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Pelosi,“an ardent, practicing Catholic?”
1 posted on 08/25/2008 7:50:09 AM PDT by kellynla
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To: kellynla
I don't think God is going to let us get around the fact that life begins at the moment of conception.

sw

76 posted on 08/25/2008 9:03:35 AM PDT by spectre (Spectre's wife (Is He the one?)
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To: kellynla
Rush opened his show today blasting Queen Pelosi on this...stay tuned.
80 posted on 08/25/2008 9:20:30 AM PDT by Miss Didi ("Good heavens, woman, this is a war not a garden party!" Dr. Meade, Gone with the Wind)
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To: kellynla

Actually, the Catholic Church didn’t consider abortion to be murder for almost 1900 years. The official Church doctrine until 1869 was that a human soul wasn’t imparted into the fetus until “quickening” which is sometime around 16-17 weeks, which is well into the second trimester. This “delayed ensoulment” or “delayed hominization” was part of the Canon from the beginning. St. Augustine even said that it was not a sin to abort a female fetus for a period much longer than a male fetus.

There was always spirited debate over when ensoulment took place among Catholic scholars, but the delayed ensoulment school was the dominant one.

In 1312, at the Council of Vienne, St. Thomas Aquinas, who opposed abortion and contraception as a sin against marriage, also firmly maintained that it was NOT murder unless the fetus was ensouled with a human soul. Aquinas followed the most consistent theory of ensoulment in the history of Christianity; that first the fetus is endowed with a vegitative soul, then an animal soul, and then, when its body is developed and it is quickened, it is endowed with a human soul.

In 1588, Pope Sixtus V, concerned about rampant prostitution, issued a Papal Bull called Effraenatam, outlawing all contraception and abortion at any stage of pregnancy. His decree lasted for 3 years. in 1591, he died, and his successor, Pope Gregory XIV, rescinded Effraenatum and replaced it with Sedes Apostolica, which restored the “ensoulment” period to the fetus’s animation (quickening).

In 1869, Popr Pius IX was campaigning within the Church to have the doctrine of “Papal Infallability” accepted into the Canon. He sought the support of France’s Napolean III. Napolean, worried over a century-long decline in French population, offered a deal. If the Pope would outlaw ALL abortions, Napoleon would support Papal Infallability. The deal was struck and Pius issued Apostolicae Sedis, calling for excommunication (the penalty for murder) for abortion at any stage of pregnancy.

Pius IX’s ruling was finally added to the Code of Canon Law in 1917, only 91 years ago.

So, ironically, Pelosi’s position is in agreement with Catholic and general Christian dogma for 95% of the existince of Christianity, while the idea of ensoulment at conception is a very recent change in the official dogma.

It is also ironic that so many people who feel so passionately that all abortion is, ipso facto, murder of an ensouled human, have no idea how recently this concept was adopted in Christianity. For most of its history, Pelosi’s view was much closer to the truth. The ignorance of most modern Christians to the history of their own theology continues to amaze and astound me.


82 posted on 08/25/2008 9:50:28 AM PDT by BlueSun ("When good does evil in its struggle against evil, it becomes indistinguishable from its enemy.”)
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To: kellynla

Wow. Just wow. Well, more than wow... but just wow for now.


84 posted on 08/25/2008 10:04:19 AM PDT by new cruelty (don't believe the hype)
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To: kellynla

“Don’t believe the Bible! Anything but the Bible! It can’t be true when it says life begins at conception! It just can’t! I don’t know why, it just can’t! Think of another explanation. Here’s a billion dollars, go develop an answer that gullible people addicted to media will believe! Hurry! My floor time is over in five minutes!”


85 posted on 08/25/2008 10:04:38 AM PDT by Righter-than-Rush
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To: kellynla
Skip to comments.(archives) DFU SONG: All Out of Love (abortion song)
DFU SONG PARODIES | 1-22-03 | Lyrics, Doug from Upland

Posted on 01/22/2003 5:21:34 PM PST by doug from upland

MIDI - ALL OUT OF LOVE

It’s twenty one weeks and the baby is ill
But what is the doctor to do?
He’s there in the womb and there isn’t much hope
A miracle soon comes true
Mom says “Operate…because Samuel needs help”
The whole thing is very well planned
The doctor’s surprised when his finger is grabbed
“My God, it is Samuel’s hand…tiny hand

They’re not tissue mass…they are not a choice, now
Come join if you will…by raising your voice now
They’re not tissue mass…my God, they are babies
Abortion is wrong…it’s got to be stopped somehow

For too many years many babies like him
Were ripped from their safe mother’s womb
Purveyors of death taking innocent life
Hell waits for those in that room

They’re selfish and cruel…they are evil indeed
How many more babies must die?
We can’t turn our heads…we all have to stand up
We hear the angels cry…angels cry

They’re not tissue mass…they are not a choice, now
Come join if you will…by raising your voice now
They’re not tissue mass…my God, they are babies
Abortion is wrong…it’s got to be stopped somehow

Oh, how many more must die…can't you hear angels cry?
How many more must die…can't you hear angels cry?

They’re not tissue mass…they are not a choice, now
Come join if you will…by raising your voice now
They’re not tissue mass…my God, they are babies
Abortion is wrong…it’s got to be stopping

They’re not tissue mass…they are not a choice, now
Come join if you will…by raising your voice now
They’re not tissue mass…my God, they are babies
Abortion is wrong…it’s got to be stopping

They’re not tissue mass…they are not a choice, now
Come join if you will…by raising your voice now
They’re not tissue mass…my God, they are babies
Abortion is wrong…it’s got to be stopping

86 posted on 08/25/2008 10:14:30 AM PDT by doug from upland (8 million views of HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: kellynla

ANTI-ABORTION SONG ON YOUTUBE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuLT0vFceD8


88 posted on 08/25/2008 10:23:04 AM PDT by doug from upland (8 million views of HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: kellynla

90 posted on 08/25/2008 11:01:09 AM PDT by doug from upland (8 million views of HILLARY! UNCENSORED - put some ice on it, witch)
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To: kellynla
Pelosi,an ardent, practicing Catholic.

She better keep practicing. She doesn't have it right yet.

103 posted on 08/25/2008 11:36:15 AM PDT by mware (F-R-E-E. That spells free. freerepublic.com baby)
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To: kellynla
Actually, as it happens, I DO know when life begins.

I was having lunch with a couple of friends last weekend and the subject came up. One friend insisted that life begins when the egg is fertilized and a soul imparted.

The other friend insisted that life begins when the baby is born and becomes a separate biological organism.

"You're both wrong," I interjected. "Life begins when the last kid graduates college and the dog dies."

111 posted on 08/25/2008 2:27:33 PM PDT by BlueSun ("He who recognizes no humanity in others, loses it in himself.")
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