Skip to comments.Paper, plastic or bring your own (California Shopping Bag BAN)
Posted on 08/26/2008 6:19:16 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
California, with its long coastline littered with white bags, needs a better approach, one that encourages people to make informed choices between disposable and reusable bags. Here are the options:
A piecemeal, voluntary approach by stores.
A hard-line approach, such as a ban.
A simple, market-based solution: a consumption tax. Ireland has taken this route. Since 2002, consumers who forget to bring a bag are charged a 15-cent tax at checkout. Before the tax, Ireland's 3.9 million people used 1.2 billion bags per year. Now it's 230 million. About $9.6 million was raised from the tax in the first year, earmarked for a fund for environmental projects such as recycling refrigerators.
A bill before the California Legislature would adopt Ireland's market-based approach. Beginning in January 2010, Assembly Bill 2769 (by Assemblyman Lloyd Levine, D-Van Nuys) would require California stores to collect a 25-cent tax on all disposable bags, paper or plastic. Stores would get 5 cents for every plastic bag and 10 cents for every paper bag. The balance would go to a Bag Pollution Fund to clean up the litter caused by single-use carryout bags and encourage the reduced use of single-use disposable bags.
The bill has the support of the grocery and retail industries, which currently subsidize the use of disposable bags.
AB 2769 would provide shoppers with a choice: Bring reusable bags or pay the true cost of a disposable bag. That should shift market behavior and help the environment, too. The Senate should pass AB 2769, and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger should sign it.
(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...
Have you noticed how leftists now couch all their totalitarian initiatives as "simple, market based" and as "consumer choice" as a way to fool us sheep?
If charging lazy people for not bringing their own shopping bags helps stem the tide of refuse we generate everyday, that ain't necessarily a bad thing.
Though, it should be something the stores do without the Gubmint getting in on the act.
We are required to put our garbage in plastic bags. I use my grocery bags. So now I have to go out and buy garbage bags?? This is a marketing scheme....and it’s stupid.
If charging lazy people for not bringing their own shopping bags helps stem the tide of refuse we generate everyday, that ain’t necessarily a bad thing.
Lazy? I actually like getting the plastic bags from the store so that I use them as garbage bags.
Please step over to the window and pay the "speech with attitude" assessment.
I do the same thing — use plastic bags as garbage bags. And I’m already green — I have green eyes. :-)
Those d@mn flimsy plastic grocery bags are all over the place around me - stuck to signs on the side of the roads, in the weeds, up in the trees, all in the woods around the river and everywhere else. They’re a mess and an eyesore. It costs me tax money for Public Works to clean them up. As far as I’m concerned this falls under the heading of “even a stopped clock is right twice a day.”
Plastic bags I receive at the grocery store are recycled by taking the bags to the local food bank. The food bank is always looking for more plastic bags.
But I reuse the bags as trash bags.
The stores I go to, give us the bags. Keeping them in the car and bringing them to the store is stupid....how?
“California, with its long coastline littered with white bags,”
I question that statement. I live near the coast in CA and don’t see grocery bags littering it. We use each bag at least two or three times, for lunch (carrying, NOT eating) and to line small trash containers.
We usually took the bags when we were doing bulk shopping, but declined them when we were making the mid-week purchases of fresh produce and milk. This gave us the bags we needed to collect trash, but still helped us cut down on the use with the small incentive offered by Daiei.
Not talking about HDPE plastic bags. The bags I speak of are a woven synthetic material that have handles. They fold up flat to the size of a paperback, unfold to about 1'x1'x2' and hold a lot of weight.
The one I use at my local wine merchant is compartmented and they gave it to me gratis as long as I bring it back to use for carrying my purchases.
I know the HDPE plastic bags we're used to are handy for trash, etc....but what did we do before we had them...say 1970?
How the heck is a tax a “market-based approach”?
It is a “government-revenue-based approach”.
Awesome. That’s what I call thinking.
Why do you assume that people who justifiably hate the bag tax are lazy? What if somebody just doesn't believe the enviromentalist nonsense about plastic bags destroying the planet? Landfills run deep.
It must be something in the water where you live. One thing I do not see up in the People’s Republic of Washington are plastic bags littered around everywhere; and our stupid bag tax hasn’t even been implemented yet. Of course, that didn’t stop “bag pollution” from being used as an argument toward our 20-cent per bag tax that recently got passed. The way these folks talk, it’s a wonder they can get to their car in the morning through the sea of discarded plastic bags that they’re forced to machete their way through.
can I bring my bags back to the store and get my deposit back?
Maybe so, but the bottom line is that the implementation of the use of those plastic bags around me actually does cost me tax money because of the extra work that is expended in cleaning them up. So on that basis it’s legitimate for the government to collect money for their use.
Now, it makes more sense to me to tax the grocery stores handing them out. Leave it up to the grocery stores to determine if they’ll eat the tax or pass it along to their customers.
Isn't the bag cost included in the price of the goods the store sells, just like salaries, utility costs, taxes and every other expense the business incurs?
And tax what is legal.
Not too long ago, I heard a comedian say, "If the democrats could catch you in the act, they'd tax masturbation."
First thing hubby said-screamed to me in fact-yesterday on hearing this...
We’ve gotta get out of this state!
I thought he was hollering about yet another stupid gun control law like microstamping or the smart gun.
All the things that need fixing and they’re suggesting something as idiotic as this?
No wonder our state is broke.
You know, I was down there last month and didn't see that litter.
Kraft paper. Useful for many things.
People in california are a little slow they haven’t heard of biodegradable plastic yet(UPS uses it in shipping)
There is no plastic bag problem in my neck of the woods (Simi Valley), nor in my parents’ (Malibu). I pay a private company for my waste removal.
Why stop with plastic bags? I’ve seen candy bar wrappers, Doritos bags, etc... on the Freeways more than I’ve seen plastic bags.
I’m sure you’ll support a tax on those as well.
It frosts me to think that we get charged the stupid CRV on bottles and cans. They all end up in my Recycling Bin. Just a way for the government to make more money off of us. Has nothing to do with being green. And they have the gall to put the CRV value BEFORE tax. So they collect taxes on the damn CRV as well.
This is all a scam folks.
Of course not. There's a special "Employees 'Voluntary' Bag Fund" that all workers 'contribute' to. It's used to purchase the stock of bags used at the checkout counters. All Senior Management is exempt so the burden only falls on the lowly peons. I guess you never worked in the grocery industry, so it's easy to understand why you never heard of this fund.
I go to a Sam’s store and get my purchases in a cart without any bags or boxes. Next door at Walmart I get everything put in small plastic bags, too many to count. At a regular grocery store I have a choice of paper or plastic. On my last trip the “sacker” didn’t know the difference between paper and plastic, the checker had to explain it to him. She also had to show him how to double sack.
I’m sure that the stores would approve of anything that brought them more money. A fee for sacks? I can just imagine each can or box in a sack of its own.
A few stores have a place to dispose of used plastic bags. That helps responsible people dispose of the bags.
I just told you. Our dumpster is full of garbage in the used plastic grocery bags.
You are assuming that the tax money collected would actually be used to clean them up.... the government doesn't have a very good record in this regard.
If they were really serious about cleaning them up, they might offer a bounty on them, the way they did for bear or wolf skins.
That did work pretty well, as I recall, and it made compliance voluntary, which I think is a key part of the liberty we are supposed to have in this country.
I have a neighbor, a really nice guy, who doesn't officially run his business from his house but his employees gather there often during the day. The neighbor is from a Central American Country and all of his employees are from south of the border. When they have a sandwich, candy bar, bag of chips, etc. they drop the wrapper or container where they stand. Cans, bottles, cups the same when they finish. It must be a cultural thing since another neighbor from south of the border does the same thing.
I know others can be just as bad but my yard didn't look like a dump site before these people moved here. Cleaning up trash is part enforcement and part education. Don't know how we get the education part in play.
By your reasoning, a city with a broken sewer system would be within its rights and fulfilling its responsibility to the public by restricting the amount of food you consume and the days you can do it.
Somehow everybody seems to think that it is litterers who carelessly toss these plastic bags out windows, on their lawns and yours, carry them to beaches and float them off like message bottles and such; the reality is that sloppy trash disposal allows the majority of these flimsy sail planes to escape from the confines of the trash trucks as they collect at houses and businesses and then dump their loads in improperly maintained landfills.
In reality the blame largely lies with the people who run the trash system but they would rather find a new source of revenue to cover their own added costs than to better run the collection and disposal of these plastic bags.
I hear you. The contractors I’ve used on our home (kitchen remodel, bathroom, and floors) has been quite mindful of cleaning up after themselves.
On the other hand, our neighbor has had people redo their driveway. They’ve drank beer and dropped cans in OUR yard.
No government tax fazes folks like these. It just affects the VAST MAJORITY of those of us who are law abiding as usual!
I say that most people are quite respectful, do not litter and put their trash where it belongs. There’s a very small percentage of the population that are jerks as usual.
It’s the same argument that the gun grabbers use ultimately. Some people will commit crimes with a gun. So because of those criminals, the rest of us law abiding types will suffer.
While the criminals continue to commit crimes undeterred by it all.
A. What, exactly, IS the "true cost" of a disposable bag?
B. Who determines said cost? The Sierra Club? As if we'd BELIEVE them??
C. Since the "disposable" bags are recyclable, is their use really a "cost" or is it ultimately a benefit?
Why not rather put a nickle return value on each one, like with glass bottles and aluminum cans?? The folks would bring thhe bags back and dispose of them at the stores, and the bums would self-enlist as the California Bag Recovery Team to pick up any strays.
It's worked so well with aluminum cans that suburban areas have occasional problems with the homeless coming through in the early morning hours on trash day raiding people's recycle bins for them.
So why not plastic bags, too?? It'd be far and away preferable to yet another damnable tax with a high-minded name, and an infernal final disposition.
I hate 'em anyway. They leak, the handles tear, they hurt your hands when carrying something heavy, they collapse in the car and spill the contents, causing stuff to roll around on the floor of the car. They're useless to reuse, except as filler when shipping something. I think they should be banned altogether.
From your response I assume you (a) don't have a dog, or (b) don't walk the poor introverted critter.
More to the point, but off topic; remember when "they" were pushing plastic because it didn't kill trees?
Even more to the point; how come they make expensive (blue) tarpaulins that dissolve in 18 months but can't make a cheap grocery bag or six pack carrier that goes away in less than a millennium?
No dog, but I do have a cat, and the grocery bags are useless for disposing of cat patties from the litter box. The litter (and worse) leaks through the holes in those lousy bags. They're worse than nothing, because you think you have the stuff contained, but then you have to clean up the floor where the stuff leaked through on the way to the garbage can.
Even if I drove (using gas — and more $$$ out of my pocket) to my nearest recycling center I would never get back the tax that was charged on top of the CRV.
As for product wrappers, there doesn’t have to be an alternative. As something like the California Redemption Value argument illustrates. All they need to do is have some petty tax on top for every product sold in a wrapper. We didn’t eliminate cans did we?
Regardless of the minutiae of these tertiary arguments that we can go back and forth on — the basic premise that the government can change behavior by taxing you 15cents for a grocery bag is bunk. And I think you know it.
All this is, is a way to collect revenue for the State. Even from those who are responsible with their garbage.
I would never have expected to argue these points on a conservative website. Plenty of people have come up with great alternatives (the bounty idea sounds wonderful) that fit the conservative mold better than just adding a “tax” to generate revenue that ends up in the general fund to go to some other socialist program.
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