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Why in God's name are Ramos and Compean still in prison?!
28 August 2008 | djsherin

Posted on 08/28/2008 1:44:28 PM PDT by djsherin

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1 posted on 08/28/2008 1:44:29 PM PDT by djsherin
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To: djsherin

The big problem I have with this situation is that our government chose to punish our own people while the true criminal got off free.


2 posted on 08/28/2008 1:46:37 PM PDT by bestintxas (It's great in Texas)
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To: djsherin
This is how George Bush gets even with the uppity folks who shouted down his amnesty scheme. He makes us watch while these men are imprisoned unjustly. "See what happens when you want the law enforced?"
3 posted on 08/28/2008 1:48:48 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: djsherin
These men literally did nothing wrong

If so, their decision to cover up what they did was an interesting choice.

4 posted on 08/28/2008 1:49:46 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: djsherin

Here’s the deal. Compean is in prison because he wouldn’t make a good (unarmed) security guard in a parking garage. Ramos is in prison because he stuck-up for Compean. Sad, really.


5 posted on 08/28/2008 1:49:49 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: bestintxas

They rot in prison because George W. Bush is a turd who refuses to do the right thing.


6 posted on 08/28/2008 1:50:03 PM PDT by GunsareOK
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To: djsherin

Please sign petition at Grassfire.org

also President Bush

comments@whitehouse.gov
202-456-1111


7 posted on 08/28/2008 1:50:09 PM PDT by mouse1
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To: djsherin

Because George Bush is President and the prosecutor Sutton is a good ol boy Texan and friend of Bush.

I’m so damn sick of Texans covering for each other. They brag about it too.


8 posted on 08/28/2008 1:51:08 PM PDT by Finalapproach29er (Democrats still want to Impeach Pres. Bush and/or VP Cheney; keep your eye on these House hearings.)
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To: wideawake

I’m confused about this. What did they cover up? I’ve read that they’ve covered things up, but not WHAT they covered up.


9 posted on 08/28/2008 1:52:19 PM PDT by djsherin
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To: djsherin

Well, because we had a US prosecutor who wrongfully prosecuted them (with the blessings of our President) and because Bush wants them to remain in jail.


10 posted on 08/28/2008 1:53:53 PM PDT by MBB1984
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To: djsherin

They are still there because it would greatly piss off Bush’s Mexican friends, on BOTH sides of the border, if they were to be pardoned.


11 posted on 08/28/2008 1:56:21 PM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: djsherin; Duncan Hunter

..one of the real dark spots in GWB’s presidency is his loyalty to incompetent friends—Johnny Sutton is one...


12 posted on 08/28/2008 1:56:25 PM PDT by WalterSkinner ( In Memory of My Father--WWII Vet and Patriot 1926-2007)
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To: djsherin
What did they cover up?

If you are a border agent and you discharge your weapon, you are required to file a full report describing the circumstances.

Compean fired a weapon at an unarmed criminal who was fleeing from him and failed to report it - even going so far as to tamper with the physical evidence at the scene in order to obscure what had taken place.

He failed to file the report and tampered with the evidence precisely because he knew that what he had done was against the law.

Ramos assisted in the coverup and then lied in an official inquiry along with Compean in order to cover up the circumstances of what had occurred.

13 posted on 08/28/2008 2:00:36 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: wideawake

That you Johnny?


14 posted on 08/28/2008 2:04:04 PM PDT by Domandred (McCain's 'R' is a typo that has never been corrected)
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To: djsherin

I consider Ramos & Compean to be political prisoners. This is shameful!


15 posted on 08/28/2008 2:04:06 PM PDT by alice_in_bubbaland (Obamamaniacs idiot's one and all !)
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To: MBB1984
Yes, it's all one vast conspiracy against The One - ahem, I mean Jose Compean.
16 posted on 08/28/2008 2:05:59 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: djsherin
Thank you, Jorge Bush, great job.

Refugees only killing the citizens Americans won't kill.

17 posted on 08/28/2008 2:06:06 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (John McCain, the Manchurian Candidate.)
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To: djsherin
'Cause Bush and Johnny "the Mike Nifong of Texas" Sutton are close pals and Bush is covering for Sutton.

What exactly Bush is waiting for to pardon these two men is beyond me. I guess they were doing their job keeping illegal aliens from Mexico out of America too well for his liking.

There is still time for Bush to do the right thing. He doesn't leave office until January 20, 2009.

18 posted on 08/28/2008 2:06:40 PM PDT by Night Conservative (Sarah Palin for McCain's running mate.)
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To: Domandred
That you Johnny?

Translation: "I have no coherent counterarguments to offer, so I'll just use what I consider to be an epithet instead."

That's about par for the course among Compean supporters.

19 posted on 08/28/2008 2:08:20 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: djsherin

Ask Bush?

Seriously, despite claims by elements of talk radio I’m am not convinced of their being pure-as-driven-snow. There are parts of the case that didn’t add up in their favor.


20 posted on 08/28/2008 2:09:58 PM PDT by newzjunkey (YES on CA PROP 4. (Family notification for underage abortions))
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To: Finalapproach29er
I’m so damn sick of Texans covering for each other.

Among the worst public sins of this president.

21 posted on 08/28/2008 2:11:30 PM PDT by newzjunkey (YES on CA PROP 4. (Family notification for underage abortions))
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To: wideawake
The "conspiracy" thing is getting a little long-in-the-tooth. It might have been believable (if one was so inclined) up to the point where the jury returned its verdict, but now Judges Jolly, Higginbotham, and Prado of the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals must be considered "in" on it.

And if this case goes to the Supreme Court, well, just imagine what comes next if some or all of the convictions are upheld.

22 posted on 08/28/2008 2:11:50 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
The fact is, had Ramos and Compean been intelligent and done things by the book, Aldrete-Davila would be in prison right now and they would be free.

But they screwed up disastrously and then decided to compound it by lying and tampering with evidence.

23 posted on 08/28/2008 2:16:52 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: djsherin

Excuse me, but they attempted to kill the criminal and then hide evidence, that is a crime. We cannot stand by and advocate our law officers whether they are police or border patrol to break the laws. Come on, they got caught breaking the law.


24 posted on 08/28/2008 2:17:26 PM PDT by Ferndina
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To: djsherin
I’m confused about this. What did they cover up? I’ve read that they’ve covered things up, but not WHAT they covered up.

No one that does their job and enforces the law should be convicted solely on the statements of a foreign national drug runner.

I'm confused that you are confused. If you don't know what exactly they covered-up, then how do you know they were convicted "solely" on the statements of the drug-runner?

25 posted on 08/28/2008 2:20:03 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: djsherin

New tag line. Thanks.


26 posted on 08/28/2008 2:20:45 PM PDT by arthurus (Why in God's name are Ramos and Compean still in prison?!)
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To: Ferndina
Try asking one of their supporters if it's morally OK to tamper with evidence or if it's legally OK to tamper with evidence.

You will never get a straight, yes or no, answer.

27 posted on 08/28/2008 2:20:56 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: 1rudeboy

That’s what I’ve read, heard, and seen. If you have articles about this I’d be happy to see them. I read that they were sloppy after words and that supervisors heard the shots so there wasn’t a need to file a report (that was my understanding anyway).


28 posted on 08/28/2008 2:24:13 PM PDT by djsherin
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To: Ferndina

I agree with you, but I haven’t seen WHAT evidence they tampered with. I read that they picked up there bullet casings; that Compean filed a report; that Ramos did not file a report; and that supervisors were on scene shortly after. If you’ve got better sources then I’d be happy to change my opinion.


29 posted on 08/28/2008 2:27:52 PM PDT by djsherin
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To: djsherin
It'd probably be best to sit down for an evening and read the 5th Circuit opinion here (.pdf file).

It'll allow you to flesh-out the legitimate questions/misgivings you have about this case, and discard the ones without merit.

30 posted on 08/28/2008 2:29:47 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: djsherin

Message from the establishment to the Border Patrol. We want to know what’s happening at the boarder, but we don’t want you to do anything about it...or else!


31 posted on 08/28/2008 2:30:19 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: djsherin
They didn't report firing shots. They argued later that everyone knew it happened, so they shouldn't have needed to do so.

Compean chose not to file a complaint against the suspect which made people question if he was ever really threatened.

Of course they didn't know the identity of the suspect, and he had fled back into Mexico, so they had little reason to believe that a complaint would be anything but worthless paperwork.

Compean collected some of his brass, and has another agent go look for the rest and dispose of it.

This is the one thing that is really hard to explain away and would seem to indicate a cover-up.

I suspect that's what got them convicted by the jury.

Ramos, who actually fired the shot that hit the suspect came on the scene after Compean had already started firing, and didn't try and collect any of his brass. He however didn't report the incident.

Failing to report the incident is what got the DOJ investigating the incident once they got a complaint by the suspect that he had been shot without justification. They had a suspect who had been shot with no report of any agents firing shots. Can't really blame them for investigating, but the did seem more than a little overzealous after they decided to investigate.

Compean and Ramos did do things wrong despite what the author of the article claims. However, if they had reported the incident there wouldn't have been a case to prosecute.

Their failure to report the incident and preserve the scene could have been handled through administrative action rather than criminal prosecution, but it did seem like Compean covered up what had happened...

If they had simply reported the shooting and filed a report, they would have never been prosecuted, even if the shooting wasn't justified because it would have been the the suspect's word against theirs.

It was because of the evidence of a cover-up that they were able to be prosecuted, because that destroyed their credibility.

32 posted on 08/28/2008 2:30:31 PM PDT by untrained skeptic
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To: Finalapproach29er
Because George Bush is President and the prosecutor Sutton is a good ol boy Texan and friend of Bush.

Two things stand out about this case.

One thing for sure is they were trying to make an example of some kind because the charge that put them in jail for such a long time was connected to them being in possession of a gun when they committed the crime, a charge which has never before or since been used against law enforcement officials while on duty. The law is meant to provide more severe punishments for crimes like bank robberies, etc where guns are used, not for cases like this.

The second point is that noone has a chance against the Feds in court, so if you do not take their plea bargain they will hammer you so bad you will wish you were never born. If you are ever charged at the Federal level, either take the plea or split the country, because you have no prayer in the courtroom.
33 posted on 08/28/2008 2:31:52 PM PDT by microgood
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To: djsherin
"If you've got better sources...."

Read the trial transcripts

34 posted on 08/28/2008 2:32:24 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: bestintxas

There is NO excuse to not have our borders sealed except someone doesn’t want it done..could money be the cause?
God help them


35 posted on 08/28/2008 2:32:33 PM PDT by aeonspromise
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To: untrained skeptic

Okay, I didn’t realize what a big deal it was to have the incident reported. I heard that supervisors were on scene almost immediately and that they therefore didn’t have to file a report. But why would picking up the brass be an issue? They know he fired shots. Is it just a crime scene thing?


36 posted on 08/28/2008 2:34:24 PM PDT by djsherin
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To: wideawake
Try asking one of their supporters if it's morally OK to tamper with evidence or if it's legally OK to tamper with evidence.

Just be sure that the question applies only to the defendant and not to the prosecution.

Then just for fun, ask if the whole truth allows the omission of any part of the truth. Then make the assertion that LAW equals JUSTICE.

37 posted on 08/28/2008 2:35:01 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (John McCain, the Manchurian Candidate.)
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To: wideawake

“Compean fired a weapon at an unarmed criminal who was fleeing from him and failed to report it - even going so far as to tamper with the physical evidence at the scene in order to obscure what had taken place.

He failed to file the report and tampered with the evidence precisely because he knew that what he had done was against the law.

Ramos assisted in the coverup and then lied in an official inquiry along with Compean in order to cover up the circumstances of what had occurred.”

That is wrong wrong wrong.


38 posted on 08/28/2008 2:35:42 PM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
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To: djsherin
Why in God's name are Ramos and Compean still in prison?!

Because they wounded one of "God's Children", and that cannot be allowed.

39 posted on 08/28/2008 2:38:25 PM PDT by mountainbunny
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To: wideawake
The fact is, had Ramos and Compean been intelligent and done things by the book, Aldrete-Davila would be in prison right now and they would be free.

But they screwed up disastrously and then decided to compound it by lying and tampering with evidence

I have not heard any of this. Could you tell me where to find this information? Always willing to learn another side of things if one exists. Thank you.

40 posted on 08/28/2008 2:42:20 PM PDT by mountainbunny
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To: djsherin
Bush's unnatural desire to please the Mexican government.
41 posted on 08/28/2008 2:43:02 PM PDT by RJL
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To: GunsareOK

RIGHT. Tiny, tiny cajones made of swiss cheese.


42 posted on 08/28/2008 2:44:49 PM PDT by GoldenPup
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To: wideawake
He failed to file the report and tampered with the evidence precisely because he knew that what he had done was against the law.

Or because he just didn't want to do the paperwork. The seemed to be a bit lax in following regulations there. There really wasn't any evidence they knew they had hit the suspect. They saw him climb into a car on the Mexican side that picked him up.

The suspect's testimony was also not very consistent, and parts of it weren't even close to believable.

Ramos assisted in the coverup and then lied in an official inquiry along with Compean in order to cover up the circumstances of what had occurred.

He didn't report discharging his weapon. I don't remember evidence of him covering up the incident beyond that, nor do I remember hearing that he lied during the inquiry.

I do kind of remember hearing that Compean's statements in the inquiry weren't perfectly consistent.

Neither the agents, nor the suspect ended up with much credibility. The suspect said he didn't have a gun or anything in his hand that could have been mistaken for a gun. Compean said he saw a gun, but the jury obviously didn't believe him because he had destroyed his own credibility. However, I really don't understand how they could have believed the suspect either, so I don't understand how the case was proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

Of course the suspect was also allowed to lie on the stand and make it sound like he had innocently gotten caught up in this one drug delivery because he desperately needed the money, but that the was an innocent, law abiding person other than that.

They already had evidence that he had taken in another load at the time of the trial, but the jury was not allowed to hear about that. At least he wasn't granted immunity for that other incident and was convicted. However, his sentence was only 57 months.

43 posted on 08/28/2008 2:46:21 PM PDT by untrained skeptic
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To: wideawake
Compean fired a weapon at an unarmed criminal who was fleeing from him and failed to report it.

There are only three people in this world who know if he was unarmed, two former Border Patrol Agents and one convicted drug smuggler.

44 posted on 08/28/2008 2:46:24 PM PDT by usurper (Spelling or grammatical errors in this post can be attributed to the LA City School System)
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To: Mamzelle
This is how George Bush gets even with the uppity folks who shouted down his amnesty scheme. He makes us watch while these men are imprisoned unjustly. "See what happens when you want the law enforced?"

Has McCain weighed in on Ramos/Compean?

45 posted on 08/28/2008 2:49:07 PM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: wideawake
Compean fired a weapon at an unarmed criminal

We have only the involved criminal's word on this.

The same criminal that Sutton's office presented to the jury as a one time smuggler just trying to get money for an operation for his sick mother, all the while Sutton knew that it was a lie.

46 posted on 08/28/2008 2:49:07 PM PDT by RJL
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To: Navy Patriot

“Thank you, Jorge Bush, great job.”

Thankfully both Barrack Obama and John McCain will work tirelessly to secure the border and clean up the miss. [/sarc]


47 posted on 08/28/2008 2:49:28 PM PDT by DemonDeac
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To: newzjunkey
Seriously, despite claims by elements of talk radio I’m am not convinced of their being pure-as-driven-snow. There are parts of the case that didn’t add up in their favor.

So at least how about giving them a real trial, without testimony from Bush's paid stable of drug runner buddies?

48 posted on 08/28/2008 2:51:52 PM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: wideawake
But they screwed up disastrously and then decided to compound it by lying and tampering with evidence.

You are exactly right. They paid a heavy price for being lazy and not wanting to simply write a memo. Although I still think that charging them with possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony (which carried the mandatory 10 year sentence) was underhanded and unethical.

49 posted on 08/28/2008 2:52:59 PM PDT by usurper (Spelling or grammatical errors in this post can be attributed to the LA City School System)
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To: djsherin
They are in prison for doing their jobs.

Their job description included covering up evidence of their shooting? Letting a drug smuggler escape?

50 posted on 08/28/2008 2:56:21 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Half the time it could seem funny, the other half's just too sad.)
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