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We Should Have Trampled on Georgia (RUSSIA LOYAL TO KREMLIN)
Der Spiegel ^ | 08/22/08 | Carmen Eller

Posted on 08/23/2008 2:57:47 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster

'We Should Have Trampled on Georgia'

By Carmen Eller in Moscow

A quick war is the best propaganda: The conflict in the Caucasus has further strengthened the Putin-Medvedev leadership duo, according to new polls. Many Russians are hoping the pair will continue leading the country back toward's super-power status and that they will pursue that aim more energetically.

"Alexander" is the first caller on the "Curve" morning show at Echo of Moscow, a radio station critical of the government. The young listener is the first to be given the opportunity to answer the host's question about the Caucasus conflict: "Did this war make Russia stronger?"

AFP Kremlin loyal youth protest in Moscow against Georgia and the EU with a signed reading, "Sakkashvili is a criminal."

The connection isn't great and there's fuzz in the background as he declares: "The stronger person is always more respected, and Russia has become stronger." His country may be finding itself in an increasingly isolated position internationally, but you can still hear the pride in his voice. And this young Moscow resident is far from alone in his opinion. The strong state is enjoying tremendous popularity.

For many Russians, the economic crisis of the 1990s remains a painful memory. The economic upswing that happened under Vladimir Putin's terms as the Kremlin chief not only improved the country's material situation, but also helped promote a new sense of self-confidence. That has also been evident in the days following the war in the Caucasus. In direct contrast to the Western view, Russians have emphasized the fact that the Georgians started the offensive and the war.

(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: caucasus; geopolitics; georgia; popularsupport; propaganda; putin; russia

1 posted on 08/23/2008 2:57:48 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: TigerLikesRooster
More here.
2 posted on 08/23/2008 3:00:11 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: TigerLikesRooster; Tailgunner Joe; Jet Jaguar; monkapotamus; AmericanInTokyo; All

I think those party supporters belong to Vlady party


3 posted on 08/23/2008 3:04:50 PM PDT by SevenofNine ("We are Freepers, all your media belong to us, resistence is futile")
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To: 1rudeboy

The *Lonestar State* could kick their ass.


4 posted on 08/23/2008 3:06:55 PM PDT by wolfcreek (I see miles and miles of Texas....let's keep it that way.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Lust for power and pride will be their downfall.

I wonder if Russia will ever learn.

5 posted on 08/23/2008 3:13:36 PM PDT by MarMema (Georgia has stood for freedom around the world -- now the world must stand for freedom in Georgia.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

That center protester chick is definatley not guilty.


6 posted on 08/23/2008 3:19:01 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th
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To: MarMema
This shows that Putin has indeed mind of no more than KGB lieutenant colonel.

The moment he got some load of cash, he went out for playing Soviet Union.

7 posted on 08/23/2008 3:19:09 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (kim jong-il, chia head, ppogri, In Grim Reaper we trust)
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To: Repeal The 17th

Never Guilty


8 posted on 08/23/2008 3:25:57 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (kim jong-il, chia head, ppogri, In Grim Reaper we trust)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Georgia: Tbilisi Says Russian Officers Behind Gori Bombing
By Jean-Christophe Peuch

Georgian officials on 25 July blamed Russian intelligence operatives for a recent series of attacks in the South Caucasus country. Those attacks include a fatal car bombing in Gori, the main city of the Shida Kartli region, near the separatist region of South Ossetia. Russia denies any involvement in the attacks, and has labeled the charges a provocation. The accusations are not likely to ease Georgia's already troubled relations with Russia.

Prague, 26 July 2005 (RFE/RL) — Georgian Interior Minister Vano Merabishvili, speaking in Gori on 25 July, announced the arrest last week of two suspects in a 1 February blast that claimed the lives of three police officers.

“I would like to express my thanks to the counter-intelligence department, which has demonstrated an exceptional professionalism in the past six months, identifying and [eventually] arresting the people who carried out this terrorist attack,” Merabishvili said. “The two individuals who parked that notorious car here and then blew it up have been arrested and will be brought to justice under Georgian laws.”

Merabishvili said six additional suspects are being sought in connection with the case. A third man was arrested on 25 July.

Georgian officials had long suspected South Ossetian separatists were responsible for the blast.

But Georgian analysts have said they believe the blast could be linked to infighting among rival Gori-based criminal groups controlling smuggling operations to and from South Ossetia. Several regional police officials — including Shida Kartli police chief Aleko Sukhitashvili, the alleged target of the bombing — were dismissed on suspicion of corruption in March.

Merabishvili on 25 July said confessions obtained from the two detainees had helped investigators determine the Gori attack had been planned by a man he identified as Colonel Anatolii Sysoev of the Russian Army's Main Intelligence Directorate, or GRU.

The interior minister was joined by Givi Targamadze, who heads the Georgian Parliament's Defense and Security Committee.

Targamadze accused Russia of using South Ossetia as a base for carrying out a number of sabotage operations against Georgian interests — including attacks last year on the country's electricity grid that caused severe power outages.

“It is very unfortunate that our suspicions regarding Russia's possible direct involvement in our internal conflict [with South Ossetia] have proved founded,” Targamadze said. “[The Russians] are directly training groups of saboteurs. We said in the past that we had information in regard to this. These groups are quite large, numbering — according to our information — about 120 people. In addition, there are quite a lot of [Russian] agents on Georgian territory.”

The Interior Ministry later released a police video purporting to show one of the detainees admitting to playing a role in the Gori attack.

Investigators have identified the man as Gia Valishvili, an ethnic Georgian who said he recently changed his name to Valiev. In the video, Valiev described how he and his accomplices organized the attack, planting 70 kilograms of TNT in a car left outside the Gori police headquarters.

Valiev claimed the mastermind of the attack was a Russian, a man whom he identifies simply as Igor. In the video, Valiev said Igor suggested the explosives be connected to a detonator hidden in a cigarette pack in the car's glove box.

“The explosives had a special detonator that Igor had prepared,” Valiev said. “The mechanism was hidden in a pack of Yava cigarettes. Two wires were protruding from the pack and were connected to an explosive capsule. On the side of the pack was a switch. After the mechanism was activated, it would go off within 15 minutes if neither the car nor the pack were moved. If the car or the pack was moved, it would go off within two hours.”

Valiev never mentions Anatolii Sysoev by name. But Georgian investigators say the GRU operative is the same man Valiev identifies as Igor.

In a fresh police video released on 26 July, Valiev told investigators that Igor and other GRU operatives had established a headquarters with Russian peacekeepers in the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali.

“In the second half of 2004, around 15 August, the GRU took us to the Daryal Gorge in [neighboring] North Ossetia,” Valiev said. “We were trained at the 58th [Russian] army base. Our instructors were Russian. They taught us how to fire various weapons, assault rifles in particular, how to lay mines and use various pieces of heavy equipment. There were some 90 of us from [South] Ossetia at the base.”

Georgian officials have been careful not to implicate the Russian government in the attack. But the allegations have still sparked anger in Moscow.

Yevgenii Ivanov, a spokesman for the Russian Embassy in Tbilisi, rejected suggestions his country could be behind the Gori attack.

“We categorically deny any possible involvement of Russian officials, or [government] institutions, in any illegal action committed on Georgian territory,” Ivanov said.

In comments made to Russia's state-controlled Channel One television, Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Vyacheslav Sedov also rejected Merabishvili's accusations.

Sedov said Moscow is “accustomed to seeing the Georgians make mountains out of molehills.” In this case, he added, there wasn't even a molehill to begin with.

In a statement, the Russian Foreign Ministry said Tbilisi's claims “would neither help normalize the situation in South Ossetia, nor contribute to the further development of Russian-Georgian ties.”

Relations between Georgia and Russia have long been tense, despite the mild rapprochement that followed Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili’s election in 2004.

Tbilisi accuses Russia of supporting separatist regimes in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, while Moscow blames Georgia for allegedly allowing Chechen militants onto its territory.

Addressing an emergency security meeting in Tbilisi, Saakashvili on 25 July praised investigators for arresting suspects in connection with the Gori bombing. But he said claims that Russian individuals are involved in the attack should not harm ties with Moscow.

“I would like to stress that although there are clear indications that foreign citizens were involved in these operations — and we have ample documented evidence of that — I want everyone to know that we all have that information, but that we don't want to use it for confrontation,” Saakashvili said. “We don't want cooperation with Russia [in the anti-terrorism fight] to turn into confrontation. We want full cooperation with the Russian Federation, with its appropriate services and their heads, as well as with [its] government on issues related to the fight against terrorism.”

Meanwhile, Russian media on 26 July said Georgia's accusations are likely to prompt increased tensions between Moscow and Tbilisi.

In a commentary, Russia's state-controlled Radio Mayak said the claims are “absurd” and that there are no possible motives for Moscow to be involved.

Other Russian media note that Targamadze and other Georgian officials have also suggested Moscow might be behind a recent failed grenade attack on U.S. President George W. Bush during a visit to Tbilisi in May.

An ethnic Armenian resident of Tbilisi, identified as 27-year-old Vladimir Arutyunian, was arrested last week on suspicion of throwing a Russian-made device at Bush and Saakashvili while the two presidents were addressing a large crowd on Tbilisi’s Freedom Square. The grenade reportedly failed to go off due to a malfunction.

Although Arutyunian has suggested in a police video that he acted alone, Georgian investigators on 25 July said they were looking for possible accomplices.

9 posted on 08/23/2008 3:27:31 PM PDT by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

From the article it appears that only 30 per cent of the population is functional.

IOW 70% deserve what they are about to get.


10 posted on 08/23/2008 3:28:09 PM PDT by Sal (Pyrrhic Pooty just took Russia down to a 3rd class, 3rd world POS country that is dying.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Russia and its government have disappointed many people who invested effort to learn their language and establish business relationships.

The long-term result of the foray into Georgia will not be the enhanced national power and stature Putin or his supporters imagine.

11 posted on 08/23/2008 3:30:27 PM PDT by Tax Government (Let the 100-year boycott of Russia begin now.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Hmm..maybe a different take on the article, but Russia has talk radio call in shows?

Really?

I’m a touch stunned at that, Czarina Putin...my goodness I could hear Rush and Savage tearing Czarina a new one over all this, that show apparently is a pro Nationalist Russia one..


12 posted on 08/23/2008 3:33:42 PM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ Romans 10.10/Eze 11.2/Biden/Obama bye bye RTKBA)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I really think she really loves me.


13 posted on 08/23/2008 3:35:39 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th
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To: TigerLikesRooster

I really think she really loves me.


14 posted on 08/23/2008 3:35:47 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th
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To: Repeal The 17th
She is mine. Leave her alone

I love././//// her laslkdklnflanlkvn knaf v,m adddgas

Darn it Sherry stop hitting me while I am posting on FR.

15 posted on 08/23/2008 3:57:07 PM PDT by highpockets
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Yes I meant spiritually because I am an Orthodox Christian and I had thought the church would revive and restore Russia.

But it seems they have once again turned their backs on God and are more interested in greed and power.

16 posted on 08/23/2008 3:57:31 PM PDT by MarMema (Georgia has stood for freedom around the world -- now the world must stand for freedom in Georgia.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
1. The Russian people - as during the Cold War - hear completely one-sided news. There is no free press.

2. The Russian body politic has a history of paranoia/conspiracy theorizing. This is not to say that Russian individuals lack intelligence or hospitality. It's when they get together that the Stupid comes out. My theory is that this sort of dichotomy is true of any culture that evolved in harsh climates (see also: Arabs).

17 posted on 08/23/2008 3:57:42 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: Tax Government
Russia and its government have disappointed many people who invested effort to learn their language and establish business relationships. The long-term result of the foray into Georgia will not be the enhanced national power and stature Putin or his supporters imagine.

They've already lost money from investors pulling out and it's going to do nothing but get worse. That's what I meant by deserving what they're going to get. Act like gangsters, get treated like gangsters.

18 posted on 08/23/2008 4:00:26 PM PDT by Sal (Pyrrhic Pooty just took Russia down to a 3rd class, 3rd world POS country that is dying.)
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To: highpockets

Oh well, probably more than I could handle anyway.
Don’t come running to me when she takes all your stuff.


19 posted on 08/23/2008 4:00:56 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th
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To: MarMema
I doubt that there is any room for spiritual endeavor in Putin's mind. On the other hand, he can pretend to be one, as he did in front of Solzhenitsyn.
20 posted on 08/23/2008 4:06:00 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (kim jong-il, chia head, ppogri, In Grim Reaper we trust)
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To: MarMema
I believe Solzhenitsyn was right when he said Russia has to (spiritually) repent its communist past. That is the true change Russia needs.
21 posted on 08/23/2008 4:07:31 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster (kim jong-il, chia head, ppogri, In Grim Reaper we trust)
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AFP Kremlin loyal youth protest in Moscow against Georgia and the EU with a signed reading, "Sakkashvili is a criminal."

They signed that reading? Can we get the signatures?

22 posted on 08/23/2008 6:16:24 PM PDT by sionnsar (Obama? Bye-den! |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Who is that? Looks Russian — or from that part of the world.


23 posted on 08/23/2008 6:18:09 PM PDT by sionnsar (Obama? Bye-den! |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
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To: MarMema
“turned their backs on God”

Yeah, that sums up communism doesn't it?

Turned their backs on GOD and worshiped the creature instead of the creator..


But it really isn't communism is it?
It is something else. The worship of evil.

24 posted on 08/23/2008 6:20:05 PM PDT by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: MarMema
Yes I meant spiritually because I am an Orthodox Christian and I had thought the church would revive and restore Russia.
But it seems they have once again turned their backs on God and are more interested in greed and power.

Ever the nature of man, it seems. But I have never understood the Orthodox to be particularly into evangelism. There must have been a time once, no?

25 posted on 08/23/2008 6:26:30 PM PDT by sionnsar (Obama? Bye-den! |Iran Azadi| 5yst3m 0wn3d - it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY) | UN: Useless Nations)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
"I believe Solzhenitsyn was right when he said Russia has
to (spiritually) repent its communist past."

I think Russia thought Solzhenitsyn said "Repeat".
26 posted on 08/23/2008 6:35:00 PM PDT by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Same difference.....


27 posted on 08/23/2008 6:39:50 PM PDT by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: Repeal The 17th

True ,Russian women are hot, and eviiiilllllllll.


28 posted on 08/23/2008 9:11:18 PM PDT by redstateconfidential (A man who lets his friends down, is no man at all.)
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To: Tax Government

Never a more capricious and duplicitous people you will deal with.The Chinese may undercut you eventually, or go direct to your customers after a while. The Russians will roll your lifeless body out of a shiny black BMW on some back alley after years of being “your friend and partner”.


29 posted on 08/23/2008 9:15:52 PM PDT by redstateconfidential (A man who lets his friends down, is no man at all.)
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To: Repeal The 17th

Or her “brother” comes to visit.


30 posted on 08/23/2008 9:17:37 PM PDT by redstateconfidential (A man who lets his friends down, is no man at all.)
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To: DaveTesla
Yesterday's Nazi HJ is today Putin neo-Soviet Nashi 'commissars'.


31 posted on 08/24/2008 12:59:24 AM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is not 'free'.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster
Cute, but unfortunately with Putin's latest actions, she is now on the wrong side.

With her good looks and her skil with the pistol, she would probably would make a good spy to entrap / assassinate some unsuspecting Western male military / political target(s).

Too bad. Such as waste when leaders lead their people down the wrong path...

As an aside, from the looks of her shirt / blouse, it looks like they copied our woodland camouflage pattern...

32 posted on 08/24/2008 1:14:32 AM PDT by Screaming_Gerbil (How do you know that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a muzzle flash?)
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