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Noah's Ark - Fact Not Fiction
http://rsanoa.home.comcast.net/~rsanoa/ark_summary.htm ^ | Ray Anderson

Posted on 08/22/2008 9:59:31 AM PDT by Fennie

In 1943 during WW2, an army Sgt., Ed Davis, was working in Iran near the Turkish border, in charge of locals hired by our army to build a road through Iran to the Soviet border, which would carry supplies to the Soviets instead of flying them in.

In short, Ed did a tremendous favor for a little Kurdish village near Ararat. His workers were mostly Kurds and the chief of the village came to Ed and asked if he would like to see Noah's Ark. He said the summer on the mountain had been hottest in many years and the Ark was visible for the first time in years...


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1 posted on 08/22/2008 9:59:32 AM PDT by Fennie
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To: Fennie

bump for later.


2 posted on 08/22/2008 10:08:17 AM PDT by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard
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To: Fennie

Very interesting.
But with all the interest over the years, why hasn’t anyone, including the author of the article, taken some decent photographs? You’d think that would have been a priority if someone was going to spend all the time and money going to see if it is really Noah’s Ark. Instead, all we have are some very poor photos that remind me of UFO or Bigfoot sightings.


3 posted on 08/22/2008 10:08:27 AM PDT by XR7
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To: Fennie

Great, but who’s job was it to shovel all the............, never mind.


4 posted on 08/22/2008 10:08:51 AM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (If everyone stays home and no one votes will Congress disappear?)
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To: Fennie

We went through all this publicly 20 years ago, same pictures and everything. It was found to false.


5 posted on 08/22/2008 10:10:44 AM PDT by mikeus_maximus (In matters of style, swim with the current.; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.-- Thomas J)
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To: XR7
...why hasn’t anyone, including the author of the article, taken some decent photographs?

I think we both know the answer to that.

6 posted on 08/22/2008 10:11:39 AM PDT by mgstarr ("Some of us drink because we're not poets." Arthur (1981))
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To: Fennie

Thanks. Appreciate your search. Don’t need proof.


7 posted on 08/22/2008 10:11:51 AM PDT by wizr ("Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition." - Chaplain Maguire, Pearl Harbor, 1941)
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To: XR7

Artifacts of Christianity/Judaism have, as a rule, not been preserved, despite the fact that you can buy a forest full of “pieces of the cross” when visiting the area...


8 posted on 08/22/2008 10:12:28 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Fennie

Whats a Cubit?

9 posted on 08/22/2008 10:13:43 AM PDT by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
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To: Fennie

As far as I know, armadillos don’t swim. Wonder how they made it to Texas from Mt. Ararat?


10 posted on 08/22/2008 10:13:56 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Vaquero

Am I on Candid Camera???


11 posted on 08/22/2008 10:16:05 AM PDT by txroadkill (Liberals believe that the only oppressed people in Cuba are the terrorist in GitMo)
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To: Vaquero

“Just make it rain for 40 days, and 40 nights, and wait for the sewers to back up.”


12 posted on 08/22/2008 10:16:53 AM PDT by wbill
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To: Fiji Hill
As far as I know, armadillos don’t swim. Wonder how they made it to Texas from Mt. Ararat?

Duh....Texas was spared, God would never punish his favorite State. It's in the Bible.

13 posted on 08/22/2008 10:23:00 AM PDT by txroadkill (Liberals believe that the only oppressed people in Cuba are the terrorist in GitMo)
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To: Fiji Hill

Oh, they swim. As ten year old kids, a friend and I hiked about a mile into some woods alongside a river in SE Oklahoma (Skunk ape territory), our second camp out without supervision. We set up camp with some lightweight cots and little else. In the middle of a sleepless moonless night, we heard something drop into the river just upstream and across the river from us. We heard loud splashing as the ‘thing’ slowly made it across the river. We couldn’t see a thing as the fire had died down, but within a minute or two I heard my buddy screaming like a little girl. Something was under his cot and bucking wildly trying to get out from under. I found a flashlight and was able to see that the ‘thing’ was a very wet armadillo. So, yes, I happen to know that an armadillo CAN swim.


14 posted on 08/22/2008 10:23:12 AM PDT by metalcor
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To: Fiji Hill

They walked


15 posted on 08/22/2008 10:23:28 AM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty; The Pendleton 8: We are not going down without a fight)
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To: RaceBannon

There’s also a fair amount of evidence for dispersion of animals and plants by rafting in the early post-flood era. Biogeography shows that flora and fauna tended to cross oceans via ocean currents from one shore to another. There would have been a great deal of floating plant material for several decades (depending on the tree species) after the flood.


16 posted on 08/22/2008 10:27:21 AM PDT by Liberty1970
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To: RaceBannon

There’s also a fair amount of evidence for dispersion of animals and plants by rafting in the early post-flood era. Biogeography shows that flora and fauna tended to cross oceans via ocean currents from one shore to another. There would have been a great deal of floating plant material for several decades (depending on the tree species) after the flood.


17 posted on 08/22/2008 10:27:23 AM PDT by Liberty1970
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To: txroadkill

Touché!


18 posted on 08/22/2008 10:28:22 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: XR7

The area is in contested territory from what I understand and no one can get in there without being shot at these days.

I don’t know the full details of who is contesting what, but that’s the last thing I heard about the region.


19 posted on 08/22/2008 10:29:33 AM PDT by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Please visit for latest on Russia/China/DPRK et al.)
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To: Fennie
I should point out that the Bible does not say the Ark landed on Ararat - only in the general region. Ararat itself is a post-flood volcano, so these claimed sightings cannot be accurate. There was a paper on this subject at the latest International Conference on Creationism a few weeks ago. (Sorry...)

During one of the warmer periods around a thousand years ago there may have been a monastery with wooden construction high on the slopes that later became engulfed in the glacier, which might explain some of the sightings and evidence.

20 posted on 08/22/2008 10:30:11 AM PDT by Liberty1970
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To: Vaquero

Love that routine ... from a brilliant mind and a truly great man.


21 posted on 08/22/2008 10:31:12 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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This is probably what happened:

Looking around Noah takes a good look at the ark which is now empty of animals.

Noah: "Looks like we survived, praise be to God. What a muddy mess. Shem, get some of that rice stored in the ark and start planting. Japheth, you plant some wheat. Ham, you gather the sheep and goats and watch over them. The children can get eggs from the chickens and watch over the rest of the livestock, make sure those baby tyrannosauruses don't eat them all."

Mrs. Japheth: "I ain't living in that ark with Mrs. Ham. I'm sick of her!" She did nothing but moan and complain the whole 40 days and nights.

Mrs. Ham: "Well I ain't gonna live in that ark anymore with you neither, you spiteful hag!"

Mrs. Shem: "You both are getting on my nerves. Just shut up will you?"

Noah: "That is ENOUGH! Now we all know the northlands are frozen, no use going up there. Shem, take your family and 1/3 of the ark wood and go east. Ham, take your family and 1/3 of the wood go south. Japheth, you go west. Me, I'll just stay here on the mountain and keep tending these grape vines, tee-hee.

It is almost certain the ark was dismantled for firewood and building material. They just survived a disaster so that is what they would have done.

22 posted on 08/22/2008 10:34:24 AM PDT by figetyfiggs
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To: Rick.Donaldson
Speaking of Noah's Ark, check this out. Very interesting. Noah's Ark
23 posted on 08/22/2008 10:36:36 AM PDT by Newfy
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To: Vaquero

Beautiful! I love the old stuff.

...............Riiight..............


24 posted on 08/22/2008 10:40:10 AM PDT by HeadOn (NObama!)
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To: Vaquero
Whats a Cubit?

Hahahahaha!!!! Thanks for the memory!

FMCDH(BITS)

25 posted on 08/22/2008 10:43:27 AM PDT by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: Fiji Hill

Horses are strong swimmers, surely better than armadillos. Why then didn’t the unicorns survive?


26 posted on 08/22/2008 10:50:34 AM PDT by Zauber
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To: Vaquero

About 20 inches, I think..


27 posted on 08/22/2008 10:56:21 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: Zauber
As soon as it started raining the unicorns evolved into narwhals.

Duh.

28 posted on 08/22/2008 10:58:43 AM PDT by Rammer
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To: Vaquero; txroadkill; All

Riiiight.
Who is this, really?


29 posted on 08/22/2008 11:07:14 AM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (My spiritual advisor is a lawyer.)
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To: Vaquero

LOL......been a long time since I’ve heard that.


30 posted on 08/22/2008 11:07:33 AM PDT by LasVegasMac (Islam: Bringing the world death and destruction for 1400 years!)
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To: mikeus_maximus

Yep, it turned out to be the remains of an old monastary built from wood. Not the ark...


31 posted on 08/22/2008 11:09:15 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("We must not forget that there is a war on and our troops are in the thick of it!"--Duncan Hunter)
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To: Zauber

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EPsuOEH1fY

The Unicorn Song explains everything.


32 posted on 08/22/2008 11:10:22 AM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (My spiritual advisor is a lawyer.)
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To: Fennie

It was shiny and there were little silver men with big heads who washed and waxed it.


33 posted on 08/22/2008 11:12:28 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Vaquero

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0KHt8xrQkk

The full uncut “Noah.”


34 posted on 08/22/2008 11:12:29 AM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (My spiritual advisor is a lawyer.)
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To: Vaquero

What’s an ark?


35 posted on 08/22/2008 11:21:22 AM PDT by Sudetenland (Those diplomats serve best, who serve as cannon fodder to protect our troops!)
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To: Liberty1970
Excellent point. There's also a fair amount of evidence that Noah himself provided each animal with an energy bar to survive their six month "raft" trip on some "floating plant material."

Thanks for helping to get the word out!
36 posted on 08/22/2008 11:24:56 AM PDT by aNYCguy
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To: Fennie
Genesis 6:19-20

19- And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

20- Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind; two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

Genesis 7: 1-3

1-And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

2-Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

Not to be a stinker on this thread, but which one of these accounts is correct?

37 posted on 08/22/2008 11:25:50 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("We must not forget that there is a war on and our troops are in the thick of it!"--Duncan Hunter)
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To: Fiji Hill
Wonder how they made it to Texas from Mt. Ararat?

Assuming one believes in God, such a task would be small potatoes to Him.

38 posted on 08/22/2008 11:29:05 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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To: Fennie

bump


39 posted on 08/22/2008 11:29:16 AM PDT by MANO
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To: Fennie
"He said the summer on the mountain had been hottest in many years and the Ark was visible for the first time in years..."

Thank God for Global Warming !

Somehow, I just knew Global Warming couldn't "just" be man made.. ;-p

40 posted on 08/22/2008 11:41:08 AM PDT by austinmark (** Never Underestimate the Power of Stupid People in Large Groups ! **)
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To: Fennie

read later


41 posted on 08/22/2008 11:52:49 AM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: Fennie

You must have very broad definition for the word “Fact.’


42 posted on 08/22/2008 12:05:56 PM PDT by Uncle Slayton (Texan Pride)
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To: Uncle Slayton

Several years ago National Geographic had a picture of what could possibly be the ark. The shape of a boat, mostly rotted away, was found high on a mountain, not Ararat but a different mountain in the same range. There was also evidence in the area of people having lived there.


43 posted on 08/22/2008 12:39:58 PM PDT by webboy45
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To: metalcor
but within a minute or two I heard my buddy screaming like a little girl. Something was under his cot

Of course, being a well-mannered future Freeper, you never mentioned this to him again, did you :-)

44 posted on 08/22/2008 12:58:28 PM PDT by Notary Sojac (America's never won a "war" unless the enemy was named using a proper noun.)
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To: Fennie

Where’s the beef? No physical evidence, no case.

Many biblical tales are based, at least in part, of some factual event, but at least so far there hasn’t been any solid evidence that Noah’s ark has been found. If it happens, and can be proven, great. Until then...


45 posted on 08/22/2008 1:11:43 PM PDT by navyguy (Some days you are the pigeon, some days you are the statue.)
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To: figetyfiggs
Actually according to the Bible they were cooped up on the ark more than 40 days...at least 244 days if you add up the intervals, but the text has the flood start on the 17th day of the second month of the 600th year of Noah's life (Gen. 7.11) and the "earth was dry" on the 27th day of the second month of the 601st year of Noah's life (Gen. 8.14), after which they left the ark, so the whole time was a year and 10 days.

Of course by the lunar calendar that may have been a year of 354 days.

46 posted on 08/22/2008 1:39:46 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Wow, I’m impressed. Did you uncover that discrepency recently and by yourself? Or did somebody else point it out to you? The fact is that particular alleged historical discrepency of the Bible - in addition at a minimum 900 others - has been floating around the internet since at least 1874 (they already in extensive circulation at that time). If that’s the best that you can do, I suggest that you acquire a century old (or older) treatise on higher criticism. At least those arguments against the inspiration of Scripture had some depth.

First off, if seven of *some* are taken, than two of *each* kind ARE taken. There is no contradiction stated. A manifest contradiction would require a statement that two of some kind NOT be taken! Secondly, there is a gap of about 120 years between the two injunctions. The first injunction was for animals to be taken in pairs. The second being a stipulation for the number of pairs.

The New Oxford Annotated Bible (as well as other commentators) states that the priestly tradition of the Flood story mentions two animals of every sort whereas the early tradition differentiates between clean (7 pairs) and unclean animals (2 pairs), as well as birds (7 pairs). The priestly tradition is allegedly reflected in Gen 7:9 (where two by two is mentioned), whereas the verses from Gen 8 are otherwise a continuation of the early tradition.

Ancient historians study ancient texts and their transmission. Intellectually honest ancient historians know that there simply is no way for anyone to know that the “priestly tradition” did not mention the seven pairs, since we do not have the full priestly story (if such even existed), only the excerpts that were included in the transmitted text. It would not appear appropriate to claim that an absurdity that “may” be in a lost “priestly story” is the same thing as an actual absurdity in the Bible. This is all the more so when one considers the ambiguity of the language. 7:9 says simply that all the animals “were brought two and two” into the ark - which grammatically (in the Greek and Hebrew) can mean two each or two at a time. To assume that “two each” is meant requires making assumptions about the context of the priestly story that no longer exists, and that is never an accepted practice by ancient historians unless there are genuinely good reasons to do so.

Greek and Hebrew texts, in conjunction with the appropriate lexical aids, shows the wording of the verse, literally translated, is “take seven, seven, male, female” (it is literally that terse). There is no sound reason to suppose that the repetition of “seven” followed by a reference to a natural pairing means anything other than seven pairs (seven males, seven females), unless the seventh animal was a slug or something.

Wilson’s Old Testament Word Studies says that “seven” represents “either a definite number, or sometimes indefinite, to denote abundance or sufficiency” so that “’By sevens’ stands in the original ‘seven seven.’” Thus, “seven seven” can or does mean “by sevens.” Therefore, there is (or may be some) ambiguity, an ambiguity that would explain why it is that some commentators say that it was seven animals, not seven pairs, that was meant by “seven seven.”

On the other hand, verse 7:9 states “they went two, two, male, female” and that is ambiguous enough to allow three interpretations: the “two, two” may simply describe how they were loaded (two at a time), or that they went in male-female pairs (the second” two” merely being emphatic), or that there were four each, two males and two females. Verses 6:19-20 both repeat “bring pairs, male, female,” which can just as easily be a description of procedure (”two at a time”) as of number (”two and no more”). The Hebrew is as ambiguous as the English word “fly” (which can be a verb or a noun, and sometimes with no way to tell except through interpretive guessing, e.g. “fruit flies like a banana”). The point is that we are obligated to grant the author that he tried to establish extra clean animals when these same animals turn up again in the story, and we are left to wonder why these animals were loaded in excess, if not for the fact that they were for ritual use.

My point is that when I read a novel and find a similar confusion, I automatically look for what makes the most sense of what is written, not what creates the clearest contradiction. Why should we be less charitable with the Bible?


47 posted on 08/22/2008 2:06:22 PM PDT by raygun
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To: figetyfiggs
Q. What's harder than getting a pregnant Brontosaurus into the ark?

A. Getting a Brontosaurus pregnant in the ark!

(Noah! Make them stop. I'm getting seasick!)

48 posted on 08/22/2008 4:14:40 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: XR7

He keeps gettin’ chased away by Freemasons. :-P


49 posted on 08/22/2008 6:58:33 PM PDT by uglybiker (I do not suffer from mental illness. I quite enjoy it, actually.)
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To: raygun
Wow, I’m impressed. Did you uncover that discrepency recently and by yourself?

Now, now...it's not fair to respond until the gentle poster has recovered from the fatigue of vigorously patting themselves upon the back after making a pretty mudpie.
50 posted on 08/22/2008 9:38:53 PM PDT by beezdotcom
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