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Military help for Georgia is a 'declaration of war', says Moscow in extraordinary warning to the Wes
thisislondon | Daily Mail ^ | 8/27/08

Posted on 08/28/2008 7:08:45 AM PDT by LibWhacker

Moscow has issued an extraordinary warning to the West that military assistance to Georgia for use against South Ossetia or Abkhazia would be viewed as a "declaration of war" by Russia.

The extreme rhetoric from the Kremlin's envoy to NATO came as President Dmitry Medvedev stressed he will make a military response to US missile defence installations in eastern Europe, sending new shudders across countries whose people were once blighted by the Iron Curtain.

And Moscow also emphasised it was closely monitoring what it claims is a build-up of NATO firepower in the Black Sea. Enlarge Russian President Dmitry Medvedev (right) meets with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin - the 'real architect' of the Georgia conflict - and the Security Council (unseen) in Sochi yesterday

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev (right) meets with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin - the 'real architect' of the Georgia conflict - and the Security Council (unseen) in Sochi yesterday

The incendiary warning on Western military involvement in Georgia - where NATO nations have long played a role in training and equipping the small state - came in an interview with Dmitry Rogozin, a former nationalist politician who is now ambassador to the North Atlantic Alliance.

"If NATO suddenly takes military actions against Abkhazia and South Ossetia, acting solely in support of Tbilisi, this will mean a declaration of war on Russia," he stated.

Yesterday likened the current world crisis to the fevered atmosphere before the start of the First World War.

Rogozin said he did not believe the crisis would descend to war between the West and Russia.

But his use of such intemperate language will be seen as dowsing a fire with petrol. Enlarge The U.S. Coast Guard cutter Dallas at Georgia's Black Sea port of Batumi today, carrying what the U.S. says is humanitarian aid

The U.S. Coast Guard cutter Dallas at Georgia's Black Sea port of Batumi today, carrying what the U.S. says is humanitarian aid

Top military figure Colonel General Leonid Ivashov, president of the Academy of Geopolitical Studies in Moscow, alleged that the US and NATO had been arming Georgia as a dress rehearsal for a future military operation in Iran.

"We are close to a serious conflict - U.S. and NATO preparations on a strategic scale are ongoing. In the operation the West conducted on Georgian soil against Russia - South Ossetians were the victims or hostages of it - we can see a rehearsal for an attack on Iran."

He claimed Washington was fine tuning a new type of warfare and that the threat of an attack on Iran was growing by the day bringing "chaos and instability" in its wake.

With the real architect of the worsening Georgian conflict - prime minister Vladimir Putin - remaining in the background, Medvedev followed up on Rogozin's broadside with a threat to use the Russian military machine to respond to the deployment of the American anti-missile defence system in Poland and the Czech republic.

Poland agreed this month to place ten interceptor missiles on its territory, and Moscow has already hinted it would become a nuclear target for Russia in the event of conflict. Enlarge A South Ossetian separatist fighter prepares to fire his weapon as another raises the South Ossetian and Russian flags, in Tskhinvali, the capital of Georgia's separatist-controlled territory of South Ossetia yesterday

A South Ossetian separatist fighter prepares to fire his weapon as another raises the South Ossetian and Russian flags, in Tskhinvali, the capital of Georgia's separatist-controlled territory of South Ossetia yesterday

"These missiles are close to our borders and constitute a threat to us," Medvedev told Al-Jazeera television. "This will create additional tension and we will have to respond to it in some way, naturally using military means."

The Russian president said that offering NATO membership to Georgia and Ukraine, two former Soviet republics, would only aggravate the situation.

Moscow has consistently expressed its opposition to the U.S. missile shield, saying it threatens its national security.

The U.S. claims the shield is designed to thwart missile attacks by what it calls "rogue states," including Iran.

Meanwhile, Russia - seen by the West as flouting international law - today demanded NATO abide by an obscure agreement signed before the Second World War limiting its warships in the Black Sea. Russian ambassador to NATO Dmitry Rogozin

Russian ambassador to NATO Dmitry Rogozin

"In light of the build-up of NATO naval forces in the Black Sea, our fleet has also taken on the task of monitoring their activities," said hawkish deputy head of Russia's general staff, Anatoly Nogovitsyn.

The Montreux Convention, as it is called, sets a weight restriction of 45,000 tonnes on the number of warships that countries outside the Black Sea region can deploy in the basin.

"Can NATO indefinitely build up its forces and means there? It turns out it cannot," said Nogovitsyn.

NATO has said it is undertaking pre-arranged exercises in the Black Sea involving US, German, Spanish and Polish ships. Two other US warships sailed to Georgian waters with humanitarian aid.

Georgia is poised to sever diplomatic relations with Russia, or reduce them to a bare minimum.

"We will drastically cut our diplomatic ties with Russia," said a top official.

President Mikhail Saakashvili said he was frightened to leave Georgia to attend the EU summit on the crisis.

"If I leave Georgia, the Russians will close our airspace and prevent me from returning home," he said.

Russia sought Chinese backing for its action - but the Communist regime in Beijing appeared reluctant to offer support, instead issuing a statement saying it was "concerned" about recent developments.

NATO called for Russia to reverse its decision on recognition for the two enclaves, both Georgian under international law.

But the new 'president' of South Ossetia, Eduard Kokoyty, called for Russian military bases on his territory.

French foreign minister Bernard Kouchner warned today that an marauding Russian bear could trample over other ex-Soviet states.

"That is very dangerous," he said, pointing at Ukraine and Moldova.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: georgia; russia; war; warning

1 posted on 08/28/2008 7:08:45 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker

Russian leadership seems to have gone mad.


2 posted on 08/28/2008 7:10:22 AM PDT by WorkerbeeCitizen (Seinfeld was a show about nothing - so is Obama.)
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To: WorkerbeeCitizen
"Russian leadership seems to have gone mad."

Guess someone called him pooty poot once too often.

3 posted on 08/28/2008 7:12:03 AM PDT by Enterprise (Let all Democrats have a half vote. They deserve it!)
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To: LibWhacker

It’s tempting to think Russia is acting like a rabid dog. Paranoia on a national scale. Amazing.


4 posted on 08/28/2008 7:14:26 AM PDT by GoDuke
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To: LibWhacker

When does the ballon go up?


5 posted on 08/28/2008 7:15:50 AM PDT by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: LibWhacker
So country X supplying country Y with arms to put down an insurrection in country Y is an act of war against country Z?

Nazi Russia continues to rely on the Hitler playbook.

6 posted on 08/28/2008 7:15:56 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: metesky

It already happened back in the early 80s. There were 99 of them. Luftballoons.


7 posted on 08/28/2008 7:18:51 AM PDT by edpc (@#&!*$)
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To: WorkerbeeCitizen

“Russian leadership seems to have gone mad.”

Maybe they just never changed in the 90’s.


8 posted on 08/28/2008 7:20:10 AM PDT by HereInTheHeartland ("We have to drain the swamp" George Bush, September 2001)
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To: WorkerbeeCitizen

The Russians have been so over-the-top in their war rhetoric these last couple weeks that one can’t help but consider the possibility that it’s all designed to influence the U.S. election. .....in McCain’s favor, presumably.


9 posted on 08/28/2008 7:21:07 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: metesky

Hopefully not until I have relocated my family far from L.A. and to place with a nice big basement.


10 posted on 08/28/2008 7:22:29 AM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: Mr. Mojo
.....in McCain’s favor, presumably.

That don't make any sense.

11 posted on 08/28/2008 7:22:54 AM PDT by WorkerbeeCitizen (Seinfeld was a show about nothing - so is Obama.)
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To: WorkerbeeCitizen

If the U.S. electorte’s mind is focused on national security issues it heavily favors McCain, obviously. WHY the Russians would prefer McCain is anyone’s guess.


12 posted on 08/28/2008 7:25:23 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: LibWhacker

And just what is the current state of the Russian military — conventional arms in particular? Can’t be all that great.

Bring it on and make my day, Vlad?

Just a thought...


13 posted on 08/28/2008 7:31:47 AM PDT by allen08gop (Too lazy to change my screen name...)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Russia is trying to prevent U.S. action in Iran, by creating another front.


14 posted on 08/28/2008 7:34:07 AM PDT by Tax Government (Let the 100-year boycott of Russia begin now.)
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To: allen08gop

Nuclear Subs. They have a real Military.


15 posted on 08/28/2008 7:34:26 AM PDT by BGHater (Democracy is the road to socialism.)
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To: Tax Government
Of course. But that doesn't explain their crazed war rhetoric -- "U.S. ABMs in Poland will be met with military action."....."Military help for Georgia is a 'declaration of war'"....."we are not afraid of a new Cold War."...etc.

This type of rhetoric is unnecessary if the Russians' sole purpose was to open another front to prevent U.S. action in Iran.

16 posted on 08/28/2008 7:42:17 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: allen08gop

Thats the spirit! Just don’t forget to duck and cover...


17 posted on 08/28/2008 7:44:00 AM PDT by Eyes Unclouded (We won't ever free our guns but be sure we'll let them triggers go....)
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To: LibWhacker

The old Commies were right. Politics is like fighting with bayonets. When you strike a soft spot, push forward. When you strike steel, pull back. Putin knows this all too well.


18 posted on 08/28/2008 7:45:46 AM PDT by T. Rustin Noone (Angels want to wear my red shoes...)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Rove you magnificent bastard.


19 posted on 08/28/2008 7:55:45 AM PDT by WorkerbeeCitizen (Seinfeld was a show about nothing - so is Obama.)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Putin said the U.S. started it to help McCain:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/28/russia.georgia.cold.war/?iref=mpstoryview


20 posted on 08/28/2008 8:00:11 AM PDT by Chad_the_Impaler
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To: LibWhacker
Sorry Russia, YOU declared war on ALL freedom loving people by INVADING Georgia. "In 5 minutes we begin bombing." (So STFU Putin, our bombs are just as big as yours.)
21 posted on 08/28/2008 8:00:24 AM PDT by Chgogal (Voting "Present" 130 times might be a sign of a smart politician. It is not a sign of a good leader.)
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To: WorkerbeeCitizen

Russia miscalculated. Happens in all wars. Tzu once said that before a war, the two opposing sides think they know what the other side is doing or thinking, but once the war starts they will find out that they really do not know. Russia thought NATO/EU will cower, former Soviet Republics and Eastern Europe will not condemn them and most important, China the other anti US nation will back them. Guess what, all pre war notions are slowly being invalidated. The longer Russia remains in Georgia, the worst for Russia because the excuse of protecting ethnic Russians no longer hold water. In a multipolar world, China would not mind if US and Russia gets into another Cold War because such a conflict will suck resources from the opposing nations while China preserves hers as she builds up her economic power and influence in Far East Asia. I think Russia is slowly realizing this. The Russians need to remember that China is her neighbor while the US happens to be in the neighborhood.


22 posted on 08/28/2008 8:07:26 AM PDT by Fee
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To: Mr. Mojo

I was thinking the same thing from the start. It is almost like play to McCain. The ONLY reason I could see Russia playing to McCain is they are afraid of Obama Bin Biden.


23 posted on 08/28/2008 8:20:25 AM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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To: BGHater
Nuke subs are a threat to them and us. I wonder how effective those Russian assets really are?

The good news is that despite their rhetoric, they are not like Osama or Iran. They get the idea of mutually assured destruction. So, the nukes are less of a threat from them.

Conventionally speaking, how are we situated for a massive air strike to take out a good portion of their military assets in the Georgian region?

Or what other non-nuke assets can we bring to bear to back up the original premise of, ”Bring it on, Vlad?”

24 posted on 08/28/2008 8:25:43 AM PDT by allen08gop (Too lazy to change my screen name...)
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To: allen08gop
Why would they need to attack us?

We are being invaded from Illegal Foreign Nationals. We don't have a Energy policy. We are gonna ship our investments and jobs overseas when we raises taxes. Our Gov’t is bloated and ineffective.

We are doing a pretty good job of self destructing on our own.

25 posted on 08/28/2008 8:31:22 AM PDT by BGHater (Democracy is the road to socialism.)
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To: LibWhacker

Seems to me that it’s time to have the Navy take back the Port of Poti, clearly on Georgian soil, and the key ingredient for the Georgian economy.

And maybe kick a little ass at the same time.


26 posted on 08/28/2008 8:36:17 AM PDT by aShepard (Loose lips Sink ships)
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To: aShepard

In a fight with the U.S., Russia’s military would resemble a shooting star - short, bright and lasting about two seconds.


27 posted on 08/28/2008 8:40:47 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic ("And how can this be? For I am the Kwisatz Haderach! " - Barack Obama)
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To: LibWhacker

Horrid, if not downright dangerous, reporting.

This is the headline: “Military help for Georgia is a ‘declaration of war’, says Moscow in extraordinary warning to the West”

This is what was actually said:

“If NATO suddenly takes military actions against Abkhazia and South Ossetia, acting solely in support of Tbilisi, this will mean a declaration of war on Russia,” he stated.

Helping Georgia militarily (training, equipment, etc) isn’t the same thing at all as a unilateral NATO action to retake South Ossetia.


28 posted on 08/28/2008 8:43:13 AM PDT by Terabitten (Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets - E-Frat '94. Unity and Pride!)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Russia main goal is to reclaim lost Soviet territory by force. However, it would like to distract America to reduce its involvement. Both the election and problems in Iran provide distractions. If necessary, Russia will skip the distraction, and provide its own excuse by exaggerating events in Georgia or elsewhere.

Conclusion: Russia has already declared [cold] war, and we must do the same. The only difference between cold and hot is that shots are not being fired with any regularity.

Another motivation for Russia’s action now, I assert, is that Russia believes it can deliver a near-knockout blow to our computing infrastructure at will. I refer to the millions of PCs in private the government hands, on which our economy and readiness depend. Much of our anti-virus software comes from Russia. I speculate, but I believe accurately, that Russia can bring down a large percentage of our computers whenever it chooses, damage or destroy data, and steal their information. We very much need to evaluate and remove this risk.


29 posted on 08/28/2008 8:43:59 AM PDT by Tax Government (Let the 100-year boycott of Russia begin now.)
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To: Mr. Mojo
If the U.S. electorte’s mind is focused on national security issues it heavily favors McCain, obviously. WHY the Russians would prefer McCain is anyone’s guess.

Because the Russians have their own problems with Islamofascists. Remember Beslan?

30 posted on 08/28/2008 8:45:10 AM PDT by Terabitten (Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets - E-Frat '94. Unity and Pride!)
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To: Tax Government
Much of our anti-virus software comes from Russia.

Huh? Norton and McAfee are Russian?

31 posted on 08/28/2008 8:47:58 AM PDT by Terabitten (Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets - E-Frat '94. Unity and Pride!)
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To: Tax Government

Rhetorical question:

Millions of PCs run anti-virus software from Russian companies. What if those companies were prevented from releasing a fix for a virus created by the Russian government?


32 posted on 08/28/2008 8:51:22 AM PDT by Tax Government (Let the 100-year boycott of Russia begin now.)
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To: Mr. Mojo
WHY the Russians would prefer McCain is anyone’s guess.

Wasn't there a movie about that?

Actually two. One with Frank Sinatra, Laurence Harvey, Angela Lansbury, and Janet Leigh from 1962. One with Denzel Washington, Liev Schreiber, and Meryl Streep from 2004.

33 posted on 08/28/2008 9:10:17 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: LibWhacker

bookmark


34 posted on 08/28/2008 9:11:52 AM PDT by Lijahsbubbe (c)
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To: BenLurkin
Hopefully not until I have relocated my family far from L.A. and to place with a nice big basement.

Best rush your preparations to completion.

35 posted on 08/28/2008 9:14:15 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Fee
Russia thought NATO/EU will cower, former Soviet Republics and Eastern Europe will not condemn them and most important, China the other anti US nation will back them. Guess what, all pre war notions are slowly being invalidated.

Russia wins backing from China

It appears that the Chinese are backing the Russians in the matter.

36 posted on 08/28/2008 9:17:17 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Tax Government
Russia is trying to prevent U.S. action in Iran, by creating another front.

BINGO!

It was recently admitte bty the IAEA that IRan had the designs for a warhead...that was the last straw...

Shortly after that we gave Israel a green light on Iran....and sent the largest flotilla since the invasion of Iraq into the gulf along with a battleship (to be used to keep the Straits open). Iran was going down. It wouldn't surprise me to find out the warhead design is of Russian origin.


37 posted on 08/28/2008 9:22:50 AM PDT by Khepri (Georgia is a Soros operation.)
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To: BGHater
Uh, Okay.

Getting back to the point about their military readiness and their threats of military action against our assets...

I wonder about what is really going on behind the scenes in this whole thing. What is Bush really saying to Putin on the hotline?

Russians understand force and power — shoved right in their face. Nixon knew they respect that. may not like it, but they respect it.

I hope the conversation is long those lines or we are in for a much bigger problem down the road.

38 posted on 08/28/2008 9:23:10 AM PDT by allen08gop (Too lazy to change my screen name...)
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To: LibWhacker

Sounds clear to me.

Back to that Cuba situation...


39 posted on 08/28/2008 9:24:26 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: aShepard; Jeff Head
Seems to me that it’s time to have the Navy take back the Port of Poti, clearly on Georgian soil, and the key ingredient for the Georgian economy

Has the Mount Whitney transited the Turkish straits yet?

40 posted on 08/28/2008 9:38:50 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Terabitten
Huh? Norton and McAfee are Russian?

I have no reason to think so. However, at least two major anti-virus companies are based in Russia. There may be more than that. Rather than have me build what I think is the comprehensive list, U.S. legislation should require the origin of all commercial software be disclosed on packaging and advertising. The key ideas are: 1) who has custody of the sources; 2) where does development occur; 3) where is the product constructed from sources (compiled, linked, and made into an installer). If these locales are disclosed, and companies required to certify, for example, that software sources are U.S. based, and the product was built in the U.S., then a big vulnerability will have been partially addressed. Also, customers will have the ability to choose whether to buy software with ANY Russian content. (I think the answer to that question in many cases will be NO, NEVER.)

41 posted on 08/28/2008 10:24:23 AM PDT by Tax Government (Let the 100-year boycott of Russia begin now.)
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To: El Gato

You need to read the SCO statement carefully. The SCO did not condemn Russia but at the same time did not encourage Russia. Russia was hoping for more solid support, but they did not get any. Simply put, China does not have a dog in the fight over Georgia. Furthermore China would not mind seeing Russia and US/EU spend resources fighing each other while she builds up her own economic (thus military) power unscathed in any wars or fights. Before China embarked on free markets in the late 1970’s, they sent a group of scholars to study how the US achieved world power status starting in the late 19th Century to modern times. The conclusion they drew was that the US first developed economic power and during that period kept out of major international conflicts. China will adhere to that policy as long as Taiwan does not declare independence and no nation physically occupy the Spratley Islands. China’s long term goal is to achieve economic immenence (backed by a modern military a modern economy can buy) in the Far East and use finance to dominate her neighbors. She has already tempered US attitude towards her with her financial clout as we struggle with our bank failures, high government debt and etc. China exercises her power behind the scene and rarely in public, and many US citizens are unaware of it. Do you know how many US companies who rely on exports to Far East lobby Congress on China’s behalf?? Why do you think GWB was forced to attend the Bejing Olympics despite Tibet???? Have you ever considered that it happened when our banks were in deep problems and needed foreign cash, and our government needed buyers of US T Bills to finance our guarantees to these failing banks??? There is an old saying about Russia, US and China style of exercising power and dominance. Russia plays chess (manuever and attack), US plays Monopoly (invest and control) and China plays Go (surround and dominate).


42 posted on 08/28/2008 10:51:45 AM PDT by Fee
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To: Mr. Mojo

neo-eurasianism


43 posted on 08/28/2008 2:59:13 PM PDT by MarMema ("..this isn't about the U.S. and Russia, It's about everyone and Russia.")
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To: Fee
While China did not condone, they also did not condemn, Russia's actions. They are somewhat in the position that the US was in prior to WW-II. Except that they are a bit more friendly, and tied to, the aggressors than we were. Or perhaps more like the Soviets, before Hitler got a bad case of the stupids and attacked them *before* he'd digested Britain.

If push comes to shove, they will support Russia, if only as some sort of Quid Pro Quo, to gain access to Siberian resources.

In that way China is a bit like Japan was, resource poor. They do have plenty of coal, but are sort on oil and "living room", and many other important materials.

44 posted on 08/28/2008 3:02:10 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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