Skip to comments.Denver Archbishop scolds pro-choice Biden
Posted on 08/26/2008 7:27:02 AM PDT by WilliamReading
Catholic Archbishop Chaput, who was scheduled to lead a pro-life candlelight vigil Monday night here in front of Planned Parenthood, called Mr. Biden's support for abortion rights "seriously wrong," said archdiocese spokeswoman Jeanette De Melo.
"I certainly presume his good will and integrity," said the archbishop, "and I presume that his integrity will lead him to refrain from presenting himself for Communion if he supports a false 'right' to abortion."
The archbishop, who was not invited to speak at any convention events in what appeared to be a deliberate snub, told the Associated Press that he would like to speak privately with Mr. Biden.
The debate underscored what has emerged as a central theme of this year's convention: the tension between the Democratic Party's renewed outreach to religious voters and its long-standing support for unfettered access to abortion.
"The push for the Democratic Party is to have a new position on abortion," said Steve Waldman, editor of the religious Web site beliefnet.com. "When you look at Catholics and evangelicals, you see that they agree with 80 percent of what [Mr. Obama] says, but there's this stumbling block with abortion."
Whether pro-choice Catholics should take Communion became a major issue in 2004 during Democrat John Kerry's run for the presidency when more than a dozen bishops, including Archbishop Chaput, publicly asked the senator from Massachusetts not to present himself for the Eucharist.
Their stance may have given a boost to President Bush, who increased his share of the Catholic vote from 47 percent in 2000 to 52 percent in 2004.
"Now everywhere Biden campaigns, we'll have this question of whether a pro-abortion Catholic can receive Communion. ... Selecting a pro-abortion Catholic is a slap in the face to Catholic voters," said Fidelis President Brian Burch
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
I am not Catholic, so I don’t understand this. Each Archbishop has the choice whether to offer communion to a pro-choice Catholic?
In Denver , an “abortion rights” Catholic cannot take communion, but in San Francisco and Chicago you can?
They should not take it nor be given it. Period.
Yes... and no. Canon Law is pretty clear regarding this situation. However, a Bishop is the authority in his diocese and can choose to erroneously ignore the strictures.
1] Why should the Church deny the Eucharist to hundreds of Catholic pro abortion politicians?
Answer: The Catholic Church condemns abortion, euthanasia, sodomy, cloning, embryonic stem cell research, as well as other attacks against the sanctity of life and the family. It is the obligation of the bishop to follow canon law. Canon Law n.915 mandates the denial of Communion to all manifest, obstinate, persistent sinners, including but not exclusive to politicians.
Canon 915 not only protects the Eucharist from sacrilegious reception, but also prevents the faithful from sorrowful scandal.
Its important to understand what manifest, obstinate, persistent means. Many wrongly think it applies only to politicians. This is not so.
If a Catholic is a manifest sinner, that means he is known, or public. This must be differentiated from the Catholics who are in the state of private grave sin, to whom their sin is known only to themselves and God. The private grave sinner cannot be denied the Eucharist because their sin is unknown to the bishop, to his priests, and his ministers of the Eucharist.
If a Catholic is gravely manifest and obstinate in his sin, that means he pigheadedly continues to persist or stand firm in grave sin that is public in nature and causes scandal to others. This is quite different from those who persist in private sin.
Catholic pro-abortion politicians are certainly manifest, obstinate and persistent sinners and they are thus subject to the provisions of c.915.
The rules are pretty clear. Some bishops are men, and men of God, and enforce the rules. Others ...
"The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops."
I am not Catholic, so I dont understand this. Each Archbishop has the choice whether to offer communion to a pro-choice Catholic?
In Denver , an abortion rights Catholic cannot take communion, but in San Francisco and Chicago you can?
The rule of thumb on this matter is, you can't be Catholic if you are pro-abortion. People who are not Catholics should not be taking Communion. Biden has excommunicated himself from the RC Church for politically supporting abortion. Here's a couple of passages from the Catholic Catechism on the matter:
2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae," "by the very commission of the offense," and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.
2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.
If Biden sincerely stops supporting abortion and repents for this mortal sin, he can start attending Mass and receiving Communion.
Sadly, we’re all over the map. “Father” Pfleger would probably perform an abortion and then say Mass.
“Bishops are answerable to the Pope, not to one another.”
So this leads me to believe that the Pope and the Vatican is taking a “hands off” position on whether refusing communion to pro-choice politicians should be enforced or not.
(called Mr. Biden’s support for abortion rights “seriously wrong,” said archdiocese spokeswoman Jeanette De Melo. “I certainly presume his good will and integrity,” said the archbishop, )
Ah, well I see here, where the Archbisop has gone wrong. He presumes goodwill and integrity in a POLITICIAN.
I believe Mr. Waldman is wrong. I don't agree with anything Obama says, and almost everyone in my extended family is Christian, Catholic, Baptist, etc, and none of the ones with whom I've spoken agree with Obama about the issues, either. Abortion is just one of the those issues, albeit, the most important one.
That being said, I'm glad the Bishops are speaking out on this, since the Democrats are doing their Election year 'religion dance', trying to bambooze the average Catholic into thinking that abortion is just one of many issues on which to decide one's vote, and their decision shouldn't be made on the basis of that one issue.
“So this leads me to believe that the Pope and the Vatican is taking a hands off position on whether refusing communion to pro-choice politicians should be enforced or not.”
The pope is not a micromanager.
He encourages bishops to do their job in their own territory.
Over recent years Rome has attempted to clarify this rule and make it more forceful - less likely to be misinterpetated.
Stubborn bishops who refuse to take the hint get “dealt” with differently according to their situation.
Many of these guys are approaching their 75th birthday where they are required to submit their resignation for the pope’s approval.
Some bishops have been moved around, or have been assigned a co-bishop (not the formal name - but same idea)
It is the last resort to publicly shame a bishop, and the church always reacts slowly.
make that misinterpreted.
“The pope is not a micromanager.”
The CEO of McDonald’s is also not a micromanager, but you will notice how all the McDonals serve the same food, at the same quality, and in a clean environment.
“The CEO of McDonalds is also not a micromanager, but you will notice how all the McDonals serve the same food, at the same quality, and in a clean environment.”
really don’t see how this applies to dealing with millions of catholics.
Any catholic can walk into any mass around the world and will hear the same scriptures being read that day, the same psalm - a homily based on the gospel reading, and the same eucharistic sacrifice being offered.
Catholics are expected to respect the eucharist enough to not present themselves for communion when they know they should not.
What we have are a class of people who obviously do not believe in catholic teaching of the eucharist, or they would not be so careless.
So the church is faced with balancing the issue of reaching out to these people to convince them of their responsibility.
It is going to be very difficult for the church to track these people’s whereabouts week to week.
The bishops can order their priests to deny them communion - but that is assuming all the priests (many of them elderly) are going to be on top of their game and recognize these people prior to offering them the host.
The primary burden rests with the offenders themselves.
The message has now gone out - they have been publicly rebuked.
Let’s see if they listen.
They can still attend mass, but they should not get up for communion.
What if a politician supports capital punishment? My understanding is that the Church is against capital punishment.
Is that enforced in any way?
that is not “as” absolute as the teaching on abortion.
For years it was considered acceptable as a safeguard against furthr killing of the innocent.
What the church basically has said is that now most of our countries have advanced enough to be able to contain these criminals without having to kill them.
However, the Church has also recognized exceptions can be made regarding those extreme persons who still represent a physical threat even in prison - to guards and to fellow inmates.
So there is room for debate regarding this teaching and it is not given the same weight as the teaching regarding the killing of innocent unborn children.
Thank you for the explanation.
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