dentist, a minor can obtain an abortion without parental consent.

Safe we don’t have as girls and women still die of internal hemoraging from abortions at licensed clinics. Has to be quite a shock to the parents when their daughters are dying from a botched abortion. What has the body count been on women who’ve died of botched abortions SINCE Roe v. Wade?

And 50 million abortions in America doesn’t sound “rare” to me. Neither does Whoopi Goldberg’s admitted “6 or 7” abortions.

12 posted on 08/20/2008 6:04:59 AM PDT by weegee (The higher taxes that Obama demands of Americans are 'Above my Pay Grade'.)
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To: JohnHuang2
The most adamant pro-abort will at least agree babies acquire human rights when they have completely delivered.

Professor Singer doesn't agree.

13 posted on 08/20/2008 6:30:49 AM PDT by arthurus
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To: JohnHuang2

I believe I understand why Obama failed so miserably at the Rick Warren Forum. And the Mainstream Media continues to try to defend Obama with all sorts of stupid commentary.

But, the real reason I believe he failed is that Obama is listening to the leadership in the Mainline Protestant churches for advice on how to win over the conservative church goers.

As you well know, three years ago the leaders of the Mainline Protestant churches (Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopal, Lutheran, and UCC) made a pact with the devil, so to speak, when they aligned themselves with Senator Harry Reid. The group’s mission was to get more church goers to vote for Democrats.

Well, Harry Reid and the other Democrats forgot one important fact.

Namely, the church goers do not listen to what leadership in the Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopal, Lutheran, and UCC churches have to say. Instead, many of the churchgoers in those denominations are leaving for greener fields.

Thus, I can envision Obama being prepared for the Saturday Night Massacre and the Mainline Protestant church leaders are telling Obama——“be sure to point out we are a ‘big tent’ country”, “be sure to never say ‘Jesus is the only way to salvation””, etc etc.

15 posted on 08/20/2008 10:20:05 AM PDT by Presbyterian Reporter
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To: JohnHuang2; Coleus; nickcarraway; narses; Mr. Silverback; Canticle_of_Deborah; ...
Many people have been watching this remarkable woman since she first went public about the Chicago hospital she worked at. After reading her account I watched Fr. Frank Pavone interview her. It was hard to believe her testimony. About “Christ Hospital” no less.

She’s already saved many babies, but now she will be one of the most important witnesses against Obama and will help save generations from his Marxist presidency. She's a true American hero.

Lets pray for Jill.

Pro-Life PING

Please FreepMail me if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.

16 posted on 08/20/2008 11:37:36 AM PDT by (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available FREE at
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To: JohnHuang2

BTW, it is so darn nice to see a John Huang2 thread again!

19 posted on 08/20/2008 12:33:21 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: JohnHuang2
This is a bigger picture in the U. S. voting population than it appears to the casual bystander.

Why Obama couldn't answer Warren's baby question
Smoking gun? Papers expose Obama's 'infanticide' vote

EXTRA: Archbishop Burke on Catholics who Support Abortion
Senator Barack Obama Wants You to Pay for Abortions
US Bishops Look at Election
John McCain Will Not Pick Pro-Abortion Running Mate, Rules Out Tom Ridge
Vote for Real Hope and Change [Archbishop Chaput]
Catholics who support abortion should not receive Communion, says Archbishop Burke (again :-)
CNN Again Omits Part of the Story Concerning Obama’s Abortion Votes

Obama Flunks Rick Warren's Abortion Question
Obama and the Black American Family Don’t Jibe [Abortion]
Obama Caught Red-Handed in Abortion Lie
Archbishop Naumann hopes Obama realizes Sebelius is a bad Catholic advisor
Obama Facing Attacks From All Sides Over Abortion Record

Barack Obama - Abortion Extremist
Barack Obama lied about babies ‘Born Alive’ vote then smeared Corsi
Babies' Rights and the Definition of Marriage [re: Forum responses by Obama vs. McCain]
Opinion: Doug Kmiec on McCain v. Obama at Saddleback

Obama Cover-up on Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Continues to Unravel...
Life Lies: Barack Obama and Born-Alive
Operation Rescue founder to distribute new flyer: "Is it Immoral to Vote for Obama for President?"
Obama Calls Pro-Lifers Liars
Obama Jun 15: “fathers…at conception” August 16 “answering that question is above my pay grade”

Niece of Martin Luther King Jr. to Lead Prayer Vigil Outside Largest U.S. Abortion Centre
Campaign Admits Obama Lied About Abortion Vote, Media Asleep
Obama “pay grade” comment purposely ignores SCIENTIFIC FACT that LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION
Barack Obama Repeats False Claim Abortions Haven't Declined Under Bush
Obama and Abortion

Obama Says Right to Life Coalition Is Lying About His Record
Barack Obama Says Pro-Life Group Lying About His Pro-Infanticide Votes
Obama's infanticide problem>
Obama and McCain Woo Catholics
Obama's Christian Creds Vs. Abortion and Infanticide

Obama's 10 reasons for supporting infanticide
Mommy Won't Help Dems on Abortion
Abortion Leader Confirms that Democratic Platform is More Pro-Abortion than Ever
Obama More Than An Abortion Radical
Obama’s Abortion Lies (Obama cover-up on born-alive survivors bill)

Life with Obama: Abortion champion
Knighting the Catholic Vote (K of C urging Catholics to vote pro-life)
Linda Chavez: Obama’s Catholic problem
Catholic Voters and 2008
Barack Obama Supports the Murder of Newborn Infants

Obama Lied About Abortion Record
What Barack Obama defended three times: Live Birth Abortion
[OPEN] Supreme K of C Calls for Real "Change" on Abortion and Catholic Revolt against Obama Nation
Obama's Catholic Problem ( Linda Chavez )
Obama’s View on Abortion May Divide Catholics ( "May Divide?" )

Obama loses 26 points among Catholics
Barack Obama's Wife Michelle to Join Hillary Clinton at Pro-Abortion Dinner
OPINION: Senator Obama and the Wall of the Womb
Barack Obama's Pledge to Overturn Every Pro-Life Abortion Law One Year Old
Obama Worse than Clintons on Abortion Says National Right to Life Leader Interview-SCOTUS Critical

Roman Catholics for Obama '08
How can Catholics for Obama rationalize their support for the pro-choice candidate?
Obama’s director of Catholic Outreach ‘dodges’ opportunity to reach Catholics
Barack Obama Slams John McCain For Opposing Abortion, Activist Judges

Catholics and Obama
COMMENTARY: Quandry for Catholics At Election Time
The Latest Refinement (Obama on Abortion)
CNN Runs Biased News Story Covering Up Barack Obama’s Pro-Abortion Record
Jill Stanek: Obama's biggest lie about supporting infanticide
The Battle for Catholic Voters

New Report Indicates Voters Most Interested in Barack Obama’s Position on Abortion
Deal Hudson: Obama and Infanticide?
Ad asks Obama: ‘If fatherhood begins at conception, when does life begin?’
Embryonic stem-cell research immoral, unnecessary, bishops say
Catholics should not vote for Obama
Catholic Caucus: It is a sin to vote/support Obama/DNC [abortion]

More Catholics leaning towards Democrats, poll reports (really not Catholics)
The Catholic-Obama Problem (Pope Benedict XVI instructs Catholics about pro-abortion candidates)
Obama's Abortion Bombshell: Unrestricted Abortion....
NARAL Catholics Line Up for Obama
Editorial: Disagreeing with Doug Kmiec One More Time
State-Funded Embryo Research "Makes Taxpayers Complicit in Killing", say Bishops

McCain Meets Privately with Fr. Pavone - Says Constitutional Right to Life Applies to Unborn
Faithful Citizenship: “Catholic Vote” is very sought after
Has Obama dissolved his Catholic advisory council?
Commentary: Faithful Citizenship and the Formed Conscience
Catholic League: Where's Obama's 'Catholic Advisory Council'? [Not to be found!]
Right-wing Christians beginning to lean left (Misleading headline)

Catholics Debate Obama Vote
US Bishops Urge Voters to Give Priority to Life [Ecumenical]
Corralling the Catholic vote: Political necessity or pipe dream?
DOUG KMIEC: Catholic Reasons for Hope in the General Election
EDITORIAL: Why This Catholic Dreads the Campaign
The Catholic-Obama Problem (Pope Benedict XVI instructs Catholics about pro-abortion candidates)
Thoughts On ‘Roman Catholics For Obama’

How Obama's Catholics Will Dodge the Infanticide Question
Catholic Pro-Life Leader Feuds With Barack Obama's "Catholic" Backers
McCain and the Pope: McCain cannot win in November without the Catholic vote (Reagan re-visited?)
Catholics Cannot Vote for Pols Who Support Abortion, Except for Morally Grave Reasons: KY Bishops

23 posted on 08/20/2008 2:52:23 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: JohnHuang2; antonius

24 posted on 08/20/2008 2:53:12 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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