Posted on 08/23/2008 10:59:34 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
Gerhard Schroeder under fire after blaming Georgia for 'detonating' war with Russia
Germany's former chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has been told he should "keep his mouth shut" after appearing to support Russia's invasion of Georgia.
By Tony Paterson in Berlin
Last Updated: 11:54PM BST 23 Aug 2008
The 64-year-old Social Democrat already has a reputation as a Kremlin apologist and was widely criticised for taking a £200,000 a year job with the Russian energy company Gazprom after he left office in 2005.
Not only is he friends with the Russian premier and former president Vladimir Putin - whom he has referred as a "flawless democrat" - but he gives frequent lectures defending Moscow's interests.
Last week, however, Mr Schroeder went a step further. In an interview with the news magazine Der Spiegel he insisted that Georgia had "detonated" the war in the Caucasus by invading South Ossetia.
He went on to brand the Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili "a gambler" and implied that Russia's invasion was justified because Georgia had American military advisers in the country.
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
/snip
Mr Schroeder also holds consultant posts with the Rothschild banking group, the Swiss publishing house Ringier, and has a speaking job with the New York-based Harry Walker agency. Mr Schreoder is reputed to charge $60,000 per speech.
The guy really gets around. On the payroll of Russians and international bankers.
Back in 70's, he served as a lawyer for murderous German left-wing terrorist group, Baader-Meinhoff terrorist gangs. He was their ardent supporter.
sorry, you missed your chance. Obama already picked Biden for VP.
L
Boy those European socialist sure can pick a good chancellor when they want to, can’t they?
There’s a Paulie Walnuts joke, which decency forbids on this family forum.
Schroeder of Germany, Martin of Canada, and Chirac of France were all against the Iraq War, campaigned against President Bush, and all have been replaced.
LOL, for that matter, you can say the same thing about Saddam Hussein!
Schroeder and Chirac have done incalculable damage to Western European politics and the safety of the freeworld.
Both of those corrupt clowns should be locked up.
The guy’s entire talent was making speeches. But after getting into office...he was a lousy individual and numerous members of his own party hated him.
The most remarkable moment occurred at the end of his chancellorship...when the election results were announced and the opposition barely edged him out...it was a half-point or so. To form a government, you must have several parties united under one banner. Schroeder figured that even though he lost....he could get the Greens and the FDP to slide under him, thus giving him the 50 percent he needed, and still beat the CDU.
So here at 10pm that night of the election....is this roundtable and the media control guru is asking various questions over scenarios and Schroeder quickly pointed out how he was going to reemerge as the winner under this potential Green/FDP banner. The FDP leader, Guidi Westervolle sat there....giving a ever-so-brief pause....and then said “the last thing on earth that the FDP would ever do...is partner with Schroeder”. The camera caught this bull with his horns down and ready to tear up Schroeder. Because of that moment...the FDP has picked up thousands of more supporters and found itself as the only party in Germany with guts.
Schroeder ist ein arshloc.
This is just like 1939 with the Russians and the Germans blaming the victim for forcing them to invade.
So the Georgians didn’t initiate a major military offensive against heavily populated Tskhinvali in the early morning of August 8th hours after Gerogia president Saakashvili gave both the Russians and the S. Ossetians assurances they wouldn’t?
Who bombed the Tskhinvali hospital and burned down the University then, pixies?
Another great German giving us advice.
The irony is, that while he was weakening Germany's position within the Middle East, NATO, and UN. While under his tenure Germany saw the worst economic times since WWII. While he threw his own people under the bus with pipeline deals to the Russians and while the Bundeswehr was regressing into something more like the Boy-scouts (social experiments, lack of funding, numerous reorganizations to the point where things were out of control, downsizing to the point where they can't uphold their NATO contract and their divisions only exist on paper......) While he sabotaged an effort in Iraq, throwing those people under the bus as well, was willing play with the security issues of allies, to destabilize the entire Middle East........ and did as little as possible in Afghanistan after he of course politically capitalized by standing on our side after 911 and talking of “Uneingeschraenkte Solidaritaet,” many in Germany to this day see him as some great fearless leader who stood against the US.
Schroeder was a master when it came to political opportunism, speeches, and sinking stooping to any level to win. In the end, he didn't serve his own country well either. He was the type of leader that signed Kyoto (A great photo opportunity), was against missile defense (at the time in 2000 that was really popularistic thinking. of course now even most Germans see it differently but they of course can't remember their own words 8 years ago)........ He pandered, and he seized political opportunities, as in 2002 during the run up for the Iraq war and German elections where he seized this war as his opportunity to turn the elections to his favor by jumping on the antiwar bandwagon.
You have to imagine this! A war that was a non-issue since the Germans neither paid for the 11 years of containment nor would be part of any invasion force and are at large a minor players in the Middle East (in the macro); he took Iraq and pushed it into the election forefront the media of course jumped all over it. He gave speeches, he gave interviews, and he talked and talked about this war. While Germany had 12.7% unemployment at one point under his reign, while crime surged, R&D budgets were falling, social services decaying, Germany's education system was loosing it's once great reputation...... he more or less managed to get reelected by beating the anti-American and antiwar drum and going against a war Germany had no stake in.
This was the basic message, and it was ingenious:
- Cater to the left, the SPD/Greens with the idea of being against war, against the US which is only going to war for oil of course. (The pacifist / anti-imperialism angle)
- Cater to the right FDP/CDU with the idea that Germany is standing up to the US and pathing its own way. That Germany is a powerful nation and self determining. (The sovereignty / national pride angle) Schroeder spoke of “Der Deutsche Weg”
Believe it or not, Schroeder actually did get traction even among those who call themselves conservatives in Germany. The German golden Chancellor knew how squeeze political capital out of the issue and since no issue was taboo, that's exactly what he did regardless of any consequences, regardless of the damage he did in the process to save his political power.
Think about this, he was a driving force behind why Turkey might be a future EU member. That was Germany's counteroffer and why Turkey didn't take our offer which they had already done but backed out of when he they support for EU membership on the table. With threats and intimidation, other EU nations were to be intimidated not to go along with the US. That went over well./sarc Germany a temporary UNSC member in 2002 want’s permanent membership, that didn't happen. US forces in Europe were realigned out of Germany mostly. Germany's influence in NATO wained. Germany's influence in the Middle East on which she is dependent for oil, is less. Did they really help the Iraqi's? Did they help their Allie the US? Did they help Middle East stability?................
In Germany some are just now, to at least a small degree, coming to grips with the reality of what he was really about.
And Schroeder was most forceful and ridiculous in his assertions about President Bush pre and post 9-11. But when America began pulling bases out of Germany, post 9-11, Schroeder whined like a stuck pig. Why? Oh My... those bases had provided economies for the locals. Now, his German economy was going into the tank. His response? To call President Bush bad names.
U.S. presidential debate viewed warily in Mideast, 10/02/04
http://www.bakersfield.com/24hour/world/story/1702500p-9498531c.html
Germans could not help noticing that Kerry's stand on the Iraq war and his opposition to unilateral attacks is closer to Berlin's stance, Gernot Erler, a senior lawmaker with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's Social Democrats, told n-tv television.
In France, results of a pre-debate poll said nearly 90 percent of French favor Kerry, and one analyst said the reasons why are obvious.
"We are in a logic of 'Anything but Bush,'" Andre Kaspi, an expert on the United States at Paris' Sorbonne University, told the daily newspaper La Croix.
Ah, the Soviets, er, Russians. Always the worlds wonder for liberty, freedom and prosperity.
Only if pixies is a code word for Russian invaders. I'd suggest you peddle your BS elsewhere, but, if want any takers, that would pretty much limit your sales area to Russia itself. The whole rest of the world just ain't buying it.
"We resemble that remark."
from Wikipedia....
Schröder has been married four times, to:
* Eva Schubach, married 1968, divorced 1972
* Anne Taschenmacher, married 1972, divorced 1984
* Hiltrud Hampel, aka Hillu, married 1984, divorced 1997
* Doris Köpf, married 1997
Schröder’s four marriages have earned him the nickname “Audi Man,” a reference to the 4-ring symbol of Audi motorcars. Another nickname is “The Lord of the Rings”.[7][8]
Schröder identifies himself as a Protestant, but does not appear to be religious. He did not add the optional phrase “So wahr mir Gott helfe” formula (so help me God) when sworn in as chancellor for his first term in 1998.[10]
Democrat Tom Lantos, chairman of the United States House Committee on Foreign Affairs and holocaust survivor, likened Schröder to a “political prostitute” for his recent behaviour. [15]
[edit] Freedom of the press
In April 2002 Schröder sued the DDP press agency for publishing an opinion of PR consultant Sabine Schwind saying that he “would be more credible if he didn’t dye his gray hair.” Soon the court decided to ban the media from suggesting that he colors his hair. [16]
During a heated dispute between Russia and Estonia in May 2007 over the removal of a Soviet-era war memorial from the centre of the Estonian capital, Tallinn, to a military cemetery Schröder defended the Kremlin’s reaction. He remarked that Estonia had contradicted “every form of civilised behaviour”.[17] Consequently, the Estonian government canceled a planned visit by Schröder in his function as chairman of Nord Stream AG.
They are, by national interests completely parallel to us. We share every major issue and have the same “real” desired end state.
However, in Germany you have a very left/liberal society and many who out of ideological reasons dislike the US. We are not a secular society and we are both the symbol of globalization and Western free world. Capitalism is a bad word to many, and while the wall fell in 1989, the overall paradigm (social/economic and even to some degree distrust/hate) remained. For the German socialist who preaches the superiority of this political/economic system, we are an eyesore.
They can deny it all they want, but envy is a basic human trait. The US is the largest economy, has most powerful military, it's the most politically influential nation on this planet. There is a reason WHY a cancer patient gets spat on when racing in the Tour de France (Lace). We have more patents, more copyrights, higher productivity rates, high incomes....... The new center of culture Isn't Athens, Vienna, or Paris, it's in places like New York, and while that appears absurd, look at what cloths they wear, the music they listen too, and even what language is dominating in science and business. This isn't arrogance, something they would try to paint it as, but it's a simple matter of fact, and envy is also a normal human trait. In the Olympics we will walk away with three times as many medals, despite a near DDR reminiscent effort by a near socialist state to improve its medal count. We have more Nobel prizes......... Whoever is in the leading position, others will envy him and he will be looked at with a microscope. Even if we share the same desired end sate, it feels good to them when we fail.
Yes, as unimaginable as it sounds, there still are some hard feelings about WWII. They started the war, started firebombing cities, and they executed this war in the most grotesque manner, but some are for some odd reason upset that they got bombed themselves, or that they got humiliated after the war and for some time even occupied. As crazy as it sounds, there are hard feelings towards the most benevolent nation in history over a war they started and lost. That's why you constantly read about the bombing of Dresden, or the Morgentau Plan that was never initiated........... bla bla bla
At the macro, we share all the same interests, are culturally somewhat related and are genealogically tied as well. But there are three causes out of which this anti-Americansim really stems in Germany: Socialist dogma, envy, and WWII. In current times, when you really understand and dig, you realize that just like in a marriage where a fight isn't always about what the screaming is over, behind the scene there are some forces driving the Germans to take on a very negative attitude towards the US. When self defining themselves however, they would NEVER state these reasons because they aren't noble.
While they are still stuck in such a mentality, their schools and academia have been decaying. Now they do not have whole lot of intellectual asset to brag about. Just their attitude. It is a kind of hollow shell, which they have difficulty in facing up to.
Georgian officials on 25 July blamed Russian intelligence operatives for a recent series of attacks in the South Caucasus country. Those attacks include a fatal car bombing in Gori, the main city of the Shida Kartli region, near the separatist region of South Ossetia. Russia denies any involvement in the attacks, and has labeled the charges a provocation. The accusations are not likely to ease Georgia's already troubled relations with Russia.
Prague, 26 July 2005 (RFE/RL) — Georgian Interior Minister Vano Merabishvili, speaking in Gori on 25 July, announced the arrest last week of two suspects in a 1 February blast that claimed the lives of three police officers.
“I would like to express my thanks to the counter-intelligence department, which has demonstrated an exceptional professionalism in the past six months, identifying and [eventually] arresting the people who carried out this terrorist attack,” Merabishvili said. “The two individuals who parked that notorious car here and then blew it up have been arrested and will be brought to justice under Georgian laws.”
Merabishvili said six additional suspects are being sought in connection with the case. A third man was arrested on 25 July.
Georgian officials had long suspected South Ossetian separatists were responsible for the blast.
But Georgian analysts have said they believe the blast could be linked to infighting among rival Gori-based criminal groups controlling smuggling operations to and from South Ossetia. Several regional police officials — including Shida Kartli police chief Aleko Sukhitashvili, the alleged target of the bombing — were dismissed on suspicion of corruption in March.
Merabishvili on 25 July said confessions obtained from the two detainees had helped investigators determine the Gori attack had been planned by a man he identified as Colonel Anatolii Sysoev of the Russian Army's Main Intelligence Directorate, or GRU.
The interior minister was joined by Givi Targamadze, who heads the Georgian Parliament's Defense and Security Committee.
Targamadze accused Russia of using South Ossetia as a base for carrying out a number of sabotage operations against Georgian interests — including attacks last year on the country's electricity grid that caused severe power outages.
“It is very unfortunate that our suspicions regarding Russia's possible direct involvement in our internal conflict [with South Ossetia] have proved founded,” Targamadze said. “[The Russians] are directly training groups of saboteurs. We said in the past that we had information in regard to this. These groups are quite large, numbering — according to our information — about 120 people. In addition, there are quite a lot of [Russian] agents on Georgian territory.”
The Interior Ministry later released a police video purporting to show one of the detainees admitting to playing a role in the Gori attack.
Investigators have identified the man as Gia Valishvili, an ethnic Georgian who said he recently changed his name to Valiev. In the video, Valiev described how he and his accomplices organized the attack, planting 70 kilograms of TNT in a car left outside the Gori police headquarters.
Valiev claimed the mastermind of the attack was a Russian, a man whom he identifies simply as Igor. In the video, Valiev said Igor suggested the explosives be connected to a detonator hidden in a cigarette pack in the car's glove box.
“The explosives had a special detonator that Igor had prepared,” Valiev said. “The mechanism was hidden in a pack of Yava cigarettes. Two wires were protruding from the pack and were connected to an explosive capsule. On the side of the pack was a switch. After the mechanism was activated, it would go off within 15 minutes if neither the car nor the pack were moved. If the car or the pack was moved, it would go off within two hours.”
Valiev never mentions Anatolii Sysoev by name. But Georgian investigators say the GRU operative is the same man Valiev identifies as Igor.
In a fresh police video released on 26 July, Valiev told investigators that Igor and other GRU operatives had established a headquarters with Russian peacekeepers in the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali.
“In the second half of 2004, around 15 August, the GRU took us to the Daryal Gorge in [neighboring] North Ossetia,” Valiev said. “We were trained at the 58th [Russian] army base. Our instructors were Russian. They taught us how to fire various weapons, assault rifles in particular, how to lay mines and use various pieces of heavy equipment. There were some 90 of us from [South] Ossetia at the base.”
Georgian officials have been careful not to implicate the Russian government in the attack. But the allegations have still sparked anger in Moscow.
Yevgenii Ivanov, a spokesman for the Russian Embassy in Tbilisi, rejected suggestions his country could be behind the Gori attack.
“We categorically deny any possible involvement of Russian officials, or [government] institutions, in any illegal action committed on Georgian territory,” Ivanov said.
In comments made to Russia's state-controlled Channel One television, Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Vyacheslav Sedov also rejected Merabishvili's accusations.
Sedov said Moscow is “accustomed to seeing the Georgians make mountains out of molehills.” In this case, he added, there wasn't even a molehill to begin with.
In a statement, the Russian Foreign Ministry said Tbilisi's claims “would neither help normalize the situation in South Ossetia, nor contribute to the further development of Russian-Georgian ties.”
Relations between Georgia and Russia have long been tense, despite the mild rapprochement that followed Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili’s election in 2004.
Tbilisi accuses Russia of supporting separatist regimes in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, while Moscow blames Georgia for allegedly allowing Chechen militants onto its territory.
Addressing an emergency security meeting in Tbilisi, Saakashvili on 25 July praised investigators for arresting suspects in connection with the Gori bombing. But he said claims that Russian individuals are involved in the attack should not harm ties with Moscow.
“I would like to stress that although there are clear indications that foreign citizens were involved in these operations — and we have ample documented evidence of that — I want everyone to know that we all have that information, but that we don't want to use it for confrontation,” Saakashvili said. “We don't want cooperation with Russia [in the anti-terrorism fight] to turn into confrontation. We want full cooperation with the Russian Federation, with its appropriate services and their heads, as well as with [its] government on issues related to the fight against terrorism.”
Meanwhile, Russian media on 26 July said Georgia's accusations are likely to prompt increased tensions between Moscow and Tbilisi.
In a commentary, Russia's state-controlled Radio Mayak said the claims are “absurd” and that there are no possible motives for Moscow to be involved.
Other Russian media note that Targamadze and other Georgian officials have also suggested Moscow might be behind a recent failed grenade attack on U.S. President George W. Bush during a visit to Tbilisi in May.
An ethnic Armenian resident of Tbilisi, identified as 27-year-old Vladimir Arutyunian, was arrested last week on suspicion of throwing a Russian-made device at Bush and Saakashvili while the two presidents were addressing a large crowd on Tbilisi’s Freedom Square. The grenade reportedly failed to go off due to a malfunction.
Although Arutyunian has suggested in a police video that he acted alone, Georgian investigators on 25 July said they were looking for possible accomplices.
There is the documented corroborating testimony from thousands of Ossetian refugees who fled Tskhinvali, including an American 12 year old.
I don't think even the Georgian Minister of Defense believes that Georgia didn't start the conflict, using the phony excuse that they were attempting to restore constitutional order.
Pick any neutral court on the planet and let's see who's telling the truth.
Yeah, the Russians just moved all that hardware over
the Caucasus Mountains in one day.
FYI The Russians were shelling Georgian villages and shooting
down Georgian aircraft just a week prior.
Quit reading Pravda.
The German is a “Gruppentier.”
They are not a very individualistic crowd. Their laws, educations system, society as a whole (It's taboos)..... they are by nature a very group oriented people. Communal sports programs, a much more homogeneous society than is far less mobile that us........ It's a more regimented, centralized, a more structured society and one of the problems with such a society is that it lends itself to group-think. Basically, whatever the accepted norm of behavior is, even the rationale and thinking, will be present in the overwhelming majority of people. There simply isn't that much deviation even in thought. Examples: Talk evolution to a German and 99.99% will regurgitate the exact same thing, often even using the same buzz words. Discuss Global Warming, same thing. Discuss Iraq, same thing again........... Other examples: Look at the regimented school system, the near uniform dress codes for various levels of workers/managers/technicians........ It's just a very uniform and regimented society, and it's that way in thought too.
When their government decided to go against the war, within a single week, all news went negative. Believe it or not, there was an actual speech and date where Schroeder went negative, and within days, all the state media followed. That's the consequence of a highly centralized state that largely influences the media. ARD, ZDF, HR3, SWF, NDR, BR3, DW....... these are in part state funded and their CEO a political appointed official who normally has political ties. When Schroeder went antiwar, the state apparatus quickly followed suit, and for months before the war, and several years there after, the average German was bombarded. Every German was sure of the fact that Kerry would win. Every German KNEW Iraq would fail, and now that things are starting to look better and a new government in Germany is in power, the media just sort of went silent or changed their focus point in reporting reference Iraq.
It's a complex interplay between a highly centralized society, one that is very regimented, a culture that likes conformity may that be sweeping your street once a week, or even your opinion on Bush. One can call them conformists and they are very subordinating to authority figures, at least those of their own state. It was not surprising what reference Iraq for example, but it is very disappointing nonetheless and as you stated, while they were failing to stand for freedom, failed to stand on our side after 911, failed to do the right things even for their own national security, they thought very highly of themselves; spinning their failure into having some moral high ground or even as showing strenghth.
The death of German society wasn't WWII, it wasn't WWI. The death of Germany came in the mid-late 1800s and in the form of an ideology which under many various names is essentially secular/anti-God/anti-family, economically dysfunctional, breeds irresponsibility and decadence..... The beginning of the end was home grown and had leaders like Marx, Freud, and Nietzsche. Like a virus this disease is one that decays a great society and makes it into mush. Take a look at any society where this ideology takes a foothold, even here. Germany is a lost cause. This disease has eaten itself so far into society that most Germans see socialism as an integral part of their culture. God is dead to them, and when you point it out, they get offended.
There ARE no South Ossetians.
Russian has stated that a complete genocide occured against them.
So, unless you are a spirit medium...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2062207/posts
Moscow is arming and supporting all of our worst enemies, Iran, Syria, Hamas, Hezballah, Cuba, Hugo's dictatorship, North Korea plus other rouge communist and jihadist régimes involved of cheering the murder of Americans, British and other allied forces in Iraq, Afghanistan and wherever the enemy is being countered.
Behind the obvious enemy is Russia's corrupt oil fueled neo-Soviet economy, now the biggest threat to the Western based economic system, as the northern hemisphere enters the cool of Autumn, then the cold and ice of winter.
Energy Czar Putin's blood stained claws are on the shut of switch to the natural gas feeder pipelines (foolishly agreed to on the part of Europe) keeping the EU warm during winter. This killer neo-Bolshevik swine has already had practice leaving millions ex-Soviet captive nations in the cold through his calculated energy blackmail, and his latest devious act, 'cyber terrorism' as in the case of Georgia, just prior to the Russian horde invading, and previously the Kremlin's cyber terrorism was pulled against Estonia -- which target will be next? London, Wall Street, Warsaw (again)?
The damn barbaric Russians should be pushed back into their 'motherland' and totally out of the Trans-Caucasus. Communist butcher Stalin ruthlessly murdered & deported millions of indigenous people from the Caucasus and in turn shipped ethnic Russians into the Trans-Caucasus. The damn barbaric Russians should be pushed back into their 'motherland' and totally out of the Trans-Caucasus - where they do not belong.
Transplanted Russians need to also relinquish other grabbed Finish territory back to it's rightful national ownership, coupled with the removal of Moscow's ICBMs,tanks & naval forces from the stolen, isolated, Russified Königsberg region---directly on NATO's front lines!
The bloody Russians begin this war, just as they did the last one in 1939, with Moscow's joint invasion of Poland with the Nazis. It's up to the West to finish it!
No, they drove all that hardware through the Roki tunnel that separates North & South Ossettiain in just one day. Too bad the Georgian military planners didn't take into account a rapid response from the North.
The Russians were shelling Georgian villages and shooting down Georgian aircraft just a week prior.
If that were true I'd think we have heard about it before August 8th, don't you?
Given the speed with which the Russian counter-offensive beat down the Georgian military, I kinda doubt the Russians were engaging with Georgia a week before August 8th.
Well at least we agree on one thing, this IS about oil.
In terms of America, Canada, the UK & other E.U. nations, plus Israel, it is strongly advised to immediately begin monitoring the actions of all Russian nationals, since so many of them adore their 'fearless leader' and are potential national security risks -- behind the lines.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=un+russian+shoot+down&btnG=Google+Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=GEORGIAN+VILLAGE+SHELLED+&btnG=Search
Just because you are not knowledgeable about Russia's evil
deeds over the last few years it is is a shame to see you
fall for the communist line.
Do your research man. If you expect the communist media to report the facts to you you are mistaken. Of course this happened prior to WWII with Hitler.
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. ... George Santayana
How many Obama voters are on the streets screaming “No blood for oil in Georgia!”? Where are the German protests? Last I checked, Georgia was/is a democracy, a free republic ruled by laws, and they posed no threat to Russia or anyone else for that matter. What's the purpose of Russia invading Georgia? Three fold: Energy, send a message, destabilize Georgia which they would rather see as a failed nation in civil war than allied with the West as a member of NATO. And best of all, A German former Chancellor (Who was against missile defense, the Iraq war......) is part of that picture.
1) the drone spy plane incident took place over Abhazia (not S. Ossetia) and the Abhazians themselves maintain they downed it, not the Russians. A review of the video evidence produced by the Georgians is inconclusive and would not (imo) stand up to scrutiny.The Russians of course deny involvement.
2)South Ossetia has claimed self-determination since 1988. They have fought a civil war with Georgia, and both sides are currntly livig under a Russian brokered cease-fire. Am I surprised that some mortars are occasionlly lobbed into Georgian territory? No, there have been sporadic flareups between the two sides since the ceasefire agreement was put in place.
Regardless of how you want to interpret these two events, they do not justify the massive Georgian miitary assault on the evening of Aug. 7th. which was a violation of international law, and a huge mistake from a geo-political stand point.
Cheers.
The leftist 'no blood for oil' crowd has an entire week in Denver to rant and scream while selectively ignoring OPEC's Iran has built their Shia-terrorist-instigating-dictatorship off of exported OPEC energy profits. Communist Hugo Chavez, another OPEC tyrant, as well as being supported by Moscow, along with Iran, has repeatedly demanded oil be used as a weapon against the West.
The homegrown leftist sellouts will be in the same boat with everyone else if the Russians and their cohorts are allowed to carry out their devious plans for global conquest. It may be 2008, but it feels more like the first half of 1939.
When oil prices were fluctuating between $15 & $20 a barrel Russia was a corrupt ridden (still is) economically backward rat hole. Since oil and natural gas prices have soared Putin's Kremlin thugs began demonstrating their true colours.
The ruthless Russian invasion of the independent nation of Georgia is the latest example of Putin's expansion goals to re-enslave all the counties which have broken away from Moscow's communist grip. KGB Putin wants to control the energy pipeline which goes from the Caspian Sea, through Azerbaijan, then southern Georgia, then southward through Turkey out to the Mediterranean Sea.
Which nation is next on Putin's invasion list?
Everything taking place in South Ossetia was being instigated by Moscow.
MOSCOW: A United Nations investigation has concluded that an unmanned Georgian reconnaissance aircraft destroyed last month was struck by an air-to-air missile fired from a Russian fighter jet.
The report, which also suggested that Russia's actions call into question its role as a credible peacekeeper in Georgia's territorial disputes, presented the Kremlin with a diplomatic embarrassment over its policy in Abkhazia, a separatist region in western Georgia that receives Russian support, and its statements about its military activities there.
Moreover, the report detailed a degree of military recklessness not previously reported, noting that the fighter plane's “interception took place very close to, or even inside, an international airway” at a time when “civilian aircraft were flying.”
The Russian military, which had claimed that all of its pilots were on vacation the day the drone was shot down - and then that an American F-18 shot down the drone - again denied a role in the incident.
But it offered no specific evidence or rebuttals against the finely nuanced accounts and analysis of the flight paths of the drone and the intercepting aircraft, which were prepared by a fact-finding team of military aviation experts and released Monday.
2.”Am I surprised that some mortars are occasionally lobbed into Georgian territory?”
Your kidding RIGHT?
That right there is an act of war.
Oh, I get it. You would like the Georgian people to
quietly return back under the oppression of the murderous Soviets, right?
You forgot the continuous bombings, The attempted murder of
the Georgian President along with President Bush, the constant
downing of power lines causing massive power outages through
Georgia, the bombing of police stations,Etc,etc.
Shall I make you a three year weekly list?
Just how would you take it if the Mexican Government handed out
passports to all the leftists and illegals in California
and then declared California Independent?
Would you be ready to fight?
Does The Civil War ring a bell?
How would you like to live through 9/11 on a weekly
basis, being the victim of constant terrorist attacks, power outages, and mortars being launched into the middle of your town?
Oh,
and Georgia just happened to launch a huge offensive
with no air cover and 20% of their ground forces over
in Iraq fighting with us,the Americans.
By the way, if you think you know how to mobilize, deploy
and move 18 columns of tanks across 5,000 KM of mountain
range in 1 day (never mind all the other armor) I would like to invite you down to Fort Knox so you could train the
U.S. Army how to accomplish such a feat.
The Georgian government has denied that it flies these drones over Abkazi airspace or that their drones have been downed before. This has been proven false by the same reprt you cited.
The pattern here, again confirmed by the UN Observer Mission report, is of Georgia provoking a confrontation with its neighbors in violation of international law.
What international law?
Have you checked the internationally recognized boarder of
Georgia Lately?
Here Let me Help You.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gg.html
Abkhazian is in the Internationally recognized boarders of
Georgia.
You completely left out the fact the the aircraft was shot down by Russian MIG aircraft over Georgian soil.
Another act of war.
With all the terrorism committed against Georgia you fault them for flying reconnaissance aircraft to keep an eye on things?
You ignore the facts and argue Soviet propaganda.
You work for them?
OK I am in the camp for Freedom for Georgia, Ukraine,
Romania, Bulgaria and Poland.
And you are in the Putin reclaim the empire camp.
So lets drop it.
Haven't they suffered enough under the murderous fist
of the soviets?
That's right. Estonia is just a horrible country. Look at all the terrible things they have done to others, unlike Russia and Germany.
Really? Do you read the Georgian news? I do, and I knew about it.
That is NOT what the report said.
Read it again.
The report also criticized the Georgian government, saying the use of drones over Abkhazia violated the separation of forces agreement and that “this kind of military intelligence-gathering is bound to be interpreted by the Abkhaz side as a precursor to a military operation, particularly in a period of tense relations between the two sides.” It noted that the United Nations had notified Georgia on April 7 that the drones violated the cease-fire agreement.
{note: The report does not state "Georgia provoking a confrontation with its neighbors in violation of international law" as you state.}
Officials in Abkhazia had claimed that the Abkhaz military had downed the drone with one of the de facto government's L-39 jets, a dated airframe with a single tail fin that is typically used for training and bears little resemblance to the jet seen on the video.
The report made clear that the United Nations did not accept the Abkhaz explanation and that Abkhazia refused to cooperate with investigators.
Where you posting from?
Russia?
"Georgia today said three Russian jets had entered its airspace and dropped bombs at two locations just south of a rebel enclave in the breakaway region of South Ossetia."
"Earlier in the week Tbilisi announced that direct talks were scheduled, but South Ossetian officials later said they would not participate..."
You would’ve heard more about it if Russia hadn’t launched a blitzkrieg on Georgia’s cyber resources starting in July. They wanted to cut them off from the rest of the world.
The Roki tunnel is only the half of it. A couple of months before this they fixed a rail line in Abkhazia so they could bring in more troops and armor. Probably why this Georgian surveillane drone was blown out of the sky by a Russian Mig: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=BypnhFI7HGY
The United States needs to tread lightly in the North Caucuses. Did you know Uncle Joe was born in Gori?
If Georgia wishes to remain oriented toward the West (imo) its going to have to develop a pragmatic approach to its situation. This means reaching a negoiated settlement with Russia, Ossetia, and Abkhazia. Georgia (and Ukrane) may also have to settle for permenant junior status in NATO.
Both countries could add real value if they adopted a hybrid approach to their foreign policy, one that shows theri preference for the West but also recognizes geopolitical reality.
Yes, the Georgian drones violated the 1994 cease-fire agreement. For once we agree on the root cause of the problem.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.