Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Truth About Russia in Georgia
Middle East Journal ^ | 26 August 2008 | Michael Totten

Posted on 08/26/2008 11:00:02 AM PDT by RKV

Virtually everyone believes Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili foolishly provoked a Russian invasion on August 7, 2008, when he sent troops into the breakaway district of South Ossetia. “The warfare began Aug. 7 when Georgia launched a barrage targeting South Ossetia,” the Associated Press reported over the weekend in typical fashion.

Virtually everyone is wrong. Georgia didn't start it on August 7, nor on any other date. The South Ossetian militia started it on August 6 when its fighters fired on Georgian peacekeepers and Georgian villages with weapons banned by the agreement hammered out between the two sides in 1994. At the same time, the Russian military sent its invasion force bearing down on Georgia from the north side of the Caucasus Mountains on the Russian side of the border through the Roki tunnel and into Georgia. This happened before Saakashvili sent additional troops to South Ossetia and allegedly started the war.

(Excerpt) Read more at michaeltotten.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Russia
KEYWORDS: aggression; georgia; invasion; kremlin; nato; neosoviet; putin; russia; russians; southossetia
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051 next last

1 posted on 08/26/2008 11:00:02 AM PDT by RKV
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: RKV

Another quote...

Plus it’s the oldest law of warfare: have your guns in populated areas, and when the enemy responds, show the world your dead women and children.

“Right,” I said. “That goes on a lot where I usually work, in the Middle East.”

“Yes,” he said. “That’s exactly what the Russians were doing.”


2 posted on 08/26/2008 11:02:48 AM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RKV

PING! Thanks for posting this.


3 posted on 08/26/2008 11:06:31 AM PDT by rlmorel (If they can call George "Dubya", we can call Barack "Hussein")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rlmorel

You are welcome. Michael Totten really knows his stuff.


4 posted on 08/26/2008 11:10:42 AM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: RKV
"the Associated Press reported over the weekend in typical fashion."

AP is really getting good at this. They can now start with lies right from the very first article. Even though the truth of how this all started is now known, MSM will never acknowledge it.

5 posted on 08/26/2008 11:13:37 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RKV

Five posts and no Russian apologists.

Where are all the people who think Georgia invaded foreign territory and it’s all America’s fault for bombing Serbia?


6 posted on 08/26/2008 11:17:13 AM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF ("Gun Control" is not about the guns. "Illegal Immigration" is not about the immigration)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: RKV

No, no, no, Russians are the good guys, they don’t loot, shoot civilians, steal toilets to wash potatoes, drink,beat their women so they all want to be mail order brides, have a crashing population with the life expectancy dropping 58 for men,stage cyber opts on their neighbors, bomb pipelines, have organized political parties that advocate open warfare with the west and Jews,fund and arm terrorists throughout the world,send their organized gangs to American cities to set up syndicates, traffic in drug’s on a governmental level, have institutionalized corruption in the government, love their brutal dictators,have institutionalized beatings and sodomy in their Armed services, wish for good old Uncle Joes days gone by,...you all have got Russians completely wrong.


7 posted on 08/26/2008 11:18:39 AM PDT by redstateconfidential (A man who lets his friends down, is no man at all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: InABunkerUnderSF

Well I tried.......


8 posted on 08/26/2008 11:19:27 AM PDT by redstateconfidential (A man who lets his friends down, is no man at all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: InABunkerUnderSF
Where are all the people who think Georgia invaded foreign territory and it’s all America’s fault for bombing Serbia?

They're home with their boyfriends, stuffing envelopes for Obama.

9 posted on 08/26/2008 11:19:59 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: InABunkerUnderSF

Pretty clear from the write up here that this incident was provoked by the Russkies and their sympathizers. Not unlike sports where the second hit draws the foul.


10 posted on 08/26/2008 11:20:16 AM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: F-117A
More Russian lies exposed...

L

11 posted on 08/26/2008 11:22:51 AM PDT by Lurker (Islam is an insane death cult. Any other aspects are PR to get them within throat-cutting range.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RKV

I think we’re winning - at least on the FR front.

A week ago responses to my posts were a paragraph or two long. Then it was several paragraphs and a lot of exclamation points. The only response I’ve gotten today that the invasion was based on Russia’s desire to control Caspian oil resources was “Baloney”.

It took a couple of weeks but the truth seems to be sining in.


12 posted on 08/26/2008 11:26:01 AM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF ("Gun Control" is not about the guns. "Illegal Immigration" is not about the immigration)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: InABunkerUnderSF

“sinking”.


13 posted on 08/26/2008 11:27:54 AM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF ("Gun Control" is not about the guns. "Illegal Immigration" is not about the immigration)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: RKV

I am looking for more information. I have had some very contentious disagreements with people on this. I sometimes resort to sarcasm to make an obvious point, and that doesn’t help the discussion.

But usually they say I am simply taking sides on the basis of what the media says, and nothing could be further from the truth.


14 posted on 08/26/2008 11:31:09 AM PDT by rlmorel (If they can call George "Dubya", we can call Barack "Hussein")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: RKV

Georgians need use that skunk gas the Israelis are using. It will clear out the Russians in minutes…like roaches they are. It may take a few days to clean up all the vomit though.


15 posted on 08/26/2008 11:32:21 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RKV
This is the real truth behind the Russian invasion, and it was a setup from the start. The Russians have pulled this ruse many times in their history, and the idea is as old as dirt.

Their press was taken over by Putin for this exact purpose, and to maintain power by denying any possible opposition.

It's about time we saw the truth in print.

16 posted on 08/26/2008 11:47:56 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Soetoro???? Who is Barry Soetoro? Bwahahahahahahahaha!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rlmorel

Might want to follow the link. Totten’s article is detailed and well supported by experts in this area. Turns out Vlad is just following standard Soviet practice.


17 posted on 08/26/2008 11:49:15 AM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Cold Heat

Ok, so what we’ve got to do is follow up on this. Vlad isn’t going to get it until he really hates what we do to him. Out of the G-8, no way on WTO, more NATO nations, find ways to cut his oil income - basically when he looks like the putz he is, then he’ll have to do something to fix the problem, and not before.


18 posted on 08/26/2008 11:52:33 AM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: RKV
Ok, so what we’ve got to do is follow up on this.

I see it as more of a question related to what NOT to do.

What we can not do is roll over to the idea that Russia somehow has a claim to the territory they desire which would total nearly a third of Georgia. They simply must be stopped.....Period...end of statement....

We must escalate in direct proportion to what they do, and maintain the high ground by what ever means we have, to include military force and even the risk of a nuclear exchange.

That's what we must do. There is no other conclusion that is viable. Russia has made their intentions quite clear.

As to these areas of dispute, the land belongs to Georgia, and the people on it are free to leave.

This is the only possible way to put it, without ceding to Russian demands which are the same as they were in the early 1920s when Russia invaded for the first time and when my grandparents fled as refugees to the U.S.

The demands then were similar. A faked protectorate response to aggression by Georgia that never happened to begin with. This is all repeated history to me.

19 posted on 08/26/2008 12:06:39 PM PDT by Cold Heat (Soetoro???? Who is Barry Soetoro? Bwahahahahahahahaha!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Cold Heat

If we blow this, the rest of Eastern Europe is wide open. Time to pick sides.


20 posted on 08/26/2008 12:10:37 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: RKV

Great article exposing the Russkies.

BTW, have you noticed that since the Russia-Georgia conflict began, Iran has been verrryyy quiet?

There are US missiles in the Black Sea, and Nutjob knows his toy rockets are no match...


21 posted on 08/26/2008 12:39:47 PM PDT by G8 Diplomat (The thing about politics is it's never so bad that it can't get worse)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: G8 Diplomat

Yeah, the mullahs could manage to get it from both sides.


22 posted on 08/26/2008 12:43:28 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: RKV

Bump!


23 posted on 08/26/2008 12:55:10 PM PDT by Ben Hecks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet; Tennessean4Bush; AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; ...
Virtually everyone believes Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili foolishly provoked a Russian invasion on August 7, 2008, when he sent troops into the breakaway district of South Ossetia... Georgia didn't start it on August 7, nor on any other date. The South Ossetian militia started it on August 6 when its fighters fired on Georgian peacekeepers and Georgian villages with weapons banned by the agreement hammered out between the two sides in 1994. At the same time, the Russian military sent its invasion force bearing down on Georgia from the north side of the Caucasus Mountains on the Russian side of the border through the Roki tunnel and into Georgia. This happened before Saakashvili sent additional troops to South Ossetia and allegedly started the war.

24 posted on 08/26/2008 1:03:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile hasn't been updated since Friday, May 30, 2008)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RKV

I read the article...seems very well explained in english to me. It was very informative, and I want to say again how much I appreciate your posting it here.


25 posted on 08/26/2008 1:56:21 PM PDT by rlmorel (If they can call George "Dubya", we can call Barack "Hussein")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: rlmorel

Yer welcome. Totten is a champ. Him and Yon are the go-to guys to keep up with world affairs.


26 posted on 08/26/2008 2:09:55 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: RKV
Where did the Ossetians get 120mm guns?
Soviet/Russian tanks use a 125mm gun. Their closes artillery piece is the 122mm. (In NATO, we use 105 and 120mm for tanks, and 105 and 155mm for artillery.)
27 posted on 08/26/2008 3:25:24 PM PDT by rmlew (NYARLATHOTEP / BIDEN'08 . If you don't believe me check out the first's wikipedia page.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rmlew

Can’t say for sure, but theft is one logical option.


28 posted on 08/26/2008 3:26:59 PM PDT by RKV (He who has the guns makes the rules)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Cold Heat

Not only the Russians.

Remember that Hitler and Stalin agreed to divide Poland, and Stalin would grab other countries.

Hitler had dead German prisoners dressed up in Polish uniforms, accused Poland of attack Germany, and therefore Hitler was “forced to respond by counter-attacking”.

Russians still acting like Hitler!


29 posted on 08/26/2008 4:00:01 PM PDT by Vineyard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: RKV

Bush should call for Chechen independence also.


30 posted on 08/26/2008 4:01:58 PM PDT by Always Independent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: RKV; Lasha; Sal; dixiechick2000; cricket; Recovering Ex-hippie; 1rudeboy

This is wonderful, thanks for posting it!!


31 posted on 08/26/2008 4:43:34 PM PDT by MarMema ("..this isn't about the U.S. and Russia, It's about everyone and Russia.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RKV

Good Article.

A lot of this information made its way in bits and pieces into western media but its nice to have it all compiled in one piece.


32 posted on 08/26/2008 5:15:11 PM PDT by Tramonto (Regime change in Russia)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RKV

Yes...I am a big fan of Michael Yon...I don’t always agree 100% with his outlook on some things, but on the other hand, I won’t argue with him because HE IS THERE!


33 posted on 08/26/2008 6:31:51 PM PDT by rlmorel (If they can call George "Dubya", we can call Barack "Hussein")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: RKV
Vladimir Putin has long deplored the breakup of the Soviet Union, describing it as the "greatest geopolitical catastrophe" of the 20th century.


34 posted on 08/26/2008 6:32:42 PM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is not 'free'.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InABunkerUnderSF

The Slavophiles seem to mostly post at night (US time zones). So they’re actually posting from Russia or Serbia OR they’re really vampires. The latter seems highly likely.


35 posted on 08/26/2008 6:57:03 PM PDT by LenS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: RKV
So little has changed. Same ol’ Soviets...I mean, Russians. Where are all of the pro Putin apologists who used to post here telling us how great Putin is, such a good Christian, such a good market economist, etc.? What they were really saying is, “what a good KGB leader comrade Putin is”
36 posted on 08/26/2008 7:59:42 PM PDT by GBA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MarMema; RKV

Great article, with some very pretty pictures!

Thank you for the ping and the post!


37 posted on 08/26/2008 8:22:12 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (Proud supporter of GEORGIA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: RKV

mark for later


38 posted on 08/26/2008 8:27:42 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (Happiness is a choice!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LenS
The Slavophiles seem to mostly post at night...

Would the 'Slavophiles' include the pro Polish and Pro Ukraine posters?

39 posted on 08/26/2008 8:42:42 PM PDT by Tramonto (Regime change in Russia)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: RKV
The Ossetians are claiming that the Georgians killed 2,000 people in Tskhinvali, but when Human Rights Watch got in there a few days ago and talked to the hospital director, he had received 44 bodies. There was nobody left in that town. Plus it's the oldest law of warfare: have your guns in populated areas, and when the enemy responds, show the world your dead women and children.

“Right,” I said. “That goes on a lot where I usually work, in the Middle East.”

A fitting end to a very revealing article. Thanks for posting it.

40 posted on 08/26/2008 10:09:26 PM PDT by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RKV
Previous articles that well support this one.

UAV Shootdown

Interviewee (I): Andrei Illarionov, former economic adviser to PutinI;

Andrei Illarionov Senior Fellow, Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity CATO Institute

I. [] speaking of substance, there is large amount of evidence attesting that the war against Georgia was being prepared for a long time, at least three years, and most intensively, at least, during last four months from April 2008, when at the frontiers along Caucasus Range about 20,000 personnel were moved forward, and approximately 1,200 units of armored vehicle were moved onto the territory of Abkhazia, before the conflict even began, in May, June July; actually speaking, a party which claims to achieve peaceful resolution of the problem does not move in an armada of tanks, which is comparable with the amount used by Soviet Union in the Battle of Kursk [] (one of the largest tank battlefields in the history of the world; happened during WWII).

The West is ideologically divided. Too many of us believe the Russian lies. We believe, in our simplistic way, that tiny Georgia provoked mighty Russia. We haven’t bothered to find out what actually happened. Here are just a few indications that Moscow planned everything in advance: (1) Last month the Russian army practiced invading a small country; (2) Russia recalled its ambassadors to Moscow for a meeting on July 15 to discuss a new foreign policy concept connected to the necessity of “defending” Russian speaking people in unnamed other countries; (3) Moscow’s South Ossetian proxy evacuated ethnic woman and children before beginning an intense bombardment of Georgian villages; (4) The South Ossetian artillery opened fire at 11 pm, while the Georgian artillery didn’t return fire until 12:30 am; (5) Russian mechanized columns were actually moving into Georgia prior to Georgia’s push into South Ossetia on 8 August ; (6) The Russians were mobilizing ships in the Black Sea weeks before the supposed “Georgian aggression”; (7) Georgian internet sites came under intensive Russian attack in advance of military operations. Georgia invasion 'planned since April'

GEORGIA CONFLICT 2008 - Day by Day Documentary website by FReeper Jeff Head

South Ossetia separatists rejects talks with Georgia

Georgia: Academics, Politicians Counter Putin's Ossetia Claims

41 posted on 08/26/2008 10:20:19 PM PDT by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dixiechick2000

ping


42 posted on 08/26/2008 10:24:20 PM PDT by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All; RKV

“Georgia didn’t start it on August 7, nor on any other date. The South Ossetian militia started it on August 6 when its fighters fired on Georgian peacekeepers and Georgian villages with weapons banned by the agreement hammered out between the two sides in 1994. At the same time, the Russian military sent its invasion force bearing down on Georgia from the north side of the Caucasus Mountains on the Russian side of the border through the Roki tunnel and into Georgia.”

KGB tactics are to look for an EXCUSE to invade/attack a country.


43 posted on 08/26/2008 11:22:27 PM PDT by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye

What a great post!

Thank you for so many informative links.


44 posted on 08/27/2008 12:32:49 AM PDT by dixiechick2000 (Proud supporter of GEORGIA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: dixiechick2000
Thank you! but don't miss the main article heading the thread.
It really washes the mud off this story.
45 posted on 08/27/2008 12:38:15 AM PDT by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: TigersEye

Thanks...I did read that article.

You’re right...it washes the mud off.

It’s good to “see” you. ;o)


46 posted on 08/27/2008 2:32:15 AM PDT by dixiechick2000 (Proud supporter of GEORGIA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: MarMema

Bump so I can find this again. I read it through and it was wonderful, but I’m pretty sure I’l need it again.


47 posted on 08/27/2008 4:24:21 PM PDT by Sal (Pyrrhic Pooty just took Russia down to a 3rd class, 3rd world POS country that is dying.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: RKV

BTTT!


48 posted on 08/27/2008 6:28:17 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

I cannot help but be suspicious of any “peacekeepers”

The very word is ominous


49 posted on 09/02/2008 2:27:27 AM PDT by ValerieTexas (Hey Biden! Plaigerize this : SMOOCH!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: ValerieTexas

In the case of Russia, for sure. :’) “Let’s loot the town, bring in South Ossetian death squads, threaten Europe’s gas and oil supplies...”


50 posted on 09/02/2008 9:40:20 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile hasn't been updated since Friday, May 30, 2008)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson